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Just watched the replay. Some random observations/comments: Brisbane are pretty good team, with some genuine guns - the future looks pretty bright for lions fans Cameron was a terrific get for them Some truly baffling umpiring decisions and non decisions - how Gawn didn't get a free in the 3rd (or maybe 4th?) after Martin threw him to the ground from a throw in is anybody's guess and ridiculous that Fristsch didn't get a fifty - he was wrestled to the ground after clearly taking a mark. The free for holding against Lewis in the middle of the ground was ridiculous, made more so when on a number of occasions players were given an eternity to get rid of the ball Jetta has had tough couple of weeks, though this week his cause wasn't helped by some tough borderline umpiring decisions Lever was ok, made some smart decisions and has great hands. Did make a couple of bad errors that cost us goals at key times (his failure to 'kill' the ball when one of three players up against Walker and then not keeping the ball in front of him allowing Hipwood to goal near the end of the game). I found it curious that Roos was quick to point out these errors and also had made a couple of other mild criticisms of Lever in the call - it made me wonder if he was keen on him as Goody hibberd was back to his AA best and i think our most influential player (with apologies to Jeffy who was awesome) My take on the Lions come back: Mistake one - not slowing things down. Brendan Speed said at some point in the third we had started to play tempo football, which i though strange because we hadn't. Just as he said Jones (as pointed out by someone above - a good get) elected to go long down the line from hb to a contest rather than going back and chipping it round to slow things down (though to be fair on the tv i you couldn't see if there was spare player - but if a player worked hard enough there should have been). Fom the contest they won the ball and took it the length of the ground to score. Mistake two - near the end of the third oliver missed a set shot and jetta a snapped goal from 20 metres. At the start of the last, after a great build up Hogan missed everything from a set shot from 35. Cameron meanwhile kicked truly twice from 40 metre set shots in that same period. We get those goals and momentum is stopped. Also not sure what happened with Zorko - he was instrumental in getting Lions back into the game and didn't appear to be tagged in the second half However after they leveled up we got the goals needed, with Jeffy and Hoges standing up when required with clutch goals - a terrific sign and we will be able to draw on that all season Bugg and Melksham missed some very gettable goals that would have mad things harder for lions Brendan Speed is a really good commentator Fritsch is the real deal. A wonderful mark, reads the flight really well, is brave and for his size is hard to beat in the air. On the ground picks up the ball beautifully and to round things out is an excellent kick with a sound technique. I love left footers so all in all a top package Hogan look really switched on, body language and temperament is good and seem in a good place. However he seems to run under the ball a fair bit still Gawn look in ripping shape and is better now when the ball is on the ground Lewis made some errors but was terrific in the second half Oliver is already close to the best mid fielder i have seen at the dees in my 40 odd years of watching us. Big call i know but he is just so good. Of course our habit of giving up bags of goals in short periods of time is an issue but a game still has to be considered in totality. And in the end we won by 26 points. One of the best measures of the likely outcome of a match is the line bet as it is a function of bookies, who do not like losing, setting the line and then thousands of people making a decision on the likely outcome, moving the line up and down. Money talks. The line was 18 points and in the end we easily covered it.

On Melksham: a few have said be's been poor, however all three of the behinds he kicked were those snatch-and-deliver kicks he does before you can blink. If he'd kicked those goals we'd all have voted for him in the PotY thread. I've really warmed to him as a player. As a half forward, he creates opportunities that others can't because of the speed in which he can dispose of the ball once he gets it. He is getting it, so I think he's not too far off stitching it together and delivering an outstanding game.

People are missing the importance of Jack in Port's structure yesterday! Having him forward enabled Hinkley to make the match winning move of Dixon to ruck the 2nd half, without leaving a gaping hole in forward 50. He also took a key defender which enabled a young kid (Todd Marshall) to kick 3 goals. And, Jack's hand pass to Boake for his first goal helped spark the turnaround to win the game. I'm sure people will get a lot of laughs this year from looking at Jack's stats and ridiculing him. But that just shows they probably haven't watched the game and don't understand the role Hinkley is asking of him. TBH, I just don't get the lingering antipathy towards him. We pushed him out. He is gone. You don't need to wish him well. But this petty ridicule just makes posters look mean spirited.

“What are you thinking, Leigh?” ”About the game?” Nah, about how the [censored] pyramids were built...

Agreed. I know it's a small sample size, but after two rounds we've won 6 of the 8 quarters we have played. That's level with both Port and the Giants, who are unbeaten to start the season. We are also averaging 60 inside 50s a game; again, it's a small sample size but it shows that we having no problems winning the footy and getting it forward. Our efficiency going forward still needs a little work, but that's another thing that can be fixed. Bottom line is that we have a game plan that can win us games. Once we get a few more games under the belt and we start to settle a little, then I think you're right in that these lapses may begin to subside. I'd still like to see a few game plan tweaks as well, but I also think that will come as the games this season progress.

I thought the same about Harmes, but then discovered he had 23 disposals. His heat map shows the majority of them on the half back flank near the boundary, or directly in the middle. I'd say he's playing the role of a foot soldier in contests, perhaps probably as the link player (received handball from inner mid, deliver to the runner/kicker); that might explain why his touches go unnoticed or appear low impact. I'd say he is probably contributing more than we are giving him credit for.

I know this is a generic reply, as I am being lazy and can't be bothered re reading and finding the people who have written the comments such as "we need to demand more" and "we should expect more" etc. I really find these comments amusing!! How do we demand more???? What affect does that really have?? do you think the people involved at the club, such as the players and coaching group, don't want more and aren't working hard to improve and be better??? Of course they demand better from each other. i am sure after a poor game that the coaches go back and say, good effort, we are really happy with that close win, let's keep going like that and we will be fine!!! just as I am sure all the better performed teams play better because their fans demand and want more and don't accept mediocrity. these sort of statements mean nothing unless you actually have a way of doing something about it.

He was back to his insipid best. No marks, no goals, no influence. And you'd be ecstatic with a game like that ? Nothing surprises me on here.

All this ‘Dangerwoodlett’ crap has me getting behind the Hawks today which makes me feel quite dirty. Anyone else have a similar sentiment?

I think his demeanour is fine, my main issue is with our loyalty to this overloading behind the contest AND then we panic kick to the forward line where our players are not. It is fuel to the fire when teams get a run on. We just give it to them on their HB line. I think we need to read the game better and make it a one-on-one contest when teams have the momentum against us. I honestly think we can win against most teams in an arm wrestle.

BT brain cell count: 8

Amen to that. If he kicked more than he handballed then he would be considered one of the Top 10 players in the game already. He stood up for us in the second half when others didn't - he had 23 touches of his own in the third and fourth quarters. He had 35 touches, 22 of them contested to go with 11 clearances and 8 tackles. He does it every week without blinking an eye. Absolute superstar.

Haven't watched much non MFC footy this year so it was the first time I've seen Dermie. [censored] me, is that hairstyle some sort of April Fool's joke? The poor [censored] looks like a billy goat turned upside down. FMD , what a buffoon.

Please just replay this game next Good Friday instead of letting North and St Kilda play.

Cam Guthrie caught dropping he ball that leads to the point, then turns it over. Karma is a [censored] ya flogggggggg!

I'll do my na-na if Kent is brought in after 1 reasonable game at Casey

Agree. In addition to his near misses set up two goals with beautifully weighted kicks, including a critical goal to jeffy after a nice mark (yes an easy kick but how many of our players would have instead forced Jeffy to stop and mark and then have to have a set shot from 30?). Also has booming left foot which he doesn't hesitate to use.

With the Chinese space station due to crash onto the planet later today, let’s hope this doesn’t add to our injury list. It’s true that the odds of being hit are 3 trillion to one but after what this club’s been through over the past dozen years, we need to take precautions.

Re how Lever is playing/being played. 1. There is a big assumption on here that our coaches want him to play as the 3rd tall, sweeping, intercept defender. The assumption is based on Adelaide's game plan not ours. 2. Even if given the 3rd tall role he can't sweep and intercept if opp coaches isolate him. Scott plonked Lever's (debutante) opponent in the goal square and moved his other forwards away. Lever couldn't get to the play to make a contest. 3. If Lever can't play one on one he becomes a one trick pony. Opp coaches aren't going to sit there and watch him waltz around their forward line so he is being taught to play one on one. A good ref point is Rance who has learnt to play one on one and on Friday night showed how good he is when he was able to switch between the two. Lever is still learning the defense craft and when he does he will be every bit as good as if not better than Rance. It will take a little time but Lever and our team will be much better for it.

10 possessions, 0 goals. The wrist slitting by many posters on here after Watts kicked a few goals last week in a blowout win was truly embarrassing. Give me Bayley Fritsch any day.

Good post, TU. I have a feeling 2018 is all about finding balance. As long as we can keep winning early on, we'll hit our straps at a point and both ends of the ground will gel and we'll be formidable. At the moment, our defensive unit hasn't played a lot of football together and I think we've tweaked our press to sit deeper. This will take some time to implement consistently. The addition of Lever is also a personnel change that will require some time to gel. We got the defensive area of our game right for 4 quarters in a row (the second half of the Geelong game and the first half of the Brisbane game). Unfortunately, the forwards and mids were wasteful of opportunities in those 4 quarters. We should have been out of sight in both games. Our accuracy has been a big plus for us in the past, but this year it has noticeably dropped off. Improve this area of our game and we see us smash sides. The other aspect to our game style that still requires gelling is the forwardline. When our tackle pressure in the midfield but also forward of centre diminishes, our entire game style falls over and we get scored against heavily. So laying tackles is paramount, but also connecting between centre and half forward to goal is really important. Guys like Melksham, Petracca and (even) Fritsch are really good at this. Little lead ups to centre wing and high half forward and then clean ball use inside 50. We had real difficulty all of last week with these connecting players. Petracca managed it on occasion, but Melksham really struggled. But if we get consistent output from our forwards, they lay tackles and help connect as they should, then our entire team is helped. At this stage though, I'd say there's too much room for error in our game style, but there was far more last year. I think we've worked on a Plan A and B as I said last week, and these two presses will be implemented depending on the strength of the opposition. With more game time and experience, our players should be able to show a greater level of consistency and therefore execute the game plan most weeks. I really believe we're getting there and will get there. It might take another year of patience though. But let me be clear. I expect finals this year.

Hold the phone !! Didn't we put the brakes on Geelong in round one after they dominated us in the 2nd quarter. How did that happen?? Was their momentum only stopped by the half time siren ? I think the coaching staff are doing something right. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. At times it will look terrible but I still trust them.

From the author of the top 10 under 23 Ben Guthrie‏Verified account @BenGuthrie_ FollowingFollowing @BenGuthrie_ More Ben Guthrie Retweeted AFL.com.au Clearly should have had Clayton Oliver on this list! The midfielder has been absolutely immense tonight. So clean in slippery conditions. #AFLLionsDees #thegameisingoodhands

Have enjoyed listening to Mick this year since joining Grandstands coverage. What stood out to me today was his no-nonsense calling out of Selwoods ducking (it was a little diplomatic) and in general Geelongs tendencies to play for free kicks. Rather than pointing the finger directly at the players, he consistently made mention of “poor umpiring”. Love him or loathe him, the man is very knowledgeable and would be a worthy inclusion to the AFL administration of rules.

As much as I hate Hawthorn, I still enjoyed seeing Geelong fail. They (Geelong) won't win the Premiership as they just don't bat deep enough. Stanley is an absolute spud and the decision to play him was perplexing. McEvoy was close to best on but he was up against a klutz.

We moved up to sixth on the ladder. We are sixth on the ladder. We are sitting in 6th spot on the ladder.

Just heard BT describe Chris Scott as "One of those clowns you put the ping pong balls in with the mouth open with the turning head " Got that one right!

How are we going to get rid of BT? its a disaster to my AFL watching experience.

All good, Steve. I know we share some different perspectives on the club, but at the core of it all we just want what is best for our club and to see it succeed.

If I want a laugh I only need to go onto one of these threads. There's no perfect team, but Demonlanders don't seem to understand this. many think the Giants will win the flag this year and they nearly lost to a depleted Collingwood side that was two men down in the last. Sydney got rolled on their own deck. No teams are playing their best footy at round 2.

Great point Binman - I agree Speed was no-nonsense and just called the actual footy, unlike some of his boofhead contemporaries And from memory (haven't watched a second time yet), seemingly with a bit of soft spot for the Dees? Or perhaps his company (Roos) was rubbing off?

Classic Saty. Gets stuck into people for having an opinion, and when he's challenged on it he raises his hands in the air and claims it's just 'his opinion.'

Finally got to watch the game. They got back into it in the third quarter through a couple of silly errors from us but also through three or four key free kicks at the wrong place/time for us. Then we started Q4 limply and by the time we worked out what was going wrong (too many behind the ball and outworked on the spread from stoppages) they had slammed 4 on. We fixed those up, and coupled with being fitter/stronger than the younger Lions, and we turned the game back in our favour. Having read this thread beforehand, I expected Lever to stink - he was much better than this thread suggests. It seems we are trying to get him to learn to be the second key defender, and at times last night he was no good in that role, but he had a lot more opportunities to zone off and break up Brisbane chains last night and he did it a lot better than last week. Oliver, Hogan and Garlett were all outstanding. Gawn's first half was part of the reason we were on top - Martin improved as the game went on and Gawn's influenced lessened. We're carrying a stack of underperforming/out of form players: Bugg, Jetta, Hunt, Harmes, ANB, Melksham, Lewis and Pedersen were all either ineffectual or just OK last night. ANB disappeared after HT, Harmes wasn't sighted. Tyson was a major improvement on Maynard through the middle but he has an infuriating tendency to handpass to someone under extreme pressure. Has to stop doing that or he'll never become the player we need him to become.

Goodwin is not a demonstrative coach During the 3rd qtr Crossy was out on the field quite often and players on the phone when on the bench, what were they doing, ordering takeaway for after the game Goodwin can coach all he likes, if the players don't implement, listen to what Hogan said post match, back to fundamentals no bells and whistles We still have an inexperienced side who had freewheeled in the first half, we tried it again in the 3rd when Brisbane lifted with the obvious result We steadied in the 4th because the leaders righted the ship and went back to fundamentals We learn again and move onto the next game

At least he’s realised his mistake but it’s a crazy one to make in the first place.

Twins will do that to you!

As usual, Demonland treats many things in absolutes, as if it is either the coaches or the players, but not both. I agree with STMJ and others above that we have leadership issues and drop offs from too mamy players within games (Oliver stands out to many of us because he plays four quarters). But we are too frequently outnumbered in our forward line and too often allow our opponent’s loose man to dictate play and those are coaching issues, not just player issues.

I'm in the camp that we need to bring Frost in to release Lever to that third tall, intercept marking player as that is his biggest strength. He definitely needs to be able to one on one defend as well, but I'm sure he will continue to work on that while we also utilize him in our side. At present it seems Wagner is playing the third tall role and while I thought he was ok on Saturday night, we've got a player who is miles ahead of him in that role so he must go out. I want to get Brayshaw back in the side, but I'm unsure who makes way for him. Salem isn't racking up heaps of touches, but he is doing some good defensive things and we need his kicking going inside 50 so I don't want him out. Hunt does seem to have lost a little of his explosive pace, which I wonder is a result of the back issues he has been having? I also think he should be played more of the half back flank where he can break the lines with his run. People calling for Lewis to go out are kidding themselves, he will play the whole season if fit. He needs to only play the sweeper role though as that suits him at this point in his career. He will also become more important as the season gets on and the play starts slowing down due to players tiring. Vince did a good shut-down role on Zorko who can really cut teams up and has had massive games in the past. I would be putting Vince on Higgins as he is probably the Roos most dangerous mid now. So just one change for Round 2 with Frost in and Wagner out. B: Jetta OMac Lever HB: Lewis Frost Hibberd C: Vince Oliver Tyson HF: Petracca Hogan Neal-Bullen F: Garlett Pedersen Fritsch R: Gawn Jones Salem Int: Melksham Bugg Hunt Harmes

Imagine nabbing Ollie Wines at the end of the year!!

I think (hope) it is simply a case of a coaching dept with a young team still with plenty to learn, and the end game is to have our players learn to work through slumps themselves by making their own adjustments. The coaching dept give guidance during, before and after, but really you want the players on-field to eventually make those moves and make it work before the coaches need to intervene.

That Jones kick up the line to a contest was stupid. That was the exact time we needed to chip the ball around and maintain possession for a minute or two to take some wind out of the Lions sails. We seem unprepared to do that, not sure if it's down to having no confidence in our skills to do it or what. It's one thing to be frenetic in your attack and pressure but when the opposition gains momentum your frenetic energy works in their favour. That's when you need to hold on to the footy, chip it back and forth across half back for a few minutes to frustrate the opposition and slow the game down. I don't really understand why we don't do this, we keep pushing ahead trying to wrestle back momentum through pure will but it's like the opposition uses our own momentum against us.

Though he didn't set the world on fire, I thought Pederson still did some good stuff. A few of his passes into the forward line to Jessy Hogan were spot on. Though I don't really recall him clunking many yesterday, he provided a pretty good aerial contest. Hogan and Jeffy were on fire and were very enjoyable to watch. Couldn't care less how that other bloke played for Port, any more than any other player in the league. It's done move on. Go DEMONS.

We rely on contested ball and when it comes free, we don't have the players to spread. Taylor, Cox, Cameron, Christensen etc cut us to ribbons like the Cats last week in the second quarter. The ball was greasy and that affected our game. We had a 6 day turnaround interstate and gave up a longer break to our opponent. Same will happen next week . We have some players like Hunt and Jetta who are badly out of form. We have sub AFL skilled players like Bugg getting a game. We are not using Lever like the Crows did . He needs to take the third forward, not the main or second one, as that then allows him to spoil more contests and sweep and set up play, which he can do very well . We don't shut down play when a side gets a run on . The umpires were pathetic and we don't have duckers and actors. We have one of our best mids and our second best forward out injured . Players like Kent, Stretch and Baker, who have pace need to come on to give us that outside run, or we need to find a couple. In the end we won and fought back at the death and it was a hard earned 4 points and I will gladly take them .

I don’t know why you can’t post this without the first sentence.

It seems like our answer to surges at the moment is to throw numbers behind the footy. The problem with that is that the other side have all the momentum, smash us around the footy and don't let us clear our defensive 50. They get opportunity after opportunity to score. I'm not sure the coaches can do too much else at this stage. It's up to our leaders to say " [censored] this. I'm going to put my nose over the next contest. You're not getting past me." See Joel Selwood, Luke Hodge, Josh Kennedy.

That thirty metre handpass to Trac in space which led to Hogan's 5th goal? Yeah … that was better than any [censored] kick.

He's playing AFL midfielder minutes on ground now, too. He just gets the ball, and gets away a clean disposal, in ways other players just can't. We've been waiting for a star for so long, it still hasn't sunk in that we've finally landed a genuine one.

What a player.... thank you Jason Taylor for moving up in the draft to get him. Stroke of genius.

Got to love some of the collective hypocrisy going around on this forum Re Frost and Lever. A few weeks back the story was Frost is a liability and not best 22, Lever a total gun, going to be soo great for us. Now it's - gee, we need Frost because Lever isn't up to it one on one and needs Frost so that he can play his natural game. Pretty easy for players to look like superstars when others are doing all the heavy lifting and they don't have to be accountable for a man. Personally I think somewhere in between is where the truth of all this sits. When he's on his game, Frosty can be a real asset in his own right, but I do think it has been shown up how much people underate his contribution to team ballance, because he give us a third genuine tall, without sacrificing run and mobility. Ironically, as much as it could help Lever, having Frost, I think it could also help Hunt, because I suspect he is also attracting the oppositions best/quickest defensive forward at the moment. For the record, I also think Hibbard and Jetta have got form issues and have been solid without being at their normal output levels and that also won't be helping the Lever situation. I don't think Wagner isn't as bad as some people make out either.