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please stop talking about dwayne...

And I would bet my left nut that if we did give 2 first rounders he would be the first to say something like geez the dees overpaid for him. He is a nut job and highly irritating.

146 pages wowewwwwww i want Watts to stay. To be part of our success. I won’t argue again on the pros & cons But I applaud the passion shown by all but no more insults we are not Range Rover drivers who ski in the winter. Remember we all love the MFC We are resilient We want that premiership Go Demons

Man, reading this thread is making my head ache. We're eating our own here arent we. To summarise. Either 1. we're incompetent fools, messed up how we moved on this and now were gonna get a bag of crisps trade. Watts is unique charecter and a champion about to blossom, loved by all, poorly communicated to...Stabbed in the back by blundering officials who stamped his papers years ago. Or 2./ Watts is soft, trains poorly, no leadership, no top ten finishes. Unfufilled talent, sidetracks the whole club, didnt take his chances. Goodwin marking his territory. The trouble is I agree with each post on both sides as I read them!...hence I have a headache. Almost feels like a relationship break up. "I love you .......but I have to go"

I think you need to be very careful. If you're a Melbourne Football Club supporter and member and truly care for this club and its future then you need to be aware of the potential damage your comments may have. If you're a friend, family member, acquaintance, team mate, member of management team etc . . . of Jack Watts then you need to be equally careful not to betray the confidence placed in you. Your tone since you started posting has changed. Your agenda is clear. At the moment all you are doing is rubbishing the club, its coach and its footy dept boss. This club is so close to the ultimate success, with or without Jack Watts and my tolerance for anyone creating bad blood at this particular point in time is very low. You have every right to make your point but now its clear your agenda has surpassed the questioning of the club and is instead focused on discrediting it. Sue, Ron, Rusty, Beelzebub and Jumbo have been clear in their pro Watts stance but regularly posters here know that they love this footy club and should Jack leave, that love may well be tarnished but they'll still be here. Your loyalties are not as clear. I think we deserve a little transparency from you given the mountain of Jack Watts related posts you've provided since your recent arrival.

Or the Crows can take the deal presented to them.

Watts is 100% gone. It has come to my attention that Watts has been shown the door with the full knowledge and approval of the leadership group...... people who love Jack and are close friends with Jack. The leadership group think the team will be better without him and also think its best for Jack. The final straw (as previously discussed) was the trip to Byron and his failure to do what ever he could to get back to full fitness as fast as possible. It angered many players and coaches. It sends the wrong message to the playing group. I am a Watts fan and this devastates me...... he is gone.

Really must get around to clearing out the censored word list one of these days.

My respect for Jonesy has increased. He's one of Jack's best mates and he's backing in the club. What does that tell you? This is what a team-first mentality looks like. As Nathan said last night, talk is cheap and we as a club have start showing what we're about through our actions. Trading Watts, for me, is an example of the club walking the walk.

I'm doing everything I can to ignore the alarm bell clanging in my ears about Goodwin. Someone get me that musical duo from the BnF. That should drown it out.

I don't think MFC has handled this poorly at all. It's a challenging situation. The message in the media is for MFC members to understand the reasons why Jack is being traded and judging by the response here there is a great demand for reasons from Jack's many fans - and many remain unsatified. The "lack of professional preparation" reason is not a character assassination and it's one that some other clubs probably believe they can turn around. AFAIK there has not been a word about "the contest". Clubs understand the capabilities and shortcomings of all players on AFL lists and don't take any notice of what is said in the media when forming their list management strategy. It's clear that MFC wants to trade Jack and it's no use pretending otherwise. He has the opportunity to seek out his preferred destination. MFC will execute a trade to get that done and it's fair enough too, for the loyal service Jack has given. Absolute maximum value may not be squeezed out but I'm confident a reasonable value will be negotiated. Almost all clubs these days want to maintain a reputation as reasonable traders - they know the boot will be on the other foot soon enough. It IS sad that Jack is leaving but we're in the business of fearless football.

MFC have been working/shopping the Watts trade this morning. MFC have inquired about Zac Jones Plus pick or player in exchange for Watts. Although this was not outright rejected by Sydney, Sydney indicated this was unlikely. Zac is a required player.

Not me. I had a drink every time a player said ummm during their speeches. Thank God for Lewis or I'd be undergoing a liver transplant right now.

Caro’s annoying, until she agrees with us.

2013 - 17th with 2 wins and a percentage of 54.07% 2014 - 17th with 4 wins and a percentage of 67.89% 2015 - 13th with 7 wins and a percentage of 76.96% 20146 - 11th with 10 wins and a percentage of 96.60% 2017 - 9the with 12 wins and a percentage of 105.22% We've all seen the above progression. Put simply I don't want this momentum to be harmed by anything. The Watts debate is heading into dangerous territory. If Goodwin and McCartney and Mahoney are wrong on this one so be it. The credits are in the bank for me. You can question this decision but the abuse these guys have copped is over the top. We've got to look at the big picture and back them in - not because it's the easy or lazy thing to do but because the tangible evidence supports what they're doing to this footy club. rpfc makes a fair point - in the past there has always been a chorus telling the naysayers to pipe down but comparing what happened under Schwab or Neeld with what has happened over the past three years since Goodwin has been at the club is unfair.

I did. Have been happily married for 12 years this year.

You're not sitting on the fence, you just recognise the complexity of the situation. It's possible to appreciate Jack's loyalty through terrible times, feel appreciative of the good footy he has played and feel some attachment to him, AND think that if he is consistently still not reaching the standards required of a player of his standing, then he should probably go. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive. As always though, most people want to see things in black and white.

Maybe those supporters were thanking Jack for being loyal to the footy club over nine years where he was subject to arguably the most inept administration and leadership in the modern era and a football department that was often divided, under-resourced and incompetent. And maybe they recognize that perhaps we are the prime reason Jack didn't fully realise his talents with us. Maybe they were saying thanks for sticking by us when we wanted you to stay despite having offers at much better clubs at greater remuneration. Maybe they recognize that he didn't make the best of his talent when he was with us but was still clearly best 22 and gave us some great moments and very good games. Perhaps they are not so childish to vent their disappointment that he failed to live up to the messiah status that was sold to ignorant supporters by a CEO who was desperate to find someone to take the focus off his and the club's failures. Maybe Jack is a great guy. Maybe they recognized that he's run his time at this club and were both thanking him for what we've forced him to endure over nine years and wishing him the best for the future. I don't know if you're one of the ones potting Tex for his comments about Jake Lever leaving but those supporters who are potting Jack at every opportunity to justify the clubs decision to move him on and to vent their own anger at Jack for letting them down make Tex look like a diplomat. I find your comments ignorant, intolerant, and without any understanding of the complex issues that are clearly being played out very publicly. We are viewing something that is quite sad and reflects poorly on our Club. And yet you are dancing on Jack's grave and criticising supporters who aren't. Go figure.

Proposing at 21 years of age? He can't be too smart then..

Can one of the mods kindly ban me from looking at this thread any further..

Comparing Neeld era to Goodwin era? I think Goodwin has a few credits in the bank. The support for Watts is admirable. The abuse of Goodwin and the footy department as a side product has been deplorable. The times and the standards at our club have changed. We've lamented our culture and loser mentality forever on this board and now we're prepared to question those responsible for our upward spike. As I said earlier, every supporter and member has a right to question footy dept and club-wide decision making and processes but many of those in a rush to support Watts have basically written off Goodwin. I think he deserves better. Jack told the membership last night that we're in amazing hands. I agree.

Nothin like a Jack Watts thread to make us all turn on one-another. Go you good things!

mind if I bookmark this and throw it back at you later ?? You're one of those that want to quantify him over the journey and not who he is right now ? I say that as anyone else at any other club wont share your view. They'll be judging Jack on who and what he is right now and what he can bring to their game. Since Goodwin ( previously Roos ) has had influence Jack has actually lifted considerably. He just just doesn't fit the mould. Yes Jack was 5th in 2016 playing the role given. Cracker of a year. 2017..given more roles than a one man band. Did them all with aplomb 'til injured. Still came in with respectable figures all things considered . Not ONE other player was asked to play as many different positions as JAck. So by your reckoning any old bag of crisps is decent exchange?

Excellent reading on facebook at this time of the year.

I have just risen from a dusty night at the the Bluey. I will tell you this 'Landers....Watts is 100 per cent out the door. Don't be emotional...he is a good bloke..liked by all..but he has been pi=1ss poor with his preparation and is a lazy person off-field. This confirms my own thoughts and the exact thoughts and info I posted here, long before GNF's update yesterday. W Jack's undoing was the trip to Byron...which I posted about at the time and so many fellow posters dismiswsed this as ' footballers have to have others interests'....complete crap-ola .. he was doing his own thing, without MFC knowledge or approval. f.....k that. we have god ppl at the club now and good players who are busting their arse to perform. Watts isn't in this category. In other news..Hogan is still on the darts and still a rude pr!!ck

Tex obviously isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but jeez... know when to stop mate. You're making yourself and your club look terrible.

lol, a bit rich of Tex to say that after his GF effort. Didn't scream "success" to me.

The speeches were telling. Viney mentioned Oliver was the hardest trainer at the club and lo and behold he wins the B&F. Lewis spoke of begrudgingly doing "extras" as he was thanking some of the coaching staff. Does anyone here thinks Watts trains hard or does all he can to be the best he can be ? But still the fawning and excuses will continue.

See, he is still in our best 22.

This is absolute trash, Bobby. This is the sort of childish, uninformed post that is permeating this thread. It's disgraceful and based on nothing. I think I'm done with this thread.

Different arena, but my most troublesome handful of direct reports over the last ten years were the ones who, despite clearly getting direct messages, claim they never got said messages or feedback. I have no insight into what has gone down with Watts, but it's not impossible for someone to genuinely believe they haven't had feedback, and someone else genuinely feel they've given feedback multiple times. In an environment where Jetta, who had a wife suffering mental illness, was told to pull his finger out in pre-season by his own admission. And where Oliver was told home truths about his preparation and needing to lose weight, that they would've tip toed around Watts? I don't buy it.

That doesn't mean that he's a good influence on their football. Young people are attracted to good blokes that they can relate to in a social sense. Our best young gun was interviewed on SEN this morning after winning the Bluey. Nobody would guess in a 30 picks who he developed his training habits from this year. Billy Stretch. Oliver said that he copied everything that Stretch did on the track. Can't imagine any of the young guns copying Watts training habits.

that you, paul....paul?

The trade breaker.

Unless Watts' handling of his exit interview is what convinced Goodwin he needed to be traded?

converted wife into a demon when she was 15 and i was 17...21 years and three junior dees later and all i want now is some fricken success - and i'm talking hawthorn-like twenty year dynasty not some willy nilly one-off fluke premiership - to justify my selection... (and only really posting this to keep the lever run rate ahead of the watts' innings)

FFS get the deal done, already. Please!

Also telling, the high position of ANB in the vote, especially the votes per game (he ranked 8th, I think). Work hard, play your role, get the best out of yourself, impress coaches. Simple in principle.

I am a notorious fence sitter but probably the most important question is - Is anyone truly surprised it has come to this with Watts ? If the answer is no ( which is the answer you would arrive at if you were looking at this detached and unemotionally) then the next question is who needs to take responsibility for it coming to this ? It can be fraught with danger trying to compare one player to another, but a player should definitely be judged on whether they are getting the best out of themselves and doing everything possible to get the best out of themselves. After 9 years I would question Watts on him getting the best out of himself.

That's not telling the whole story though. At Round 14 he was 6th. Then he got injured and his season nosedived. Granted he doesn't get a free pass for that, but he wasn't the first ever player to struggle coming back from injury.

The other question is - how did Oliver NOT make at least the AA squad of 40 this year?! Bloody outrageous.

Destined for Essendon unfortunately.... 'Arm Syringe'

Too true. Black and white makes arguments easier. But I love the beauty of grey. The truth is in there. PS. Can we stop being complete d!cks to each other over this? We would all lament his lack of commitment and marvel at his skills. We all want what is best for club - deal with it.

Apparently Tex is going in for surgery... Word has it they're scouting around for another half a brain !!

And Geelong have exactly how many first round picks? None. They have 20 & 33. They also want Ablett and Watts and and and...Geelong no chance. Derwayne continues to prove that he is an incompetent idiot, incapable of coherent thought.

I enjoyed Viney's talk on Oliver's work ethic (side note - how funny was Viney's spoiler. You're not supposed to announce the winner in your runner up speech!). I thought the fact that a renowned hard trainer like Viney said he tried to keep up with Oliver in the gym and couldn't, painted a very exciting picture. You have to wonder how many other players there are out there with such unharnessed talent. Oliver ended up as a high pick but footy world was divided on him. He was a talented but overweight and unfit junior with no concept of how a professional athlete should train. He was told to lose weight, so he stopped eating. Even after a year at the club, he coasted in his first year, until he had a frank discussion with Brendan McCartney at the beginning of last pre-season, and had a lightbulb moment. He got paired up with Billy Stretch - a player who would have been groomed as a professional for his whole life by a parent who gets it. He got absolute reward for his new found application, and he strikes me as the sort of character who won't rest on his laurels now that he's seen the benefit of hard work. How good is it that after all these attempts in the draft in the last decade, we finally bloody found one? Well done Clarry. A much deserved B&F; we're so excited to have you. I'm ready for next year now.

The Bluey is a look into the way the coaching team is thinking. Whilst we on the ‘outside’ can see merit in his game (and perhaps he pulls off a blinder and wins the QB after the siren), it is interesting that the coaches are not seeing what they need to see in his play to earn him higher votes. To finish in 21st gives a real indication that he is not performing for the club in ways that is setting the coaching team alight. I imagine that all of the 100’s of pages of posts here dissecting his performance from outside - and guessing at what is happening inside - could be summed up in this result. Here is a player with so much talent who - against the metrics set by the club - was 21st best. We bring in 2 players and he isn’t even best 22....

Everyone is questioning his effort and courage. He is never going to be Sloane, Selwood or Viney. he never shirked a ruck contest when he was one out which is a different type of courage again. he is more Mark Waugh....when he hits 100, it looks effortless...we he gets stumped dancing down the pitch for 3 hd is lazy. I just can't have talent walking out the door. I certainly want him to stay.

Is t just me or does it seem like the crows as a club have totally lost the plot?