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If he does, I expect he'll be very proud of his son. 99.999% of posters here are absolutely over the moon that he's nominated this club.

As an update to my previous post, I am yet to get a name but apparently this quality midfielder has given a verbal desire to join us. Name apparently isn't circulating at all in the media yet.

Alls well at North Melbourne trade HQ

The idea that the club owes anything to Jack because he was "Loyal" is moronic to say the least. I have been a supporter for 26 years now and have felt the same anxt and hardship that we all have but year after year I wear red and blue, get into arguements with other footy teams fans defending us, pay my membership and go to/watch every game I can. I live in sydney and I fly interstate often just to see our boys play. By the logic that we should keep the players due to loyalty then I would say 99% of us Demonland members would deserve a game in red and blue. Jack is an interesting case. and although I have a completley different career path to him I think him and I have some similarities. I joined my job in 2008 at the age of 17, showed a lot of promise early and had regularly under performed do to general lack of interest. very good at my core job, one of the brighter kids in my working environment and had heaps of good friends, and if I put in more effort I could have probably been along further in my career, but instead I relied upon my natural ability to my arrogance and coasted along. It wasn't until I was sat down by my bosses and had my resignation signed for me and I saw people that I considered below me in terms of job ability started surpassing me due to attitude and professionalism that the penny dropped and I started being accellerated through my career. Not trying to make it about me because it's not but heres my lesson learned.? Did my employer owe me anything? NO Was my career path solely decided by myself? YES Did I deserve chance after chance to improve my attitude and general mood towards the organisation? NO Thankfully I pulled my head in and im into my 10th year in the Navy with a lot ahead of me. Also, I am not sure who here plays local footy but the same goes there. At my local club if you don't train and prepare the way the staff want you to and what is expected of you then you don't play, simple as that.We don't get paid, or anything like that, but you owe it to the people taking their time out to coach you, and play along side you to tow the line and give them the effort they deserve. Whether you're premier division or division 5, the same standard is set across the board, no matter how good you are or how much the team needs you, we have had our captain dropped after he missed a team session on a Thursday night because he chose to get on the [censored]. Jack and I are similar ages (26/25) so I would like to think I have a geenral idea on how his mind works. He, just like me (Any my missus will agree to this) have a [censored] load of growing up to do and still consider ourself one of the boys and still a bit immature, and just like him, I have junior people in my organisation look up to me whether they like it or not. The standard that you hold is the standard that is set. So for me to say "Yep, trade him, [censored] him" would be rich however when I was staring down the barrell of a resignation I wasn't surprised and didnt expect my bosses to show me any leniency any more (Thank god they did). Jack, don't be surprised at the situation that you have created for yourself, would we all love to see you in red and blue next year? sure, but do we expect a hell of a lot more from you? Yes. Get to the early training days that the first years have to attend, train harder than anyone on the track and hold yourself to a standard. But if you even for one second think that the club, playing group, coaching staff, members and fans are even going to let you put a toe out of line then youll be playing for Casey and removed from the club so quickly then youll want to look for a new job.

He had a career year in 2016 (not a "great" year but a good year nonetheless) Signs a 3 year contract Comes back in less than ideal condition after being content with his 2016 performance Makes amends after copping public criticism about his preparedness Has a decent 2017 recapturing his form of 2016 Gets injured A 2 week injury takes 4 weeks to return to senior footy due to his lack of preparation On return from injury he stinks it up against Port dropping chest marks, fumbling easy balls and having 9 disposals (the fewest for the MFC on the day) He has a couple more poor efforts notabky against North in Tas He gets dropped to Casey and returns for the final H&A game against the Pies where he is allegedly one of our better players (I haven't seen most of this game so can't comment) That timeline seems pretty self explanatory and that's only the last 12 months - obviously the coaches/FD thought he'd turned the corner and then cracked it when he returned to preseason training last year. There's plenty of anecdotes about him liking the footy lifestyle, going out for beers 3 or 4 times a week etc. The coaches don't want guys like Petracca, Oliver, Hogan etc falling in to those bad habits, they want them to follow the lead of Viney and Jones who push themselves to the limit to get the best out of themselves. Seriously, do people think Goodwin et al are gonna cut off their nose to spite their face just because of a perceived personality clash? Here's a novel idea maybe Watts actually has had a role to play in this and he's not just the innocent victim of a bastard coach. If Goodwin thought Watts would contribute to our rise up the ladder and our push for a flag don't you think he'd keep him around? Or do you honestly think hes that stupid that he would push him out just because he doesn't like him selling board shorts to hipsters?

Look at Q4 of the Carlton game, ie the first one, round 2. Watts's role was crucial in us winning that game. Wihtout him we would have lost. Or take another one: that breakthrough win against Hawthorn in 2016. That little toe poke kick to Tyson which got us a crucial goal, then (later) that razor sharp 50m kick to Tyson for the gaol that killed them off. He's not an accumulator (I may have misspelt that..) , racking up 30 touches week after week, like Oliver. Nor is he a physical player who busts packs, like Viney. But those guys haven't got the skills that Watts has to split open a defence by a penetrating kick, or to kick a crucial goal from an angle. His disposal are fewer but in many ways dealier. A team is just that, a team, it takes a combination of severals kinds of player, working as one, to be successfu. And a guy like Watts is just as much an essential part of that as say an inside player like Jones. For God's sake keep him.

Actually more bullish-t on DL.

No interest in trading Neal-Bullen. Was one of our big improvers this year, only in his 3rd year and will get better. Can play forward or mid. I think our original offer for Lever of 10 and 27 is very fair and we should only have to move slightly on this (perhaps 27 moving to early 20s) to get this done.

Adelaide fans want to make Lever walk to the draft to "make a statement" to other clubs. That statement would be "if you won't pay our price, we're willing to accept nothing at all". I really get a kick out of how totally moronic people can get when it comes to their footy teams. Emotion has trumped all reason, and not in a good Titus way. There is absolutely no way Lever will make it to the draft. None.

The end of the football season is the time of year when we thank all those who have contributed to Demonland during the past season as well as all those who post here or simply visit and read without posting. We value your contributions and ongoing support - especially to Nasher who keeps us going on the technical side, to our moderators whose task is often thankless. Their job is never easy. Special thanks to our regular contributors, Whispering Jack, George on The Outer, The Oracle, JVM, KC from Casey, Grapeviney (my podcast co-host) and all others who have provided us with material and articles. Let's hope that 2018 will finally be the year that we break through and experience a taste of finals football. We also look forward to the second year of women's competition and hope a finals appearance there will be a prelude for later in the year. As always, we are on the look out for new contributors who have something to say about the mighty Demons. If you have the talent or simply want something to say about the club in article form, please contact me via PM. Cheers, thanks again and keep your eye on the red and the blue. Andy

The bulk of your post I'm not entirely in agreement with, but I take issue with this line in particular... Goodwin took us from 11th last year with a percentage of 97.6 and 10 wins, to 9th this year with a percentage of 106.5 and 12 wins, many of those wins concocted with a number of our best players unavailable. Having no experienced ruckman after Gawn and Spencer went down, Goodwin was forced to improvise using Watts and Pedersen, which in turn meant a complete rethink of the back and forward lines as players had to be shuffled around, often into unfamiliar positions. Yes we probably should have made finals (and probably would have had an experienced coach like Roos still been in the driver's seat), but to say that Goodwin was average (reads like failed) as a first year coach is a very very harsh call.

People who quote the poor decisions and turnovers of other players have little clue. This is about preparation and effort. It was incredibly disrespectful to Goodwin, who he knew was trying to set standards in his first year as coach, to prepare poorly during the off-season. Word of his activities would have been getting back to the club. There aren't many secrets in a club environment. He knew it was a big year for Goodwin, he knew we were a realistic chance for finals, but it didn't matter enough to him. You nearly always get what you deserve in footy (and life), which is why he's in the position he's in.

The angst on the handling of this is misplaced. How do you trade a highly popular player with two years on his contract without being transparent as to the reasons why ? You may not like the actual decision, but the club had no choice but to be candid once it was made. Making up bs while Watts was touring other club facilities would have led to more derision than what's here. If some see that as Watts being thrown under the bus so be it. I'm yet to see a credible alternative posted, but it's possible I've missed it.

This is the main bit I have a problem with... It should be between Jack and the FD (Coach) and not for public consumption. What they are doing is tying to justify themselves, they should be secure enough in their decision to not need public backing. There was also no need to hang Jack out to dry.

I can't express enough love for the current MFC admin. Mahoney straight and up front with the media. We didn't low-ball the Crows with our initial offer, but were very fair in line with our recent trading history. No histrionics, while providing reasonable recent trading precedents and showing up the Crows for being hypocrites re. Gibbs. PR battle won without breaking a sweat, with great short and long-term benefits. I don't see it, but I really hope we don't break from here.

I only read the first part of your post, but I can also point out that McCartney was highly regarded at Essendon, where he was an assistant coach in 2011. That's 12 years as an assistant at two other clubs where his reputation was impeccable. He's also apparently highly regarded at Melbourne and specifically by Goodwin. Having been to a supporters forum once where he was the star attraction I found him very impressive. Could it be that he did the hard yards at the Bulldogs that helped set up Beveridge's success ? If only a small part ? Could it be with what we're now seeing with Stringer and others such as Liberatore, that there was a core group at the Dogs with an unhealthy influence over aspects of their behaviour, or disenfranchisement with McCartney ? Who knows. We do know that Peter Gordon is an autocrat who gets rid of people in the blink of an eye. A friend of mine is on the Board and Gordon is very much a control person. He may have blinked too soon with Macca, although I recognise it's hard to push that line considering they won a flag. We'll never know what McCartney may have been able to achieve. Tumultuous leadership claims another CEO at Western Bulldogs "The tumultuous leadership of Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon has appeared to have claimed another scalp with the club appointing a third chief executive since Gordon resumed the head role at the club in 2013." http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/tumultuous-leadership-claims-another-ceo-at-western-bulldogs/news-story/6877e52188f29828fbb5c06e9f25b75a I believe we're in excellent hands with Goodwin, et al. Will he be a better coach and media performer in year two or five than year one ? One would think so. Do some emotional supporters make silly conclusions from afar ? Absolutely.

Would trade Kent. Despite the carry on about Watts, I would be less concerned about Kent going. At best he has only shown patches of form. He always looks half fit and runs hard in only short bursts. Does not have a tank. Sure he has had injury issues but inconsistency and poor form has been predominant over his time at MFC. On occasions he looks dangerous with the ball but only on occasions. He also can butcher the ball badly. People talk about Watts being lazy, however Kent is not exactly an example of a guy going hammer and tongs. In terms of value for each possession give me Watts over Kent any day.

To be fair, if the club brought in Ty Vickery and made him captain I'd be hard pressed not to have a gap year.

So your'e gulping down Ice Breaks while pulling trade stories out of your arz to ease the bordom?

He could have said Rudd..

i'm just sick of watts not going hard at the footy. i'd prefer tom mcdonald torching the ball in the d50 than see Watts playing bruise free footy

My 2 cents: For those saying this is all "Goodwin", and Roos got the most out of Watts etc. Sure, that may be true, but so what? It's Goodwin's team now. He can shape the list how he sees fit. We don't talk negatively about Roos bringing on board Michie, Riley, Kennedy et al. We just go with it. Roos has been great with culture absolutely. He has only won 1 premiership as a coach. With Goodwin, he's a premiership player x 2, a captain of a footy club and a natural leader. I back him in knowing what it takes to build a premiership list. To Watts. Yes he's loyal, and a great club man. Yes he has skill. These types of individuals definitely have their place in any club and have great benefit. What he simply lacks is his drive or ambition to do what it takes to be the best. In the past, this may have been enough, but with the professionalism of AFL now, it simply is not. I use Trent Cotchin as an example this year. Previously I would have put Cotchin in Watts category. Nice, polite, and skillful. This year he pushed himself to the next level. His desire to get "dirty" and put his body on the line really showed. I'm yet to see this in Watts. There was a post comparing stats earlier about Watts and Lynch. That is quite damning. Something that we don't have stats for, which would essentially find Watts out in my opinion is the number of times his marking contests brought the ball to ground when he didn't mark it. Our game plan is if we can't mark it in the fwd 50, to bring it to ground and trap it in our forward 50. When Watts didn't do this during the year on several occasions, it led to a transition and goal or score down the other end quite often. It releases the pressure both implied and scoreboard and kills momentum. Long story short, it's clear that when we make finals next year, Goodwin simply doesn't feel confident in picking Watts as he's not sure which Watts he would be getting. Thus...he's a liability.

I think we are discussing different matters 'vibes. Ruthless - we need more of it. However, the Watts situation is looking plain silly. Here is a 170 game player and poster boy, and for all his acknowledged faults, still , on his day a matchwinner publicly proclaiming his love and loyalty, while the club is apparently trying to show him the door. This with the background of a team that specializes in shitty disposal and is hungry for goalkickers - Jack's two strengths. At the same time we are bringing in a defender on megabucks. Is this the publicity a "destination" club needs?

I bought about $1500.00 worth of cold drip apparatus’ last week with the intention of making enough to supply my mates coffee shop. I also bought 240 small screw cap bottles to put it in and a steriliser for the bottles. A properly prepared batch lasts 4 months. I ended up using the steriliser for cleaning baby bottles as it’s much bigger than the one we purchased from the baby shop. And I put the cold drip into large bottles and drink it during the day like I normally would water. My heart is continuously palpitating but my gym workouts are pretty good. Back on topic, I heard Watts hated Sydney. He went out on the town with Franklin and has been awake for 3 days.

I probably don't need to respond because ProDee has made the point. But we're talking about effort. Football is a game of mistakes. If you were to analyse Dustin Martin's best games this year you would find them littered with errors. All players have flaws. All players make mistakes. I'm as frustrated as anyone when Tyson turns it over or Oscar gets pushed aside or Bugg misses from point blank range but the reality is these are weaknesses that those players are most certainly aware of and working on. Watts doesn't work hard enough. He has received the feedback and apparently has failed to respond appropriately. That's why people like me (who do indeed 'like' Jack) are frustrated. He does things very few on our list can do yet continues to frustrate coaches with his work ethic at training and preparation for games. I can deal with the missed tackles if I see him working on it. I can deal with his timid approach to aerial contests if I see him endeavouring to improve in this area. Long ago I acknowledged that he was a flawed player but chose to instead celebrate his rare gifts but effort is non-negotiable. If the coaches deem his effort levels unacceptable, who from outside the inner sanctum could possibly argue? And in terms of Norm Smith, from the tales I've heard he valued a team-first mentality and succeeded because all players worked harder than every other club in the league. His adopted son lacked polish and became a legend of the game. I'm guessing he valued the same things Goodwin values.

Okay mate sorry. 2 spelling mistakes and use of an incorrect term. I will go back and enroll in another year of education just for that. If that's what you took from my post then I feel sorry for you.

Balic will come cheap, no need to trade Kent. You heard it here first. #ETthetradebreaker.

Abysmal in the sense we didn't talk him up? Club recruiters aren't stupid - they know what Jack is worth, and we've said through the lines that we wouldn't let him go for unders. He goes and we turn around Sydney's hypothetical second-round pick into a solid citizen like Hibberd while resolving some cultural issues. He stays, and has had the ultimate rocket, and we have a decent player on our list and maybe a heart-warming fairy-tale in the making. Win-win.

Nothing’s hit the fan. Those discomfited by the Watts situation should be reassured by the Lever endorsement. At the same time the club is trying to move on a player with questionable standards and preparation, another player with those qualities in spades - one of the competition’s most promising youngsters - has declared he won’t play anywhere but at Melbourne. Far from undermining the culture that Roos started building, Goodwin is strengthening it, and the players are 100 per cent behind him, evidenced by the fact that every single one of them has re-signed in the past 12-18 months.

There's a lot of cyberspace being wasted dancing around this issue but I believe this to be the core issue. Mahoney was as clear as he could be this morning. Jack doesn't work hard enough, train hard enough and isn't providing the example our young list need from one of the more experienced players on this list. It is patently clear that "not training hard enough" is not seen by our footy dept as a joke. It's in fact why we're here in the first place. It's evident you've lost faith in our coaching team and therefore don't share their view. But how could you possibly question them with such certainty? They have seen Jack day in day out for years. The evidence is at their fingertips and they've made a call. You can disagree with their call based on your outside perspective but slamming Goodwin and co every post is getting pretty tiresome.

The 2017 Keith "Bluey" Truscott Memorial Trophy is being held tonight at the Palladium Ballroom at Crown Casino. It will be streamed live on Monday night. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-10-05/best-and-fairest-live-stream In past years I keenly watch this thread for updates from people that are there or watch the club twitter feed. Will enjoy seeing it live. Great initiative by the club. Who do you think will take out the Bluey?

You got a source for that joke?

Of course if Watts is seen touring other clubs the MFC has to say something. But it could have said something like "The Club and Jack Watts have decided to explore options other than him completing his current contract at the Demons." Say no more, let others who want to speculate on why to speculate. No need to list Jack's faults (hardly a good bargaining position since making it clear he is 99% gone is information even well-informed clubs may not know for sure). Just refuse to comment further. Listing his faults publically is not good people management. If the club wants to send a message to the rest of the players, they can easily do so in private. The message sent now is that if you don't live up to expectations you can expect to be publically humiliated. Now some may think that is a good management style to motivate the team. I don't.

Dont talk nonsense he's not the first and he won't be the last. Off the top of my head Gary Ablett jnr, Stevie J and Michael Walters were all publicly criticised for not meeting standards. Two of those were banished from training with the senior squads for extended periods. Each one of them raised the bar and became far more professional in their preparation and attitude. Don't for one second think Jack wasn't previously given ultimatums in terms of what is expected and he would have been told in his 2016 exit interview how he was expected to return. Well we all know he didn't meet those requirements which show he was content with his 2016 season which whilst his best wasn't the best someone like him should achieve. Several of our players were interviewed in the pre season and asked about Jack and they all towed the party line stating Jack hadn't met the team standards. The club knows his potential as do other clubs and despite what some delusional Deminlanders think the club won't let him go for peanuts. Goodwin and the FD have finally drawn a line in the sand. Jack knows exactly where he stands now

Thanks to everyone who keeps demonland up and running. Its s great place to vent, discuss and argue about our inconsistent footy club.

I would not pay any attention to what Connors or any player manager says, about anything, at any time. They are stirrers and agitators trying to manipulate the situation to strike the best deal for their player. If that means throwing mud at other players, other clubs, their player's own club, well so what. All's fair in love and war. "Don't burn your bridges", said no player manager, anywhere, ever.

I'm (now) 4 posts in and just realised I've spun no yarn (thanks @Ethan Tremblay)... Hmmm, I'm a lawyer working in the state taxes field, married to someone far wiser than me, I love music (currently spinning new albums from The Horrors, Protomartyr, Wolf Alice, Foo Fighters, LCD Soundsystem, but I love anything really, from 90s Smashing Pumpkins to metal, electro, and some pop), and good TV (favourite recent shows include Bojack Horseman, Rick and Morty, Master of None, Fargo, The Handmaid's Tale, Catastrophe and GoT). In my spare time, I catch up with good people, sit in the sun (when Melbourne is good enough to get it), and I run @theshortnews on Instagram and other channels with the similar name where I use Lego to tell the news. I have a strange sense of humour (might explain the Dees thing, but Jimmy handballed me the footy 29 years ago, and that was that). Nice to meet you all - look forward to some good chats!

Would never attempt to hold the club to ransom over making the decisions they are paid to make, and reckon anyone that would needs to get a grip and rein in their own sense of self-importance.

Watts is still contracted and may stay at the Demons. Or he may retire and concentrate on selling overpriced fruit inspired short shorts. You heard it here first. #ETthetradebreaker.

That's not the bottom line. It's a recipe for mediocrity, and as I posted earlier, it's a miserably low bar to set for a 9-year player.

I'm interested in what you think Norm Smith would have made of Jack Watts.

And here was I thinking we had left this type of fiasco style of player management behind post PJ & new board ?

600 × 300 - twitter.com Seems a good deal to me.

Stuff them Scott Thomson played 300 games, pretty good player it's pay back time. They can pick SA kids, they are the second best footy state, they could have picked Graham, who kicked 3 goals in the GF, if they can't see good players under their noses then they should wake up.

Watts fan, but can understand how we got to this point with the lack of intent shown by Jack. My bigger issue is with the club and why this wasn’t addressed earlier: 1- why offer a new contract a year ago? 2- if he isnt training hard enough, pull him aside and address the issue then and there. 3- if he wasn’t playing by the team rules on game day, why did he constantly play in the seniors? 4- if you want contested style football, why does he still look like a beanpole? Should be 10kg heavier/stronger and bashing the opposition up. 5- now if we get rid of him, who replaces him? Will this player kick 30+ goals? 6- if he is in a rut/cycle, wouldn’t it be the coaches job to assist to change the environment to break the cycle?

Here's my take on it RPFC. 1. This is the first year Goodwin has had full and unfettered control of the list. Last year while the coaching transition from Roos (who is an unabashed Jack Watts fan), to Goodwin was in play would have been too soon for Goodwin to make such a call. 2. We know there were issues pre-season with Jack's preparation (this is true of every club) and according to at least one poster on DL there were issues with Jack and his attitude on the Pre-season Commando course. 3. Jack signed a good contract last year and again according to sources - Goodwin and Co. believe if you are going to take your slice of the pie then your performance needs to warrant that slice. Jack was dropped this year. There are clearly issues that the coaching group were unhappy with. 4. Goodwin is building a game plan and style around a very physical and contested ball winning model. This is not and never has been Jack's go. While I appreciate he is a sublimely talented player, I also think he is completely unsuited to this type of game plan that demands the same standard from every player. Jack just doesn't enjoy the contact element of football. His inability to keep his feet in a contest and failure to create second and third efforts as a natural part of his game are a liability where this needs to be a non-negotiable element of every player on the list. 5. I have no doubt that the club has given Jack clear instructions and direction during the pre-season and the season proper about what he needed to do in terms of his preparation and playing. I doubt he's on his Pat Malone there, but comments from the club indicate that they were worried about the influence this was having on others in the playing group. There are issues that clearly the club doesn't want or can't elaborate on further. I have my doubts that the penny dropped for Jack, hence some of his comments during the last week or so. 6. Given his comments at the TAB luncheon yesterday it was obvious to the club, that Jack was thinking there might be a chance the door might still be open of him remaining at the club. Though clearly Paul Connors had a better grasp of the situation. 7. The club was left with little option to publicly hose down Jack's expectations (well at least his publicly stated expectations) that there maybe a reconciliation with the FD and he would now be left with little doubt that he needs to accept his footballing future is not with the MFC. I know the club has not always treated Jack that well in the past and he has been loyal and I get that some supporters are upset, but my litmus test here is his manager. When you read between the lines this isn't really a surprise to Paul Connors and he can't fault Melbourne's approach. What this indicates to me is Jack should have been paying attention more closely to the change in management and taking more seriously the expectations the club had of him as one of its more experienced and better paid players.

I like this quote from Levers manager "Jake will only be playing for Melbourne next year," Guy said. "He won't sign off with any other deal"

Pick 5 for Omac? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?