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Maybe just maybe Jack Watts has been ruined by this club with its poor standards and constant changes and now that we are getting it together he just needs to refocus. One thing we know for sure and that is that he has better skills than most of his team mates and is the best set shot for goal on our list. He also has the ability to set up play and deliver the ball accurately to team mates. Perhaps instead of throwing him out with the rubbish, we try and get him to fit into our plans and get the best out of him. This is the same bloke who was composed enough to kick the winning goal on the run against the Pies, on QB and then run down the other end, to grab a mark and save the game. He is also the same bloke who was thrown into the ruck and ran himself into the ground for us earlier this year. He has talent, lets try and get it used for our benefit.

So you're telling me that we have more chance to unearth a star with 2 top ten and 1 outside than sticking with Oliver. That indicates to me that you don't see him as a rare talent capable (or likely) of becoming a star of the competition despite having as good a second year as anyone I can remember. That surprises me. I was expecting "three players are better than one", I wasn't expecting "if we had three picks we'd get on that's better than Clarry". Clarry and Trac are the two best prospects I've seen at MFC since Flower. They are in the right environment. There is no price I'd accept for either that could be seriously offered. And on a completely different topic I really like the Rivers/Lever comparison except Lever is a much better kick. For the record I loved Rivers, seriously underrated and if Lever was as good and could kick it would be gold for our club.

You must have really hated these moments...

He's had initial talks about a three year extension with the club. He wants to stay and we want him to stay

I lost mine in round 23.

Looking at the results of the survey I would say that nearly 70% of us want Jack to stay. Case of the noisy MINORITY I would reckon. Let's give this topic a break and let the MFC decide one way or another.

OK, you're perfectly welcome to bag Watts, that's your right. But when you state fiction as fact, that's another thing. Whatever it was that Jack was disciplined for preseason, it wasn't that he was "out of shape" or "acting like a millionaire". The club stated that he wasn't doing some things right at training, and it's still vague about exactly what it was. I have my guesses just like you, but they're guesses. And I can guarantee you that he is absolutely NOT the type of bloke who will be satisfied with ever having done enough. I've become used to him being traded. What concerns me is that the club is pushing a narrative that all that's wrong with the team is a "lack of intensity" and they're starting to connect that with whatever Jack's done. In other words, trying to hide other problems with our lack of skill, inadequacies in our game plan, inability to counter when the other team closes us up. But most of all in the latter part of the season there was a fear to take the game on that definitely wasn't there in the early part of the season when they were so fearless in "taking the game on" and attacking that they were prepared to persist even if it meant they conceded a few easy goals "out the back". I'd like to know where that enterprise, that fearlessness, vanished. It's as if they became scared to make mistakes, so tried to play within themselves in a number of games. But it seems to me too easy to hint at lack of intensity and hint at Watts (and to some extent Salem who was also dropped after our really poor game against GWS) being the problem.

I feel like Alice in Wonderland. Try to follow the thread. I didn't compare Lever with Rance, I compared him with Hogan. The point is that Lever is a young star of the competition like Hogan, Petracca, Oliver. Lever is CHB in Best 22 Under 22 two years in a row - Hogan, Petracca and Oliver have also made that team once. When you are thinking about the trade value for Lever you need to think in terms of what you would want for Hogan, Petracca or Oliver in similar circumstances. Pick 10 and change is not going to cut it.

I was scanning through the stations and just came across it, I swear.

Strangely enough although I think the AFL is often too quick to adopt a cause (it's like cause of the week sometimes) I am in complete agreement with their public stance on this occasion. All types of organisations have weighed in on this issue and I would be disappointed if the AFL "sat on the fence." As a young boy I can vaguely recall walking home with my mother after she had voted in the 1967 referendum. She was/is a conservative voter but she had no problem explaining to me that she was happy to vote yes on that occasion. I would like to think that this issue is carried by a similar proportion of the vote.

Serious questsion. How many first round picks do you think are fair for Danger or Martin (or an in form Fyfe)? How many second year players have you seen have more impact than Oliver? If we got three first rounders for Oliver what are the chances of getting a player anything like him? I think the reality is you can't put a price on Oliver because he is such a rare talent.

If the crows would prefer the 2018 draft I'd be happy to give them our 2018 first round pick and this years second rounder and keep pick 10

A really good article to read. He was honest, I don't think he held much back, it will be his lowest point for his career you'd think. The mark of the man is how he comes back from this. I think we played our best footy with him in there harassing and pressuring defenders, he got plenty of looks at goal but goal kicking let him down terribly at times. I feel there's a place for him in the 22, but he has lots to work on over the summer. Insights like this are important, they remind the public the players are human and not immune to online abuse.

Posted after the filth loss that we are losing AHG. They are pulling out of alll national team sponsorships and putting money into local dealerships who sponsor local teams. The club has 4 options they are working on.

Anyone who says Lever was pick 14 and therefore we shouldn't give anything more than pick 10 is kidding themselves. If that draft was re-done now, Lever would be pick 3 behind Heeney and Petracca. He's had three years of development too. I think two first rounders may be overs but 10 and 27 is probably the minimum we'll have to pay here. You can get a decent player at 27 but it's very hit or miss. Historically, we're pretty generous when it comes to trading....if we like a player, we'll try and get the deal done, unlike the Bummers, who in this situation would probably give pick 63 for Lever and still be kicking and screaming.

Nothing worse than the politicization of sports.

My Crows supporting mates rate Lever as the best young defender in the competition and think he's worth every bit of a straight swap for Petracca, or two picks in the first round minimum I don't know any Crows supporter who doesn't rate him super highly They are also cognizant of the fact that what they want for him and what they get will probably not match...

Not 9 draft picks. And that's for Danger or Martin who have performed at an elite level year after year. I know what Wiseblood was getting at, I just wanted to be a smartarse. But if you're asking me honestly about Oliver, I would take three first round picks over him, but as follows: Two inside the top 10 and one outside. I love Clarry as much as anyone, but I want us to unearth a genuine star of the competition. And we haven't done that yet or ever for as long as I've followed the club. I hope he continues this trajectory in both form and development because if he does, I may similarly say that you can't put a price on him. At present however, you can.

I wouldn't trade him for 9 first round picks.

As we did when a bunch of posters got it into their heads that Hogan was off to the west.

One thing's for certain. If Jack does go, I'll be able to fit the full Dland home page on my I-phone 5. With space to spare!

has he? Can you elaborate ?

Jizza and I regularly pm'd. He was quite open about his battles with depression and how Dland provided a welcome and helpful escape. Very sad situation and I suppose, a warning to all of the insidious nature of the black dog.

Really? Waleed Aly,Ali Fahour,and Malcolm Turnbull were in Houlis corner-3 upstanding men of unquestionable integrity defending another.Ha! Bugg just got left to cop the full force of the falsely outraged football media.Houli was defended as an ornament the game with the words "completely out of character" used ad infinitum. Bugg- on the other hand is a "serial pest', "antagonist", etc and deserved up to ten weeks according to some. I've never seen a greater case of cultural bias and the idiocies of it play out.

I think the AFL does have a reasonable mandate to take some social actions. The case as I see it is - 1. Everyone should feel welcome and safe attending or playing football. 2. Some people can reasonably believe they are not welcome and safe attending or playing football. 3. The AFL should take reasonable steps to overcome the gap. As for endorsing the Yes campaign. Well... hard to imagine someone feeling especially welcome at an AFL game if the sport is boldly declaring 'maybe' when asked the question "Is this person's relationship so soiled and awful as to be afforded lesser civil rights than murderers, drug traffickers, terrorists and rapists?". Yeah, 'maybe' doesn't cut it, does it? People can have their religious beliefs, and even have their belief that their religious belief should be imposed on the whole of society, but for a secular 'whole of society' organisation, it is important to show that basic level of respect for equal rights.

Yes we need commitment but we also need talent. Players who are 6'5" are quick, have endurance and elite disposal don't come along too often. I don't see we would get a suitable trade to match what we would lose.

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

Thirty Four!!!!

I guarantee you we won't win a single premiership or final with him in the side. There I said it. You need 22 players fully committed. Hard decisions need to be made. If Watts was at the Bulldogs under Bevo I don't think he would hesitate, he has the guts to make the tough calls.

There are sooooooo many things worse than the politicisation of sports.

Dodo was on Trade Radio yesterday, saying he doesn't understand why people think they are difficult, and that they have given players away ?

Or Macca knows him too well.

I've been on the fence with Watts. On one hand he has the talent to be a match winner and one of the best users of the footy in our side. On the other hand he lacks the application and desire to be a genuine superstar of the club. The fact Jones came out publicly about this and Goodwin had to send a message TWICE this year speaks volumes. Looking at the way the Dogs have handled Stringer and its a no brainer for me. He's had 9 years in the system, if he doesn't get it by now and especially after the message he got last pre-season then he will never get it, not at the MFC anyway. I'd be surprised if he's still on our list come November.

Oliver would be worth a 1st & 2nd Rnd pick now. Petracca so far with one knee already Op'd on, would be currently worth what we gave up for him. Hogan is worth more than what we gave up for him, as he has already demonstrated his fitness from the back, & has kicked bags of goals, and is still very young. His pedigree is a proven commodity, over a few seasons now. Lever might get to that, but he is a floating tall defender. He is not worth 2 x 1st Rnd picks, at this point with his career.

Let me tell you what my Crow friends think of Lever. A slow unaccountable 3rd tall intercept defender who is crap one on one but the same people would like Oliver, Trac, Brayshaw or Hunt in return.

Brayshaw had 24 AFL games on the board before Petracca made his debut. Petracca has now passed him with 39 games to 36. That is a huge amount of football for a young player to miss, and even in the games he has played there has been no continuity. We saw glimpses of the form that made him a No. 3 draft pick against St Kilda, then he looked all at sea against Collingwood. Even though his VFL finals campaign ended early it was the right decision to play him, as he just needs to play football at any level. Hopefully he can have a big pre season (no more head knocks), win himself a role in the midfield through the pre season comp and have a big 2018.

I’ll admit I haven’t seen a lot of Lever but what I have reminds me of a slightly upgraded version Jared Rivers at the same age and number of games. I liked Rivers a lot but anything more than our first round pick is too much. To me uttering Lever’s name in the same breath as Rance is silly.

Anyway it is a moot point. Watts is a required player. As several people have noted you don't trade a player with the skills your team so sorely lacks.

they the ones wearing invisible cloaks ?? We play like a rudderless ship all too often. Watts is far from perfect..I reckon hes got about 39 other mates in that category !! That so MUCH is placed at his feet as being HIS fault..is laughable. He's become EVERYONE'S whipping boy. If I was Goody and Jones etc Id be shutting up big time. The buck doesnt stop with Jack. Talk about not learning lessons and being hypocrites..fmd

We have our leadership group on-field .. And Watts is not apart of that group – for good reason. However off-field leadership which we aren't really privy to is where Watts should be excelling. He should be mature enough now to know how to set a good example for the younger guys .. Which is what Jones seems to be alluding to. I respect people's desire to defend Watts. I used to be one of those blokes. But enough is enough. The playing group and coaches are clearly frustrated and considering they have been the most patient over the years, if they think its time to part ways, we should too.

Or the club is painting the picture for members when a favourite of many is traded. I'm a Watts fan but there's absolutely no doubt he's tradeable for the right currency.

So Jones would be carrying the bags ? Think through before commenting. To tell the truth i laugh every time Chunk opens his mouth and repeats the mantra. Im tired of it personally. Id rather he just shut the [censored] up and be a better captian/ leader on the field than line up team members to throw under buses. We still have problems at Melbourne ...meh

He is another I'd love but I reckon he'll fall between 10 and 27 so mightn't be able to get him. I watched him a couple of weekends ago in ballarat and for someone who looks like a typically outside player given his physical stature, some of his defensive efforts, tackling and spoiling was super impressive. He looks like he'll be a very very good player. A great balance of attributes. Super quick, beautiful left foot and was happy to scrap. Looks like a classier version of Jasper Pittard but with the same competitive nature.

Jack is hugely popular and I also feel that the club is softening up supporters and preparing them for Jack to leave. The narrative has been suitably vague all year. Now Jones throws in some vague reference to Jack needing to be held accountable for 'out of hours' activities that might affect performance. I doubt all our 'senior' players are managing their 'out of hours' activities and doing everything they can to perform and it showed when their performance lapsed. Yet Jack is the only one that gets a public dressing down. Not happy. Our players should be treated the same, at least in public.

Not sure if serious or not??? Jesse has done more in 2 years than jack has in 7! Jesse also lost his father this year Jesse also battled cancer himself this year Jesse broke his collarbone and came back within 2 weeks and kicked 6!!! Jack on the other hand partied too hard in summer and didn't come back in shape. Jack cannot be trusted when he is not "kept in line" whilst at the club. This comparison is utterly [censored]. Sorry I know your quite a new poster but in my opinion your view is right off the mark.

An ambitious opening ambit! They selected him @ pick #38 ie late 2nd round/low 3rd round, has played a handful of games in two years and has application issues. Hard to argue he is worth a pick better than around #40. If mfc agree to more than what Freo gave up for him we have rocks in our heads. He is no Hibberd or Melksham to go for a mid/late 20 pick.

Yep, the stay in Victoria was really firm from his manager, the stay at Dees was more what the manager would say when playing a straight bat, it didn't have the same conviction. That's not to panic anyone, I read it as family means a heap to Petracca so his manager couldn't foresee a time Petracca would choose to move away from the family - EVER. Which means Adelaide would never be possible. That's all. A Manager would not say a player would NEVER EVER consider changing clubs, that's kind of destroying part of their negotiating power.

It is for me, if it is the one that wins us a flag.

That article he posted is from a rubbish site looking for clicks. Not only that but it's already been posted, so 'passing on what he has heard' is him just copy and pasting an article of no substance. I wish people would check this stuff out before posting. It would make life so much easier.