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I was at the game yesterday and this (last hour) has been the first chance I've had to read this thread. There are two things I'd like to add to the discussion: Firstly, it was amazing to see three loose Melbourne players in our forward fifty when a couple of years ago we had trouble getting the ball inside fifty. Secondly, I want to praise Jesse Hogan for his character during an incident before the game. During his goal kicking warm up, he kicked a ball that hit a child in the crowd. The child went running off into the crowd to his parents while Hogan dropped his practice and followed the child to make sure he was okay. Hogan from the fence, called over the child to speak to him which he did. Not only during play is Jesse a champion. P.S. Go Dees!

well they probably had no cash, quite understandable

Tommy Mac is a highly rated younger defender and not far off being an AA... All this garbage talk about him is nit picking...yep he will make some mistakes but I'm happy we've got him. Anyone seen the Collingwood defenders, Reid very average but a very important player, Brown now at St Kilda a terrible kick and premiership player, Chip "Mr up & under" Frawley. What about one of the best kicks in the game Bob Murphy coughing it up last week. Rance used to be a disaster but Richmond would be a bigger disaster without him. Some of our supporters have become a laughing stock the way they carry on about Tommy Mac at games and on here, it's actually embarrassing to hear media commentators talking about it. Turnovers happen, we would like to eradicate them but it's not going to happen. There are 2 teams playing and sometimes the other team gets the ball.

I've now seen Lewis twice park himself in the vicinity of full back and stop goals at points in the game where we might have started to lose some momentum. This kind of experience is invaluable. Still can't believe our luck.

I'm just happy he's still playing for Melbourne, there were more than a few who wanted to trade him last year and regarded him as just trade bait. Salem will be a star I said it then and I'll say it again, questions over his hardness are just ridiculous, he gets his own ball and uses it better than most in the side, that goal he kicked from the wrong pocket yesterday shows that.

After a decade of a firmly fastened lid it is off in my household. We have a vastly superior side to four years ago and I am confident we will win 13+ games in 2017. Sorry a small delay I just threw the lid over the back fence. GO DEES.

Who are you ???? ???

No, you're wrong and you're another poster who's bias is quite apparent. Any turnover or clanger in any part of the ground can result in a scoring opportunity for the opposition. The chain of possessions that can result from a mistake in the forward line is a case in point. Even a missed shot at goal from a very gettable opportunity is a good example. If all the clangers & turnovers from all our players were highlighted then you'd have a point but like many here, you'd rather be lazy and highlight the scoring opportunities that don't involve longer chains of disposal. The levels of bias against Tom McDonald is ridiculous for the above reasons. It's you and the likes of you who need to go back and watch the games more closely. Besides all that, when considering the gamestyle that the coaches are asking Tom to play, it's small wonder he doesn't turn the ball over more ... unless you demand 'lace-out' on every occasion. A player who calls for the ball has an obligation to get it too - if you've played the game you'd know that. He's your player, start giving him the support that he deserves. Lose the hate.

I thought it all the more admirable when one considers that it was Brendan Bolton, Carlton coach. Sportsmanship.

Macca I'm with you on Tommy. Has his days but I also noticed Lewis miss a simple pass yesterday under no pressure, Vince turn it over on a kick out and Jones miss a simple target early. If we had a different Board for each player we could list their mistakes and Tommy wouldn't be the worst. Just look for the Tom McDonald take a good hard look at yourself thread Dazzle started last year and as you go through it you'll notice a change of heart. I think Tommy is always a bit rusty at the beginning of the season but I've not got a worry in the world about him. I'm surprised at the total positiveness after yesterdays game. I thought it was a bit like the Brisbane game last year that we won by 10 goals. I thought we were just going. Gawn was pretty quiet, Weed has taken one contested mark in two games, Harmes and AVB just went, Stretch was quiet, Johnson unsighted, Spencer failed to follow up on last week and ANB is also below AFL standard. Smith is very enthusiastic and I'm a fan but he was fumbley yesterday. That's just my take. We were killing them at quarter time but didn't make much headway after that, particularly in contested possessions and disposals. We had a couple of avenues to goal and they didn't and it showed. IMO there is lots of room for improvement and the game wasn't nearly as impressive as last week. I agree with Pro, we won by our minimum margin and if we were on our game as we should have been we'd have won by 100 points. But the positives, of which there were many, were the pressure we applied to Carlton, Melksham who I thought really played well in the second half, Hogan putting fear into all those around him, Oliver for his continued excellent play, Petracca for starting to really impose himself, the defence working as a team and the generally very good performances of our older brigade. I liked Viney forward and if he had kicked straight he'd have had 4 or 5 and Hoges in the centre will be interesting. I think we really need Garlett back and Tyson, Watts and Kent will make us much better. I like Frost but how does he fit in? And as others have said it's almost inconceivable that Jetta struggles for a spot but he is. I was warned about it but I didn't believe it. Now I do. WCE looked very good early yesterday against Freo and I'll be interested to see how we go in a couple of weeks against a team I think is one of the rare "certainties" for the 8.

Wouldn't have thought Tommy Mac would drum up so much conversation after a 9 goal win, but here we are. Defensively, he's terrific. Get's led to the ball on occasion but is only rarely beaten in one on one situations, and he is deceptively quick off the mark as well. It's not often you see a bag of goals kicked on him. What it comes down to is his decision making. His kicking is not necessarily that bad, but he almost backs himself too much and at times says to himself 'I can pin point a pass to a teammate 40 metres away through 4 opposition players', when really he should just look for the outlet up the ground to a 50/50 contest. It's made to look worse than other turnovers as they are in the back half where the damage is far greater. If he learned to ignore the 'riskier' kicks, especially the ones where he looks to bring the ball in board and you can't help but look away in fear, then discussion around his disposal and 'clangers' wouldn't happen.

Tom McDonald in particular is far better than a lot give him credit for. When you take chances you make mistakes occasionally. People remember one or two mistakes a game and think that is indicative of him as a player.

How rediculous was the tap on from petracca on the wing didn't even have to break stride

Watching the reply - I'm pretty sure Spud Frawley thinks ANB's name is Neil Bullen.

THE LID IS BACK - LET'S KEEP IT ON by George on the Outer It was only a pre-season practice match despite what some may think, but the result and the way that Melbourne comprehensively demolished a near full strength Carlton side, makes it very hard to dampen expectations among the supporters. The real contrast for the game was the style of play. The 2017 Demons play the same hard-at-it type of football that won Footscray a Premiership, and Carlton simply do not. The result was a one way game as Melbourne in each and every quarter simply was ferocious at the ball and opposition players. Carlton was never allowed a free rein, as Melbourne players attacked them en-mass and then when they had finally wrested possession from the Blues, there were Demon players aplenty around as options. The number of times that Melbourne took the ball from one end of the ground to the other without Carlton so much as being in the contest as it moved up the ground was lost. And the 0.17.14 final tally could have been so much more. Now some may question why the Demons didn’t put the cue in the rack at half-time, because it was all well and truly over by then, and there is always the risk of injury to critical players. But thinking about this after the match the answer became more apparent. This is the no mercy approach that we as supporters have been longing for. This is now a relentless, fierce, no half-efforts or take the easy approach team that Paul Roos and now Simon Goodwin have been building. We don’t slack off. And Melbourne plays Carlton in Round 2 of the season proper so what better way to send a chilling message to them? Now I could wax lyrical about many players with a game like this - and with a long bench to run there wasn’t the same fatigue factor that is present in a normal AFL game. However, for starters, Christian Petracca showed just how good he is with a four goal haul, including a ripper from the boundary. But it was his 10 contested possession in a total of 19 and his six marks that made him stand out. Carlton simply had no answer to him. Up forward Jesse Hogan was the Hulk. He is simply brutal and recorded three goals against his name for the game. We also saw Goodwin using him in the middle a number of times, and what a frightening prospect that will be for opposition teams? That and the continuous parade of tough, hard midfielders that Melbourne now has at its disposal. With Nathan Jones and Jack Viney leading and Jordan Lewis as back up, the opposition never get a rest with Bernie Vince, Clayton Oliver, Angus Brayshaw, Petracca and now Christian Salem to throw into that mix. Then it all starts again. Salem was a real highlight as no-one expected him to be playing mid-field. His 21 touches and seven contested possessions showed that he can and has obviously been developed for this new role. Best of all he has the vision and situational awareness that Lewis and Oliver also possess, such that they know where the ball is going before they get it. And then they deliver precisely and effectively. What a change has now occurred. Just a couple of years ago Nathan Jones held everything together on his own in the middle. Now he has an army of brutal assassins around him, and he has the pleasure of sitting off to the side a little more rather than being hammered week in and week out. As a result we will see much more of him and also preserve his career for longer. Oh, and I forgot about Max who had a normal day at the office - 19 hitouts and two goals. Having the luxury of being able to rest in the forward line while Spencer took the ruck role gave the Carlton defenders nightmares. The same situation will probably not happen in the season proper, as Spence is simply at a level below, but he was probably equal to Kruezer on the day, given his time on the ground, so not a bad back-up. West Coast in WA is the next JLT Community Series game, and there are plenty of players pushing for selection. What will the coaches want to do with a decent break before the first game proper? We can only wait and see, but for now it's time for a break - THE LID IS BACK - LET'S KEEP IT ON! Melbourne 0.5.4.34 0.9.5.59 0.12.10.82 0.17.14.116 Carlton 0.1.2.8 0.3.5.23 0.7.6.48 0.9.8.62 Supergoals Melbourne Nil Carlton Nil Goals Melbourne Petracca 4 Hogan 3 Gawn Salem vandenBerg Viney 2 Kennedy-Harris Neal-Bullen Carlton Casboult Pickett 2 Cunningham Curnow Lebois Thomas Weitering Best Melbourne Petracca Hogan Viney Jones Gawn Salem Vince Carlton Simpson, Gibbs Marchbank Kreuzer Injuries Melbourne Nil Carlton Gorringe (leg) Reports Melbourne Nil Carlton Nil Umpires Schmitt Ryan McInerny Glouftsis Crowd 7,256 at Casey Fields, Cranbourne

Salem is absolutely a midfielder. Its laughable that people say he doesn't possess hardness.... You've obviously been watching a different Salem, he's strong at the contest and his skills are superior to Jones, Viney and co. I guess it's yet to be seen whether he possess' the consistency to win enough football through the midfield but I'm genuinely excited by his skill set. The guy is improving and he looks a natural goal kicking midfielder.

I too was stunned that there are no corporate boxes and champagne on arrival.

Are we better off with Tom in the team, the way he plays today, or out of the team ? i think we know the answer.

Could not agree more Wb. If he is our worst player we don't have much to worry about.

Yeh nah look. One thing that is consistently annoying is the misuse of stats and in this case, the clanger stat. A clanger is a direct turnover to an opposition player, a free kick against or a dropped mark or fumble. What is of equal annoyance, is the fact that there are plenty of mis-kicks resulting in non-direct turnovers that are not included as clangers. For example: A kick that gets to its identified target but not on the full, resulting in a play-on and immense pressure for the player who is now in possession of the ball. Any mis-kick that doesn't result in a direct turnover, (ie on the chest of the opposition player) is not counted as a clanger. Nobody is disputing Tom's strengths. So why dispute his weakness? Go back and watch the game and tell me how many times Tom puts his team mates under unnecessary pressure after making an effective spoil/defensive act or gains possession of the ball in the backline. Whether it's playing on when he doesn't need to, executing poorly or making the wrong decision, he does it too often for my liking. And the best teams will absolutely make us pay for it during the season if he doesn't calm the fark down.

Classic MFCSS. Melbourne does well in the pre-season - "don't read too much into it". St Kilda does well in the pre-season - "I'm concerned about how good St Kilda looks".

Casey Fields is a pathetic venue and all things considered I'm pleased with the performance. It's not easy to shine there and I truly can't remember any player ever "starring" at that joint. Really pleased with Petracca's game and felt it was a bit of a break through for him Oliver is getting closer to dominating games. The McDonalds will have "McDonald" moments, but their value is immense.

Where he played yesterday

A bit surprised that no one's commented about Hogan's spells in the midfield. Thought he was really effective there on a few occasions.

Is he the only player on our list who makes the odd error or is it just Tom? By my reckoning he doesn't make any glaring errors in half the games he plays. The bias & group-think that goes on here is astonishing at times. I know at least 8 demon fans who don't post on this site (or anywhere for that matter) and none of them have the McDonald bros in the gun like what goes on here. I'm convinced that many are just waiting for the smallest of errors and hey presto, they invade the game-day thread like a army of angry ants. It works like clockwork.

Petracca's marking superb. Good to see him kicking goals too. We smacked them and there were plenty of reasons to expect that, but we haven't been able to consistently deliver the expected. There's a lot of decent teams competing for finals but there's also a dearth of great teams. The sky's the limit this year.

Salem is one of the highlights of this preseason. A bit like Montagna, relentless quality.

There was nothing wrong with his defensive efforts in 2015. He held Charlie Cameron to 3 touches in a game against Adelaide over there. He struggled last year but it became obvious his thyroid was playing up. I've got no doubt if he's fit he can go back to half back and defend against the right opponent. I'd play him in whatever the best position for him to stay healthy and develop as a footballer. To me that's probably on ball for maybe 40% game time, a bit of a stint on a wing and then enough time forward to not be gassed. The midfield to half back rotation is a big work load for a young player. Once he matures I expect he'll shift between on ball and half back.

Good point Wyl ... yesterday we were at times a bit clumsy entering our forward line. It's the main reason why we didn't win by a lot more. I'm not upset about only winning by 9 goals but the margin flattered them. And it's not often that we get to say that. Working our way into better scoring opportunities often requires patience but not necessarily by holding up play. Our running patterns and running routes that our players took yesterday was something we haven't seen a lot of previously. It had a professional look about it.

You could be right there about the Blues and bruise free footy. Its hard to know how Carlton are travelling right now. I know they won't be looking at finals but it was hard to gauge their level of interest in this game. We smashed them in contested footy and clearances which I believe the Blues pride themselves at. Cripps wasn't playing but we absolutely belted them. What stood out for me (I haven't re watched the replay yet) was the ball movement and decision making. I am very impressed. Not to mention we were missing Tyson, Frost, Watts, Kent, Jetta, Garlett (I think that's it haha) who I believe are best 22. It's great to have this kind of depth. I know it's pre season and I am not get carried assay (round 1 is going to be a huge test....) but you can't help but get excited by what you're seeing and hearing at the club.

No doubting it's a first world problem, however I don't think it's unreasonable to expect EFTPOS facilities at anywhere charging over $5 in 2017. Get with the times.

Thanks for yesterday's gift MFC but after so many years of abject failure I'm not exactly practiced in the art of keeping the lid on and my first test comes tonight when we go out for dinner and two of the people at the table will be Carlton supporters. How do I go about keeping the lid on? Do I mention yesterday's game at all or do I just feign ignorance about it and start a discussion on Donald Trump's latest escapades?

Played coached and watched footy all over Australia Casey not up to providing for a crowd of more than a few hundred It needs lots of upgrading if its to be Demons second home

You must have watched a different game to me. I thought Port were absolutely putrid in the first half and their game supports my theory that last year wasn't and aberration, we'll see them continue to slide under Hinkley. They improved on their woeful skill execution after half time, but I think the problems with their decision making is due to the game plan. Their bottom six are pretty ordinary and while guys like Westhoff, Hartlett and Dixon are serviceable they would want to have more impact for what they are getting paid. I liked Jack Steele's game for the Saints, but I didn't see anything we haven't seen before - McCartin looks to be developing (but Petracca will be better), but their older players are looking very old now. I would be surprised if they played all of Riewoldt, Gilbert, Montgana, Armitage and Dempster round one. Carlisle and Brown help structurally down back, but naturally I like our list better than theirs and I think if you are going to shake some monkeys off your back then round one is the best time to do it.

But the differences are quantum. The way we're playing is far superior and if you remember the Dogs game they played virtually their seconds team with 15 of their best 22 out and we came back from 19 points down at 3/4 time to win. The results may be similar (thus far), but the performances are markedly different.

If Tom was an A grade player we'd know it and we'd be talking about it. What I do know is that he gives his absolute all and is far & away our best tall defender. I'd give him a B - B+ rating but that's not a slight on him. If all our defenders were as good as Tom we'd have the best defence in the league. If you want Tom to be pure A grade then you're probably going to be disappointed. Me - I like his style and I rate him as a top-notch defender. But not perfect. And his brother is getting better & better. Those who wrote Oscar off before he was ever given a real opportunity are a bit gun-shy now.

Well I played most of my footy at CHB so I guess that makes me slightly biased For the record Tom McDonald had 1 clanger and it came when the game was in the bag. I clanger in a 9 goal victory. And I lost count of the amount of effective spoils he made. And that's his main job. Jones had 5 clangers, Salem 4 & Viney 3 ... and all 3 players played very well. Joel Smith had 4 clangers ... Melksham, Vince & Oliver 3 each but again, we're never going to play a perfect brand of footy. You need to start judging all our players in the same way that you judge Tom McDonald. You'll make more sense then, dazzle.

Just finished watching the replay. We played some seriously good footy, albeit against a poor Carlton outfit. Blues fans would hope they won't be that bad this year, but they looked out of their depth all day and we did what a good side should - put them to the sword. The one thing I took from this game is that the discussion over who plays over someone else is almost a moot point now. We have depth all over the ground, so if someone like Jetta were to miss Round 1 for someone like Melksham then no one should be disappointed. I'm not saying that will happen, but we have good players all over the ground now and we should have tremendous confidence in the side that is picked. There will be plenty of unlucky players who miss out against the Saints. It's exciting. Our young players look fit, strong and ready to take the next step and they are well supported by the veterans of the side. Melksham and Hibberd add further experience and some class to the side, while our game plan as a whole looks the goods. In the past teams would cut us open on the rebound, but there were many times I noticed that the Blues would rebound to the wing or half forward and end up having nowhere to go as we had cut off all their avenues. That, to me, is one of the big positives. All in all we rolled an average side, but that average side were spanked by a very good side. I can't wait to see this team continue to grow and improve.

Why this unhealthy obsession that requires making comparisons about everything that happens with the Neeld era? Most of the time the comparisons are remote and irrelevant which indicates these people are acting out of spite, stupidity or both. Just build a bridge and get over it.

I reckon I've deleted more posts than I've made over the years. If you expect me to remember every person who has earned points over 12 years of moderating then sorry pal, but you have absolutely no idea. Don't reckon I'll forget you from now on though.

Just watched the replay too and I have a feeling that Weid will be a very good player for us, I'm looking forward to seeing him develop throughout the year. He will get more involved and start to clunk a few marks after he gets a few more games under his belt.

Just finished watching the game and the thing that most impressed me was that we played FOUR quarters of football. We kept the pressure on even in the last 3 mins of the last quarter when the game was well and truely done and dusted Great to c hopefully it continues into the season proper.

There is one issue that has come out of this game... Where's Joeboy and his three word player analysis?

In my opinion there appears to have been lot of development with regards to the younger players as well as the style we are playing. Petracca, Hogan, Oliver and even someone like Smith appear to have become better players over the summer & probably still have a couple of Gears left or higher level to go to. Apologies to some other players that I'm sure I would have missed. Last year we were grinding a lot of games out & our contested brand of footy was what was winning us games from memory? Our attacking play was better but not looking like it does at the moment. That contested brand is still there but Goodwin has added another dimension to our attacking play. Our kicking patterns have changed and the players now appear to be under instruction to take more risks & kick on many different angles rather than a predictable pattern. The side also has the additions of Lewis, Hibberd & Melksham this year. Which has made us a lot more experienced side with a lot of depth. I get what you are saying & it's hard/impossible to predict the future. But I think as supporters we should be expecting to play finals & perhaps even play deep into the finals. I think the club should as well to be honest. If you don't have the vision to succeed then it makes it pretty hard to get to that point in my opinion. Hopefully they don't prove me wrong this year! ?

Loved the harassing, the pressure, the smothers, the tackling, the hard ball gets - while still playing an attractive style of footy and kicking plenty of goals. They are playing a finals brand of football.

I'm with you skinny - lack of eftpos at significant venues or events is a [censored] joke. I rarely carry cash unless I'm doing err... "business" at establishments like the GAT.

I used eftpos in Kandahar in 2008, probably less dangerous there than Cranbourne as well.

That was some of the best football I've seen Melbourne play in a very long time. Practice match or not that was four quarters of sublime football.

In thisday and age no eftpos is ridiculous. Wife does markets and even we have mobile eftpos pay facility. Agree with Dieter, very poor, last century thinking.

Who plans their day in 2017 to the extent that one must assume that an AFL fixture is played at a venue that doesn't have eftpos facilities? I can understand it in an under-age suburban competition but there were thousands of people there.