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Was there from about 10 until 11:15, with a wander to go get coffee in the middle. Craft session. So really quick cycling through a range of drills. Some divided by positions, other a mix. Missed (by me): Dom, Nev (saw him leaving), Kent, Brayshaw, Ben Ken? Rehab: ANB, Hannan. At times:Flippers, Mitch King Hibberd was held out after about 11. Couldn't tell if it was his knee or some other issue and didn't see any incident. Inside 50 kicking seemed a focus of a lot of drills that had varying ways to test it. There was a drill where 2 players would gather the ball, spin round and kick to a lead, it's on the clubs instagram. There were midfield stoppage drills that then had the players streaming forward to kick inside 50. And drills where the defenders would get the ball out then the forwards would take over and take the ball the other way. All 4 rucks did a fair bit of work with Stafford, but they weren't competing against each other. The mids did a fair bit of clearance work with umpires present to bounce the ball. Hogan did go in to this drill at various stages although my focus was on the forwards at that time. I'd say they'll put him in there as a way to get him in to the game and to take him from certain opponents. Matched up with even numbers probably 8 a side they practised getting the ball out of deep defence using short kicking and things got a bit ugly. They had an umpire calling marks and play ons and there were a few turnovers. They were really restricted in the space and using only short kicks for the drill. I expect the actual game plan will call for a lot more counter attacking and long kicking, particularly switching. Individual observations: Salem - looked really composed today, used his body well to win a marking contest, ran the ball forward with speed to evade pressure, nailed a goal from 50 on the run. Spencer - not to derail another thread but he did look good, racking up touches and making smart handballs on the spread Oliver - for the brief bit of the clearance work I watched he was wreaking havoc Maynard - another who got a few nice quick handballs off in traffic. I think he has vision Lewis - his kicking inside 50 is where he stands out Watts - his leading and ability to create space inside 50 is a cut above. I want him up the ground to get the ball but he is dangerous deep if he can find room and get delivery McKenna - a really nice ball user inside 50 Pedda and Vanders look fit, JKH looks sharp

From the Demons supporters at BF this is probably the best compiled list of Melbourne games available to be viewed on the net, including comments on the contents: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/the-melbourne-replay-archive.1144478/ This should make the off-season easier to endure....

Speed, hardness, courage, contested work, good mark for his size, kicks goals off half back... in his first year. Yeah, overrated.

I don't think people on here overrate Hunt at all. The way I see it is people are more excited about what he could become. I personally believe Hunt has shown more than Petracca in his short stint in the seniors. There are not many first season players (not counting his two injury riddled seasons) who can break lines, kick goals and take contested marks like he has done on multiple occasions. I don't believe the excitement is misplaced at all.

Weideman is coming along nicely and when he clunked a mark today (against T.Mac) the whole playing list seemed to converge on him in congratulations. By contrast, nobody seemed interested when Watts continually took marks and then roosted them through the sticks (such as we are becoming to take that for granted)! Other impressions today were that Hogan looked in a good place, Hunt hasn't got any slower and Keilty is a big unit.

#spencerfortheBluey

No, it is just you.

A serious case of "do as I say and not as I do". You similarly have the capacity to do what you accuse others of doing. No matter how boring you find the criticism. Your training reports are always appreciated, even if posters at do not agree with your player assessments etc. As for discussion on players in general. Even if critical in nature, we're all allowed to critique and discuss anything and everything we want to in regards to the football club and if a poster doesn't wish to engage in that particular discussion, they don't have to. But if they disagree with what's being said, they have the freedom of doing so. You, however, prefer to completely disregard and disengage with the content of what's being said, and prefer to try and dictate whether or not we should be allowed to say anything at all on the subject. Like some sort of MFC-censorship agency. M8. Keep providing your factual and informative player updates because they're great. Let others debate and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of players like Spencer. And everything will be rosey. PS. How many more posts do I need to clock-up before I'm eligible for 'Mod status'?

I know it's not as exciting but Gawn's marking when pushing back in defence was every bit as important as him going forward and stretching other defences. I don't want to lose that.

I think that's precisely what STMJ was saying to you.

Ethan, can I have my footy socks back? Edit:- On second thoughts, you can keep them.

I had a dream last night. Spencer in the ruck 60% , Gawn at FF (ruck 40%) and Hogan split between midfield (when Spencer rucks)and forward (when Gawn rucks). New ruck rules will help us.

Stopped in very briefly to witness Hogan training with the midfield! looking quite at home collecting the fruits of Gawn's tap work.

from http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-01-24/aflw-infographic-all-you-need-to-know

Thanks WW, VP, Saty and all other posters another excellent training Report, also enjoyed most of the banter and opinion pieces as well, even if I didn't always agree with content. I think that until the team and coaches purge our recent past of expectation and constant failures it will be hard for some posters to fully embrace the positivity that is being endorsed in the training reports but to be honest the quality of these reports have also gone up a notch in line with the coaching staff and improved player list now at MFC and I like it a lot. Go Dee's!!!.

Re: Jake Spencer and Jack Trengove Neither have had a real pre season for years that would have prepared them adequately for match days. That they have shown improved ability following an unbroken pre season to date should be a positive for the club and all supporters. Spencil is a big bodied ruckman who has speed, grunt and endurance and can be competitive at the highest level. How many clubs can boast 2 such ruckmen? How do we know if the FD is not developing a strategy around creating an imbalance on the ground and using Max and Pencil at the same time? How many opposition clubs would be stretched? There is a simplistic notion that modern footy is all about speed and spread. But really it is as much about creating imbalances on the field. Imagine Spencil or Max resting in the forward line and taking away Jesse Hogan's gorilla opponent or alternating off the bench so that there is always a rested ruckman on the ground or dividing the ground in two (back line and centre, forward line) and sharing the load.. Players are here to play roles for the benefit of the team, not impress the critics with their speed and skills. I recall that both played in the great victory at Geelong in 2015. Jack was a champion before his injury and deserves a fair go to prove his value again. This constant obsession with foot speed is becoming tedious. Spread does not rely on speed, it relies on having the footy smarts to be able to read the play and anticipate when to go and where before the opposition. So long as he gets to the right positions and gets there without an opponent, he can walk as far as I care. As for defensive speed, if finds himself on a faster player (which can happen to any player except Hunt) then it is up to the on field or off field leadership to make the necessary adjustment. That is what good coaching is meant to do. There are enough coaches to go around. Give Jake and Jack a chance and don't dismiss their prospects too soon. I hope they surprise.

I've never really had it 'looked at' per se, but I have for a while suspected I'm on the spectrum. General traits: I impulsively avoid eye contact when talking to people, especially in forced situations (passing each other in a hallway etc) I can't small talk, at all. I consider it lucky if I can sustain any sort of conversation, often. I am usually the first one to cross the line in to inappropriate conversations, unintentionally. I can't read between the lines. If you're not explicit, I probably won't understand what you're saying to me. I can't read body language. I have no idea if the person I am talking to likes me or is at all interested in what I have to say. It takes me a very long time to make friends. It would be unusual for me to consider someone an established friend within the first year of meeting them, though there have been exceptions. I can remember the number plate of every car I've ever owned, and can remember the number plate of every car any member of my family ever owned up until the age of about 15, and a few of my friends early car number plates. I know the current sequence of number plates (letter number number letter letter) in Tasmania and roughly where they're up to (I've seen 'F' number plates, 'G' ones are reserved for Government vehicles, 'H' ones should start appearing on the streets soon...). With the older style number plates (letter letter number number number number) I used to be able to roughly guess when a car was registered based on its number plate. There used to be a car that parked near my house with the number plate next in sequence to mine. I was disappointed the time we parked next to each other in a car park and I didn't have my phone on me to take a photo. Did I mention I notice number plates? I have an elephant-like memory in general, especially when it comes to numbers I am obsessive about doing things right, to the point where I will abandon anything I can't do near enough to perfect for my own satisfaction on early attempts. I scored 36 on the Baron-Cohen test. The questions that reduced my score were nearly all around imagination - I have a very vivid imagination, I *love* reading fiction, I have even dabbled in writing some. I guess that's the whole thing about it being a 'spectrum'.

Nope didn't cheat, I've read about the symptoms before and was quite shocked when I realised I had a fair few of them. Like you said, doesn't confirm anything but might look into this further.

Enough.....thread locked

This is a forum, some will agree with you some will not, that could be a once off, or all the time, but the nature of a forum is that everyone has an opinion. I'm not that sensitive that I have to argue with everyone that disagrees with me, it's simply not that important and I can't assume that I'm always right. If you feel the need to respond to every poster that differs from you, then good on you, but you have to also expect that that applies in reverse and those that differ to you have the same right of reply. Me, I just get on with it, my skins not that thin that I have to take umbrage over every comment that refutes my opinion, I'd suggest that you think about doing the same. This forum gets clogged up with petty, back and forth posts that do nothing for the site, try letting someone else have the last word, maybe you'll find it doesn't hurt as much as you thought it might.

Carry on as normal Saty you have my vote.

Unless Jones has grown hair, he is the one second from the left. The 3rd from the left has smaller arms than I do so that must be Daisy. So I think from left: Viney, Jones, Daisy and Watts.

Changed my mind, from right to left is Gus, Daisy, Jones, and the dude with the massive hair is Viney at a funny angle.

Doubt Roost It a troll. Been here for yonks. Some others here would be better described as such. I don't particularly subscribe to RI's view but Hunt is still much more raw potential than accomplished. Hope he hunkers down and rounds out his game, could be anything.

The entire team was toweled up in the VFL Grand Final!

If Gawn goes down, and we rely on Spencer to take ruck duties, we need to do these two things; 1. Spencer needs to compete. He doesn't need to dominate, just compete. Gawn was the number 1 ruckman in the league in 2016. He rarely lowered his colours, and dominated a majority of the finalists. Point is, they still managed to play finals with a ruck that didn't dominate every week. 2. If Spencer can compete, then our mids need to be smarter, and start reading the opposition ruck, especially now there is no third man up happening. Sharking opposition rucks is something that the good teams do, actually, even poor teams do it (see Carlton v Melbourne this year). This is where Craig Jennings (Game Analyst) and Ben Mathews (Stoppage Coach) will need to earn their money. While it would be preferred that Max didn't go down, we follow the above two points and there's no reason finals can't still be achieved.

Why? WHo was suggesting selling our stuff in the western suburbs. Surely you would get some sales by selling Melbourne branded gear in CBD locations where tourist frequent (eg Southern Cross Station, fed square). And whilst i respect your knowledge on this matter OD surely to goodness we could negotiate with the AFL to allow us to have some autonomy about where we sell Melbourne branded product. I mean it is in the AFL's interest we become more financially viable. One for a healthy comp but also because they would have tto pay us less equalisation money. They can put a man on the moon but we can't get our merchandise into a gift store at Flinder Street railway station? Puhleease.

I thought I recognised you.

I'm looking forward to the season proper so I don't have to continually encounter self-annointed "expert training comments". Sad really.

I largely agree with you, I remember getting excited when I saw James Strauss train the house down one day! I think what you can do is see if players are doing things in training that they haven't done in training before. I'm a bit of a Pencil fan, reckon he gets a bum rap from some. His kicking is now pretty good, I'd rather him having a shot for goal than Max. Pencil's ball drop is very close to his foot which makes it look awkward but quite reliable. He's also ok kicking around the ground where he has time but, like Max, hold on to your hat if he's under pressure. I think what Pencil was doing on Monday was moving much better and making himself a target which he's not done much in the past. But what caught the eye was the clean high marks he was taking but they were admittedly against much shorter opponents. Nevertheless they were clean and contested. He's always been quick for a big bloke and he's now much stronger than he was. If Max goes down everyone thinks we go down with him. I don't agree. Pencil will be competitive, he just won't be in the top category of rucks. But the point that is often made is we are now seeing with all players the benefit of proper development. Pencil has been at MFC under Bailey and Neeld before Roos arrived. But frankly I think the major influence is McCartney, wherever he goes young players flourish. And our list was just about a green field site when he arrived which means there was a lot of improvement in the older players as well. The observation that all players are improving is most likely correct.

That's ok chap, just find a bit boring when some criticise, they can just not read it, I have found topics and threads 100% better now I have compiled an ignore list or don't read after first line or 2 As I have said previously I try to provide colour in my reports as DS and WW do a superb job of providing drill detail If I find a new drilll might report that, coz I make a point of asking the coaches what it is for I think the talk about Spencer is because he was improving steadily but yesterday was like watching a new player, games being a different matter of course But it goes some way to showing that the proper development of players we have all longed for is coming to fruition We had a ruckmam in his late 20's, who we have all shaken our heads at, at some point, charging up and down the middle of the ground, providing a target and dishing of accurate handballs and kicks. and still doing it 2 hrs into the session, in 30+deg heat

I also look for who is in rehab as we know that despite the "golden ticket" knock preseasons are critical to the year. It's really encouraging that most have had good preseason, particularly the young blokes like Stretch, Petracca, Brayshaw, Hunt, Weideman, Harmes, AVB, Oliver and Hogan. I think it's critical that the good young players get preseasons. Older players can get away with missing a bit but for younger players it's so important. This, to me, is why Saty's information is so good.

I'm not condoning his personal use of peptides, but it doesn't say in there, or anywhere that I've read that he was involved in the administration of drugs to the players.

"Come writers and critics Who prophesize with your pen And keep your eyes wide The chance won't come again And don't speak too soon For the wheel's still in spin And there's no telling who that it's naming For the loser now will be later to win Cause the times they are a-changing" Robert Allen Zimmerman : 1964 <== How prophetic

I can't wait to get stuck into all those games from 2008 to 2013.

The key is scoring a TD or 2 early and then putting the Pats on the back foot. They are always going to come back at you though so a lot will rest with Ryan. They'll probably double-team Jones so you'll need your running game up and about. Both Freeman & Coleman are decent and if both get amongst it, that might throw the Patriots off a bit. Atlanta's all-round offense is tough for any defence. The match-up (the Falcons offense vs Patriots defence) will be New England's toughest all year (by a stretch) The reverse could be said of course as well. So then it boils down to what tricks Belichick has up his sleeve with his own offense ... and whether the Falcons defence can cope with it. .

It's hard to have it all in this league ... Belichick has got it figured though. Most of his players are expendable and they are often treated as straight-out commodities. It quite literally is all about the team - no prima donna's, no diva's, no big-heads. Gronk gets away with a little bit but his game-day face is ultra serious. However, Gronk being out means business as usual for New England. But here's the catch ... a team has to be great like the Pats with a QB like Brady in order for Belichick to then 'manage' the way he does - it's not like their system can just be copied. On top of all that, he's the master coach with a game plan that can be either new or change every week. An opposition team's coaching staff doesn't know what it's going to get. They are going to be hard to beat and Atlanta cannot afford any slip-ups. The Atlanta D-Line is going to have to find a way to get at Brady ... easier said than done of course.

Wells - you are a pessimist.......but I guess following MFC does that to one. Hopefully times are a changing.

Interested in Robert Walls on Woosha; Doesn't reckon he can coach. Had best starting four ever - Cox, Judd, Kerr, Benny. Won one Flag by one point.

ass long as there is equal representation of women, lgbtqiapk'ers, moslems, kooris and the ufu in this new order, i don't see any problem in this, biffo

That's the exact reason those rounds are used, to stop a person and so it doesn't continue through them and into someone or something else. With the amount of bystanders there were the response would be to ram and box in the offender's vehicle, not shoot at it. Victorian Police need a New York Police style shake up (they've already acquired their uniforms I believe).

Really? A bullet of that caliber wouldn't penetrate either of those? So they are just there to shoot people with then? Irony at it's finest. I also heard that he was stationary in a dead end street in yarraville for over 2 hours, not sure of the specifics, some guy on 3AW was yammering on about it and the cops sent the chopper out and he bolted into the city.

The police here use .40 (10mm) hollow-points. You'll get through a windshield if the angle is less than 45 degrees with that round. I know other states use 9mm, not sure about Victoria. Good luck with penetrating the engine bay or a tyre with a 9mm hollow-point.

You don't have to ram a car too hard to take out a front wheel. No steering. No more moving. The police were reactive. What the [censored] were they waiting for exactly? For him to pull up and say "i have had enough now...sorry" they had followed him for 2 hours FFS The evidence all came through on Smartphones. We all saw it. The Commanders absolutely stuffed up as did the Bail Judges and hiding behind a 6 month review won't save them. I used to work in Burke St, buy my cigarettes at that 7-11 store chilling.

I've been going through the games, which bring back memories. Also they show how I've forgotten players, as well as appreciate players that I didn't rate as highly way back then. Beveridge, Dyson, Clark for example.

You'd think Lacy will help the Packers in the run game once fit next year. Still can't believe we've made the Super Bowl... Did not think in year 2 of Quinn we'd be there already but we've taken advantage of an even NFC year. Funny I've watched a few NFL shows the past couple of days & how the same people who called our defense out all year are saying how much it's improved which it has over the home stretch/playoffs but like I wrote in here out defense was never as bad as the rankings suggested, when we got 2+ scores up late in games they'd go into preservation mode & give up junk yards & scores. It'll be interesting to see how the young group (4 rookies & 2 2nd years) hold up against Brady on the big stage

Today's Age has more police excuses and a discussion of policy. someone has been stabbed,another pensioner bashed and his car stolen. Take out your gun and blow the MF off the earth. Policy meetings will now go on for weeks with more parasites sitting around taking tax dollars. No wonder APEX gangs are having a laugh. Chris, The age article is so hilarious I can't read it with a staight face: "we were making split decisions on the run" They had hours to make the decision and never did. Policy ruined lives when one executive decision should have stopped it in Chapel St. Policy is only policy. All the talk in the world won't bring back those lives. The courts and cops are a complete joke and a political mechanism not doing its job- just there to make the sitting premier look good. We live in a society where talking is seen as an action- it is not. A carpenter cannot build a house by discussing plans alone. Why do we at for the police to carry guns- are they just decoration? Clearly yes. My Dad was a cop - he used his gun and had no PTSD about it. He would happily bash a villain, then drop him off at another station for another bashing. Why try reasoning with a rabid dog. The thin ,pathetic ,hand wringing,useless blue line of today is taking our money and are trained in revenue collection. The courts are corrupt- I urge you all to read up on Chloe Handsjuk. Don't make excuses- heads should roll.

George on the Outer concludes his "warts and all" analysis of each team's prospects for 2017 WHERE IT CAN ALL GO WRONG - THE WARTS AND ALL ANALYSIS OF EACH TEAM'S PROSPECTS [PART 3] The final group of six clubs; Hawthorn Finally for all football fans the rot has finally set in at Hawthorn. Winning 6 games by less than 10 points in the past season got them into finals, but it probably won’t happen again in 2017. Then to top it off they have dispatched their top 2 players in their B & F, and invested heavily in themarginal Tom Mitchell and an eternally injured O’Meara to replace them. (Not to mention Ty Vickery, who was recruited because….?) We now know that O’Meara won’t be available until Easter, so that plan is working well to date. But even if these 2 are equal in every way to Mitchell and Lewis, then the Hawks can only tread water. With Hodge, Burgoyne and Gibson all on the wrong side of 30, the Hawks are still competitive, but they are no longer the unbeatables. Port Adelaide If this team was a horse, the stewards would be out with the swab every time they make an appearance. They still have 17 players from their 2014 preliminary final side playing, but given back then they couldn’t take the next step, it is likely that those players were never good enough. And now it is 3 years later and we have seen a slow drop down the ladder. With next to zero trading done in the past 2 years and unable to convince others to take on Hartlett and his huge contract, Port will be much the same as last year, and the year before. Western Bulldogs When the team ethos is running into brick walls, there comes a time when the wall just doesn’t give way, like it did for them in 2016. Yes, they are the 2016 champions after coming from nowhere, but Hawthorn in 2008 did exactly the same. The following year the carnage cost the Hawks a place in the finals, and the Bulldogs luck in 2016 that got them through, has a habit of running out eventually. For a team that lost 1/3 of their games in the H & A season, and with Murphy, Boyd and Morris well into their 30’s, the future may not be a bright as they currently think. GWS Giants The AFL’s love child has been brought up on a diet of high draft picks and AFL inspired salary cap generosity. While they made it to a preliminary final this year, the rest of the competition is hoping they will choke again when they get to the big stage. Injuries are what is needed, particularly to their big man in Mumford. We saw what happened in 2016 to Freoand WCE when Sandilands and Natinui went down (we really don’t want anyone injured, but we sure as hell don’t want this made up team winning a GF). Perhaps new recruit Delidio can bring some of the Richmond mentality to the group? Or maybe Steve Johnson can find a new way to de-rail their progress. Adelaide After a stinker for them with the death of their coach in 2015, they continued to perform on-field under new management in 2016 despite of this big drawback. Trouble was, the team from the City of Churches forgot to do any trades or improve their draft picks to entice the talent needed to take that next step. After all holding your breath until you get what you want always works for Nick Xenophon….or maybe they just couldn’t get anyone to move to the place! Rory Sloane is unfortunately a one man band in the middle, and the lack of talent around him was good enough for him to get noticed often by the umpires in Brownlow voting. Emotion and an “us against those nasty people from the east” mentality probably won’t cut it for the coming season. Carlton Now the “forgotten” team of the AFL, their success of previous years was based on cheque-book recruiting. It has taken them years to realise good players are now drafted and with no change to this recruiting method, there seems little chance of them putting together a half-decent side. During the off-season Bryce Gibbs wanted out, so he will be filled with enthusiasm to have to pull on the navy blue jumper during the year. Their recruiting team set about filling the holes with further GWS bottom of the barrel rejects and discards, unlike other clubs who enticed more reasonable prospects to make the leap. The loss of Tuohy leaves their already fragile backline further exposed and without Walker in 2017, the forward line is even more vacant.

It's seargent pepper lonely demon land........

Nailed it.