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What struck me about the article is there is not one ounce of bitterness towards the club. Not that I would expect any from a top bloke like Jack. In fact the closing lines say it all about Jack: "Despite what he has been through, Grimes’ heart still beats true for the red and blue...I’m sure Melbourne is on the brink of having a really successful period, he said...I’ll still on the sidelines cheering for them and wishing my mates well.” Pure class.

Hulett back on. Melksham talking tactics with Salem. Petracca to Weiderman nice play which leads to Harmes slotting one from 40 with everyone looking on. Time for me to depart. Cheers all

Why is Vince anywhere near the backline? And training with the backs to this day. He killed it in the midfield and won the B&F. He's been ordinary at best in the backline. We've missed his shut down ability, accumulating, and instinct for timely goals when he's in the middle. His turnovers hurt more when he's in defence too. With the additions of Hibberd, Melksham and a fit Salem, it boggles my mind that we're persevering with Vince down back.

Oliver back in the fray. Trengove definitely moving better than last year... mobility back and foot skills good. Jetta cops one in the thigh. Melksham has looked sharp today. Big Max has outstanding stamina and running ability in these exercises.

Stretch played 15 of the last 16 games in 2016. Entering his third year, with another preseason under his belt, he's cemented a position in the best 22. As others have already said, he's rated highly internally and is only getting better.

I suspect Hirds drug cheating went further back than when he was coaching.

The lack of external love for Billy the kid is intriguing to me. I imagine it will be a different story this time next year.

Frost must be in there, he makes the McDonald brothers so much better it isn't funny. Also, they left out Stretch which is an oversight, I'd replace those two for Melksham and vandenFyfe.

I was one of many who thought it was a lucid moment in a terrible time when the two young Jack's were given the Captaincy of the MFC. Upon revision, it really just highlights how bad of a position the club was indeed in. Jack alludes to this. The burden he and Jack Trengove had placed upon them was clearly ridiculous. We as supporters were looking through our rose coloured Melbournefc glasses, thinking this was a stroke of brilliance and that the two young co-captains would provide the catalyst for bringing success to the club. How wrong we were. Grimesy was in the right place at the wrong time. A Demon tragic playing for the club he loves at the elite level - the stuff dreams are made of. Just a great bloke and I hope he has success with Hurstbridge.

James Hird is a despot a narcissist of the Dorian Gray caliber. He is disconnected from reality and a slave to his own very well developed ego. His children deserve compassion.,His children deserve concern, his children I feel for. All of James actions have been about James, even this last effort. Some may say Im deplorable for having this view. Others may share my clarity. James Hird is a victim of self. There are any number of AFL players who are also victims of his self . Not once has he ever taken ownership of his misdoings. He has at times feigned concern and yet all of his actions legal and otherwise were about James. He needs help....for his kids sake He also needs to be life banned from Sport

It's been discussed here before that a best 22 is fast becoming an esoteric concept as the list gets more depth to it. Billy Stretch doesn't seem to get much love externally and Wagner's debut year has obviously been dismissed as has Frost's late flourish. Not to mention Harmes' current form on the track. And that's prior to debating Pedersen ahead of Weideman and whether Bugg gets a look in over Vandenberg or Melksham and whether Joel Smith can be a smoky, Maynard or Hannan or Kielty or Tim Smith step up etc. The major point though is that the writer talks about the key issue for Goodwin being shallow depth after the core four midfielders he nominates. I think many of the so called experts will read it this way and may well be surprised. More importantly for us, we already know that Stretch's, Harmes' and Wagner's best is to be reckoned with and this should mean that whoever's on the park is performing.

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Hi Wrecker. The bolded bit is of great importance. Hird was the head coach, the first responsibility of any head coach is to the welfare of his players. If Hird had any doubts he had to make sure everything was fine, he didn't, in fact when Ried raised concerns about the program Hird went over his head to Robson to complain that the program was being held up. Not the move of a smart manager concerned for the welfare of his players. As head coach Hird is also responsibly for the conduct of all coaches, any failure by them is a failure for him too, that is why the managers earn the big bucks and get the bigger penalties. He failed here to. The other area he failed was his rhetoric about doing all the court appeals for the players, [censored], the players would not really have benefitted in any way from any of the court action taken by the club, it was all backside saving shenanigans by all involved. He could not have handled that worse. I wont go into his intent to cheat as it isn't clear enough either way. Although I do hold a view, it isn't strong enough to put on public record. All in all his experience as head coach is irrelevant, he was the head coach and from day one takes on certain responsibilities, he failed at those and failed miserably and should have taken the slap when it was offered.

Just back from training. Horrible to see Liam go down. I couldn't tell whether it was ankle or knee but he went down and stayed down for sometime before being examined and carted back to AAMI. The session was physically very demanding and different drills. WW has done a great job describing who was doing what. Hibberd and JKH in the main group and looking sharp. The rehab group don't look far away and were doing a range of contact drills. Standouts for me today were Max Gawn who just looks so fit, Oliver who was having no trouble with some of the running, AVB and Harmes who did well. Oh, and Hunt. Boy did he look good using his pace and skills. Hogan was also very good today along with the regulars like Lewis, Vince and Jones. Petracca and Brayshaw were also in everything and Petracca's field kicking was excellent. Any questions let me know.

Drove (crawled) past on punt road at 9:14am. Centre lane. Bus blocked my view. There were some men running around who looked like footballers. They were kicking footballs. One was Daniel Corss. He had a red MFC shirt on.

Wrecker I understand that you said you will not respond, but how do you account for the drugs that Hird took whilst coaching that were illegal for athletes, one even led to him suffering priapism for an extended period? He was experimenting with drugs whilst coaching and probably had been since Charters was his "personal coach" in his playing days. He was no pawn, he was the instigator.

Stretch will be a walk up start into our best 18 by the end of this season He brings skills that we desperately lack, especially disposal efficiency!

Given he was warned by the AFL very early in the piece as it was brought to their attention about his interest in many and various exotic 'potions', given it was his connection to the weapon that saw Danks come on board, given it was essentially His idea to create the program, given the texts between parties....yeah......Nah !

That is because they accepted responsibility because 'it happened on their watch' even if they didn't know/weren't involved. They did the honourable thing, fell on their sword and resigned. They and their families have moved on without stigma. James did not accept the 'it happened on my watch' principle, disclaimed any responsibility and decided to fight it tooth and nail. That was is right and his choice. And he has paid a heavy price for that choice but it was his choice. He and his family have not moved on.

Very sad it has ended up this way. That article shows what a humble, genuinely good person he is.

PS. The sledging Jack copped both as a Demon and when he got delisted was seriously unfair. The bloke is borderline Demon royalty.

Arrived 10 minutes late due to Bridge Rd Tram! Cool morning, no breeze, damp underfoot but no rain at the moment. All accounted for except Tyson, Kent and haven't noticed Garlett yet. JKH celebrating membership of the main group with flouerescent orange boots!

Hulett has been given the all clear. Melbourne Demons forward Liam Hulett escapes serious ankle injury

Best training report I've seen all year!

This is why I like Demonland. I love all the MFC stuff, but then you learn things. Like 666 in Roman numerals is actually all the numerals less than 1000 in descending order. And then a bit of parallel research tells me that 666 is also the sum of the numbers from 1 to 36 added together. What's not to like about Demonland?

I am unconvinced that either Weideman or Oscar McDonald are in our “best 22” at this stage. I am not saying that they should not play most games this season, as we really need them both to develop into bona fide AFL players.

I don't. I want them reminded of their drug cheating whenever they walk into a football stadium till the end of time. Hate the arrogant flogs with every fibre of my being.

The route cause of so many of the problems here, from the very first day this came to light. Until he does so, hard to see how he can/could move forward. Unfortunately.

Sometimes I just marvel at how they don't all end up with bits of them twisted off, snapped, and hanging from one last sinew. You'd think that all it would take is two players bound up in a wrestle, and another to bump them unintentionally and unexpectedly while going past, and by the time the ground gets involved it is hospital time. But there is some kind of deep human instinct for the 'instant release' at the critical moment. After all, almost all human wrestling and push-shove is between children who are quite close. Keep not breaking eachother, kids!

SEN is previewing each AFL club's best 22. This is their opinion on the MFC:- 2017 AFL PREVIEW: MELBOURNE’S BEST 22 B: Michael Hibberd, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta HB: Bernie Vince, Oscar McDonald, Jayden Hunt C: Dom Tyson, Jordan Lewis, Clayton Oliver HF: Christian Petracca, Sam Weideman, Dean Kent F: Jack Watts, Jesse Hogan, Jeff Garlett Foll: Max Gawn, Jack Viney, Nathan Jones INT: Jake Melksham, Christian Salem, Angus Brayshaw, Aaron vandenBerg

Afl website just changed there story from knee injury to ankle injury, journalism at its finest

Hulett injury has absolutely [censored] me off. He pulled himself out of a small group drill to have his left knee/ankle assessed. Hard to tell what exactly. Then he limped back to the sideline from the middle of the oval. Had a bit more assessment and ran some very slow run throughs at a long way below 100% intensity. All of a sudden he's back in the main group for match simulation training. He gets chased under pressure and tackled and his leg rolls under him and is down in noticeable pain and takes a while to get up and gets carried off. I just don't understand why in mid January you'd put a guy in to full match sim training when he's clearly not 100% and there hasn't been a great opportunity to test him? I get the desire to build more toughness in to players but this was silly. I'm angry.

Oscar's current update (13/1/17): "Oscar has really emerged again. We all saw really good snippets of Oscar’s progression last year. He’s bigger and stronger again, and has the capacity to run and still carry it. Oscar’s on the verge of becoming a very good player."

Goodwin emphasized "composure under pressure" several times. Team activity continues between half forward lines. Basically keeping off, 7 defenders v 10 ball carriers. Quick rotation between teams. I've been here for an hour now and the intensity is relentless. We will have a very fit team come season opening. This is why the rehab group will have a lot of catching up to do

Just watched a very impressive full ground activity consisting of four teams (main group divided into teams of 9 - 10 players.) Two teams on at any one time, one attacking, one defending. Objective was to take the ball from deep in backline to a scoring opportunity at other end. All players had to take the game on... no prop and stop... Teams had to work the ball through by hand and foot, not too much run and carry. When each team exited the field they were required to sprint back to the defense goals by way of the boundary line. Goodwin would meet them there for observations about their previous work. Leaders in each group would also discuss strategies with team mates. Lewis, Jones and Gawn were driving their teams to 'win'

As I said "Ginormous Ego" that still is clouding judgements!

I love Jack Grimes. Very proud that he played for this club. Very relieved he played 100 games for us.

Perhaps they should call it the 'ideal' starting lineup, ideal and injury free. They don't take into account the simple fact that many players literally emerge from the ether: look at Mr Hunt. Nobody except die-hard Demon fanatics even knew he existed this time last year.

Not sure if the following article is here. Pull it if it's already been linked. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/hurstbridge-recruit-jack-grimes-reflects-on-100game-afl-career-after-being-delisted-last-year/news-story/0f2897b340a2fa9564235bc2e5dc48cc

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I reckon to win a flag you need a good 35. Every side will have injuries and so on so depth wins flags

Agreed - there should be a 'next in line' or 'unlucky to miss out' list with each line on the field. The 'emergency' list would often provide this but it's regularly left out.

Getting old mate, he and chunk will both rotate through half back next year now we have some depth

James Hird is a victim no doubt about it!! He is a victim of his own ginormous never say die EGO! I believe that his inability to accept any ANY blame, responsibility, and apologise for bringing the game into disrepute and accept that the buck stops at the top is the catalyst to his current position. I actually have little pity for him until he can do this! His dulusionality is palpable! I hope his Club and supporters can move on. He might not ever!

Agree to an extent but when you look across all the lines there's some good experience and a nice age spread apart from the half forward line. I think we might see Pedo instead of Weideman quiet a bit. The time spent together during the pre season and the intensity of match play they've been practicing might help expedite the rate at which they 'gel' and result in added wins outside of many peoples expectations.

Jack Watts considered A grade. Loving it.

This arguing about whether it was a good experience or not when most of you don't know what you're talking about is getting to me worked up. How can you argue for the agaisnt when the players and the coaches have said they thought it was 1) the hardest thing any of them had ever done in their football careers (Including Lewis who was done some crazy stuff over the years) but 2) most believe was extremely beneficial to their personal development therefore the team development. I have a direct source to the mindset of the playing group, and I can tell you for absolute certainty this camp was indeed a good experience for the club.

This is all an attempt to get people to feel sorry for him so people will stop asking about his cheating lying scam, this all was a classic case of a clean skin thinking no one would think golden boy could do wrong, when stars are pot on a pedestal they believe everything the yes men tell them that they are better then everyone, and they can do no wrong.

He'd have played ahead of Rhys Palmer, Jacob Hopper and probably even Ryan Griffen in the Prelim last year against the Dogs. The Giants get Deledio, Stevie J (suspension) and a preseason in to some quality kids including Hopper, Kennedy and 3 first rounders so the competition would be tight. But I'd back Dom to hold the 4th inside midfield spot behind Ward, Coniglio and Shiel and ahead of a pretty broken down Griffen and the kids. i generally try to stay pretty measured about players in my training reports because unless they are young guys getting their bodies and confidence to the level required (Hunt last year, hopefully Brayshaw currently) or have had a drastic shift in injury or approach the improvement over a preseason is usually small. This injury sucks for Dom because what I was seeing at training was a guy who had significantly improved.

Clearly to be a great team you need great players and I think we have a lot of potential in this area - Gawn, Viney, Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver and Hunt would probably be my pick. We then have a cast of very good players - Salem, Watts, Tyson, Stretch, McD x 2, Kent, Weideman, Hibberd and Jetta. I've left out players like Vince, Jones and Lewis given their age. The lists above are not exhaustive but indicative. Then we have what I would call "bottom sixish". Two players that I reckon will play a large part in how good we become are Harmes and AVB. I've watched some of the replays from last year and these two played a much greater role that I thought. Harmes with his aggression and AVB with his strength. AVB came off a limited preseason and fought an ankle issue which stopped him becoming fit enough for stints in the midfield but on reflection I think he could be much more important than we thought. Of course then there are the unknowns. JKH is one I know the club has not lost hope in. Hannan and Johnstone may provide something and even Bugg and Kennedy could finally establish themselves. But AVB and Harmes are the two for me that could make a much bigger impact than many think. It's easy to pick Salem or Petracca because they have obvious talent at the top level. Harmes and AVB don't but I reckon they will both have a significant impact. And Wagner is another who could surprise but it's just hard to see where he gets a game.