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One only had to look at how well Wagner did in the B&F to see that he's highly rated within the club, especially for a first year player. And when he missed 2 games mid year with a knee he came back in immediately to the senior team and not Casey. He faded late in the year, but if one reads the tea leaves, especially with this mooted 2 year signing, there's a clear message the club sees a future. I don't currently have him in my best 22, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's in the club's. If he's been promoted it's for a reason. And I wouldn't water down those reasons.

Josh Wagner has signed a 2 year contract and has been promoted to the main list.

This is excellent news for me personally as I will not have to make another change to the Demonland Banner. Demonland will once again be proudly sponsoring Josh and Jayden Hunt in 2017.

Word on the street is Trenners has been working with a sprint coach and the plan is for that to continue through a large chunk of the pre season, giving himself every chance.

I ride past AAMI / Anderson St each day on way to work. I've seen Melksham 3-4 times doing some very hard running, repeat 250's and sprints up Anderson St - all on his own. Am sure their are many doing it, but he looks very lean and fit.

I'd have Trengove, Lumumba, Pedersen, Spencer, Vince (retired), JKH, ANB (traded), Garland (retired/paid out) all ahead of Wagner to not be retained on the senior list next year. That's 8 already and there's a few more other options. I can see the point of not upgrading Wagner, especially if Smith or White come on. But I also think Wagner is good enough to be around the mark at AFL level for a while and by upgrading him we get a number of advantages: 1. He can play without restriction 2. We rookie a kid instead of giving a 2 year deal to a pick 80+ 3. We can front load his new contract to spend more salary next year and save salary in 2018. 4. Josh gets financial security and peace of mind to develop. He doesn't have to overtrain or play injured, be shunted around positions or thrown in to the side late in the year to see if he's up to it. We believe culture is important and clubs believing in players is surely a big part of that.

I think it's more due to where our draft picks lie, Nasher. We obviously feel that we would gain more out of having Wagner plus another nominated rookie available to play all year, as opposed to Wagner playing as the nominated rookie plus pick 84 from the draft.

stick to your guns abe. your opinion is as valid as anyones.

I'm surprised; I didn't see the hurry as I see his position as one in very tight competition next year. Congratulations to him though. It's a good reward for a promising debut season, and the club obviously rate him.

Wow. This isn't even Sandra Sully with the late news. It's Sandra Sully dying of old age, and leaving a time capsule that was dug up 50 years later late.

"All on his own". That is instructive. Coming from a background in an individual sport, it has always amazed me how "herd like" AFL players can be in their pre-season training. However, it is the willingness of individual players to do things outside or away from the pack that can make a big difference. In short, to be self motivated and not just do what everyone else is doing on the training track. Remember watching the Hawks training pre-season many years ago and noticing that there were the pack animals and a minority of players who took it upon themselves to warm up, run laps etc before the fitness guy turned up with his whistle. No surprise that this minority were all great players, Michael Tuck being at the top of the list. Now Melksham may never be a great player but it is a good sign that he is going the extra yard.

He may well be picked up by a club in the NTL* *National Tunnelball League

Wagner>Pick 84

This thread is about Jordan Lewis, isn't it? Haven't we spent countless hours talking and written countless words about the other guy? I couldn't give a suff about the other guy and I can't see any good coming out of raking over old ground, we all have our opinion and that's not going to change. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing Jordan play in Demon's colours, he will add a further hard edge to our midfield and he knows how to kick a goal too, so that's got to help. He is a very important player for us, with his finals experience and not just a player who fluke'd a flag.

a fridge & freezer combo. Here is a pick of Kobe Farmer 2 proud parents & their boy. https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-A2vjCQRzGtG-nU1VBGwO14ffuml7MXgp9eamLE7aUR28ECjF

I'm more of a Barry Colon fan.

There's 40+ players on the senior list. You don't have to be considered "best 22" to get a spot.

Well deserved. His debut season seems to be very underrated.

^ I was told Viney did a mountain of work before he was required back at the club last year. He then became one of the better runners throughout pre-season and obviously it catapulted him into the season. He is simply that determined. Just like our skipper. You can always tell who has done pre-pre season work. And I'm hoping Salem, Brayshaw, Petracca and Oliver all come back ahead of what would be deemed as 'acceptable' condition come the end of November.

Lol Chucked in the towel after round 2 - check Worst football report card ever written - check Game preparation involves beer - check Arrested for making death threats - double check Delisted by the wooden spooners after 1 year - check Yep let's sign him up

Remind me, what did the doggies do???? Hmmm, Dees to beat Dogs by 5 points in a nail-biter. Hogan to kick his eighth after the siren. Jack Viney - Norm Smith medallist. Max Gawn - AA plus Brownlow. Severe beer shortage for several days. Massive hangovers, lost jobs, population boom. The Reverend cries for a week and gets entire upper body tattooed with a Melbourne jumper. Go Dees!

I believe we are absolutely burning up the track and it is the hardest preseason we have ever done.

You may notice that Abe and I are able to disagree and have robust discussion without hurling personal insults. Hint hint...

This guy has a fair bit of poise and alot of endeavour. Sure, we now have a few guys in his position but we're yet to see whether Hibberd or Melksham will provide anything after a year off and 22 is still young. I'm happy enough with this signing. Bring on 2017!

Must admit i didn't see this coming, he is behind a few guys for that half back position and already a mature age player, didn't see him playing in the 1's unless there were injuries. is the 2 year deal a minimum to upgrade a player? i would have thought 1 year was a better fit under the circumstances.

Thanks Josh, Good news.

It's hard to go past Enyaw's compelling argument of "he's a ruckman so he must be better than Spencer and he comes from the same country as Majak Daw" though, you must admit.

Stretch: Great work habits, pace and skills and should be a member of the side for a long period of time. Salem : super talented and hard at the contest, my only minor concern is injuries Bugg: solid role player but i think with our depth now he might find himself on the fringe of selection and need to go to a new level to get a consistent game. Kennedy: similar to Bugg, offers some AFL level weapons but inconsistent, time is on his side. Harmes: I really like Harmes, should improve again and be a regular AFL player AVB: just needs an injury free run at things and he should be a very handy addition to the side ANB: a long way back in the pecking order so he is up against it, but it's not impossible Trengrove: make or break year, i am backing him in to regain his early career form and play a role for the Dees, but odds would be against him JKH : rated internally, will be interesting to see if he can get an injury free run Wagner: good mature age pick, but falling further down the half back pecking order.

Well no ... some think that happened but when the story started doing the rounds some time after the trip it was just that Maxy chucked while on the trip and then it was while in the presence of the players before finally morphing into spewing while he was sleeping. Did it influence why he left the trip? There have been other reasons offered above such as a family illness. Did it influence why he left the club? Since there were $7.2 million other reasons I suggest that if it did then it would have had an infinitesimal effect at best. Not only that but in view of some of the goings on with characters like Toby Greene and more recently the scandals surrounding Lachie Whitfield, if he really cared about his club's cultcha then he would have been out of the place and in the Australian Boys Choir by now. As Saty wisely stated above, if you repeat something often enough, they'll believe you.

A few years ago we'd drool at the chance to pick up some of them, even trade fir them. Thankfully now we have moved beyond that.

To me AVB is the most important. We have lots of small middle men - Jones Viney, even Lewis and Vince are not big. Brayshaw and Oliver give us a bit of height, but for me the strength and height of VDB gives the greatest possibility for improvement. He can become our (swans) Kennedy.

Serious?

I'm really hoping Grimesy gets another crank somewhere. Other than that, I'm completely indifferent about it.

Stretch and Salem are class. Salem is a class above all of them, hopefully he gets his body right. The rest are handy depth. You'd shudder at them all in the same team, but each of them can easily fill a role when needed.

Looking at Chris25's picks above, we can now see why the MFC traded away the 2016 future 1st rounder to get a forward in Weidemann (196cm) Of those 42 players only 2 are taller, Todd Marshall (197, forward) and Tim English ( 203, ruck), with Harrison McCreadie (196, defender) equal height. Really, really smart thinking by the Recruiting team.

Terlich to be re-listed as a rookie, play round 1, go on the win the brownlow (55 votes), Coleman medal (114 goals), Goal of the year (bicycle kick from the back pocket), Mark of the year (climbs to the top of the goal post and jumps off to take a screamer while Franklin has a shot from 50), Jim Stynes Community award (donates his entire 5mil per year salary to charities around the world) Dees make the grand final. Terlich kicks 11 from the back flank and wins the Norm Smith after 68 disposals, 22 tackles, 32 marks and 11.2 Melbourne win by 1 point after Terlich marks it with his tongue at full back and unloads a barrel after the siren. wow that was fun to write

Not necessarily, Saty, it might be just that the expectations of being an AFL footballer are sinking in.

Apparently, Salem needs to win back a spot, even though he was our best player in the last game we played; while Melksham doesn't need to win back the spot he never had. Thankfully, Salem has 5 months to win said spot and funnily enough, Melksham has 5 moths to win a spot too.

For me the crucial ones are Stretch, Brayshaw, Petracca, Harmes, Kent, Salem, Oliver, Hunt and oMac. These guys believe and anything could happen. Ten games for the Weid. Would love another speedster in the draft that can put the wind up Stretch and Hunt. We win the flag in 2018!

I expect Weeds to remain at Casey for close to the first half of the year, there isn't a great need to rush him so keep developing him with time a patience. I agree with you regarding Watts, we've always know he had the talent in him and now that he's starting to show it he can keep pushing the boundaries of his abilities. But I'd like to see him spend less time in the ruck, while it's good to know he now has that experience I prefer Pedo as a second ruck. The questions will come when Weeds (hopefully) starts bashing down the doors, who do we play as second ruck to Max?

Pats Vikings Chiefs Keep forgetting to do my tips the last few weeks. Not a great season as a bears fan. They've stripped the roster to build through the draft with a defensive focus and almost every starter on the defense has been injured and half the offense has too. A total mess. The one highlight was the Hoyer looked was doing a fantastic job keeping the Bears in games without winning to facilitate a nice tank job and now he's injured, Cutler comes back to try and save his job and the Bears might just be dumb enough to keep him.

I fully expect Trengrove to be a different player next season. We all hear about how much difference a full preseason can make (i.e. Max Gawn). Trengrove had less than not having a preseason in the respect that he had to totally rebuild the strength back in a twig of what may pass for a leg. It was somewhat miraculous that he could even run, let alone be half competitive at VFL level. Without really knowing the guy, I get the impression that Trenners is an absolute professional in his dedication to training and should give himself every chance. If he can have the sort of Max Gawn impact after a full preseason, I'll be happy with that.

A mangled, metallic-coloured mouthguard so he can take the field looking like Jaws from Moonraker.

Does the pamphlet give a passing mention to the Bledisloe Cup?

Thats a big call to assume he did not want the ball based on the view of the play. Agree he did not expect it to come back to him and had ran the 2-3rd the length of the ground and had decelerated before the ball pinged back. It appears more surprise when it came back and then he has to accelerate again and delivers a haphazard kick under fatigue. He started off slow but was rarely beaten in the last 8 weeks and hardly made an execution error.

From what I've seen of Richards as a defender I think he's much less developed than OMac, in fact he had to go forward and wait for injuries there to get an opportunity, while they had injuries in the back half (to his brother initially) and he didn't get a gig. I think it's universally acknowledged that we sacrificed a lot for OMac to be in the team ahead of Dunn and maybe Garlo, just to get some experience. It's a position where pre-season and Casey games will only get you so far, you need to play against the best to get better yourself and I reckon after his 3rd pre-season he's got the potential to improve as much or more than anyone on our list.

Predictions for 2017 Ladder Position: 9th - Make no mistake, we're certainly on the rise. But even with the additions of Lewis, Hibberd and Melksham still think our team is about 30-40 games experience off reaching the top 8. Wouldn't complain if we do though! Best & Fairest: Jack Viney - It's clear that the coaches absolutely love him. I still think that there's quite a bit he can improve on in his game but I'm predicting that it'll be back-to-back for Viney in 2017. Runner Up: Dom Tyson - Dom played some fantastic footy during the second half of the year and was probably our most consistent performer for a large part of this section of the season, resulting in placing fourth in 2016. He has this uncanny knack of kicking crucial goals as well. I'm thinking it could be a close one between Dom and Jack in the race for the Bluey next year. Leading Goalkicker: Jesse Hogan (58) - No real surprises here, and 58 seems a suitable number for a kid about to enter his third real season of AFL with the . I think we'll see a more consistent Hogan next year as well considering he's now signed on and doesn't have to deal with the constant associated speculation. Who Goes To The Next Level?: Angus Brayshaw - I couldn't help but feel sorry for Angus this year. Around midway through the season, nothing seemed to go his way. Despite that, he still showed glimpses that every bit as good as what we saw back in 2015. With another pre-season under his belt, I'm tipping that Angus will have a breakout 2017. All-Australians: Jack Viney - Viney looked nearly a lock for the squad around a third through 2016. It was around when he broke his knuckle during the Port game that he fell a bit out of form that probably cost him his spot in the initial 40. I'm not going to lie, I think Viney is going to have an absolute belter of a season in 2017. Max Gawn - Back to back for Max? Why not? He seems positively unrivalled when he's at his peak. However, I think opposition teams are now aware of him and are more likely to put more work into stopping him and the god like influence he has around the ground. Best Rising Star Chance/Best Young Player: Sam Weideman - I'd hardly expect him to win, but if he plays 10-12+ games next year, there's a very high likelihood he'll pick up a nomination. At this stage, I'd tip that he's going to be our only nomination. Suprise Round 1 Selection: Joel Smith - Having seen this kid play once or twice in the VFL, it's clear he has something special about him. He has pace, good skills and can take a great mark like his old man. I remember someone on the forum likening him to an Easton Wood type player. It's a long shot, but he is certainly capable.

I recall in Goodwin's appearance on 360 he singled out Stretch for his professionalism and someone who requires less hand holding as a result. It was an openly glowing appraisal. I reckon he'll line up in Round 1. afl.com.au not even listing Stretch as an emergency is a clueless omission. He's certainly ahead of Harmes.

so don't use him as a tagger. vince was the obvious tagger for danger/