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Can I suggest we show a bit of respect to our players and don't slag off at them. Surely we can discuss someone leaving or a trade, without rubbishing a guy.

I would say there's a role for at least one of our two best players at Casey, especially considering we've had an injury list of basically zero all year.

I was critical of this bloke in the first half of the season, but he showed fantastic resilience to turn around his year, and his second half of 2016 has been sensational. Credit where it's due. Good write up of him today here: http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/how-midfielder-dom-tysons-huge-improvement-has-helped-take-melbourne-up-the-ladder-in-2016/news-story/44eb9c0665e855a6cd77d079716b8e27

All you Dawes bashers out there need to take a good hard look at yourself. The bloke has no obligation to reject what we offered him so judging him based on his high wage is plain unfair. If your boss offered you a ridiculous pay rise would you reject it because you didn't think you were worth it? He has played the majority of his games at the dees on one leg and goes as hard as anyone, despite his conditioning. He is not the most talented player to grace the afl, yet after last weekends effort it should be clear why it is fairer to judge a player on effort rather than outcomes.

Do you have some kind of notification set for whenever ProDee posts? Amazing how quick you are to respond, and look to argue with everything he says.

Heffernan was bog average when he played for us. Get your memory serviced......

Would happily trade for a packet of Pork crackle ... Clubs keen on out of contract Demon Mmmm pork crackle...

I'm thinking of adopting an Open Letter approach in respect to all those who I may struggle with from time to time, starting with my boss and ending with my wife. I'll let you know how it goes. Obviously wording is key.

Spare us.

Jeez Boomer is very stiff.. Il probably get shut down for this but i would seriously consider picking Harvey the same way GWS did with Stevie J.. Harveys Leadership and outside class would easily get us to finals next year.

Paul Roos was on SEN this morning as Ambassador for Father’s Day Fun Run. Regarding Coaching he said (paraphrasing): Carlton game: Played it with a straight bat. Said we aren’t a finals team at the moment and we have another level to go to. His greatest achievement: Will reflect on it after the season. Big thing that’s stands out is the list turnover and gave credit to: Taylor, Viney, Mahoney. Gave great credit to N. Jones for his improvement and performance of captain. Suggested he will be a captain for a few more years but will be a great role model for those that may aspire to replace him. Re finals in 2017 he can’t guarantee when but with Goodwin as coach and the young talent, it will happen probably sooner rather than later. If players really commit to it, 2017 finals can happen. On Goodwin as a coach: Not much will change as he has had a big role this year in the game plan and he has good relationship with the players, good at giving players feedback which is what they want and need as a young group. He enjoys it when in a café and someone comes up and says they are a Melbourne supporter and thank him for what he has done. A most selfless man! So impressed that not once during the interview did he take credit for what has been achieved – passed it on to the people mentioned above. I find it incredibly sad our last game isn't a home game - I wouldn't care if it was at Etihad, at least we could manage the pre/post game activities and Dees supporters could attend in big numbers. I hope Geelong have spoken with PJ and find a way to acknowledge his last game in a special and fitting way.

A former pick 2, captain of the club who's been debilitated by injuries and hasn't done a full pre-season in 3 years versus pick 80. It's really not a difficult decision. Deserves a one year deal to see if a proper pre-season can get him right. It's not like we're choosing between him and a potential next Jack Viney. Of course he may never get back to what he was but there's so much more potential in Jack Trengove than there is in a pick 80 in this years draft.

Get what we can for Dawesy and move on. Great bloke but clearly not in our plans for the future.

Because he would be in our best 22 and has attributes that we lack.

Grimes will move on and Trenners will stay.

Not just the players, coaches as well. We need to be careful here. We don't have that many experienced players around the club, yet alone players with their heads screwed on and a premiership. Also, Weideman is not yet ready, and Pedersen isn't really a KPF. For mine, keep Dawes on a short-term, performance-based contract, unless there's someone similar we can get in the off-season. Brad Millar mark 2, and we saw what happened there.

He is regarded as that by the younger players at the club, for his professionalism

Wish him well. He and PJ have given us back our footy team.

I felt sick even opening this thread.

I'd take Harvey. But only as a runner. He has two of the required attributes. He can run and he can talk. Perhaps he could also sledge opposition players. On second thoughts i don't want him at the club. Even as a runner.

Harvey ave 21 disposals a game vs 16 from Kent just as example. Harvey is a more skilful player with ball in hand and makes better descisions than Kento. The way I see it if any player, if they come in for 1 or 10 years, if they improve our chance of winning then let's do it. I think we get hung up on "potential" and "upside" and still "getting games" into players. My thoughts any way.

How many people saying we should take Boomer would think that if it stopped one of Kent, Salem, Hunt, Stretch, Braysure getting games and the experience of playing and gelling together. Or what if it meant Garlett was out of the team. Because to include Boomer someone has to go! Big NO from me. No room in our team for a selfish, whinging, diver who would deny one of our young guys valuable experience.

\ North Melbourne's cutting strategy.....

I'm out of here. Nightmare scenario.

Averaging 21 a week, 7 score involvements a game and has kicked 34 goals for the season. Still has the pace and class we so desperately lack. The cake is built now with solid inside midfielders and good young talls. Unless we are into a shane edwards or pearce hanley harvey is a must get. Lumumba retires and Harvey assumes his spot. We'd get a heck of a lot more out of boomer than we have the prince, and we would start winning those essendon and carlton games. Even if boomer were managed through 18 games and missed the trips to darwin and perth, he'd be a great pick up.

Would take Harvey in an instant. Just me.

I can't stand the little rat but I'd have boomer for a season. He'd immediately become our best small forward. Still playing very good footy.

Mate, I couldn't care what you or anyone else on here thinks. I just like arguing.

Running with the bulls has got to be one of the stupidest past times I have ever seen humanity engage in. However, I will rely on Simon Goodwin here.

As Roos is into his last month I thought it may be worth recognising his contribution in a separate thread. If mods feel thread should be merged elsewhere, no prob. First contribution from our likely future captain, Jack Viney: “I think his greatest legacy at the football club will be the culture. Hopefully down the track when we are being successful, it will be Roosy that set the foundation for that...I will miss him a great deal. He has been terrific for our football club, coming in when the club wasn’t going so well and really setting some strong foundations.” http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/paul-roos-to-test-demons-young-talent-against-hawthorn/news-story/718fb452b3441a1c22724475d8151bdd I recall Jack saying in an interview recently saying that 'Roosy is the 'boss dog' said with the earnestness that left no doubt as to who is in charge and in a tone that had awe, respect and adoration. From Jack Watts recently: 'Roosy’s probably saved my career, to be honest...It’s his person skills and the way he actually invests in his players outside of football'. Methinks that along with the undoubted respect in which Roos is held there is also much love from the players. People may find fault with some Roos' decision, rate of improvement etc but he never lost sight of the end game: setting up our club for a successful future. I believe he has delivered that in spades. He (and PJ et al) has made MFC relevant again. I will be eternally grateful for restoring pride in my club again. Following on from Jack's words above when we are being successful, it will be Roosy that set the foundation for that, my dream vision is Barassi and Roos presenting the Premiership Cup to Jones and or Viney!

Could not agree less. I would absolutely offer them both one year contract extensions. Not on very much coin though.

Gguuuyyyssss ssshhhhhhhh!!!! I'm sure they read these sites... Well I for one don't want to lose Chris?! If he just gets a full preseason in he'll get back to his premiership best! MFC don't let this one slip!

Open letter to you. no one at MFC will give two fccks about your nose being out of joint do you want to go one better and throw a banana at them? yes, we lost. Yes, it was crap. Don't you think they know these things? do they call for your advice often? sheesh.

They should have sacked Scott as well

Attached is a representation of Carlton's season, in terms of Disposals (D), Contested Possessions (CP), Clearances (CLR), Tackles (T) and Frees Against (FA). Frees Against is displayed on a different scale (right hand side) as the volumes are so low it wouldn't demonstrate the point. I'd suggest from a season perspective they were about their mark on each of those stats, except one..... I realise stats don't tell the whole story, but this is poking me in the eye (with no free kick paid). Sure we may not have been first to the ball all day, but I haven't seen a rule stating if you're first to the ball you can't be penalised. The rules still state you must either dispose of the ball legally if first to the ball, or tackle legally if second to the ball. Disclaimer: Not saying we would have won, simply stating this game was very unusual in regards to the free kick count of one team.

And so begins the rapid plummet of a team that had delusions of winning a flag with 30yr old top ups. I don't normally like to laugh at the despair of others, but norf norf norf norf norf...........

Harvey last week against the swans: 32 touches, kicked 3.2 in a low scoring game 10 score involvements, 5 tackles YOU'RE CUT HARVEY!

And he is also one of the best looking players on our list. And that stuff counts.

Can't believe that the oxygen thief Jarrad Waite is not in this group, I would have moved him on in a heartbeat before Boomer.

I would prefer not to!

But... but... Josh Kelly will win a brownlow. Apparently.

I have no idea about his talent but I am wary of any Essendon player who has been on the sideline. First I am not sure a year off is either mentally or physically a good thing for a player but their routine changes (the holiday pics only confirm this in my mind) and they start the off-season a long way behind everyone else. Second they must carry some mental baggage from the whole saga and there is no reliable precedent to judge how they will perform/react. The fact he doesn't want to go back suggests at least some baggage and having seen some ex Essendon players talk in the media its clear they still have real issues about the whole saga. Third we dont really know if the baseline of their previous performance was affected by the program at Essendon. Finally Goodwin maintaining a connection to his Essendon days just seems to me to be a bad idea. He needs to build something new with his team at Melbourne and find other players with the qualities he requires (and admired in some players at Essendon). So I would not like to be giving up a pick to get someone with all those issues. Its hard enough being an AFL player. If we get him gratis so be it. We have taken a risk with Melksham and I see no need to double down now.

PD to me it was the way we lost last weekend. It was a carbon copy of 2015 What did we learn in 12 months? That is a concern

Your concerns don't concern me, but as a discussion point I have a view on the validity of those concerns. We couldn't beat Hawthorn, we beat Hawthorn. We couldn't beat Collingwood, we beat Collingwood. We couldn't beat Carlton and in 2014 we beat Carlton. We couldn't win in Adelaide, we won under Roos in Adelaide. We couldn't beat Port, we beat Port - in Adelaide. We've been the youngest team in the league this year more often than not, so we're still flaky. I accept that we're still flaky, so flaky results may follow, but I'm rapt with the list that is being developed and the progression we're undertaking. I certainly have no fear of Carlton, the Saints or Essendon. In the not too distance future past losses will turn into wins. But if you want to hang onto some sense of perceived ownership of the MFC by those teams then of course please yourself. In my opinion it's a view that lacks rigour.

I'm still peed off with our first quarter effort, but Carlton obviously had a clever tactic which we were not prepared for. All I can say is hopefully we can learn from this and develop counter measures in the off season , so we are in better shape next year to make a proper run at finals. Maybe throw Hogan in the middle to create a bit of chaos and break things up, maybe get the ball going our way.

Back on the thread - I hope that we try and finish AFL season off on a high down at Geelong. The Cats look like they will almost be back to full strength with Bartel, Caddy and Menzel possibly all back. Hopefully we don't just sell out to development completely like last week because I doubt we will get away with it as the Cats want a top-four spot. Being a day game we should have the advantage of pace and hopefully it won't be majorly wet so that our possession-game goes astray all the time like last week. To me there's only one obvious out - Weideman. It was great to speed up his development by rushing him in for two games, but now he can concentrate on taking his game to another level for the VFL finals and build for next season. I am not sure if Pedo is the only answer to take on Stanley when Smith and Gawn rest, although we again saw the dangers of playing Watts as the back-up ruck against two genuine ruckmen last week and I've said for a few weeks that it is a dangerous option - although it worked really well the first few weeks because it got him into the game more. Watts can still go on the ball for a few minutes to achieve this without being a ruckman. While giving Pedo this game would be nice, because it gives him another chance to boost his chance of getting another year, I'd rather see Spencer get a reward for a long season of playing VFL and he did do well down there last year. Obviously Matt Jones will be considered as a replacement for Stretch - I've commented on this before. One is 19, the other is 28 and at this stage there's very little between them - so I know which way I'd be going, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did the switch. It would also be nice to see Grimes and Trengove get a fair well game - but I suspect that won't happen. Jeffy will come in for Neal-Bullen and if Jeffy is not fit, then Salem comes into the equation up forward. Salem also is a potential in down back to replace Michie, although I actually thought Viv was OK on Sunday. Given the size of the Cats, and the fact that he played a huge game in the VFL, Col Garland should also be considered and he also can do kick-in duties which have now become so Vince-centric that he has to rush all the way back from the wing at times to the goal square and give the opposition as long as they'd like to set up their zone. Personally I'd send Bernie on to the ball at stoppages and have him man Danger like he did in Adelaide because he makes good body contact with him and then have Hunt pick him up around the ground. If that means sending Nat Jones back, then so be it. Jonesy is smart and is a thumping kick and would be perfect for a Bartel match-up role before moving on to the ball in the second half if needed. Anyone who saw last year's game, knows that Viney has to go to Selwood. It's harder for Selwood to duck into a short guy and there's always a chance he will hurt himself against a ferocious tackler like Jack. Out: Weideman, Neal-Bullen, Michie In: Spencer, Garlett (Salem), Garland B: Jetta (Motlop) T-Mac (Hawkins) Garland (Kersten) HB: Hunt (Menzel/Danger) O.Mac (Stanley) N.Jones (Bartel) C: Stretch Viney Bugg HF: Petracca Hoges Kent F: Garlett (Salem) Spencer Watts Ru: Gawn Vince Tyson Int: Frost, Oliver, VB, Brayshaw

To me that amounts to Salem for pick 19. The club's strategy in the last few years has been to take the fastest route possible towards improvement. All our trade types have supported this: 1) trading out picks for experienced players; 2) trading future picks for picks this year to get the jump on development, and 3) trading late picks for fringers at other clubs who are about the right age. Yours is type 4) trading out talent (unrealized at this stage) and going back to the well. It's a regressive strategy. I can't support that and it's at odds with everything the club has worked towards in the last three years.

Despite everything on sunday, if a few of our shots had been converted, we would have won. VDB, Jesse, Jones, Petracca and Watts missed 11 fairly regulation shots.

This game still means something. Nothing would give me more pleasure than beating the AFL charity case that is Geelong in the final round on their home turf and kicking them out of the top 4, or at worst killing their hopes of a top 2 spot and making them travel to Sydney or Adelaide in week 1 of the finals. And for good measure I hope Viney injures both Selwood and Dangerfield and they miss the finals series. To finish the season 11-11 with a % over 100 would be a great segue to the Goodwin era.

The team Roos took over wasn't much better than the 1 win 49% Fitzroy team of 1996. The Dees in 2013 were 2 wins and 54% (including a win over a fledgling GWS). Roos took on a 2013 Melbourne team coming off 11 defeats of over 10 goals, including 6 losses of over 90 points. Half of their season games were 10 goal plus hidings and over a quarter were 90 plus. Two of the losses were 148 points and 128 points. To put that into perspective, this year Essendon and Brisbane (presently) have had just 2 losses of over 90 points. Roos took over a worse list than the 2016 version of both Essendon and Brisbane. Brisbane are considered an utter rabble with 2 wins and 60%, but at the corresponding period we'd kicked 221 points less in 2013. That he's been able to strip back the list and have the least experienced side in the competition last weekend (66 games to Brisbane's 67) beat the all conquering premiers, who'd delivered another 105 point thumping last year is testament to the incredible improvement and transformation of the list and club. He knew he'd first have to teach the players how to compete at AFL level, then win and finally win consistently. He took over a team that had won 20 quarters for the year and this year they'll be more than double. We're currently within 2 quarters of the Dogs and 5 of Hawthorn. We've won 5 more than St.Kilda. Peter Jackson has been a Godsend too, but it's the coach who sets the tone of a football club. He's brought in Goodwin and allowed him to have control in the areas he's good at, such as player relationships and game style. Roos has created an environment where Goodwin and others can thrive. He's been a culture changer. And he's been worth every cent.