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Its their GF this year....didn't you know !!

Excellent op Mr Bin. Jack's preseason form has carried through. There's well and truly enough evidence to conclude that he's turned the corner. He competes far better than he ever has. He's had the odd lapse, but in the main the effort has been great. He faded in the second half today, but had a crack in the wet and really impacted the game, which was another box ticked. He's really progressed and must be enjoying his footy. The scrutiny on him would have broken lesser individuals. It's testament to his character that he's now well on the way to finishing his career at the Dees. I'll admit that he'll never be perfect in my eyes, but he's reached a level that I'd stopped thinking he was capable of. How good would it be if he could crack 50 goals for the year ? That really would silence his many critics. I hasten to add that 40 will do ! Well done Jack. Keep going. My new avatar will be uploaded in the morning.

Pannell beaten.

Pannell should be banned for the rest of the season. Send a message and actually have these umpires called out for once for that dirty work.

Wow. 19 pages of a thread hanging [censored] on a 20 year old kid trying to find his way in the AFL. As though all our misfortunes are on his head. Get a grip, people. Seriously, now.

Nah Brown's just an idiot ....fullstop .

Not too sure why people are suggesting to change the back 6.. They were under extreme pressure in the last part of the 3rd quarter and 4th quarter and held up quite well. The only change is if someone is injured or sore. As for the Midfield - should remain the same, with Spencer the only possible inclusion depending on the Pies ruck choices and the weather. If wet then Gawn will ruck by himself. Forward line, Kennedy to come back in for Harmes as the only change. Dawes will be much better next week with Jesse and I am sure Garlett will also set himself for a blinder. Looking forward to seeing more of Dom Tyson and Petracca in the middle for longer.

I find this thread amusing. He performed exactly as I expect. The guy is past it. The same problems that have been there for three years. How he gets a game in preference to Pedersen is beyond me.

So he's 2-3 weeks away.

If Grimes is on 98 games and considering he has been in the best players at Casey every game he has played this year and what he has given the club, I would love to see him get his 100 with us.

Can't jump very high.

I make very few threads - in fact in my time of posting I think I've only made two. I was waiting for a Jack Watts thread to pop up to post on it but it hasn't come. So here we are. For those that might have forgotten or are new to Demonland Prodee and i (and Ron Burgundy for that matter) had a bet in the preseason. It was made in November last year and to quote from my post at the time: 'I'll wager he will play more than 10 games and if i lose will take a 2 month sabbatical form Demonland. If he plays more than 10 you change your avatar for two months to a pic of Wattsy of my choosing' ProDee accepted the bet and to his credit said if he lost he would keep his Jack Watts avatar for six months. He also said to Ron that: 'I'll change my avatar to Binman's choice for 6 months from the day he plays his 11th game (won't happen) and you can dictate my signature for the corresponding period.' Well Jack played his 11th (consecutive) game of this season today and had yet another decent game. Why the title of the thread? Well whatever you think of Jack Watts one thing you can't criticise him for is his durability. Debuting in round 11 2009 jack has played 126 games of AFL as of round 11 2016. Leaving aside (asinine) arguments about whether some of these games have been gifted to him the fact remains he has been incredibly durable. Of course luck plays a part and perhaps the churlish might say his lack of competitiveness has helped him avoid injury but he clearly prepares himself well and works bloody hard. He gets very little, if any recognition or credit for this durability. Prodee's rationale for his wager was a totally reasonable one. His argument was that Roos had a put a premium on picking players who were competitive and he felt Watts would not measure up. However he got this wrong. Watts is one of the first picked. Not once has his selection been in any doubt. Not even here on DL where Wattsy's harshest critics lurk in red and blue camouflage. Watts has measured up on the competitiveness stakes. No question. If he hadn't Roos would have dropped him. So big tick there. Prodee correctly predicted he would play permanently up forward. IIRC correctly he said that a pass mark for goals would be 35 -40 (I said 30-35). Again a reasonable suggestion. Well he is on target to surpass 40 goals averaging bang on 2 goals a game this season. So another big tick. It remains to be seen how he will go in the bluey (another Prodee measuring stick – and again not an unreasonable one) but I’m guessing he’d be top 10. So a half a tick there. He is one of our fist picked and one of perhaps only 12 players who are a lock each week. So a tick there. I would like to see him average 20 disposals a game and would love for him to play a real blinder, but he has been more than serviceable and has been a key factor in at least two of our wins. So a big tick there. There was a thread suggesting he was our most important re-signing. Well that’s plain silly. Hogan is clearly our most important re-signing of those coming out of contract (though Gawn is our most important player I would argue). To suggest anything else is crazy. But as a point of reference about Wattsy’s form this this season the stats comparison to Hogan makes for interesting reading (and yes i know stats lie - i'm not suggesting he is as good as Hogan). Not much between them and I imagine Hogan just loves the service he gets from Watts. Player Statistics Comparison Jack Watts Name Jesse Hogan Melbourne Demons Team Melbourne Demons Midfield, Forward Position Forward 126 Career Games 31 Sandringham Dragons Origin Claremont March 26, 1991 Date of Birth February 12, 1995 25yr 2mth Age 21yr 3mth 196cm Height 195cm 92kg Weight 101kg 2008 National Draft Last Drafted In 2012 Mini Draft Round 1, Pick #1 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #2 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons 2016 Stats for Season 2016 11 Games 11 9.6 Kicks Per Game 10.4 5.0 Handballs Per Game 4.6 14.6 Disposals Per Game 14.9 6.3 Marks Per Game 7.4 2.0 Goals Per Game 2.4 0.6 Behinds Per Game 1.7 1.3 Tackles Per Game 1.2 1.6 Hitouts Per Game 0 2.9 Inside 50s Per Game 2.6 0.9 Goal Assists Per Game 0.8 0.6 Frees For Per Game 0.9 0.9 Frees Against Per Game 0.4 5.6 Contested Possessions Per Game 6.6 9.4 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 8.7 12.0 Effective Disposals Per Game 9.8 82.2% Effective Disposals % Per Game 65.8% 2.6 Clangers Per Game 1.8 1.1 Contested Marks Per Game 2.4 2.1 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 3.4 0.1 Clearances Per Game 0.1 0.4 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.4 1.4 One Percenters Per Game 1.6 0 Bounces Per Game 0.3 82.3 Time On Ground % Per Game 91.3 $393,000 AFL Fantasy Price $448,000 74.7 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 83.0 $402,500 Supercoach Price $446,500 71.6 Supercoach Score Per Game 80.4

2 goals from 15 disposals. Dunn played back and frost forward. Not sure why all the doom and gloom here. Collingwood had 53 inside 50 entries and kicked 7 goals at the weekend. Hawthorn had 58 and kicked 11. We defended much better as a team in our back half at the weekend, and if it wasn't for some very lazy forward half pressure and an inability to keep the ball in our forward half, we probably go closer to winning the game. Port showed last week that when we let teams walk out of our forward 50 unopposed we are easy to score against. Our problem, as it has been for a few weeks, is our inability to trap the ball high in our forward half for longer periods of the game. If we let sidebottom, pendlebury and trealor get the ball in hand with space in the centre square, it won't matter if it's frost, McDonald's or whoever defending. The biggest kpi's this year on our wins have been tackles and pressure acts inside our forward half, and our ability to keep the ball forward for longer periods of time. It's just crazy to think that defenders can consistently get blamed here, even with their individual failings, when our half forward line and midfielders don't put enough pressure on, don't stick their tackles and don't close down space well enough to allow the opposition to just wake it out of our forward half. Anyone who has even a remote idea of playing football knows that if the midfielder has open space in front of him, the majority of the time he will hit a eating forward and there is little a defender can do. Get the ball in your front half, then put enough frontal and midfield pressure on to keep it there and inevitably you win more games of footy than you lose.

Funny you should mention Collingwood supporters ET. Crowd was only 28,500 yesterday. Home game at the G and coming off a great game vs Geelong and a friendly 1.10 time slot. Don't know what their supposed 75,000 members do when their team plays at the 'G'. Fair weather fans! They probably won't show up on QB Monday either! Mores the pity for our gate revenue.

Unlike some other clubs, our pet memberships don't count. Although my two dogs are probably smarter and cleaner than some Collingwood supporters.

Jaded & mauriesy summed it up well on the other page of this thread with OMac. It is the greater picture. The FD knows what they'll get with Dunn, Grimes etc, they're finding out what they'll get with OMac. They're instilling some belief and confidence in him ATM so HE knows that he is capable and they're teaching him what he can do better and what he needs to work on. He's in his second year, a important year in his development. We need to mould the new look defence for 2017-20 period (and beyond). Is Dunn a part of that? Most probably not. Our team wasn't far off Hawthorn on the weekend and it was a good test defensively and they did ok. If our forwards functioned and performed how we'd know and like them to perform (ie. Hogan, Garlett, Dawes) we may have well won. The next 2 rounds are indeed huge for team performance. Collingwood in QB and Sydney. Two high pressure games. Playing one of these is worth 5 games of experience for a first year player or player with less than 10 games of experience IMO.

Why is everyone dropping O Mac despite him playing his career best game? i reckon his older sibling made triple the amount of mistakes than O Mac did.

No he wouldn't. Stef is a good when he is the #1 ruck - we already have that, we just need someone who can give Gawn a rest but play elsewhere most of the time. Stef never played well in that role.

Hogan gets a free ride on Demonland for his poor defensive efforts IMO. He is never going to be as good at applying pressure as Buddy Franklin or Waite, but he needs to look at the effort that players like Petrie and Josh Kennedy give when the opposition have the ball. Forward line pressure only works when everyone contributes.

Coming from someone with the IQ of plankton.

Agree with most of that, but referencing the shots on goal as evidence they could've flogged us is folly. A lot of them were rushed behinds, and when you score a behind you get an opportunity to set up and create another scoring opportunity. The 58-50 inside 50 count provides a better reflection of the evenness of the contest. Their tackling inside forward 50 was a key difference. Kent and Harmes haven't been good enough of late in this aspect especially.

Geezus what a shithouse post

Interesting........from a jumper perspective !! That little bit of Teal made all the difference apparently

In all seriousness stuie, what did Oscar do wrong on the weekend? Apart from his big clanger when he got pinged for holding the ball, I don't think I saw him get beaten one on one or make a glaring error. I'm a bit perplexed as to why someone would think he had a bad game on the weekend. That's not directed at yourself but to supporters in general.

Hes going to be a fine player. He will be better than Tom I reckon, for starters he can kick and has shown already he can make good decisions with the footy. Not his fault hes been thrown to the wolves, and I reckon hes handled it well. The hysteria on here is ludicrous.

Unbelievable that we didn't get a free kick from the Ceglar hit behind play, but Bernie got reported and gave away a free for that farcical love tap. Pathetic umpiring and proof that Hawthorn are protected. I hope that awful Pannell dude takes his bald spot and [censored] off back to some local league never to be heard from again!

Yeah, they're always getting themselves up for us... They should feel privileged to play us on this day. lol

Travis played the last time and kicked 2 of the most easiest 'Joe the goose' goals you'll see. Dunn did a great job on him.

Geez Stef Martin would be handy right about now. Just saying.

Am i correct in assuming I was not the only one watching Frost play on Saturday thinking something along the lines of "Thank God! Why wasnt he playing there from round 1!" He is strong, quick, mobile and uses his athleticism to run forward with the ball. I thought it was one of the better games I've seen him play. I know he lacks some plolished skills, but he gave real stucture to a backline that had stuggled in recent times, particular against talls.

Please, no more, my sides are splitting....

He can't say he doesn't have good ball slapping skills

That's nice. I was surrounded by smug Hawthorn a-holes who continually whinged about the umps. Three flags in a row and all they could do was whinge about the umps. Did I mention I hate Hawthorn?

No he isn't and you know it. And you know that disposals are totally misleading when used like this.

It is so frustrating that people won't see what is staring them in the face, H-T! I suspect the majority criticising Oscar were not at the game. Maybe the TV camera's didn't capture his work rate for those that watched on TV. But probably they are just being stubborn and now that Jack Watts is playing well Oscar is the new whipping boy who can do no right. Will be delighted to see those KBW come back here and praise Oscar (as they now do JW) in due course. I hope he stays in the team - his performance shows he deserves it.

Don't expect to change posters minds with this. They'll hold on tight with their beliefs despite website write-ups and FD analysis.

Agree. Watts is an opportunist tall forward, with an excellent kick and footy smarts. He is not an overly strong hulking key forward. Weideman attacks the ball strongly and given the bodies of his grand dad and dad could develop into that strong hulking forward, who is also a good kick. Hulett by the way missed a lot of footy in the last few years, but is already a beast If Liam and Sam develop well we will have a great forward line with Jesse, Watts, Petracca and the smalls. Also, a couple of Kings as someone said, could be thereabouts as well.

Then he is 100% not playing.

Agreed. We don't need to rush Weideman. Who would he even replace in the side? He isn't a Dawes or Pedersen replacement, and the last thing we need is even more inexperience. As it is our inexperience leads to a lack of composure which has cost us games this season (North, Hawks to name a few). Oscar McDonald is filling a role that we currently don't have a better alternative for. Yes people will scream for Dunn, but Dunn can't zone off, he doesn't understand two-way running and isn't even tall enough to play on many of today's key forwards. We need to keep developing players in every area of the ground. When Garland and Dunn play everybody screams that they are no good and belong to the old culture of losing. So we try to bring in new players, and then everybody screams that they aren't ready. When do people suggest we give these guys experience? When we are trying to make top 4? When we are in contention for a flag? The time is now. We are improving slowly and building, but finals are probably unrealistic. This is the perfect time, with a new coach coming in next season and an adjusted game plan, to develop these players. Funny I don't see many people calling for Hunt and Wagner to go back to the VFL, although they leak probably as many goals every week, playing on lesser opponents. People see what they want to see, and Oscar bashing seems the flavour of the month. He is so raw, yes, but he is no worse than his brother or Frawley was at this stage of their career. We have two choices; play him and see if he cuts it with more experience (if he doesn't we don't need to waste list space on him going forward), or let him go back to the VFL where he dominates and live under an illusion that he will be great one day by some miracle despite getting no AFL exposure.

Insult to plankton

The Hulett Weideman combo continues.. Hulett 13 goals. Weideman 16 goals.

From my observations of the three young players you've mentioned. Hulett: Could well become a good ruck/forward option. He's very strong in the contest and is already a bit of a beast for such a young kid. From all reports he played as a bit like Pedersen as an U18, in that he could play forward, back & pinch hit in the ruck. Haven't had the chance to see him ruck at VFL level yet due to Spencer, Max King, Keilty, Pedersen & Mitch King (Round 1 only) all being available at different stages to play ruck. So there's certainly scope for him to play this role, but it's hard to make an informed call as of yet on his body of work. Looks a player though. Max King: 3rd year on the list, and he's capable of some special things, but if I had to make a call either way, I'd say I don't think he'll make it and will likely be delisted at years end. Still looks very light physically and gets pushed out of marking contests a little to easily for mine. I'd go as far to say that both Weideman & Hulett look stronger in the contest then King does. I hope he proves me wrong, but don't see him being an option. Weideman: Very excited about his prospects going forward. He looks a natural footballer & a natural forward at that. I don't see him as being a 2nd ruck option as I think we'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Again, may be proven wrong, but he just doesn't strike me as the type to go into the ruck.

Our forward line is as much to blame as any line as to why we have been getting opened up out the back. Yes our backs have been poor in letting opponents get goalside but those coast to coast goals normally start in our forward line due to our lack of pressure on key ball carriers. Hawthorn gave us a lesson in workrate and forward pressure and that was the difference in the end: Tackle Numbers (forwards) Watts 0 Puopolo 10 Hogan 0 Rioli 11 Dawes 1 Gunston 5 Kent 3 Breust 5 vandenBerg 3 Stewart 9 Garlett 3 Sicily 2 Petracca 6 O'Brien 3 16 45

EFA

They wanted him to be a second ruck. With his athletic traits he would have the potential to be a brutal 5 minute per quarter ruck/on baller. With Pedersen sick we're now playing Watts in this role which is clearly a compromise, and Pedersen is a 29 year old journeyman footballer anyway. It's not that much of a mystery why we hoped Frost would come on - he's got the right traits and we have a long term need. Defenders are a lot easier to find. Happy to see him settle as a defender; there's no reason why his athleticism can't be uses as a weapon there as well, but I can see why they persisted for as long as possible, until it was clear it wasn't working.

Whilst not disputing the data presented re tackle counts, of course not all forward (or anywhere) defensive pressure is reflected in tackle numbers. Hard chasing, corralling, bumping, spoiling etc are also very important but not reflected in those numbers. I suspect that these areas have also been lacking particularly in our losses.

We used to call it staging and used to have umpires who were smart enough to never pay it, so it went away!

Never heard of him

Do you know what Demonland is?

Generally the idea with changing the side is to make it stronger - that usually precludes dropping the best player you have for particular positions.