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The closer we get to decision day, the less interested I get in the actual result because this is one of those cases where the passing of time makes the judicial outcome virtually meaningless. There's this well worn vision of an exchange between Gerard Whateley and James Hird on AFL360 where the latter claims the AFL Tribunal exonerated his players from using any banned substances and the former correctly states that was not the case, rather that ASADA had failed to convince the Tribunal to the standard of comfortable satisfaction, as to the contents of the substances ingested by the players during the club's year long programme. Never mind of course, that no evidence of anything much could be found at Hird's club - all of it gone, vanished into the ether. So four years after the event and almost three years after details of the programme were made public, we have no justice other than that which has been delayed and denied thanks to political interference, bungled attempts by a conflicted AFL to smooth things over, a hardworking but understaffed and ineffective investigatory regime, a club and its officials stonewalling at almost every step of the way from the ex-CEO, to the ex-coach and the still current club doctor while the apparent chief villain of the piece still refuses to produce the evidence he claims will set the players free. So in the end, Tuesday will bring no surprises and won't change anything from my point of view. Whatever happens, it will act as a liberating influence for the Essendon Football Club and its players because it will bring an end to four lost years that were in themselves, more than adequate punishment. If there's a finding of guilt then there will be further punishment but either way, there are no heroes in all of this, not even the players. Only villains.

Different personalities and diversity of views make this an interesting site as long as the egos and personal sledging does not detract from the information provided by track side watchers. So far the varied reports this pre-season have been great but let's make sure the standards remain and that mutual respect prevails.

Though Pickering States the bleeding obvious....it is the fact of the matter. Deride the messenger all you like. Fawn over the P kid all you like. Reality is he f'd up . Something to learn from. Very unprofessional. Very un what the club provided. Some here have already presented him a golden..ne .. Platinum card. Kid hasn't turned a trick for us yet. He has NO credits in bank. Needs to pull socks up and pay respect to his trainers and coaches. I'll probably be alone in this. Don't give a fig.

I know we have to be patient but i hope we see a flag before then

Each to their own. i think it looks amazing, especially when placed alongside other logos on the Facebook fixture. Already bought several pieces of merchandise over Christmas. Members were consulted in a extensive branding and logo survey I completed in 2014. I suppose you'll never please everyone.

The players are very low in the list of potential heroes in this, I put the staff at ASADA and WADA as close as anyone, the have toiled away in the face of political influences and interference from all and sundry and yet are still there fighting for what is right. Win or lose you can't fault their determination and want to uphold the standards we have agreed to play to.

I had a really good chat to Jason Taylor about him, first picked him up at under 14 level and have been keeping tabs on him, because of his physique, felt that the missing year would not be a problem, had a couple of games at the end of this season and showed no ill effects and the same attributes he showed at under 16s, so picking him up was not an issue, scares a few of the boys in the boxing ring so I am told......Roos is also a big fan

Me leaning on fence........ McCartney to players "which bit of stay of out the f*****g corridor don't you get" McCartney to me "a bit of constructive development there"

As it is a training thread, after speaking to the coaches and the players, and in line with Jack Viney's recent comments, everybody seems to be finally on the same page, the focus at training is sharper, the communication is clearer etc etc, McCartney has gone to another level this year (the players love him), you can see the development happening in front of your eyes Another comment from the players, we have 40+players on the list, whoever is fit and in form will play and they all want to accept the challenge And if Hulett can play in a game as good as he shows at training, he is my pick for the smokey this year, he is super aggressive and has the size already to go with it Other good signs Hunt and Kent basically doing every session, like having 2 new extra recruits, one bit from training a week or so back, Ben Kennedy who is renowned for his speed tried to burn Hunt off, Hunt had him in about 10 metres

This is one of the most disgraceful parts of the saga. That ASADA and WADA have been painted as "bad guys". Reprehensible, and those responsible, including a number of media stooges, deserve many sleepless nights.

Absolutely staggers me that anyone would think this. These delays have been caused by the club accused of drug cheating. They deserve everything that is coming to them, and even more. Couldn't give a stuff for them being "liberated" I want to see them eviscerated. Long may the scum suffer.

To all, no the hair and beard at the last training before Xmas was a little joke with Brendan McCartney, work at a fun place now, colour the old ash blonde now and again, forgot I had it in one day and went to training, the players 'loved' it of course, McCartney asked me to colour it and the beard for last training session, and why not Other observations from training to keep thread on track, the reporting of even the slightest twinge has gone to another level again, Nev Jetta felt a bit of a pinch in his hip flexor about 15 minutes into a session and that was it, told to go back inside and get it looked at, next week or so in rehab. Reason Dom Tyson is still rehabbing, had a bit of an issue over the break and into first couple of weeks of training, so has to catch up before he gets back in main group, also his engine still needs a bit of work The reason Nathan Jones did so well in 3k was he was told to improve his running ability, so not just the kids being put on notice, and with the neck injury it was the opportunity to work on it, he is also another that has 'slimmed down' Hunt would also be a good pick for a smokey, although Mitch White has every intention of banging the door down as well, as seen by the 3km last week, Max King if he keeps up his consistency could be another

Got down for a look and was impressed at what was on display. No good at these things but since there's no reports so far I'll try put a few things down. I was about 20 min late and walked into a fast paced ball movement/decision making drill. I try get to a few training sessions each pre season and haven't seen this before. I should mention that Goodwin and McCarthy were running training and I didn't see Roo's all day. It was play on at all cost with sharp decisions which were generally hitting there targets. It was a great drill cause not only was it teaching the boys about ball movement it was teaching the defending group about guarding space or when to fully commit to the ball carrier. A couple of other notes from today. - I'm a Kent fan and he was running the boundary and he's a beast. Big thighs, thick through his chest. If fully fit come round 1 should be in starting 22. - they did simply things like goal kicking for 10 min. Garlett was doing dribble kicks, Hogan leading and marking, mid field clearance work. Backs intercept marking. Rucks tap work then tackle and spread. It was just the little things but to be honest things we need to make instinct and not stop and think oh yeah I need to be doing this. - loved the banter in the goal kicking. Gawn most vocal and pretty funny. Watts had a bit to say and you can see his very well liked by the boys. - running drill at the end was 2 sets of 10 x 100m sprints. Getting to the last couple you could see a few boys struggle then McCarthy yells out "talk and help each other through" to which a few boys piped up. Gus was struggling and Watts was tapping him on the back until the last one Watts almost run the last with his arm around Gus's waist encouraging/helping him through. They crossed the line and the two embraced for a while, nice touch. - Track said its a small fracture and not as bad as first thought, said media made it bigger than it is. - The team is looking big as in height and size. At one stage midfield was Vanders, Gus, Tyson and Gawn. I could only think that it would be a little imposing with the size. I've been writing this for over an hour and can't recall what I've said but that's what happens with 3 kids. Hope someone can take a little from this. Cheers

I enjoyed it. Hes offered a damn sight more than you, in any case.

THIS. Someone on here said something in regards to this which has really resonated with me: your worst player on the list is the one that can't get on the park. Yes we know Petracca has a huge amount of potential, but at the moment he offers nothing and will continue to offer nothing until he starts playing games.

I agree and it frustrates me as well ... this saga has taught me a valuable lesson about how people in this country view sport that is played within this country. The media will often reflect what a large percentage of what the public "wants" to think and they've done so time and time again ... the public's love of the game is at the heart of the matter. Rather than a gullible public being fed nonsense, I see it as the footy public being fed what they want to see and hear. Take this particular thread as an example ... many of the more prominent posters on this site have nothing to say on the matter and it's my guess that many of these same prominent posters don't even bother to open the thread. It's what they're not saying that intrigues me. Why so quiet? Even though this thread has remained as a prominent one, it's the same dozen or so people who have kept it going ... again, I maintain that most people do not want to know about this saga and just want it to go away. Where as guilt is almost automatic when it comes to "overseas" athletes (with regards to PED use), when it's closer to home, it's seemingly an almost opposite view (primarily) I don't know when it happened but there has been a major shift in the attitude towards PED use in sport ... I believe many have either given up or they see it as a part of sport that they can now live with. From a practical viewpoint, we're pushing the proverbial uphill. WADA needs at least 20 times the funding that it currently receives ... in 2013 WADA's income was just over 26 million dollars ... that is such a paltry amount that one wonders how it operates at all - forget effectively.

Having rewatched the games against Richmond and Rd18 against the Pies, I've concluded that this bloke requires a bit more love, including from me. He was a mixture of tenacity, skill and composure on both occasions. Sure, he might wear the "mental scars of the past" a little more visibly than others, but his effort can rarely be questioned. He is now a resolute and versatile defender who I have little doubt several other clubs would've been sniffing around before he put pen to paper. Seeing him slump to the ground on the verge of tears after a home and away win says everything about the journey he has been on, and what this club means to him. Here's to a great 2016 for a bloke who deserves success as much as anyone.

hear you tone, blzb... we all should start to expect more from our players, rather than playing out fantasy videos of them across the bedroom wall, showing how they could play, rather than how the ARE playing?.

Clear, concise, simple message. Great. Another example of our improved list. White has played an AFL game and looks to have a fair AFL career ahead of him, Michie has played games at AFL level, King has showed improvement and is a possible AFL player of the future, with some physical development and Wagner has played senior footy in a lower level competition. Smith is the longshot of the group.

I cannot believe what I just watched. All the Bengals had to do was three pedestrian running plays, force Pittsburgh to use all three timeouts, put a FG on the board, take the simple 4 point lead to win the game (barring a Hail Mary fluke). It was so easy. To fumble the ball on the first play, to allow Pittsburgh to gain two (or three) first downs on the final drive, then the horrendous two penalties...unbelievable. Cincinnati deserves to be pilloried for those final sequences. The only reason it's not enjoyable is that it puts Pittsburgh into the next round.

with you 100%

Just watched that quarter and found it a good reminder of how well our list is shaping up with White, Harmes and O. Mac all showing plenty. Also realised what a beast Maxxy Gawn is - could well be our most important player next to Hogan.

I would argue when we have the ball every player needs to have (now I know some people hate these Americanised terms) offensive capabilities and when we dont have the ball every player becomes a defender. To suggest Garlands game doesn't require anything offensively is no different to saying that Hogan and Garlett don't need to try and lock the ball in when it enters our forward 50. Yes players have their specific roles but considering how fast the game is these days and how one dropped mark or one misdirected kick can result in a turnover and the ball being slingshot up the other end of the ground, players will find themselves at times out of position and switching between offence and defense in seconds and without warning. Yes every team has their preferred users of the football, but as we know at times on the break players will be caught out. Garland can't simply wait for Salem to present himself before offloading the footy. I don't think it's as easy as saying someone's game is x amount offensive and y amount defensive. In a thread last year I argued that even Jetta's position is under threat, for example if White gets elevated of the rookie list during the course of the year our back six could look like White Tmac Melksham Garland/Frost Dunn ? In the back pocket if our midfield was firing and we didn't have many injuries Salem/Stetch/ANB could be an option for back pocket. If we have a player that can do as good as a defensive job as Jetta but offer more going the other way why wouldn't we use him. A scenario like that would make us very hard to match up on and we wouldn't find ourselves getting bogged down in our back 50 so much. This is what made Geelong sand Hawthorn so great is the flexibility in their teams. Our team has been stuck in the past for years, coaching has been a large part of that, and allowing players to think their role is simply doing one thing. I would like to think that McCartney is teaching Oscar and the likes both sides of the game.

Brian hoyer is having a shocker.

No, I do understand the mass appeal of cricket in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh but if all aspects of a sport are taken into account, then other sports are bigger than cricket. My view on a sport isn't just about the sheer number of supporters (passive or otherwise) Previously I mentioned astronomical salaries, huge numbers of actual spectators at the games (often paying top dollar), massive tv rights money and worldwide appeal in sports other than cricket . In terms of actual numbers interested in a sport, cricket is right up there but that's only one aspect. Basketball has widespread popularity as does baseball ... ice hockey is massive in Europe and the NFL generates enormous sums of money. The world's best players in baseball, basketball and ice hockey are attracted to the MLB, NBA, & the NHL - those 3 Leagues are "International Leagues" much like the EPL is in soccer ... Multiple NFL games are played at Wembley in London every year to sellout crowds - and the patrons are paying decent coin for the privilege. Test cricket is actually one of my favourite sports to watch so I could be biased if I was that way inclined. I'm happy to agree to disagree, all the same. I will concede that cricket is on the rise (with a bullet) mainly because of the impact that t20 cricket will have going forward. Not sure where cricket stands with regards to WADA but I'm guessing it's on a country by country basis ... cricketers in Australia probably fall under the strongest WADA code/agreement but again, I can't be sure on that one. How many times are our cricketers tested and are there blood tests involved? Blood passports have been created in pro cycling but not many, if any sports have followed suit (Olympic sports aside) Anyway ... would you agree that most Aussies only seem to care about PED use when the story is away from our shores and we can point the finger? Would you also agree that Aussies tend to turn a blind eye when PED use happens here?

Awesome to have Saty back!

Neither have you. Welcome back, champ.

Being a defender for Melbourne over the last few years would have been a bloody tough gig. Sure he has made a few stuff ups but in most games he would be under constant pressure as Melbourne received its usual belting. He has stuck it out honourably and honestly. Good on him!!

nice to have you back saty

WJ Yes,new employment involves shift work, so been to a few training sessions, you will find pics on Twitter, still talking to the players, and still having my scooter stolen/moved by Max Gawn Had a break from this place

I am tipping the entire 2016 season for all 34 players Not sure what management should get. Doc Reid should be struck off i know that!!

What I don't like is that our club still try's to get itself up for certain games. I'm sick of hearing that the Collingwood game is our biggest game of the year. We have players who still don't come to play every week. We need to set ourselves for every game, when did we last beat Hawthorn/North/Port/Eagles?? We can't simply wait until these teams slide before we think we're a chance. Any player should debut when he is ready not be held back for some trivial reason. If it just so happens to be against Collingwood or should we make finals this year or next so be it. I'd rather play a first year player who has earned the right rather than go with a senior player who has had years to perform and deliver nothing. 90% of talent on this list is 23 or younger.

Girlfriend got down there for her first training session after I successfully convinced her over the xmas break to change from the Saints to the Dees. She's still learning all the players, but she took some great snaps! I will upload them at some stage this afternoon!

Have been rewatching the some old games on the AFL Live app on the IPad. I was watching our last win in 2014. Round 13 where we beat Essendon by 1 point. That games was more Essendon lost it more then we winning due to some poor goal kicking from them. We were able to grab momentum back when we lost it and hold on for the win. Round 13 2014 10 games later our next win Round 1, 2015 versus Gold Coast was a game where we truly beat our opponents down. They tried coming back but we had all the answers and we won convincingly by 26. Round 1, 2015 The improvement in our footy between these two matches was incremental and it was gratifying to see that the hard work come to fruition in the first game of the season. 2014 was frustrating for us as I could see moments of good football surrounded by bad football. I could also see how it all has came together for the games we won. 2015 was less frustrating as those moments of good Football translated into 7 wins, but there were dark times also rounds 15, 17 & 21 (Essendon, Saints, Carlton) But on balance I am excited to see how our footy has improved from the last win in round 23 2015 GWS and to see who we beat first up this season. Roll on 2106 and Go the Dee's!

That North game is the important yardstick in all of that. I thought that last year for the first time we had North's measure. They jumped us in the first, we clawed our way back in the next two and outscored and outplayed them, then we ran out of legs in the last. We got our selection wrong (didn't Ben Brown get a few - five straight or something? - and we didn't have a match-up for him), and we got our structures wrong until we tightened up in the second and third quarters. In 2016, we have to beat North (do we get a second crack at them, or is Round 3 the only time?). I don't think we're ready to beat the top 3 or 4, but we really need to beat more of the "pretender" teams like North & Richmond & maybe even Port & WCE if we're going to really move forward in 2016.

I'm so excited I just can't hide it I'm about to lose control And I think I like it. Well, tha't's what the Pointer Sisters reckon.

Give me a massive a spell. We deride this generation for sitting the bum and playing video games. Old mate feels confident in the knee for a little shoot around, massively unlucky. I'll be putting money in him for rising star.

Oh my.... How did the bengals lose that!!! That hit by Burfict on Brown was absolutely moronic. Burfict was running around like a mad man after the hit Bernard took and he had that big sack on Ben and then and INT but he lost his cool in that final minute, absolute moron. Then the 2nd personal foul penalty was the final nail in the coffin... Don't feel sorry for the bengals though, completely there own fault

#illridewithyoubeelzebub

I like the way Col points out things that some players miss...

KC didn't really have to do anything at all. They just waited for hoyer to screw up again. Why Weeden wasn't put into the game is beyond me. The interceptions were way off from the intended receivers. I can see Brock Osweiller getting a big pay day to go to Houston or Cleveland if Manning plays next year.

Dutch discus thrower admits to using anabolic steroids ahead of Los Angeles 1984 Olympic gold medal win Add comment By Nick Butler Saturday, 9 January 2016 Dutch discus champion Ria Stalman has admitted doping during her career, including ahead of winning the gold medal at the Los Angeles 1984 Olympic Games. The 64-year-old, who retired from the sport soon after her Olympic triumph, revealed she used drugs in order to match rivals who, she claims, were also using similar products. "During the final two years of my career, I daily used a light dosage of anabolic steroids," she told Dutch public broadcaster Nederlandse Omroep Stichting. "I wanted to beat them badly. "I then thought: the only way was that if you can't beat them, join them." This supposedly came only at the end of a decade-long career in which she won 15 discus and shot put golds at various editions of the Dutch National Championships. She won gold in Los Angeles with a mark of 65.36 metres, but had set a personal best of 71.22 shortly before the Games. This remains the Dutch record today and makes her the 17th longest thrower of all time. Ria Stalman is the 17th longest thrower of all-time behind East German world record holder Gabriele Reinsch ©Flickr She was also named The Netherlands' Sportswoman of the Year in 1984. It is not completely clear why she has decided to come clean more than three decades after the Games, except that the admission "gives her some relief" and will, she hopes, finally draw a line on the issue. It appears unlikely she will be stripped of her gold medal, because the 10 year Statute of Limitations on doping cases has long passed. Silver in LA went to home favourite Leslie Deniz while Romania's Florența Crăciunescu took bronze. The revelation comes as the sport of athletics faces fresh allegations of doping after the World Anti-Doping Agency's Independent Commission published allegations of state-sponsored doping in Russia. There are still many suspicions about performances from earlier periods, including the 1980s. With the exception of 13th ranked Xiao Yanling of China, every woman above Stalman on the all-time discus list is from an ex-Soviet bloc country, with all having set their best mark between 1980 and 1992. Many of these throwers were absent from Los Angeles 1984 due to the Soviet Union-led boycotts. East German world record holder Gabriele Reinsch set her best mark of 76.80 in Neubrandenburg in 1988, nearly six metres further than the best throw of the 21st century. She has never admitted cheating despite many suspicions given the revelations about state sponsored doping in East Germany in the 1970s and 1980s.

I just have this feeling we are going to get our MELBOURNE back this year.....

How Liam Pickering is given airtime escapes me. Nothing he says is worth listening to.

We know who the 34 are and Melksham is one of them ... we could assume that those who refused to take part in the injection of the "possible" PED's aren't part of the 34. Including rookies, Essendon had a total of 46 players on their list going into the 2012 season. So 12 players weren't charged ... (including Zaharakis and Hal Hunter*) Here is their 2012 list and here are the 34 who were charged *Although not charged, Hunter is still pursuing the EFC (and the AFL) through the courts.

Thanks everybody for your comments, especially DeePick's report and Die Hard Demons girlfriend's photos. I also managed to take in Proper Gander's partly completed and somewhat esoteric report on Bigfooty. Dazzle, I know it wasn't up to your expectations but there's a bit to read between the lines and apparently more to come. The good news is that Tasmanlvr hasn't left the scene entirely; rather, he's doing summer school at uni (I did that myself one year and it was fascinating) and will probably be back in action after the Aussie Open. My observation is that we've come a long way from pre season training in the last 50 years (in those days it started in late February) since the late, great Norm Smith ordered full back Bernie Massey to shave off his mustache. If he were still coach today and given that he would be the oldest coach in the competition at 100 that's unlikely, the old disciplinarian would surely be bewildered at the amount of facial hair young Roos is permitting his players to get away with (and I mean you in particular Gawny). Not long ago when I wrote that piece on the Weidemans, I checked out some stats and I was amazed that key forwards like Murray Weideman and Norm Smith were barely taller than 6 foot in the old scale and shorter than many of the midfielders running out there at Casey yesterday morning. Blokes of that height never had to do so much running in an entire season, let alone what they have to in January these days. And on top of the running, there's a lot of strength work to be done as well which was demonstrated by some pictures I saw from earlier in the week of young Sam contesting a mark against 20 year old Jesse Hogan. Smithy's teams were always imposing in terms of height and size, not to mention skills and discipline so it was good reading that part of DeePick's report. I did make it down to Casey Fields at this time two years ago with my grandson on a very hot summer's morning (the only other people there were from the Salem family) and I don't remember as much evidence of the height and size factor then, yet I came away wearing the same rose coloured glasses that I have at this point in every season. Perhaps, it might be justified this time around.

Here are some pics from todays session ! I reckon my gf did a pretty good job, considering 1. She's never been to a training session in her life and 2. She's not a photographer. Enjoy guys! https://deestraining.smugmug.com/Dees-Training-Casey-Fields/

Love the bloke! Even more so after he re-signed, and gave a couple of drive-bys to players that have left through FA. Started training early with the young blokes too, we need more players like him.

Well whatever the problem is, and considering our track record of treating injuries. I fear the worst.

Just got back home from training. While overall standard was up, there was an increase in size to our rehab group with Dawes and Frost now joining the other pre-Xmas regulars - but given what they were doing with running, I suspect they are not major issues. The big disappointment was no CP5 - although someone did say they saw him on the bike. Brayshaw, Trengove and Dom Tyson looked like they must be getting close to rejoining the main group, while Spencil, Dawes and Jetta did plenty of running so not major concerns I think and Vince has to wait a couple more weeks for finger to heal properly. Only Frosty looked to be given a very limited program, so he's one that now appears unlikely for first pre-season game, although we still have almost two months. A fair bit of running was done and not that much hard tackling work - overall it was more of a fitness session, so it was hard for players to stand out - Watts still wins the short sprints though, while T-Mac had trouble containing Grimes, Jones, Melksham and a few others in the 150m repetitions. Salem was in the best group with T-Mac, which is a good sign. The highlight for me was watching Gawny smash the remedial runners group across the other side of the ground. That group included Dunny, Jeffy, Kent, so big Maxy is looking the part.