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Popped by for about an hour. Didn't see Dawes, Lumumba, Frost or Trengove. Did see Brenton Sanderson, Shifter and Cal Twomey. So many drills with different groups it's kind of hard to report on what was happening unless you take notes. Certainly nice to see Brayshaw, Tyson and Garlett doing some ball work as well as runs. Jones, ANB and Petracca had a bit of kick to kick at the end with Crossy taking turns to shadow defend one of them as they led off. Fair to say Petracca knows how to mark on a lead. Hulett impressed me of the new boys, good size, lovely kick. Joel Smith was with them for a fair few drills. Weideman kicks well on his left. Nothing wrong with Oliver's physique. Wagner was with the main group. The usual drills all focused on fast ball movement. A full ground drill featured 2 teams going head to head in non stop footy with no stopping for marks. Vanders was prominent in the midfield, and Viney. Billy Stretch found the ball in space. Bugg got the ball at half back a bit. JKH was involved. The one player who really made things happen was Hunt, using his burst of speed through the middle. But he does seem a bit one dimensional and his kicking isn't fluent, so I'm temper expectations but still he showed a bit. Ben Kennedy moved well to get in to space. With at one stage Grimes refusing to handball to him until it was late enough to be a hospital handball. That said Jack did kick nicely a couple of times. The thing with BK is every now and then he misses a kick or fumbles a handpass. I wonder if it's just confidence and belief, because he does have good skills. I think he needs to just relax and slow down a bit. Melksham was very impressive running and using the ball well from half back.

I went down there around 10 until the end of training. I must say I had a little boy with me who his fav player is garlett as both aboriginal and after a couple of photos with him found out by Brayshaw that Garlett is his fav player got a trainer to bring him back his hat signed. very grateful. Also Christian Petracca had a conversation with my child (5) and called him mate then girl then man and as Tom Bugg and Ben Kennedy came for a chat he then realized and said, "I just realized I called him a girl ( mind you he looks nothing like a girl) and they proceeded to say he will be a ladies killer and he has hair like Harmsey. Moral of this story I love how much these guys put time and effort into talking to people and children. Hogan was great with him. Anyway back to training! I saw Trengove and Harry O at about 10.15 heading towards AAMI so they were down with that training part. I really love how Harmsey goes about his footy. Super fit and tackling machine. If he stuffs up he backs himself to keep trying. Does not give up on himself. Garlett, Tyson and Brayshaw just running and hand balling to each other nothing to much for them Spencer and watts were running laps all day Tom McDonald leading the way with running so was Harmsey. Viney looked to struggle at the back also last one off the track kicking for goals but unsure if he was abit sore or not today didn't look 100% Only time I saw Vince was when he was walking off. Unsure who it was, I am 95% sure it was Hunt but if so this kid looks good! Gets himself into good positions and doesn't mind taking on people. Jetta was tackling very well. JKH running was ok but seemed to drop off a lot as time goes on. Tries to take on to many people when there's better options and gets tackled. Hogan this kid I swear is a beast! No one can get past him. Moved well and only had eyes for the ball. As for Melksham he did alright but may be trying to impress a bit to much. Did a few things wrong that should have been easy but better now then during a game. Stretch moved well and got into space very quick and he likes to get the play moving. Weideman looked wrecked at the end but hey so would I! If I remember anything else I will post

I bowled a long to training for a while. I didn't stay for long so I'm sure others can add more. A photographer was there as was a cameraman so there might be photos from AFL media and footage on the news (don't know which one). Players in rehab or being rested: Dawes, Prince, Spencil, Garlett, Watts, Frost, Tyson, Brayshaw, Trengove, unidentified stick (possibly AFL Academy trainee). These guys did modified training and or ran laps. Trengove was doing some light drills. Good to see him do more than just running. Patracca did a good deal of the main training but went off to an adjacent oval when the full ground ball movement work was being done. Garlett (his mrs and kid were there), Tyson and Brayshaw did some 150-ish meter run-throughs at some speed. Brayshaw lagged behind in all but one of the runs (except the last one). I assume then, he's coming from further back that the others. Looks bigger this season. I didn't really pick out too many of the newbies apart from Oliver, but only because he glows in his pastiness. His kicking seemed OK in the drill I saw him. Looked to be tiring the more each drill progressed - to be expected. So far so good. He, Hulett, Stretch, King (Mitch) and Garland were doing some forward drills. they all looked pretty good - standouts were Stretch and Oliver (not that they were doing a whole lot). I have read observations that Watts is being very vocal - I concur. Bugg looks to have settled in very well. I'll add more as I think of it. NB. Very hard to spot players with no names on their shirts and in hats.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-12-11/jones-retains-captaincy-for-2016

I think anyone with anything sensible or constructive to say has now said it.

A small morsel ... It's second hand from my brother, who was also at training (doesn't post here although he's been reading for nearly a decade). He said that in one section of the ground for those not joining in "full training", such as newbies and others on a modified program, a coach would throw the ball in the air, or on the ground and two players competed in a 1 v 1 contest to win the ball. For example, Oliver was pitted against ANB, and Jones and Petracca went head to head. Petracca and Jones pretty much squared the ledger. Oliver beat ANB at least 9 times out of 10. He was adamant it was that lopsided, such was Oliver's effectiveness.

My position on the bolded bit is the same as the 990 people; that's why the legal system has different sentences. My position on puppies is that I find them cute and adorable. My position on anchovies is that I think they have their place, but I don't want to overdo them because they have a very strong taste. Nobody is arguing that point .... you only think they are because you need to find something to oppose Stuie on. Unfortunately you are fighting a war that nobody else is bothering to fight, because it is irrelevant. You are getting indignant that nobody is answering your question, but nobody is answering it because it isn't a very good question. In dot point form: Dustin Martin did something bad. You said that at least he didn't do something worse. Everyone said, "Who cares, because what he did was really bad" You then got into a huff and said "Why don't you agree that murder is worse than threatening to kill?" Everyone ignored your question because it was irrelevant. I hope I've made this thread easier for you to follow.

This thread is already really long and I haven't had time to add my thoughts, but since stuie seems to be taking everyone on all on his own, I thought that I'd just say that I have agreed with every word of his that I've read so far. Short summary of my views which I'm too tired to really debate: Martin is out of control and anything less than a sacking is getting off lightly It is in absolutely no way, shape or form the woman's fault for provoking him or such You're contributing to our culture of excusing violence if you think it is in any way, shape or form her fault If you think she should have gone to the police and kept her mouth shut in public, you're woefully naive about how much interest the police would have in this kind of matter If you started a post with "he shouldn't have done it, but...", you've said all I needed to hear and I read no further All violence is bad and is a problem, but male (domestic) violence against women is issue #1 at present. That isn't devaluing the issues others face or mean others don't need/deserve support, but this is the most prevalent issue and therefore the most urgent issue

I just assumed he was already the captain. Well deserved none the less.

I agree with sentiment but unfortunately acknowledge the reality. I do agree with the focus of the PUBLIC message should strongly be "if you attack you will be dealt with". Privately I tell my daughters how to stay safe from what is an unfortunate reality. I suppose the other issue is - do we really need to tell men not to attack women ? or more precisely - do you think that a message to a guy who attacks women would make any difference. So it's a case of message of how rational, normal woman can stay safe as opposed to a message to deranged individuals who think it is acceptable to attack women. Stuie - I agree with everything you have said. Whilst there are many issues in this debate anything that deflects from THE issue or lessens its centrality- being a (drunk) bloke threatening a woman ( with violence) is wrong in my mind. I just have to acknowledge that we live in sad times that we find it necessary to consider changing our "normal" behaviors because of the "Abnormal ( read abhorrent)" behaviors of others.

Totally agree Akum, Also anyone who bothers to attend training and then report to the rest of us deserves thanks. Pretty selfless stuff.. Sure let their be questions but not criticisms. So far the training reports have been great and provide interesting observations devoid of ego. Well done guys and thanks.

I went to one training session this year and in 2013. The intensity and skill level was like chalk and cheese. I must congratulate the coaching staff for this change and hope it will translate into wins?

you forgot about Paul Roos' appointment

Appreciate it if you could provide this service on every thread - very useful, thanks.

Have agreed with nearly everything you say on this topic stuie. However on the subject of suggesting to woman not to walk alone at night is victim blaming, I don't agree with that. For me it's just common sense safety advice. I say the same thing to my wife. My parents even said it to me many a moon ago when i first started going out after i turned 18 and i'm a man. Telling someone not to walk alone at night isn't anymore victim blaming then telling someone to buckle up when they get in a car. Edit: Restructure of sentence. Didn't make sense,

Sorry C&B, I'm also with Bob here, and with those he's supporting. Nobody has said that he should be punished as if he actually had stabbed her, or killed her, which he apparently threatened. One poster made the point that in some circumstances the threat of violent assault can have similar psychological effects as if the assault had actually occurred. But that's not the same. Another poster made the point that the line between threatening to assault and actually carrying it out can be very fine, especially in someone who's intoxicated. But that's not the same either. Both of them are very good points. A number of us have a problem that you're giving the impression of wanting to minimise what he did. That may not be the impression you want to give, but that's what's coming across loud and clear. Mainly because you seem to want to hammer the point again and again and again. If you don't want to keep giving the impression that you're trying to trivialise Dusty's actions, then it's wise to top hammering this point.

C&B, your are sorely out of touch with this issue. Stuie is right; by focusing on what he didn't do (commit murder) you are devaluing what he actually did do (a serious crime). If I called up your family and threatened to kill them by detailing graphically what I would do to each one of them, then I have committed a very serious crime - End of story. Arguing that I didn't fly a plane into the twin towers is completely irrelevant .... as is your argument.

I'm just excited when our team manages to kick more than 100 points in a game. Lets start there and then aim for bigger things.

Supporting the Dees should be mandatory for all new MCC members. They would need to furnish current MFC membership card and answer a series of Demons-related trivia questions. That would ensure standards are maintained and barracking for the correct team. It would also resolve the long waiting lists.

The Provendor next door makes a delightful mango smoothie. As good as a meal. They do a berry milkshake and will see if they can come up with a Raspberry and Blueberry version. Also very sorry to read of Jazza's passing. As a greater observer than contributor I always enjoyed his comments and observations. Many of his references struck home with me reminding me of glories past chasing the elusive waves down Johanna way and my formative years at the back end of the cow. What a pity he has only seen the beginning of the resurgence. May his memory stimulate us all. Go Dees

C&B, this is what you've got yourself so worked up about. You responded to monoccular's post about how bad Martin's actions were by saying "Let's not lose grasp of the fact that there is a gigantic difference between threatening something and actually doing it". Monoccular then said that the difference wasn't necessarily "gigantic", and then many others called you out for devaluing the incident by comparing it with a something else. It's simple, C&B. You went too hard, a number of people rightly called your out on it, and since then you have tried to attack everyone who disagrees with you in a vain attempt to save face .... especially since Stuie (who you have a historical beef with) has fallen on the correct side on this issue. If you wanted to weasel out of it, you should have said "I'm sorry, I think I phrased that badly. What I was meaning was ........" and then everyone would have accepted it and moved on. It's certainly a much better option than getting indignant and slagging off everyone.

In my dreams he becomes Nat Fyfe and plays anywhere he bloody likes.

This thread, while partly a good, respectful discussion about a very sensitive issue, also has thrown up some interesting tidbits from a range of posters... Posters on one side of the argument stating a poster on the other side has been "backed in to a corner". Poster/s constantly arguing a point ad nauseam (both for and against not fully for) to the point where they are getting personal. Stuie alone has contributed (and I use that term loosely) 85 posts to this thread. Axis of Bob is chipping away at C&B. All this in a thread about an alleged drunken/drugged grub allegedly threatening a female by using intimidating tactics. Anyone else seeing the irony on display?

There are a few sides to this story 'Nasher', and in most cases I don't thinks it's an either/or answer. The first is the generational and/or cultural issue, handed down through families/cultures and seen as the way things are done. The women as subservient, often treated with contempt, bashed, battered and abused for any perceived reason or for no reason at all. I hear a lot of noise but nothing positive seems to be being done to break the cycle of abuse. It will take a lot of time and action to fix this but all I'm hearing is talk and statistics. I'm not sure how you break this cycle and some of it is linked to other issues that make it impossible to fix unless they are dealt with. I think at the moment any awareness campaigns would only preach to those who already hold solid values in relation to not abusing women. Peer pressure seemed to be around when I was growing up, maybe an effort could be put into this area. So the other issues, and these are not gender specific. Also why I don't think this, apart from the first issue above should be treated as such. Even then they are often so interlinked. Alcohol & drugs; what do you do? So much domestic violence & violence in general is linked to this problem. It's a massive issue and if we could sort it then we would be a long way down the track to sorting out domestic and other violence issues, male or female. Mental illness is another real problem for us as a society but is often swept under the carpet. The system is broken and there are a lot of very broken people out there who are ticking time bombs. To me, violence for any reason whether by male or female is not acceptable. It's not something that comes with a pecking order such as violence against women is number 1. Unless we address the reasons/causes for violence in society as a whole we have no chance to fix the violence against women problem. It is all interconnected.

The one thing this last trade and draft period confirmed is that this club is no longer amateur and ad hoc in its decision making. It is super deliberate and has a clear strategy that it now actually seems able to execute. If we are still after Prestia, and if we have been for quite some time, I expect the club has devised a plan/proposal to attempt to secure him. If not, perhaps we have not been that into him (too exy in terms of cash or draft picks etc), despite the media reports.

It's an extreme point, but the point is, when you're in the position of the victim and someone with power over you threatens you, you've got no way of knowing if they're serious or not and the feeling of intimidation doesn't change. I grew up in a pretty rough area. I lived really close to school, so sometimes I used to walk home on my own. One day when I was about 9 or 10, an older kid started walking behind me. I started speeding up a bit, he started speeding up a bit. He followed me for two or three minutes, swinging a can on a chain, before he caught up to me. He asked me if I'd ever been bashed before, I said no. He said this was going to be my first time. I just stood there, shaking my head, teeth chattering. I begged him not to and started backing away slowly, but I was too terrified to run. He started edging toward me and I thought I was gone. I pissed myself on the spot. He then laughed, and went "I'm just joking, kid" and walked off. I ran home as fast as I could. I didn't think his joke was funny. I had never been so afraid in my life. Did I go "hey, it's fine, he didn't actually bash me?" Did my parents take that view? Fuck no. I was terrified of walking on my own anywhere for months afterwards. Months. Would I have been that much worse off if he'd *actually* bashed me? Maybe, but in my mind not much. The psychological damage was hard enough to recover from. Furthermore, I felt like a real dickhead for pissing myself, and for being scared of some guy who actually didn't really have any intention of hurting me, but how the hell was I supposed to know that at the time? He sure looked like he meant it. Threats of violence aren't akin to actually inflicting violence, but psychologically they can have a similar effect.

The club is all over Prestia and is quietly confident. The fact we traded out next seasons 1st round pick is of little consequence. We can trade 2017 first round for a start. If Prestia says he wants to be traded to Melbourne, he will be a Dee in 2017. Our performance this season is very important for Prestia and perhaps Hogan, but I also hear that contract negotiations for Hogan are going very well and he could be signed to a mega deal before round 1. Fingers crossed!!

I will take out a life subscription to Demonland and add 5 more to the tally in a fortnight when I return from Vietnam. GO DEES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank the Lord the AFL have got a plethora of top judges and solicitors available (now) at their disposal to help defend people that could stain the marketing product

After reading a lot of the goings on here - can I also make an appointment ? (my brain hurts)

You can delete the quote you just need to click in the text box just under the quote and press backspace. For some reason it doesn't delete then so you have to repeat the process. Click in the text box just under the quote and press backspace. The quote should be deleted

I know you aren't trying to weasel out of it, which is your main problem. You've instead decided to double down on a ridiculous point because you feel threatened. You saying that "we should not be treating Martin like he has murdered somebody, because he hasn't", is like saying that we shouldn't set ourselves on fire because we aren't flame resistant. Yes, that's true, but a) it's obvious, and b) it's not in any way relevant. In addition to this, your phrasing (" Let's not lose grasp of the fact that ....") devalued the actual crime by comparing it favourably with a more serious crime. This was the problem you had, and what you should be saying is: "I phrased it badly, but what I wanted to say is ..... " and then explaining that you found his actions awful and that he should face recrimination for them. Your language later in this post (and other posts) shows that you clearly care about what the other posters think of you. You are embarrassed to be losing an online argument to Stuie, who you and your mates (who, interestingly, have left you largely to yourself during your recent struggles in this thread) use as a whipping boy. You're trying to bluff with a high pair .... everybody knows, but you're just going to keep throwing in chips out of pride. The only person losing money is you.

So you're telling me he looks a lot like KB?

Just as an aside - I went to the ACDC concert on Sunday ( ugh...meh..) and when Angus got hot and sweaty he actually looked identical to your picture. He hasn't aged well. (but he can play guitar)

ManDee it was hidden by a mod because it BA's post deemed contained abuse, your post quoted that post, hence removed as well. When mods are on the fly they may get back to explain sooner or later. You guys have worked out why anyway. Playing the ball and not the man - post will often stand up. BA knows this as he indicated. Cheers boys.

I quoted you so that is probably why mine was removed. It's a good thing that we all love the same footy team or we would be at each other throats.

Will be interesting to see where Brayshaw and a few others are placed in terms of leadership over the next 2-3 years. We might actually have a variety of real leaders in the mix for capt and VC positions.

I have no doubt that Dean was appointed "because he was considered (by a clear margin) to be the best candidate for the job" but that's not inconsistent with my proposition. We were a poor club at the time and didn't have $1½m to splash around along with the AFL's full support in looking for the best and most experienced coach available as PJ had when the club appointed Paul Roos. Nor we we considered a destination club for coaches at the time. I have no conclusive proof for the claim but I expect available resources play a role when seeking out applicants for any job at any club and many would consider it fiscally irresponsible to do otherwise. I can only think of one other candidate at the time and that was Kevin Sheedy who most likely would have come with a higher price tag. Many would have been happy with his appointment - I think he would have been a poor choice. As to your assessment of what history was to show, that's very much a matter of interpretation. I think the jury's a long way from being out and while I agree that Bailey was treated shabbily, there was no shortage of shamefulness and indignity in the way in which many people behaved during that period and Bails wasn't the only one badly done by over the journey. At least he got almost 4 years of tenure which is more than many other coaches get in the industry. I'm hoping the book throws some more light on the subject and I might come back in time with my thoughts after I read it (I have a few others to read first though). I'm just thankful that most of the ghosts of that era have now gone and that the club has moved on from those days.

And he did that in around 8 minutes.....

Who cares what the penalty for murder is? It's completely irrelevant. It's like asking what the fine for jaywalking is .... it's not relevant to the argument at all. You have tunnel vision because you're worried that you look foolish in this thread. You are going harder at people now than you did at the start because you're cornered and scared. If you took a step back from it then you would understand it better, rather than simply opposing things because you're afraid of being on Stuie's side.

The problem with Frost and McDonald in the same backline is you then have 2 players whose kicking skills, footy smarts and intercept marking aren't all that flash. I think it can work if surrounded by 4 medium/small defenders with good skills and smarts, but we might not have that. Dunn as the 2nd tall and Garland the 3rd tall might be better short term options and Oscar Mc and Hulett might be developed as key defenders as well. He's certainly not a forward but does provide a potential short term option as a second ruck and then can mainly be used for his defensive skills when forward. Versatility ruins consistency but he could swap with Dunn or McDonald who then go forward in games. I like Frost, but until he starts playing regularly again I see him more as depth and a utility than a long term solution down back. He's yet to show he's more than just a good athlete.

I don't think that's been asserted by anyone. I can only speak for myself of course, but all I have tried to do is highlight why a threat of violence isn't something that should just be shrugged off, trivialised or excused.

I wonder if I sent a death threat to the Prime Minister, whether the police would go "hah! It's okay, he didn't *actually* kill the Prime Minister..."?

Demonland is at its best because the site actually allows dissent of opinion.

They're was even a photo of her in that post...Pretty simple really. Interestingly we will field a very different team next year if Frost, Trengove, Petracca and Salem all get on the park, not to mention Melksham and Bugg. That's over one quarter of the starting 22 as fresh faces.

Titus O'reilly has his say... Some fun defences of Dustin Martin Over the last few days we’ve heard some fun and creative defences of Dustin Martin threatening to kill a woman. Let’s look at these as like the incident, they’re hilarious! “He’s unlucky, we wouldn’t even know about this if he wasn’t a footballer.’ Quite possibly true, although you could argue if he wasn’t a footballer and his work found out about this incident he’d be sacked. I should mention that’s not me arguing that, I’ve spoken to employment lawyers and a head of HR for a major corporate and they all said that was the case. He could also have been referred to police and been charged. But it’s a fair point that if Dustin wasn’t a well known footballer this could have slipped away like so many violent episodes that go unreported. That really is just pointing out how prevalent and underreported violence against women is, it’s not a defence. Really, all you’re pointing out is how spectacularly stupid he is. “He wasn’t actually going to kill her.” Considering he can’t remember what happened due to his consumption of alcohol not even he knows what he could have done so this is a pretty big assumption and therefore a poor defence. “The guy was smashed and can’t even remember it happening” Is that a defence all of a sudden? If it is then everyone would just say that, whether it was true or not. If you are the type that drinks to the point you can’t remember anything and you threaten to kill people, you’re not arguing a defence, you’re arguing you’re a threat to society. “We’ve all made mistakes. Don’t get on your high horse.” We sure have all made mistakes. I bet very few of us have threatened a stranger in a restaurant with a chopstick, while telling them you’ll kill them and hitting the wall behind them though. That’s not a ‘mistake’ it’s assault. “She works for Channel Seven and wanted a story.” Yeah, this woman went out that night just trying to bump into a crazed, alcohol-fuelled footballer and get them to threaten to kill her. Women are so manipulative and they play such a long game! She then appeared on TV not showing her face and not revealing her name. What a publicity seeking trouble maker! Let’s side with the person threatening to kill people though. “People are overreacting.” Yeah, that’s what people have been doing about violence against women for so long, overreacting. I long for the day were our problem is overreacting to this scourge. We are so far from overreacting to violence against women you’d need NASA’s New Horizons probe to get there from where we are. Even 12 months suspended is therefore not enough for me. You threaten to kill someone you’re out of the game, this isn’t some borderline case. “Hodge only got two weeks, other players got this and that.” Personally, I think you’re on really shaky ground if the AFL’s appallingly bad record on punishments are the centre plank of your defence. What you’re actually pointing out is the whole problem. Footballers have never had the incentive to truly change their behaviour because deep down they know it’s not career ending. The sad thing is they’re right. Watch how quickly that all stops when one of them actually gets the punishment they would get in the real world. “The public humiliation is punishment enough.” It’s really not. In fact, the public condemnation has been weaker than American coffee. Brendon Gale said he was a ‘goose’ and Richmond football manager Dan Richardson described the incident as “a bit of a hiccup”. In fact, Dusty has received a fair bit of support from people, despite the fact hethreatened to kill someone. In conclusion, I’m resigned to Martin receiving some weak punishment like twelve weeks suspended (I’d loved to be proved wrong). But Richmond and the AFL, let’s all remember the next time you ape support for ending violence against women that when actually tested to underpin those words with action you didn’t.

I can't believe it was that difficult to understand!

Honestly, when I think of all the hours of effort Nasher and Andy put into this site over the years last decade or more, including WJ's and others contributions, the entertainment and knowledge re: our club it's given me, contributions like this to help them out just makes sense with thanks. Well done Demonlanders so far. Andy shouldn't have to feel "eeeek" by pushing the contribution wheelbarrow, so let's make it easy for them with continued thanks.

That's a decent Mozz if I ever heard one. Those sorts of things can become a lead weight and expectation. Forget that crap Jessie.

We've been gunning for Prestia for 2 years at least. He is out of contract next year. You'd have to have some confidence that the club has got a definitive strategy in place to get him to the club next year.