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Flashback... oh dear!

Whats the rush? No need to write off a 20 year old who is entering just his third preseason and has played just 22 games Hes a good player and makes smart decisions with the footy and is a nice kick Remember just about everyone had thrown Nev Jetta on the trash heap too. He was rookie listed, and now hes our best small defender and one of the best lock down defenders in the AFL

James Harmes has been promoted to the primary list. https://twitter.com/melbournefc/status/659141645401624576

Yet you had Toumpas ahead of Wines just prior to the draft In fact, you had Toumpas as a standout of that draft and you wanted the club to draft him ... you had him in front of Stringer as well. Post #69 of this thread

Whitfield was the standout. Wines was NOT a standout. He was considered blue collar , skill wise, with the main concern that his large frame had enabled him to excel against smaller kids and that advantage would disappear at AFL level. I would hate this forum to be charged with writing Australian history. The rewriting of player facts on here is extrordinary

I was just about to write a complimentary post about D'Landers discussing a player in an adult way and then along comes Olisik...

Actually - you are positively agreeing with what I was suggesting. I am sure that our recruiters watch plenty of games and do all the homework you are suggesting. Even from your homework of watching more than two minutes of youtube footage you have pointed out that Francis lacks the consistency of Parish. This will never become obvious from a 2 minute highlight reel. From last years crop - Laverde 2 minute grab was fabulous - Brayshaws, to my mind, was underwhelming. Even the selection of footage is interesting in us forming opinions - there was two lots of highlight footage for Petracca - the most viewed one showed very iffy disposal, the second highlights reel showed the exact opposite. I live fairly close to the Oakleigh chargers ground - last year there was Melbourne Metro "intra" practice season in the middle of the year and i was blown away that even for a practice season there was 10 groups of recruiters that I actually noticed there. We have recruiters that watch lots of games and still not get it right and yet we have posters who are quite adamant on who we should take ( and scathing if we don't take said recruit) based on 2 minutes of youtube footage. It is sheer folly. I will reignite the Wines/Toumpas debate - recruiters see an enormous amount of junior football. There was universal agreement that Toumpas was a top 2-4 pick with Wines being not as highly rated. This is by guys who watch a lot of football. It was not a horrible mistake that Toumpas was selected by us - it is a horrible outcome that Wines turned out to be so good and Toumpas a bust.

Just watching the Country v Metro match, the thing to note with Parish, his 'point of difference' or whatever you want to call it, is that he makes good decisions incredibly quickly and he just doesn't fumble. One of the reasons why Toumpas struggled is that he struggled to find space with the extra pace of AFL and got stuck with the footy. Parish, on the other hand, is just so quick with his decisions that he gets the ball and finds a great option before anyone has time to tackle him. It's an underrated skill, but is very important at AFL level, especially when he can also be very creative at that speed. A bit like a rich man's AN-B.

oh dear doesn't begin to cut it - there is so much wrong with that post it is hard to know where to begin....

Those damn tests again. I want footballers. Tell me about Jack Watts' 20 metre sprint time again.

Typical case of 2nd year blues after what was an impressive debut season (especially 1st half of the year). I think JKH is more of a high half forward then crumbing forward pocket, think more in the Trav Varcoe mould. He just needs to learn to apply maximum forward pressure and take his chances when they present. I went to a Casey v Werribee match late in the year where nothing went right for JKH, couldn't get near the ball and didn't have an impact on the match. But his pressure,chasing and tackling was really good and it was pleasing to see the kid keep his head up and work hard even when the chips were down. He's got some work ahead of him and isn't currently best 22, but i wouldn't write him off just yet.

Agree...oodles of talent and started off playing with instinct. Then defensive coaching took the shine off that. An (obvious) on-field spray or two from Dawes in early games didn't help his instinctive play/confidence. Not sure whether the spray(s) were Dawes doing a hissy-fit or JKH not playing to team rules. Probably a bit of both. Clearly JKH needs to learn the defensive side and to play to 'team rules'. But hopefully these don't snuff out his instinct. I remember the story when leading into the 2014 season JKH kept asking (begging) Roos for games. That is serious enthusiasm which Roos rewarded. Atmo he is ironing out a few weaknesses at Casey. There will be more competition next year for a senior spot but I think we will see his flare on the 'G' again. Once back he will be difficult to dislodge.

That's a fair summation of the "point of difference" between Parish as a junior and the player Toumpas turned out to be at Melbourne but what concerns me is that if we draft Parish, will we be able to successfully ensure his transition from a "jet" at junior level to an elite player in the AFL? There are no guarantees but the set up at the club under Paul Roos and the system of development with both coaching and fitness gives me some comfort. Kevin "Shifter" Sheahan said about Parish that he's the "jet" of this year's draft pool and that in most years there are only one or two such players. My concern is that in the past we have drafted "jets" but routinely failed the transition process. You can put all of Johnstone, Sylvia, Watts, Scully and Toumpas in that category - for one reason or another be it their temperament, ego, injuries and our own lack of ability, personnel or facilities and the club environment, we never got the best out of them. Since the arrival of Roos and subsequently McCartney, we appear to be on the path to getting it right which means that whoever we take, the mistakes of the past are less likely to be repeated. Players like Hogan, Salem and Brayshaw are already the beneficiaries, hopefully Petracca, Stretch, Parish and a few others will be added to that list in the very near future.

Dear god, stop. You are going from thread to thread talking in absolutes about how we MUST take player X or we'll be STUPID to take player Y. You've now confirmed that you are basing your opinions on highlight reels. You are in no position at all to be making such grand statements. If you are doing it purely for possible bragging rights about certain players that we don't pick, just save it. No-one cares. They really don't.

I like this, a lot. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-28/indigenous-round-honour-for-one-of-the-games-aboriginal-pioneers

Home games against Essendon, Carlton and Hawthorn. No Etihad home games. NT games against interstate sides. Home game against Geelong. Play Collingwood twice. 2x Friday night games. 2x Saturday night games. No Sunday 4:40pm games. No 1:10pm game on Mother's Day.

I'd like to see proof of that. Most media types and the pseudo experts on the internet had him as the consensus #2 pick for most of the year.

They are OK highlights. They show that he has a good sized, mature body and is much more powerful than 17 year old kids. I'm not sure it tells me a lot else. But, if you want to treat yourself, these are real highlights: Real Draft Highlights

No...

You're a spud.

Please let the Darwin game come in the round before our bye. It seems such an obvious choice, but never seems to happen.

Yes, I am just playing around. But your original point is that there were some who didn't want Toumpas but even you had him in that conversation. I remember being emotionally invested in a kid called Ollie who was best mates with Jack, but it didn't happen - the Captains of Hindsight tell me it didn't have to be this way if only the grown ups were in charge but really, this Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL makes a child of the most notable expert. Toumpas was a terrible draft decision but we didn't reach and make a mistake - we made the 'safe' decision on a talent that isn't suited to footy in 2015 that all the 'experts' thought would be better than what he has shown.

Some good points. Just on the Toumpas/Wines talk, I still firmly believe that the book is still open. It'll be interesting to revisit the debate at the end of their careers but I have no doubt Toumpas will eventually show why he was so highly rated. He's a confidence player, we played him too early in his career with a limited pre-season and coming off hip surgery. It was basically a horrible snowball effect. He will play his best footy with Port and I think the change is what will contribute to that.

He reminds me of a young Bert Newton.

Under normal circumstances I would agree, but while we might have had a quiet chat with GC and Lions, I find it hard to believe that Essendon would be giving out anything - except perhaps misinformation.

Flattery might get you into a lot of places but I somehow don't believe that Mr. Hannibal is going to respond to you.

Terlich has never had a 3year contract.He had his initial two year contract for 2013/14 where he came 3rd in the Bluey in 2013 and played 14 games in 2014. Then received a two year contract for 2015/16 at the end of 2014. I agree he should have only got a one year extension, but the constant talk of him ever receiving 3 years is simply misinformed.

I really hope they keep michie

Pick 40 20 years old Played 22 games in two seasons Shown dare which is interpreted as poor decision making by many I would've thought that's a pretty good report card for that this point of a career. However, he's a bottom six best 22 player when he manages to get a game and that's where our depth lies within the list and turning blokes over like JKH every couple of years will not help develop the team.

But he also kicked 40 goals. Small forwards can survive on low possessions if they make the ones that they do get count.

Definitely, even down to his flaxen locks. If we do draft him, and he turns out to be another 'stinger', all of us here (including the perennial 'Demonland doubters') will be over the moon!

Maybe he was 2003 - 2013. (Hey, just joking Olisik. Call my people. We'll do lunch)

In hindsight, potentially the worst post in DL history. Toumpas and Garlett instead of Hogan... the club would have been dissolved by now if Olisik was in charge of recruiting.

Yeah I do jnr! Good call IMO. His ball drop and kicking are very similar. Thanks for these links on Parish guys and AoB for his recent post on the links yesterday, or day prior. I can see why Parish is highly rated and have no issue with selecting him. This draft is touted as shallow by many, and I'm pumped that our footy guru's netted picks 3 and 7. Pretty comfortable with all the prospects tbh.

JKH always had ok pace, without being exceptionally quick for a player of his size. As a junior he was good in traffic with great agility and his sidestep got him out of traffic nicely. With good endurance and generally good game awareness and vision (with a neat kick to back it up), his game always suggested he’d be better suited to a midfield or high half forward role than an out and out Garlett type fwd pocket crumber. I think if he graduates into this type of role, we’ll see the best of him, but it did feel like his year was stilted through injury. He missed a decent chunk of the season, so I don’t think we got a really fair idea of where he’s at. Does need an injury free season in 2016, because he does have a few direct competitors for that role in Kent and Kennedy.

Just seems like one of those guys that was quicker and more slick than all the other juniors, but has taken a while to realize that's not the case anymore at AFL level. He's not quick, at all, now that he's in the speed of the seniors, and seems to have struggled to improve his awareness so far. However, he does seem a "competitor". He runs hard, he tries to make things happen, and he chases. I don't see him getting any quicker, but if we can improve his awareness he will go a long way to being regular 22 as I believe his skills and fitness will naturally improve as they do for most kids that are willing to work hard. Let's remember, he was a 3rd round selection, so shouldn't place too much pressure on him just yet.

I've heard Roos state many times that: - he loves players with clean hands; and - he hates players who fumble whom he calls 'coach killers' as they become turnover machines.

Every once in a while Titus O'Reily delivers something brilliant, which is a welcome relief from the drudgery of AFL media in general. Mostly he just drops in a steady flow of routine humour on the basis of a 'lovingly jaded' attitude. Which is also actually kind of refreshing given the AFL media mainstream. Important thing to understand is that his main space is twitter, so his job isn't to make you rofl or even lol, just add a little smirk as you flick through all the other dross. He's only asking for half a second, don't expect too much back!

Best strategy has to be take best available, regardless of postional need. In this era of player movement, a graders are 'currency'. we can always trade out surplus a graders for proven players of a certain position the following year. Draft must be treated as a way to accrue currency. Trade period to be used to fill holes in the list.

Selling him well. I think it might have been Healy who said the first thing to look at in a junior player to determine whether they will make it or not is how often they fumble the ball. Look at Brayshaw as a prime example. Hardly ever fumbles.

Jesse Hogan is going to love him delivering the ball inside 50...

Incidentally, both Parish and Mathieson were All Australian Under 18s in both 2014 and 2015. I would be delighted if we could add them both to our midfield stocks.

regardless of your top 20 and how you made the right call on Toumpas, he was definitely considered a top 10 prospect at the very worst, and was not a surprise pick up. Jordie Gysberts on the other hand was one from left field, "a clearance machine" with the new age prototype for height, just had the inability to try in the gym and on the track. i am just hoping we call Parish with the first pick and then take the next available, hopefully Curnow as i dont think much of the other one

Why else trade up to pick 3 if not to get Parish? Whether we traded up or kept our original picks we probably would have a 50/50 chance that one of Curnow or Weideman would get past Essendon, but there's zero chance of Parish getting through.

Titus talking about being a Demon is so right....

I really hope so....I love Jack. At his best, he was such a damaging player.

What I do know (besides the speculative nature of drafting) is that many are basing opinions on youtube and other footage. All the early "experts" to a man have Parish going before Francis. I would ask you then to look at the video's of both Francis and Parish and I don't think any judge of football would put Parish in front of Francis based on the footage I've seen. What it tells me is not that Francis is a better proposition than Parish but rather to take the clips of these players with a grain of salt - fun viewing but hardly something to formulate a concrete opinion on draft choices.

Wholeheartedly disagree. Haven't heard his programme but some of his written work is hilarious. Definitely one of the sharper wits in footy.

Don't want to start a new thread on this, but this has me fuming: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/2016-afl-fixture-carlton-blues-will-not-feature-on-friday-night-20151026-gkj6qs.html Not that Carlton wont have Friday night exposure, but that supposedly an additional "5 or 6" clubs wont have Thursday or Friday night games. Surely that is a load of [censored] or the AFL are an absolute disgrace. They talk of equalisation, but if this is true, it would mean that 12 teams are getting all the prime slots, meaning that they get massive exposure benefits which leads to increased sponsorship and membership which will ultimately make the competition more uneven. I'm hoping its not true, as it is a most short-sighted decision which cripples clubs like ours time and time again. I wait with bated breath to see what the actual fixture looks like......

Entitled to your opinion, though I think picking 18 year old prospects is a speculative business by definition. There's only so much reliable data that you can have at this stage anyway, and that can be greatly reduced when a prospect misses time with injury. A lot of what recruiters look for is how good will they be, not how good are they right now. Theres a number of them that think Curnow could be the best of the crop. Very few would have picked guys like Fyfe and Bontempelli to shine brightest in their draft crop. Purely on what theyd produced at under 18s level, there was little to suggest they would develop into anything approaching the players theyve become. You have to look beyond figures (not saying they arent helpful) sometimes and work out what sort of player they'll be in three or four years time. That's not particularly easy. I've seen Curnow play a few times and seen him play some good games and some bad. There aren't many kids who I would call 'can't miss' prospects this year (the high end academy kids and Weitering maybe) and there is an element of risk with Curnow. I will say there are parts of his game up forward that remind me of Paddy McCartin (who is at last check the same height), and I think he can perform similarly up forward. Ultimately I think he has greater scope for development than Paddy, who went number 1 last year ahead of Brayshaw and Petracca. That's pretty appealing in my eyes, and I can see why he's in the mix with Parish.