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I genuinely believe this was the smartest and most logical thing for us to do with a player like the Toump. Firstly, we'll be getting rid of 5-6 genuine battlers. Players who literally do not possess the required fundemental skills to play the game. Toumpas actually possesses the fundemental skills of the game. He is a great kick with great vision and decision making skills. What he's not great at yet is having a sense of confidence in himself or in the way that he plays which effects things like his decision making etc. If we were to put him on the trade table, we'd be getting not much back obviously because he hasn't shown what he's capable of. Another second/third-round draft pick is not what we need. We need to cull the genuine dirt and crap. We need to bring in some ready made talent as well as some experience through trades and we need to nail the drafts again. Both national and rookie. Toumpas is still a [censored] kid. Getting rid of him now actually doesn't make any sense from an MFC list standpoint. I'm not saying that he will definitely make it. But I believe he has more hope of making it than a host of others who are just down-right below the grade. Let's see what another pre-season with Macca does for him. He has the skills. He needs the mind for it. That's all.

For God sakes if we can keep Matt Jones, McKenzie and Bail on our list for many years surely we can give the Toump a chance to develop. He has far more upside than those guys.

No, it wasn't Jimmy's fault. There were a heap of mistakes before that ball ended up in Montagna's hands. Unfortunately Jimmy seems to take the blame on board and he needs to get rid of this type of thinking and move on quickly.

I argue the free was not there. But uts typical of the way that the umps completely mis-adjudicate things time and time again. The rule was brought in to stop Lindsay Thomas and Adam Goodes style sliding into contests on their knees and taking out opposition players legs and coming from the opposite direction. I think this is totally different to what happened yestrday. Jones was receving the ball, fumbled and lurched fwd after it. That unco idiot Dawson was running behind Jones and cannoned into him collecting him in the head with his knee. He could have jumped over him, stopped or tackled him. He had plenty of time but is so awkward that he fell over Jones. That is not what the rule is for and it is a disgrace that ball players are penalised for that.

Not yet anyway. Still hoping to get picked up at the age of 30.

Dwayne Russell has serious issues with MFC. His article in The Sunday Mail was over critical of MFC culture and recent history and he went as far as suggesting that Roos is wasting his time. Whilst our long term on field mediocrity may support his opinon, he failed to acknowledge that at least MFC is taking positive action by engaging the best credentialed and available coach along with the best available administration. His commentary today was B grade at best. He was over critical of Melb players and credited good moments for the Melb players to Freo taking it easy. His opinions are very rich for a guy who was part of a team who earned the label of "The Handbags" and for a bloke who was as soft as butter in 1984 SANFL GF when he was playing for a team that was supposed to be invincible only to be beaten by a team which came from 5th. Russell is an absolute [censored] with no credentials!

I was watching from behind the goals yesterday and paid close attention to Hogan. Don't know if he does this every week, but the thing that stood out for me is that he hardly ever leads from the goal square. Seems like he just likes to play from behind and point in the general direction of where he wants the ball bombed in so that he can try to use his body strength to nudge his opponent under the ball. This strategy came majorly unstuck yesterday because Freo had a veritable forest of tall defenders that just chopped off our slow long bomb entries. Infuriating. Hogan needs to lead hard and demand the footy in more dangerous positions if he's ever going to be a great full forward.

Michie & Newton, as big standard as they are, are still a step up from Bail & Matt Jones imo.

His name is Dwayne Enough said.

Criticizes OP for only listing one out. Only lists one out.

Jack Viney is a 21 year old midfielder who is getting better every week. His disposal is improving and he was fantastic (again) today: 30 disposals and 13 tackles. It is a joy watching him play.

Pleased the club has backed him. I'll admit that a small to medium part of the reason I want him to make it is just to spite all the "supporters" who have pilloried him endlessly.

Jay Clark just reported on triple m that he will sign a new 2 year deal and will be announced this week. Personally i am wrapped that the club will continue to show faith in him. I still see him as an important member for our future going forward. I know for a fact Goodwin is a big wrap for the kid and hopefully he will be able to turn him into the player we all hope to be.

Demonland posters and members in general can help as well by attending positive thinking and anger management courses....

After being trashed all week by the media and theuir own supporters They come out and concede the first ten goals And some here are happy with it We truly are a pathetic club destined to die

Tom McDonald needs to play within his limitations and take the first option.

Gee whiz, ive been drifting away from demonland a lot over the past few months, can't handle the total rubbish that is bandied about on here. Roosy gets ripped in to about negativity but you read through even the first two pages of this thread (which is all I could bear to read) and how can you possibly deny it. I saw great effort in that first quarter today, unfortunate drop off in the first 10 of the second quarter and a excellent commitment to get back in to the game thereafter. But so many people on here want to find other reasons for the levels final half... "They went in to cruise control". Just ridiculous, can't even pay credit where it's due for your old team. It's hard watching at times, but all I ever ask for going in to the game is effort, and I'll be happy. I didn't watch yesterday's game on x2, I enjoyed large parts of it.

You have to be kidding. Not a fan but his two OOFs and blatant (he does it every week) collapse into the back of a Freo player are the sign of an incompetent player. Should not go near our side ever again. Oh and did I mention he had 1 possession up until half time?

I can't believe people are even critiquing a first gamer. Extraordinary.

a bit disappointed in the criticism of Viney the guy is usually at the bottom of a pack shovelling the ball out TOWARDS our goals as best he can without a lot of support and usually under a lot of pressure from opposition players. His attack on the ball and tackling of opposition players is first class, he will get better with time.

Take away the first qtr and i thought we had a genuine crack. Especially considering we had only 2 on the bench after half time. Its our simple skill errors that continue to kill us..

When did I say you had to accept it. We haven't been improving for 9 years nobody thinks that, well they shouldn't In 2010 I thought we were improving and we were, some very bad decisions by those who shouldn't have been making them had massive implications on our club from the end of 2010 & through 2011. 2012 & 2013 we all know about and that set this club back so far it isn't remotely funny I am not trying to convince myself of anything I am realistic and this is where we are at. We are into our second season of our rebuild, forget about the previous ones they were not done correctly and this is what you end up with. We are now at where we were around 2011, what we wont do under this FD or under PJ is make the mistakes of the previous board and FD. The decision on players in the past 2 off seasons have shown me that with the players we have targetted and who we have brought in. So when I say we have improved I base that on the team we were under Neeld and the team Roos inherited in 2014, I do not base that on the side of 2007. I also look at the season as a whole when talking about improvement We now have a leading ruckman with Gawn less than 40 games into a career who is showing rapid growth and ability to mix it with the best Hogan still very raw but our first forward to kick 40 goals in a season since what 2010/11, and he has had very little support against the leagues best tall defenders. We have him and he is one of these genuine stars who are game changers Garlett another forward closing in on 40 goals, I think our entire forward line of 2012-13 struggled to do that Brayshaw just a gun and a leader 20 games into a career and showing signs of tiring as many other 1st year players that age have year after year Viney leadership and developing the run with part of his game along with his hardness at the ball Nate Jones has had a down year and our midfield is performing better than it has in the last 3 years, youngsters must be stepping up TMac has petered out as the season went on but there was plenty to like about his form in the first part of the year Salem looked good early in the season and showed yesterday despite being horribly underdone the class and hardness he possess Vince up until the last 3 weeks probably one of the best run with mids in the AFL had a greta season Jetta - out the door under the previous coaching regime now look at him, ultra consistent over the last two seasons ANB - has shown enough IMO to suggest he will be a long term player in our side Vanders - one of the finds of the season gives us great hardness around the clearances and how we have missed him since he went down with injury Kent - I have been a critic of him not getting the best out of himself but until he went down with injury was showing great form and pace to really worry opposition sides Can't say I have seen a season's end in the last few years with as much as that to look back on

Mike was good on afl 360. Him and Gerard just roll off each other and was actually worth watching for once. Wish they made him a full time host with Whately..

Bit stiff on Newton there, I think his been okay this year. He's a goalkicker, people forget he had only played 4 games before coming to the club. He is defintly worth persisting with

I laughed at this: "Melbourne coach Paul Roos has warned club supporters of even more changes to on-field personnel over the off-season". 'Warning supporters" suggests we are going to get bad or disappointing news or be unpleasantly surprised. Really? Fact is, we can't wait for the axe to swing on anyone who has a poor attitude, can't follow instructions nor play for the team.

It's not the leg injury that ruined his career. Whether the club contributed to his bad attitude or not we'll never know, but his head was never in the right place to be a professional footballer.

Why would Freo go flat out after being 10 goals to Nil up?Top Spot secured. After that the only risk was injury The MFC got smashed again yesterday. Anything else is spin.

A new mantra " do not handball to the guy shepherding for you"

You have to laugh at the ppl who bemoan the fact we cant develop players and yet when a young player that has had injury troubles and is spending time in the two's to gain experience, find his feet etc smash the club for not sacking the player. These are the same ppl no doubt who wanted Nathan Jones gone after his first 3 yrs. There is a big difference between giving someone like Toumpas time and letting Matt Jones anywhere our team again.

How can anyone be anything but positive about Vineys game today? I am flabbergasted that you found a way to be negative on this. Even Cross, "disappointingly our best". What the hell does that mean? Why disappointingly? And people question how Roos could call supporters negative...

Good signing. Had his best season by far and the club seems to be managing him well. His first two seasons would have been awful for anyone's confidence. He's far too talented and skillful to get rid of. It's a psychological thing with him I think. I've never seen a player get so down on themselves after an error. I guess that's what happens when you blood a top 5 pick in a team that loses by 148 points.

Salem - Kid Can Play

Don't want Kent back. No point even risking him, just get him cherry ripe for pre-season.

I don't have the energy anymore to respond to the Grimes haters. Grimes has 9 of the 10 qualities required to be universally accepted as a legend of the club. Those that continually criticise his inclusion are not capable of helpful analysis.

Settle the F down picket!

I cringed when he said Hogan "hadn't been signed by Melbourne yet." Yes he [censored] has, you moron.

Gawn was excellent. 30 hitouts against Sandi, 10 marks and a heap of the ball and most importantly looked like he ran the game out well in the last quarter without Spencer to help him out in hot conditions. Max is going to be a huge asset going forward.

For a rebuilding club which has deemed it necessary to apologise for its poor treatment of older players (James McDonald), and is trying to put those bad old years where they belong, this should not even be a subject for debate. Jamar has earned the right to be treated with respect, and we need to show him that.

Why? Our season is over. If we were a chance at finals I would agree, but bringing him in for one game at the end of the year doesn't hurt us at all. Russian has been a tremendous servant of our club and it would be terrific to see him get one final game.

I didn't see a minute of the game and have no desire to do so but, if I am the highest paid coach in the competition and the team repeatedly finds itself ten goals down midway through the second quarter, I would seriously consider whether I am the best person for the job. Clearly Roos' message is not getting through, and / or the players are too dumb / too unskilled to follow it. Either way something has to change. Anybody patting the team on the back for "only" losing by nine goals is kidding themselves - Freo clearly had the game won by quarter time and went into cruise control thereafter. I would love to know why Roos thinks so poorly of Grimes. He was clearly in our best two players last week, and starts as sub this week. I notice his BFF Lumumba has never been dropped or started as sub, despite being completely useless in comparion to Grimes.

Realistically there's about 10-12 players facing the axe before Toumpas and he's a young mid with potential so we're not going to dump him for unders. I really hope Toump makes it this year I started to doubt for the first time. But he did have a couple of decent games this year so I'm interested to see how he goes with another preseason into him and more time with McCartney.

Some insightful effing posts here... What do you think he would get in a trade, and don't give me the old "I would take a packet of crisps" nonsense - he was highly touted for a reason and the club evidently wants to find out whether he can salvage something. "If he wasn't ND4, he wouldn't still be on the list" is not an argument against keeping him - again, there was a reason he was taken so early and was touted as such a talent. There are plenty of other spots on the list to clear before Toumpas for a myriad of reasons - but I will give you one; he could be a far better player than about more than half a dozen still on the list.

It is just one spot on the list, might as well see the cards after this much investment. It's a meh move for me, Toumpas is like down the list of the issues we're facing

Its the end of the season, every team not in finals contention promotes kids to give them a taste of AFL footy, whether they are dominating VFL or not Its happened since forever and will always happen

He got kneed majorly in the head and incredulously got a free kick against. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief.

I noticed Garlett a fair bit and thought he was one of our better players.

I just had the displeasure of reading his article, I really wish I hadn't. "The tanking affair killed off much goodwill and destroyed the reputations of many, and the MCG statue of icon turned president Jim Stynes stands as another subliminal reminder of how uneasy that ended." What a disgusting human being. I'm angry now.

I am an unashamed Grimes supporter, but I think he has been hard done by. Dropped earlier in the year when I think he was playing good footy, and the sub a couple of times since. He goes all day, why make him the sub? Save that for a young fella. He has the odd clanger, and I have noticed a majority are on his left foot. Doesn't excuse them, but just interesting.

Well done after quarter time, despite another totally gutless and mystifying umpiring performance. We all know it's always worse out west, but do we have to expect them to be this bad? Someone of bravery and vision needs to fix umpiring, and soon.