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Agree Armstrong. Roos said on 360 that Watts was crook as a dog during the week and on game day. One poor game in his past 6-8, under duress as well, doesn't take away from the improvements he's made.

I know it's unlikely, but I'd love him to get those 14 goals to hit 50 for the season. A bag of 6 will give him a real shot. It would be a phenomenal achievement.

Always consider the source

You're treating Dangerfield in isolation. I'm not. You need to broaden your horizons and thinking. Star-studded talent wins flags. Adelaide have Dangerfield and who else ? Maybe Walker. Sloane is very good and blue collar, but no star. In 3 years Melbourne would have Hogan, Dangerfield, Brayshaw and Petracca. That quartet gives you the chance of a flag. FFS, some supposed experts think the Dogs and Richmond could take it out this year. I don't, btw. Port nearly made a GF 2 years ago. North made a prelim last year. Good ordinary sides that lacked the stars to go all the way, but showed that the competition is very close. Because the holy grail has eluded this football club for so long I reckon some of you over estimate how difficult it is. It's certainly not easy, but it's far from impossible. Sydney won flags in 2005 and 2012. Only 4 players remained from the 2005 team. They rebuilt on the back of cola to get enough talent to win another one. Look at Hawthorn. Their stars in Franklin, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli and Roughead won them flags. Stars won them flags. But if you look at the rest of their team it's the equivalent of the foreign legion. So many are players from other clubs that complement their stars. Clearly my premise relies on Hogan, Petracca and Brayshaw becoming genuine stars and others becoming bona fide A-graders (Viney, Salem and hopefully others). If that doesn't happen then Dangerfield won't make the difference and bridge the gap to a flag. But I live in the hope and confidence that we have recruited players capable of delivering the ultimate and that a player like Dangerfield makes the difference. Hogan will become one of the games great key forwards. How many of history's great key forwards never played in a grand final. Most won flags. Dangerfield would give the club a decent shot.

With the way we deliver the ball into the 50 he has a very, very good chance.

That's the ACTUAL view! Here's what Tird sees:

Yep. JW has always been a soft target of the media, who massively exaggerate his shortcomings and use him as a tool to carp on MFC supporters. Unbelievably this mindset has been absorbed by some of our own supporters, who perpetuate it to torture themselves and each other.

I used to hate Buckley as a player, now i have an enormous amount of respect for him and enjoy hearing him speak. On the other hand, I used to have the utmost respect of James Hird as a player, now I loathe the sight of him and cant bear to hear him speak!

I don't think they'd be used for tears...

It's a shame you ruined your post by calling him "Tiptoes" and therefore declaring your bias. But there you go.

Agree with your sentiment, but the Saints thriving is the biggest misconception in football at the moment. Media beating up how well they are going relative to Melbourne and other clubs and how they are ahead of expectations. Saints have beaten us twice, but they are hardly thriving and are in a worse position with their list than we are currently. Had we had a legend like Nick Riedwolt who can provide such a presence and win games off his own back we would easily have 8-9 wins. Media beat up in the worst of ways, St Kildas form is vastly over rated.

Not at all. Regularly at the footy there will be people around me who won't say anything all day except to bag Watts. At the game on the weekend some bloke abused Jack for handballing when he was about to get tackled. It was a great handball which set up a shot at goal. Let's think about that - his first instinct was to bag Watts. He didn't even wait to see the play break down and THEN bag Watts. He was just too keen to get in there and have a crack. It was like fans yelling 'BALL' before it's really holding the ball because they want it to be holding the ball. I'm certainly not talking about everyone who criticises Watts - everyone is entitled to their opinion. But some of our own fans enjoy bagging him. It's a small vocal minority, but it's there.

Have another

All Melbourne supporters get frustrated when Jack mucks up. But I've always reckoned there's a cohort, albeit quite small, who feel joy when he stuffs up, because it gives them a chance to vent their spleen. It's pretty ugly.

Paul little.. wow " at no stage did anyone involved raise concern to the board" What about the letter from your club doctor?

Truly becoming a Greek Tragedy. The case of a man of importance who falls to disaster as a result of his personal failings and circumstances which he cannot control. Although his personal failings have been apparent for some time, it has now become evident that he can no longer control things (if he ever could). The tipping point has arrived and he really is on borrowed time. It really is like a morality play. A lesson for us all.

Hope he stays....good players are hard to find and we're not a position list wise to lose 25 yo 100 gamers in their prime. He could improve his consistency a fair bit in his next 100 games of footy as well.

We will lose a few other players though. Its all part of the game. Never will have best 22 available all year long, hence the need for depth.

I reckon Hogan's year off in 2014 was a blessing in disguise, and we're seeing the fruits of that this year. They got to spend an entire year just developing him and educating him about defence patterns, studying other forwards, etc. I love that the club has Petracca helping out with talent scouting and recruitment.

i think the fountain head is actually maximus gawn re-enacting his triumphant chinese victory

Is that a statue of Hird on the left, with his mouth piece Robbo drooling in the fountain?

Being only a recent member of the JW fan club, I watched him a bit on Sunday, and he wasn't very good. On one occasion he had the ball at HBF and stood scanning the field for several seconds. There was just no-one to kick to. As a key distributor, Jack plays best when the team are going well, but if they're not making space his job gets harder. The flu explanation for team lethargy is at least plausible.

If your sitting at your desk at your workplace and watch 360 on Monday nights enjoy this. A mate sent it to me and it sums up my workplace perfectly. GW: It’s Monday night on 360 and that only means one thing. It’s time to get the coaches in and dissect the events of the past week. Paul Roos. Welcome… PR: Evening Gerard. Evening Robbo. GW: And Nathan Buckley welcome to 360. NB: Evening Gentleman. MR: Roosy. I have to start with you. When you are going through the tapes during the week, reviewing the game with players, breaking it down into critical moments; how frustrating is it when someone doesn’t refill the photocopier with paper? PR: I think it’s the hardest job in football. Sometimes we focus too much on areas like defensive pressure and midfield setup that we sometimes forget that we need paper to print these strategies on and if we run out of paper, we rely on staff to pick up the slack and refill the paper tray. Clearly that’s not happening at our football club. NB: At Collingwood we are lucky that every staff member has their own photocopier so when you have the responsibility of your own copier, it’s important that the message gets through and to the guys credit they have been excellent in focusing on refilling when required. MR: Roosy, I don’t mean to bang on about it but how is it that a professional team, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year…doesn’t even have the…for lack of a better word…brains to know the situation and say to each other “guys, the photocopier tray is empty, someone needs to get back to the stationary cupboard and get some paper.” PR: That’s a very good question and the simple answer is our guys weren’t aware of the situation and they didn’t get themselves back to the cupboard and clearly there was a communication failure from my office to the players. NB: But in Roosy’s defence it shouldn’t be up to him all the time to tell the staff how much paper is left in the copier. That’s where you expect strong leadership on the office floor and staff to step up and say “even though I didn’t use the photocopier last, I’ll refill the paper tray as it’s what’s best for the team.” GW: Would you be open to the suggestion of increasing the number of copiers in the offices at Melbourne? PR: That’s something for the CEO to discuss with the football department in regards to resourcing but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if you have 1 photocopier or 100. Paper needs to be refilled and that’s the message I’m trying to get across to the players. We aren’t doing the little things that make a difference. MR: Bucks, you’ve been at Collingwood now for what 4 years. Have you seen the difference in staff when it comes to them asking you pointless questions that you don’t have the answer for? NB: I still get silly questions asked my way every day. For example I had a staff member ask me last week where one of the assistant coaches was. Now if the staff member read their email he would have realised that this assistant coach was on leave for a week. Just today as I was coming here a staff member asked me why hasn’t the biscuit tin been refilled? It does get frustrating… MR: Bucks, who is the worst at re-filling this biscuit tin in your office? NB: I’m not going to name names Robbo but needless to say some of our senior staff need to step up when they see that the Scotch Fingers, Choc Chips and Butternut Snaps are all gone and all that is left are Kingstons and the lone Monte Carlo. PR: And remember staff are under immense pressure to hit targets, be efficient and get the numbers ticking over and as a result the little things get missed. Personally I love the Kingston so I don’t mind if they are at the bottom of the tin. It’s when they have been sitting at the bottom of the tin for two days and start to get stale. That’s what disappoints me. GW: I’ve heard from pretty reliable sources that dishes are left in the sink for up to a week. Given this is a potential OH&S issue, should there be harder sanctions for staff who don’t clean their dishes? PR: Even when I was at the Swans we had issues with the staff kitchen. On any given day there would be a dirty cup or dish in the sink and it wasn’t until we suspended players from the team for these indiscretions that the message got through that everyone has a part to play to keep the staff kitchen clean. GW: Well time has gotten away from us and I’m sure there will be more next week. Paul Roos, Nathan Buckley thanks and see you next week.

Don't know about "forget WADA". What you are suggesting is exactly what the CAS hearings will do.WADA as chief prosecutor can be expected to bring all those people to give evidence under oath: Fitzpatrick, McLaughlin, Demitriou, Little, Hird, and Dank. I would also add Charter, the Chinese exporters and the South Yarra chemists who will this time be required under court orders to testify under oath. We must all remember that this in effect is a new trial, and anything and anyone is open for questioning. We may even see some players be called to give evidence and not rely on the transcripts from the AFL/ASADA interviews as the AFL tribunal did. This means of course they will be open for cross examination from a hostile counsel which they weren't at the tribunal. It is a very different hearing, under very different rules, and will have a very different outcome. However, in spite of the situation going from bad to worse for Hird over the last couple of weeks, the most significant announcement came yesterday when WORKSAFE confirmed they were proceeding with their investigation into the ESSENDON drugs scandal (see this morning's Age). http://www.theage.com.au/afl/-givu34.html This confirms my previous advice posted on here on several occasions that Worksafe have been waiting for the AFL/ASADA/WADA/CAS processes to largely work their way through the system before they acted in full. Any Worksafe action though could end up more serious than anything which might come out of CAS. With CAS, the worst which can befall Hird and Essendon is suspension from participating in sport and the public shame which goes with it. With worksafe, it can become a criminal matter and end up in the civil courts with penalties from heavy fines to jail sentences for the perpetrators. This especially applies to the office holders of the organisation in particular the senior executives and the Board who are directly responsible for the governance of the organisation. It could also spill over for the directors to put them in breach of directors duties under the company code. This is extremely serious for all those involved. I would also suggest that in view of the seriousness of the possible outcomes of a Worksafe investigation, this is more likely than CAS to lead to civil action in the courts from the various office holders against Hird, Essendon and the AFL, although if players are suspended by CAS most have already said they will sue these three. The DamBusters have not only taken off, but at least two of the dams have been breached, and the valleys below are rapidly filling up and many are drowning. The rebuild after the regime is toppled will be long, painful, and difficult, but hopefully result in a more fertile, law abiding environment in the (distant) future.

Yes I know the charade, but really ... what were they given? But more, why aren't the players demanding to know??? (Unless ....)

A good read and insight into his time at the club and his injury - Christian Petracca has learned a lot from knee injury

And he has got that natural football timing thing that you just can't teach. He instinctively knows when to body his opponent and how to give himself the advantage. He is sort of the anti Col Sylvia who was always half a beat behind most others whereas Jesse is has it sussed well before everyone else. Edit. And thanks for the clips HH. He is going to be making defenders look silly for a long time to come Edit 2. And whilst I would like to have Cripps in Red and Blue is there a supporter in the comp who would rather have him than Hogan? Jesse has had the number one defender play on him since the first round, the best, strongest and most experienced of every team and has lowered their colours more often than not. Honestly just call the press conference, apologise for the delay and give him the rising star

I’ve always hated Paul Roos’ media technique. He feels so false and noncommittal. If he weren’t Melbourne coach, I’d go back to doing what I used to do and totally ignore him because he’s just so dull. Not a fan. Bucks on the other hand. I could listen to him all day. Blunt, succinct, and (above all) usually spot-on. I still hate Collingwood though.

One of my favourite people in football to listen to. If he waffled on (which he doesn't), at least there's substance to what he says.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=new_post&f=2 An article discussing recruits from other clubs with Higgins, Crisp and Garlett nominated as the top 3. It seems to be a foxtel thing so not sure how 'official' it is. Nonetheless, it is great for Jeff to be recognised for his efforts and he certainly seems to be enjoying his football and the club. He is on track to kick a career high number of goals. Along with Jesse and his Rising Star performance and Bernie in AA form it is really good to have our players recognised as being at the higher performance end of the comp.

So the drugs were bad when they were allegedly at melbourne but at essendon they were just vitamins and fine. Ffs

He came straight off and swore at himself on the sidelines Watts was poor on the weekend in the one area we know he excels in, disposal. He actually was ok defensively. I'm giving everyone a free pass this week given the flu rumours. I had to work with the flu last month, and it nearly killed me. And I'm no footballer.

Yes. He had a poor game on Sunday. One of many under the weather. I may have asked you (or another) before - have you ever had to exert yourself with a flu-like illness? Had to focus mentally, let alone physically? Presumably not or you may understand. I strongly suspect were it one or two they would have been replaced but couldn't due to weight of numbers. But over the season if you had to have the ball in someone's hand at a tight moment requiring an accurate well planned pinpoint disposal I would say a poll of posters here would have it in the hands of JW by a large majority - certainly not in the hands of your namesake So, time to move on and get over what was a crap game by many individuals yet a surprisingly competitive overall team effort in the throes of adversity. (I know you will never be happy while a fit JW remains on our list, but really this incessant bagging is frankly boring).

Just catching up on my reading from the past couple of days and can't believe the concerted PR effort in the Herald Sun that seems to be calculated to discredit the WADA case. Someone should tell them it's not the public that's going to decide the outcome of this saga but the the adjudicators at CAS.

I don't suppose you saw Dane Swan kick straight to the man on his mark (Buckley, I think) who then took off and resulted in a goal to Carlton....These thing happen.....I don't normally go to JW threads as the sheep just keep following each other. ALL AFL players make mistakes other wise there would be nil all draws....Can we please change the record I don't think there has been a more maligned player than Jack.

Either would be nice and both are light on in terms of key defence. A bag in both matches would be even better!

If he kicks anothe bag of 5 he will be hard to beat ( I think he has got it anyway!) but if he gets 6-8 in a game he is a certainty. Vince to beat Cripps in two weeks could help too.

. . . and then out of the flames comes the new T3000 from WADACORP!!

I'm expressing that not everything is as simple as you say...and that I've seen it before. Please excuse my ignorance but have GC, Sydney or Carlton won a flag with their messiahs? Have Adelaide won one with 'Danger'? The Franklin move was supposed to make Sydney a powerhouse and it's been the opposite, yes they made the GF last year but performed like a shadow of the Swans we have come to know, they were an embarrassment and Franklin was close to their best. Something has happened to the fabric of their club. GC struggle to win without Ablett on the ground. I must admit I thought they were smart to grab him and GWS were on the wrong track with their strategy, seems their approach to develop players and add key senior players has been vindicated. Carlton, for many reasons are up the creek but one things for sure. Judd didn't take them to the promised land. I think we are on the right track now and 'Danger' might be a good addition to us but then again he might not. I take on board 'Mach5's point that he won't cost us a trade (pick or player) so that lessens the cost and is a plus. It's important that we get the pay scale right or it will effect us for years to come. It's also important that we get the right player.

Wtf....did I just read?

Hird is poison. Maybe the biggest punishment that club can get is having him stay on as long as possible.

Like a few people here, I really like listening to Buckley on 360. I reckon he's really genuine and on a few occasions this year, after a bad Melbourne loss, he's actually defended us - or at least the idea that developing a side from the bottom up takes time. Surprised that people are criticising Roosy's media style. I reckon he is fantastic. If you watched our media conferences after each game with the sound off, you wouldn't know if we'd won or lost. I think Roosy's relaxed demeanour is a huge strength - the media are vultures and once they smell blood they can make like pretty much impossible for a club or coach. Roosy is an expert at conveying calm. More broadly on Melbourne in the media - we get heaps more than we used to. I think that goes back to Jimmy's days in the Presidency. Even though we used to be a reasonably good side we would barely get mentioned and were called irrelevant (whatever that means - Melbourne has never been irrelevant to me!). Now we have our coach on 360 every week.

Watts the name of this thread, Stu ? Perhaps if it was Nathan Jones or Bernie Vince or Jeff Garlett the same observations would have been made. I know you're not the sharpest intellect wandering these forums, but it's unsurprising that in a thread called 'Jack Watts' some would vent their spleen at a truly horrible performance. You would have known this before you opened it, so when you decry what you knew would be the case it makes you look like a goose. Again.

How reliable has Nate become at kicking goals when the team needs one!

Buckley is a pseudo intellectual. Got nothing! Roos is a PR specialist that provides nothing but looks good doing it!

iNo it didn't. Judd was at Carlton from 2008 - 2015. In those 7 years, he was the following. All Australian 08, 09, 10, 11 Carlton B&F 08, 09, 10 Club Captain 2008 - 2012 Brownlow Medal 2010 Alpha MVP 2011. You build a club around a player like that. Carlton had 3 #1 draft picks in a row before he walked in the door. They butchered their draft picks almost exactly the same as we did. Some might argue worse in the more recent years. The Judd deal didn't hold them back,it was the absolute failure of the club to draft and develop a decent side around him. Judd cost Carlton Kennedy, pick 3 and pick 20. Dangerfield would cost us nothing.

I enjoy listening to him as opposed to Roosy most episodes. Each to their own.