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One notable in: my four year old son, Claude, will be attending his first Demons game on Sunday. I'm a first generation (off the boat!) Dees supporter, so this is a special moment for me - the start of a Demon dynasty.

Only 2 non MFC players in first 18. If we lose this there will be no1 to blame except Watts

No pressure, but he's back! 2014 Peter Jackson VFL FOOTSCRAY BULLDOGS v CASEY SCORPIONS Sunday 17th August, 2014 Highgate Recreation Reserve at 11.00am FOOTSCRAY BULLDOGS B: Young Roberts Talia HB: Johannisen Jones McRae C: Greenwood Jong Dickson HF: Tutt Redpath Howard F: Pearce Cordy Grant FOLL: Campbell Giansiracusa Honeychurch I/C (from): Boyd Finco Fogarty Fort J Hayes* W Hayes Iaccarino Jamieson Jensen Lower Perkins Prismall Russell CASEY SCORPIONS B: Georgiou Davis Terlich HB:M Jones Panozza Strauss C: Bail McKenzie Barry HF: Salem Hogan Toumpas F: Blease Pedersen Kennedy-Harris FOLL: Fitzpatrick Riley Morris I/C (from) Best Clisby Evans Fisscher* Godfrey Hillard Nicholson Page Petropoulos Rutherford Scott Smith Westrupp * 23rd player 2014 AFL Victoria Development League WILLIAMSTOWN v CASEY SCORPIONS Sunday 17th August, 2014 Highgate Recreation Reserve at 2.00pm WILLIAMSTOWN B: Hoghton Currie Besse HB: Charleston Sing McKenzie C: Heatherington Bugeja Gallucci HF: Bench Conway McConnon F: Wyatt Critchley Anastasio FOLL: Deery Carr Woods I/C (from): Cashman Christodoulou Curtis Flack Giles Greiser Hickey Hutchesson Mead Miller Nixon O'Leary CASEY SCORPIONS B: McDonald Corrigan Currie HB: Hillard Gawley Westrupp C: Evans Best Godfrey HF: Jackson King Lang F: Page Rennie Anderson FOLL: Thomas Petropoulos Scott I/C (from): Corry Davidson Del Papa Hibbs Murray Paredes Pears Shiels Smith Symons West Wilson Winderlich

King and Maclure FMD!!! About the only positive in those two is that they are marginally better than Robbo. They are all headline hunters. There are so many journo parasites sucking off the AFL, the only way to get attention is to have a bigger mouth/headline. They are all mostly bull shite.

Little is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. No interest in what is good for the game or the players. Whatever it takes - to get off .

hope we smash them by 100+

I am doing my Honours year as a history student, Tony is my supervisor. I spoke to him yesterday and he gave me a sneak peak at the article. He is really passionate about both footy and baseball and wrote this with nothing but the best of intentions re the Dees. He really believes that we could facilitate this partnership and bring the Red Socks to Melbourne.

So we are trading out one of the current captains (Grimes), a 20 year old first round pick that hasn't played 20 games yet (Toumpas) and a 22 year old first round pick and former captain that has struggled with injury (Trengove). For a few speculative picks in an open draft which we will already have good picks in. Yeah real smart.

I didn't say he hadn't established himself, I said that he hadn't established himself in a position. In this context the definition I attribute to 'established' is consistent AFL level performances, which hasn't happened throughout his career. I want what you want, Jack Watts to be a consistent and effective AFL quality player. I've given up on him being a star and would be quite happy if he was to have a similar career trajectory to Dunn. I would like to see us draft some players who will give him pressure for his spot - Who do we have in the VFL that could play Jack's role? Is he competing with the likes of Blease/ Strauss for a spot? I'm going to stick by the comment that he's getting games due to a lack of depth rather than good/ consistent performances.

I love that with all the elite young midfield talent they have hoarded they traded away the best of the lot thanks GWS

so not a pact man then

If you look at Paul Roos' trading history, you would see that he has a VERY high strike rate with it. Moreover, you would see that he's not a big believer in draft picks, often trading out first round picks for average footballers. He then turned those average footballers into important role players. Some have even gone on to become AA. My point is, there's no way in hell Roos will trade out Watts, Toumpas, Grimes or Trengove for speculative draft picks. And nor should he.

But they were saying they don't understand why toumpas hasn't been playing well that just proves how much research they put into it, bit hard to play with after having surgery

I reckon nev would be the first selected each week, fast gaining the respect he deserves

I agree, he should come storming on to the ground and nail three opposition players with a massive tackle

Jeff Kennett takes aim at Paul Little Jeff Kennett! *stands an applauds*

Garry just said GWS had no reason to win and had sent Cameron Whitfield Coniglio Mohr Scully ect all to surgery and then sam said they were tanking and should be investigated.

I will be closely watching this game for any evidence of tanking from us at least. Having watched the antics of 2009 and in recent weeks come to fully understand the devastating and lasting effects of that Richmond game which we lost in 2009 that according to Roosey has affected players who were never there, I for one will be livid if I detect tanking like coaching! For instance if I see someone like Frawley playing forward and someone, say like Howe playing off half back I will know the "Petracca Tank" is on!

Of that bench I'd hope for Salem, Barry, Riley and Bail. Grimes replaces M Jones, Salem replaces JKH. Absolutely no reason to play McKenzie (except for that one big reason).

Just back in from a long day's work, haven't heard the news all day. First thing I turn to is Demonland. Sorry I've got nothing new to add to the discussion, but I had to say something to someone. Lemme get this straight. The Bombers have used every delaying trick and barrister in the book - even brought in Neil Young - to avoid having to face the consequences of having pumped their players full of pig effluent...and now Little is trying to get a political crony to call the whole thing off on the grounds that....huh? It's all gone on so long? Words almost fail me. The effrontery of that man - not to mention the arrogance of the rich. Mind you, given how much the Libs are piddling in the pockets of people like him, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled it off. Has nobody ever said the word WADA to him? Does he propose to blacken the game our kids play - indeed, all of Australian sport - just so that The Annointed One can avoid taking responsibility for his actions? Scum, the lot of them. Pure, unadulterated, stomach-churning, blood-bubbling scum.

Surely that sharp shooter will line up at full forward.

So many times people on the forum have said we'd lose to a VFL side, this is about as close as we're going to come to finding out. God damn it's good to see Hogan named.

HF: Salem Hogan Toumpas F: Blease Pedersen Kennedy-Harris Decent forward line...

I presume that the best interests of the community and sport generally in this country are served by being signed up to (and pursuing) the most rigorous anti-doping regime possible. Even Abbott (with his Oxford Blue) will probably be able to grasp this eventually if Little is able to apply some pressure to a sports minister who can't. Reading between the lines I'd think that the penny has finally dropped with someone in the Essendon legal team (don't think Little would have worked it out himself) that Reg 4.21, which they wanted to rely on, is a regulation, something issued by a minister of the crown to guide interpretation of legislation and something that can therefore be changed by a minister of the crown (aka a political mate). Is this an announcement that Essendon won't stop until they've corrupted Australian sport in its entirety?

I have 3 words for you - " Never loses his feet" ohhh.. I have 4 words for you - "Never loses his feet"

Well written perhaps, but what the point of it I don't know... I am a Red Sox fan so this is something I have thought about in the past - but I don't attach any meaning to the colours, history, and city parallels that abound. Bartlett was purely trying to say that he wants the Demons to be an attraction when folks travel to Melbourne and he should be criticised alone for that - not for some cross-sport 'impossible dynasty' critique that this bloke has eloquently spurted into that article. As for Bartlett's point; I am reminded of what Pagan used to say - "Show me the baby, don't tell me about the pregnancy." Well, I don't think the 'baby' is possible, so please tell me about the 'pregnancy'; how exactly do you see this eventuating?

Yet another appalling article from Yobbo. Honestly is the editorial staff (who are the ones to blame for allowing such tripe to be printed) for real. So much wrong with it, its hard to know where to start - but three bits particularly stand out on the what the? scale First he says that 'ASADA called Hird to testify, remember. Surely, when he’s in the Federal Court, and when he’s being asked questions under oath, he must tell the truth as he knows it.' What the? Hird chose to involve himself in this case when there was no need to in order so he could bag the AFL and ASADA. And further his answers to ASADA's queries were unnecessarily expansive and gave detail not directly asked for (most of which was completely irrelevant) Second Am i going crazy or did i really read this beauty: 'The media commentary, in itself, has been fascinating, involving the Herald Sun, The Age and The Australian ....... Some explore all sides, which include the drugs and the processes. Others explore the strongest tree on which to string up Hird and, at the same time, find a lettuce to slap the AFL and ASADA. This week, one even praised McLachlan for his deal-making, which forced a hurried check to see whether McLachlan’s byline was on the story.' What the? I can only assume he thinks he is one of the reporters exploring all sides. Is he crazy? And he has the cheek to write that he needed to check one story to see whether McLachlan’s byline was on the story? After writing article after article that could have been written for him by Hird's spin doctors. Yobbo are you for real? He might have also noted that a whole bunch of other reporters have won prestigious prizes for their coverage of the supplements saga and he has won zilch. Third, and this isn't so bad i guess but where was the editor: 'As much as the players put faith in Essendon and its staff, we all put faith in the AFL to govern with good grace'. What the? Govern with good grace. What the hey matta hey does that even mean. Yeah Yoobo, AD and McLachlan need to be much more civilized in their governance. Its like a car crash. I can't stop reading his drivel. But i have to stop. Now. He is making me dumber.

Thanks, enjoyed that. Think the idea's worth exploring.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2014/07/03/sport-drugs-gangsters-need-wada/ now HERE's an article!

Except that there was more credit being given to the proposal than you have stated, or perceived. King said repeatedly that this was a vital trade and draft period for Roos. Whateley sad it might seem bold but now was the time to make such decisions, to which King agreed. Now or never was a theme of the discussion. The point remains that if any of Watts, Grimes, Trengove or Toumpas stagnate further next season, their trade value will plummet. So the proposal was put on the table and the merits of it are being discussed here. If you don't wish to do that, that's fine.

Jesse won our best and fairest at Casey from Full forward. Watts still couldn't do that now.

I only wish we could trade some of those footy commentators.

Haven't seen him live yet PSD, but hope to see him in action next weekend. He's kicked bags of 10 & 7 in recent TAC Cup outings and had a haul in the region of 16 or so for Marcellin in between. A basketball convert who's probably sitting in the second round at the moment, but could push up a bit further if he maintains this form. To date the asterisk on his big hauls are the opposition he performed against weren't high end (relative to the competition).

please dont ever mention Watts and Flower in same post as though one was entitled to do up the others laces. Robbie Flower happily engaged a contest, put body on the line tackled effectively and rarely fell over Watts has ability , Flower is a legend Flower would have played 300 but for injuries....most incurred in body on body football Flower was exceptionally skilled and had more bravado as a player than nearly most.His tackles stuck btw Ask many a player of RF era who was their most difficult opponent.RF gets a big vote. Cant imagine ANYONE suggesting JW Flower took on the game..Something JW could emulate

Are we really looking at things properly. The new people (our saviours) are going to have to spend another year getting used to the "Game Plan" Why would we be even thinking about trading people who have actually got skills just for draft picks ? Another year of Speculation. Why would you trade Trengrove, Grimes and in particular Toumpas ( even though he hasnt played for 6 weeks). Next we should trade Hogan, he hasnt done anything this year !! Watts is being set up for a role. Wait until we have players who can get it to him when he is not so high up the ground and consequently he has a role similar to Gibbs, Suckling, Burchell, Enright,Kelly . I think our biggest problem is getting positive rather than numerical clearances . We get the ball but do not control the exit ( Jack Viney is the classic case with only 50% usage %) Get Jack's % to 70 and then you will see the value of Watts ( who is already averaging 18 possessions with high efficiency). I mentioned in an earlier post that Jetta,Howe and Watts or Trengrove should be the people with ball in hand coming from half back area. We also forget trengrove is a good ball user and Dom Tyson is still really a 1st year player. What I am saying is dont go throwing the babies out with the bathwater !!

dumb and dumber Grimes, Toumpas & Watts are all to stay. Frawley going is likely so we get 3, 4, 22, Stretch hopefully at 40. Need to use pick 4 then to get Shiel.

Seems to me Roos is about the opposite of what you are saying. There will be no "putting the cue in the wrack" at MFC. He sees the last 3 games as a big pre-pre-season. If Hogan is up to a full-on AFL game, then I reckon Roos would see it as a positive step before entering a big preseason. I for one love this approach.

Well i consulted my tea leaves and the entrails of a dead possum (natural causes) and they said 75% chance casey but a healthy 25% chance mfc If i get a chance tomorrow i'll consult the accurate one, the melbourne aquarium octopus

yes and scully said he was not talking to GWS, pacts, promises etc are likely to be broken when $$ are on the table. Thankfully a few clubs will probably be throwing obscene offers at some of these GWS players which GWS will need to start matching soon. I am sure these guys are not going to enjoy being paid $250,000 per year while Scully is wandering around of $1m per year. i wonder which guy came up with the idea of the pact the guy on $200k per year or the guy on $500k per year?

Did Tyson make the Pact to?

Trading second year players is just [censored] dumb, especially if they are #4 draft picks.

Our football dept aren't idiots. Lots of stuff is going on behind the scenes. Let's just leave them to it and see what emerges. They don't need gratuitous advice from the media, or Demonlanders (myself included)

The other thing I find interesting is the doomsday vibe they seem to be thrusting on us, I think its been a Much improved year with good indications after another change over and pre season we will be in a good position

Robin was the ultimate Sad Clown but a comic genius as well. His entire Aladdin character was an ad lib that the scrip was then written around! Mr. Keating & Vietnam are always close to me. RIP Mr Williams. Your late night chat show spots will be sorely missed. A shooting star has gone out.

The Kid has one a B&F in 2's has been training the house down for a month and people want him to go to Casey and suffer 3 weeks of rubbish delivery , scoreboard beltings , very little excitement and sarounded by 6 or 7 blokes who know that there careers are finished and don't want to be there. Straight into the team next week for me thanks.

The worst thing about the whole tanking situation is that from now on any time a team might conceivably benefit from a loss, any loss they actually DO have will be looked at suspiciously.

Whose "the radio"? The Saints have last spot all but sewn up. It's very difficult to see them winning any of their three remaining games. Both sides will be out to win. People who say anything different are simply pot stirring.

pfft... Your angst towards Watts is simply a matter of opinion... you suggested that he has currency, but have only focus on the negative in his game... if your statements are simply observational, why not talk about the part of his game that gives him currency as well? Not everything is black and white, there are shades of grey here and not all the grey is about Watts... Some of it is about our club.. I don't mind people stating their opinion, thats what this site is about and why I'm here... i do find the constant attacks on Jack's deficiencies boring and a tad embarrassing... Am i a Watts fan? Yes, but I'm also a fan of all MFC players... Would i trade Watts? I would be reluctant, but I'd be reluctant to trade any of our players... I have observed over years of reading here, that you tend to be very ruthless and dispassionate towards our players... Which i suppose, is a modern footy way of thinking and probably best suited to the modern era... But its a way of thinking that i doubt, ill ever be able to properly grasp...

Why give up on Toumpas yet? At no stage did King acknowledge his surgery/illness setbacks. He just said he hasn't been playing. Did he even know of them? I think we need to give Watts another year under Roos. He has shown SOME intermittent signs this year of the penny dropping. That said, Pick 20 or thereabouts would give pause for thought. It would be a heartbreaker if Trenners was traded after his foot surgery and went on to star for another club. I seriously doubt he's going anywhere so it's a moot point. It's a discussion that needs to be had, but I don't think King provided the answers. Being bold is one thing, but sacrificing two young talents (picks 2 & 4) with everything still ahead of them isn't helpful and isn't going to happen I wouldn't think