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Dawes is a great second or third forward. He competes his ass off. Those doubting him are fools.

Saty in all honerstly these guys are professional athletes that train 6 months overs the summer then 4 days a week during the season. To have a guy miss from 10 meters out is an absolute disgrace. You hardly ever see that kind of error even in country footy. Its not like he is a young kid playing his first game with nerves he is a 24 year old with 80 games experience. He was also part of the leadership group last year and was squeezed out. So when its time for a leader to step up he didn't and its one of many errors that cost us in the game. Like it or not we have every right to be as [censored] off as we are. Like i said Professional athletes from 10m out.. you connect the dots from there.

The well known football gossip columnist Caroline Wilson has yet again pursued her obsession with the MFC tanking issue in a piece in the Fairfax press Real Footy today. The article; Roos and Demons still coming to grips with sins of the past, attributes Melbourne's current woes to the alleged tanking incident. Will she ever let go? While a certain amount of doggedness is an admirable trait in a journalist, continually dragging up the same old mantra becomes tedious. If the issue was unresolved and of some real importance such as Watergate or the Dreyfus Affair - fair enough but the AFL is no Dreyfus who suffered terribly at the hands of the French military and government because of his religion and Caro is certainly no Emile Zola a talented writer crusading to right an injustice. By comparison Caro is a hack journalist attempting to rack up a very small issue that has now been resolved. The matter itself was arguable, and even if it could be shown that any team tanked it could only have benefited because of some idiotic rules that the AFL introduced the spotlight was exclusively on Melbourne while the actions of other clubs were ignored. And the article does not stand any rigorous scrutiny, for any number of reasons Few players are still playing from the time when the transgressions are supposed to have occurred and some of those Dunn, Frawley and of course Nathan Jones are among our best players While Caro makes a passing reference to Carlton as a further of the futility of tanking she ignores the other more successful clubs who may have been involved but of course are conveniently ignored Most importantly there are any number of factors that have led to Melbourne's present situation, shocking success rate in terms of winning games over along period, bad administration, pathetic coaching, awful list management, incompetent draft selection, inept player development, paltry financial management and a small supporter base come to mind. At best the tanking issue is a small subset of these rather larger factors In fact you might argue that if it were not for the tanking issue we would not have obtained the services of Jackson or Roos. They are the key to our future. While I have some sympathy for someone who having largely broke the tanking saga wanting keep it going as a nice little earner Caro draws a long bow by linking it to the quite reasonable comments made by Roos after the game. Caro, the goose has laid its last golden egg, the matter has now been done and dusted and the caravan moves on. Try to do the same!

Couple of comments: 1. Caro's article is right. It's not nice but it's right as she is most times. She's been knocking us for years. We've been shocking for years. 2. Schwab, Connolly and Stynes are to blame for where we are now. They employed and maintained an understaffed and skilled FD whilst Schwabby was buying desks and building management mega-structures. Jackson cut $1.8 million from the salary budget this year and didn't impact the FD salary budget, it all came from admin. The mind boggles. And while he was doing this we employed a bloke with no experience to head recruiting when we had low picks in the most critical time of our rebuild. 3. For all I think Robbo is awful and he can't write he's right to question the Roos outburst on Sunday as is Thomas. Our skills were awful but so were Roos public comments. They were just extraordinarily awful. 4. Robbo is right. We've kicked a lower score this year on average than we did last year. FM, concentrate on defence by all means but for all the improvements this is a monumental issue. 5. The myth that it's the expansion clubs that stopped us rebuilding is dumb. There were two years of expansion drafts and we had pick 12 in each. In our two PP drafts the expansion clubs didn't get a pick. 6. The greatest failure of this club was to pick the right players. Put in all the equalization measures you like, the club that has the best recruiting department will beat the others. 7. The over reaction to Sunday is mind boggling. We led Brisbane into the last quarter. We should have beaten PA in our match before that. We, as a supporter group, are disappointed about not winning this year - that alone is a massive improvement. The media hysteria this week is because Roos FU his post match media conference. The match was awful, the skills were awful but it was not typical of the year to date. After PA he praised the players. After Brisbane he likened them to the worst he'd ever seen. The players don't change, their performance on the day did as did Roos'. I like Roos but he's not above criticism. He should be taking plenty for the heat he's bought on what he knows is a playing group still struggling with the past. He achieved nothing with his performance on Sunday. When he puts his head on the pillow at night he knows he FU very badly.

Ok I must be the only one who didn't find anything wrong with her article..

I have seen some misses for goal in my time but none were as bad as Jordy Mc Kenzie's miss from point blank range a few metres out last week. Others of note were Magners miss from 35 out ( didn't make the distance) and I remember Juice missing a sitter a few years ago. Others have covered our lack of skill in other forums but I will say this. There is no room for a bloke who cannot kick a goal from that distance and whos skills are mediocre at best. I suppose then if he's a tagger that gets beaten and with little else going for him I would rather skip the tag and play someone else in a creative role in this team as sorry a state that it is in currently! Best groom creativity than a negative player who struggles in the rudiments of the game! Footnote: I had forgotten about Simon Eishold's miss because I had purged it from my memory. But alas it returned! That really was the worst given the state of the game! Grrrrrr.

Imagine playing kick-to-kick with Tommy Mac growing up

Toumpas and Trengove will be very good players. Neither were remotely controversial draft picks at the time - both were exceptionally highly rated. They should not been exited Neeld-style in some knee jerk way. To the contrary, they should be seen as part of our future, as I expect they are.

Who is we?He was highly rated from all the usual noise makers. Teach him how to run properly and you have a player from what I have seen. And Toumpas and Trengove have close to zero trade value. Some of you would decimate this list (even more) with your Neeld-like trade outs of players just to get rid of them.

My problem with the article is that she only mentions one other tanker. From what I could see of that period, just about everybody tanked, especially her beloved Tigers (Wallace openly admitted it) The AFLs own structure encouraged it. Therefore the article is unfair, and yet another example of kicking a man when he's down. I like Mydees original comment, that there are a multitude of reasons why we are crap, many of them to do with the structural unfairness of the AFL ( ie that we bottomed out around e time the expansion teams came in, or that we are a small player in an age of Big Business) Mind you, I'm not saying tanking didn't contribute - I suppose Roos himself is saying that But it suits the interests of the Powers That Be to make it look like its all our fault (much the same way the Government is demonising the unemployed at present, to disguise the fact that their own policies are favouring rich people and sending jobs off-shore) Collingwood tanked, and went on to win a premiership.

I wonder if anyone was more frustrated, disappointed or embarrassed than Jordie?

Now I don't consider my self to be old enough to be considered wise. But. I'm getting very sceptical of how complicated things have become in AFL. Pages and pages of stats sheets. Pre game, 1/4 time, half time, 3/4 time, after the game. And full of every conceivable stat you could think of. Metres gained, contested possessions in the forward 50, hitouts in the first half of a 1/4 compared to the second half of a 1/4, 1%ers on Sundays with a NW wind compared to on a Saturday with a SW wind. FMD how complicated is it? I can't wait for a coach to ditch this ridiculous over-analysis crap, screw up the stats sheet and start telling the players how it is. First to the ball, run past with a voice, kick it to the boundary if there's nobody in the clear, hit a target if they're open, move the ball forward, tackle hard, play in front in the wet, be accountable to your man on a turnover. Why does it have to be so scrutinised all the time. Coaches, and players, don't need damning stats to tell them who's played well. If they don't know that walking off the ground then there is something seriously wrong. And drafting. OMG can we get rid of the absurd psychoanalysis rubbish? They didn't do this 20 or even 10 years ago but good players kept getting drafted back then. Is there a higher success rate for drafted players since this rubbish came in? I wouldn't think so. Forget the draft combine and testing. Go watch the kids play. Surely you could get more out of watching a draftee play a full game or two than you can from looking at their times running through laser timers and touching vertical jump tabs. It's sports science gone mad. Can he play? Is he hard at the ball? Does he have game pace? (Not this Jack Watts sprint testing bollocks. Actual 'game' pace). Can he hold a contested overhead mark? Does he chase on a turnover? I'm just so sick of the micro-analysis in this sport. We're not trying to find a gifted athlete to shave 0.001 seconds off of a 100m sprinting record. It's football. It's a team game and the same old skills and effort win games now like they did way back when MFC were a good team. Stats lie.

Why the hell is he even going there? Roos has done a fantastic job this year but the last few days on his behalf have been horrendous.

Disappointing comments from Roos I reckon. The ironic thing is if you are trying to lose, and the players know that, then losing isn't really going to affect their confidence. You walk off the ground knowing you've lost because you / the club tried to lose, not because you don't think you're good enough. So I don't at all see how tanking can affect your confidence or your belief to win. I can see how it can affect club culture, but not confidence and belief. Where you actually lose confidence and belief is when you try your best and you still get beaten. You think your best is not good enough and that the opposition are too good and will always end up winning. This is what happens natrually to a poor team - they try hard, but keep on losing because they are not good enough. When this happens over and over again you forget how to win, you lose the belief that you can win and your confidence drops away. Blaming it all on tanking is an easy out. It's an out for the players, for coaches, for past recruiters, for player development, etc. And IMO it's plainly wrong. Abysmal recruiting, poor coaching, poor player development, sacking Bailey after 186 instead of Schwab, hiring Neeld, etc. are the key reasons why we keep on losing. The tanking effect would be insignificant compared to these other factors.

I'm sorry I can't see how Roos stuffed up the press conference. He was as shell shocked as the fans at the woeful performance and it was refreshing to see his honesty. To think that professional athletes have to be shielded from the consequences of their actions makes no sense. They need to know that what they served up was crap and see the effect it has on the club.That's the only way honesty and accountability will be developed.

I played basketball and was throwing the ball in from the defensive baseline after the opposition scored a basket - one of our players made a break towards our goal so i decided to do the long throw down the court - the ball slipped over the top of my fingers went straight up like a rocket - hit the opposition backboard above my head came hurtling down and hit me on the top of my head knocking me out cold. Top that Jordie !

Spoke to Salem's brother the other day. Asked him if he still barracks for Essendon, he said the whole family are Dees supporters now.

Fact of the matter is that if it's accepted by the football world that we were tanking back in 2009 then what we're doing now is exactly the same thing. The same inexplicable things that were happening then are happening now - in fact I saw officials looking ashen faced and how is it possible that so many first round picks have been languishing in the VFL? You can't make this stuff up surely?

The astounding thing is that this thread exists. How many other football clubs would have supporters who have such little success to talk about that they run threads called The worst miss ever. Says a lot about the lot of a MFC supporter. Seems there is lots of crap to talk about at the MFC but little else. Bloody sad is it not?

Simon Eishold's 1987 Prelim Final miss is the worst ive seen

I know it's difficult to accept where this club is at the moment, and I know it's tempting to turn our malaise into a kind of moral issue and to blame factors like laziness, ineptitude, "culture" and so on for where we are. However, while the presence of all these factors amongst the staff and playing members might have played a part, I think it's important to look at just how unlucky we've been over the past 7-8 years. I know we haven't helped ourselves along the way, and have frequently made the wrong decisions at important times, but I don't think there are many teams who could have been competitive with the kind of luck we've had during this time. So what do I mean by luck? Well, I mean specifically our luck with regards to drafting and injuries. With drafting, I know there is a certain "science" to it and that we may have selected the wrong players at times, but - for the most part - we have selected players (in the first rounds at least) who had been universally regarded by the entire scouting community as being worthy of the position in which they were selected. If we hadn't been unlucky enough to select these players, then they probably would have been taken in the next few spots by a team that - as it happens - must have had a lot more drafting luck than we did. Here are the top 20 picks we had from 2007-2012: - Pick 1: Jack Watts - Pick 1: Tom Scully - Pick 2: Jack Trengrove - Pick 4: Cale Morton - Pick 4: Jimmy Toumpas - Pick 11: Jordan Gysberts - Pick 12: Lucas Cook - Pick 14: Jack Grimes - Pick 17: Sam Blease - Pick 18: Luke Tapscott - Pick 19: James Strauss Literally not one of those players has come on in the way we expected. Only Gysberts and Cook could really be classified as "surprise" picks (where the recruiters selected players much higher than they were anticipated to go), but the rest were all universally considered to be justified picks at the time. Partly we can blame player development, of course, but that only gets us so far. For example, Scully, Morton and Gysberts have gone on to play with other clubs, and none of them showed any more than they did at Melbourne, so it can't merely be a matter of "culture". Furthermore, player development requires some luck - so that new players are able to come in with experienced players bearing the brunt of the load for their first few years, so they have time and space to learn - and we never had that. While we shot ourselves in the foot by offloading players like MacDonald, Yze, White, Moloney and Bruce a little prematurely (with the universal consent of this forum, I seem to remember!) the fact is we just never had the cattle to help the younger players along. Partly this was down to having a bad list to start with, but even then the best and most experienced players we've had have spent more time injured than they have on the park. These endless injuries over the past few years are the second heap of bad luck we've had to endure. Let's take the players we've drafted there: Scully missed half his second season with a knee injury. Trengrove and Grimes have been hobbled with serious foot injuries. Blease and Strauss have both suffered broken legs. Toumpas and Tapscott have continually missed pre-seasons with hip injuries. It's difficult to develop these players when they can't get on the pitch, or - at best - are forced to get on the pitch playing with the equivalent of one leg! Watts is the only one of those 11 top 20 picks who is both not an abject spud and who has had no serious injuries during his time at the club. And for the rest of the team? In the last four years Dawes has missed 14 of 40 games. Clark has missed 47 of 62 games. Grimes has missed 25 of 84 games. Hogan has missed 18 of 18 games. Jamar has missed 33 of 84 games. Viney has missed 11 of 40 games. They aren't walk-up starters, but Gawn and Spencer have had knee reconstructions. Cross has broken his leg. Trengove has missed 16 of 18 this season (and I'm sure he was injured before that), Garland 7 of 18 (and I'm sure he isn't 100% now). When you're already struggling, you can't afford to have these players on the sidelines so often - particularly when you combine it with the poor drafting. Then, just to top it off, we can think about Jurrah, Clark and Wonaeamirri leaving the club for personal reasons at the height of their powers; Rivers, Sylvia, Moloney and Scully leaving via free agency (not the best players in the world, but I suspect they'd be best 22 atm); and so on. In short, we just haven't had any luck lately and I doubt that any teams would be particularly competitive if they had endured what we have endured. I don't wish to make excuses, nor to suggest that the club isn't ultimately responsible for where it is today: quite clearly it is. What I want to stress, though, is that a lot of the misery we've suffered over the past few years most certainly has been outside of our control, and it may represent the difference between us being a competitive side and the pitiful mess we see before us at the moment. These kind of miseries tend to be self-compounding: a team going well can afford to absorb a few injuries, or bad drafting choices, or players leaving the club: a bad one can't. Injuries have stifled player development, which has stifled onfield performance, which has stifled players development further. Small discrepancies in luck at the beginning can snowball into massive problems further on, through a kind of positive feedback loop: that's the essence of chaos theory, and if there's one entity in the world that currently embodied the ethos of chaos, it's surely the Melbourne Football Club. The only bright spot to come from all this is that - at some point - the luck has to start turning. We will eventually begin to draft players who know how to play and who spend more time on the field than in the medical rooms (Salem and Tyson are a good start). Until then, perhaps the best thing for it is to recede from it all with a kind of ironic detachment, to trust in Roos and to shake your fist impotently at the sky. I'm not sure there's much else for it.

I don't blame supporters for cynicism about Toumpas after witnessing an astounding number of high draft picks that have gone on to do pretty much nothing. To rub salt in the wound, they've had to watch the players taken immediately after him go from strength to strength and now be rated as future superstars of the AFL. But if you focus on the fact there are new people at the club who are responsible for his development, he is still a highly rated Pick 4 in just his second year. There's still a lot to be optimistic about when it comes to Jimmy Toumpas.

Long term, I would venture to say none. The player that seemed most upset at the time, has just had his best year and will probably finish 2nd in the Bluey behind Jones. Dunn, for those that don't know who I am referring to. I think it was a poor statement by Roos and unfortunately he repeated it again today. We had an extraordinarily poor day on sunday, so did Roos. Shows he is human. Anyone who thinks Jordie missed that goal because we tanked, or Dawes, who was not on the list then, missed that handball to Blease because we tanked, or Vince who was not on the list then, missed that pass to Blease because we tanked, or Riley, who was not on the list then, passed that pathetic pass to Viney because we tanked, etc, etc, etc, is just kidding themselves.

I think we have to unconditionally support Roos at the moment. if he can't get us over the current hurdle we may as well give up. Gary Lyon reacted as a fan and vented as is his right but Roos is more calculated and obviously has seen and heard stuff that makes him feel the tanking issue is still hanging over the club and he wants to deal with it openly and once and for all. On a positive note this week may be a turning point for all concerned. He basically has said move on or move out. Can't argue with that.

Whether it's a skill error or a mental error is irrelevant. If your skills don't hold up under pressure then you're not good enough. Jordie didn't have 'game on the line' type pressure but he would've had 'fear of missing an easy shot because I'm not a greak kick' pressure. If you cannot overcome the latter type of pressure and it causes you to not only miss from 10m out but kick the ball like a bloke who has never seen a football in his life, then I don't think you are up to the required standard. It's not an isolated incident. His miss from about 20 metres out directly in front in the first quarter against Port was nearly as bad.

We weren't the only ones who tanked (Hawks, Tigers, Eagles and Blues etc), but we were damn well the only club that went back for more, again and again, in the arrogant, f-ed up belief that we could build a dominant side from it. Instead, because our culture at board level was so poor, the recruitment went horribly wrong and we're left with the current mess. However, a new era is starting and it's going to take time, but until we have a club that plays good hard, contested footy with a solid administration behind it, these stories will continue to be written.

I can't believe anyone (let alone Paul Roos) is using "tanking" as an excuse and I find it to be a cop out to be honest. Recruiting is the crux of Melbourne's problems. EDIT: Ironically, it was Paul Roos who told McVeigh not to kick a goal in a NAB Cup game.

And yet we beat Caro's beloved Tigers. Bwahahaha!!!

No there at least two of us dd

Are we going to talk about every incident for this year? Every year? Or the merret one? Play on,go for the footy and forget about it,weve got bigger probs than a broken nose.

Ha called it early! good stuff

Our club has been poorly run. Over the period of time we're talking, it's not just bad luck. I'm hopeful that Roos, PJ et ors will now demonstrate that.

Clark, Byrnes, Frawley, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease, Terlich, and Nicholson gives 8 vacancies. That's enough. Jetta, ND 3, 4, 21, Stretch, 60, 79, and a DFA will see us mine as much talent as we can get. Any more vacancies and we will be getting in some very speculative talent. Hopefully, 60 and the DFA can get us Malceski and either a Riley type or an O'Keefe type. And trade the 4 and the 21 for some established players I hope. This October is again, a very important month for the club.

While I agree with most of those, Watts needs to stay in the side. The reason you don't hear his name called has more to do with his teammates inability to spot him up than his inability to get involved. If you attend the game you will see him making lead after lead out of half forward and being totally ignored by teammates who either don't see him or lack the confidence/skills to kick it to him and instead go for riskier and less productive short passes. If we could get a half back or two who are good enough players to see him leading and hit him then his stats and involvement will skyrocket. As he said on TV, the reason he is sometimes seen jogging past the contest is because he's just made six leads, been ignored and is totally stuffed. Yes he still needs to improve his contested work. but his overall workrate is as good as any in the team.

saty, we all know players will miss gimme goals now and then mckenzie is a serial offender and supporters are entitled to get pizzed off with continual simple execution clangers mckenzie is not alone in being a serial offender as to what mistakes non-professional players here might have made is not relevant

He has again stuttered this year - some steps forward and lots of the same we have seen before. If he strolls after the ball and man and jogs to contests as he did on Sunday there is no position on the ground you can hide him. The most upsetting part for me is when he gets the ball in his hands something good happens - its all the other stuff that he doesn't do that I am finding increasingly hard to swallow.

Ben Holland frayed my nerves in front of goal more than any other player in my lifetime.

I'm sure you'd find an excuse to be sad about something regardless, mate

The [censored] also came out and all but said we were 'tanking'. Made no such reference to GWS who have put 7 players into surgery already. Can't believe he can still say such stupid f**&^&*g stuff but then again he is a moron.

6-8 deplorable efforts... I don't know about that... Also, if I can't isolate the Adelaide game as a sign of improvement on 2013, then surely isolating the Lions game is not right. What has been the rule? I would say - excellent defence, unenterprising attack, and an inability to win games that we have fought hard to be in a position to win. I would say that is better than 'the rule' of 2013.

It is the inconsistency that really pisses people off, myself included. The contact was high, the impact was significant, and it was late. The bloody maggot didn't even give a 50 m for late contact after the mark had been taken. One sees a hell of a lot of 50 for far less than that. Compare this with Dawes getting two weeks (down to one) for a high chest late arm contact that rode up to the chin, with no consequences to the 'victim' Can anyone say the MRP is consistent? I can only think of another word starting with co.....!

Perhaps a name change is in order you don't appear to think Grimes is that great anymore?

Plenty of time for Merrett to pirouette out of the way.

Conca only getting 2 weeks is a bigger disgrace

I have a different theory, at least in part. Melbourne is now so spooked by 1. the fear of losing, and 2. the Etihad "hoodoo" that it's become chronic. Dunn came out earlier in the week and spoke about defeating the 'hoodoo'. As soon as that gets into the mind of players, they can't help but get stressed and choke when the pressure gets high, like it did in the last quarter. It's like the pressure that caused Greg Norman's final-round meltdown in 1996 when he realised he could become the first Australian to win the US Masters, and the first time he could win a major on US soil. His skills disappeared, and he started pulling and duffing shots that he would normally execute without thinking. Add to that Roos' idea that players "just don't know how to win" and the issue is a severe one. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting it's not a skill and personnel problem or a problem with the quality of the team. But the total lack of skill under self-induced pressure was more than just a coincidence, particularly given that we pushed Port Adelaide to 3 points away in our last game. I also think the standard responses of 'culture', 'laziness', 'dumb' and 'lack of effort' have been easy outs for success-starved supporters, and are not particularly helpful with this team under Roos coaching. Until players can execute skills under pressure, we are going nowhere. And there's only two solutions ... get rid of the players who can't, and train the rest until their feet and hands metaphorically bleed.

Malceski is a must get. A must get. Our backline have the most laughable kicking skills which is the number one reason there's such a discrepancy for inside 50 counts for and against. We consistently turn it over in our backhalf. Consistently. Malceski would have a huge effect and I'd be going after another back flanker who can player hard but can also use the ball and setup play well either at the draft or from another club to slot in and take the Terlich/Grimes spot. (This captaincy thing is an issue). That's clearly a priority. I know there have differing opinions about the worth/value of O'Keefe but I'd also throw him a deal similar to Cross's. It doesn't concern me one bit that he has lost a yard of pace. It's not like he's a David Rodan or a Shannon Byrnes. The bloke is a genuine A grade player with leadership all over him, work ethic, great user of the ball and would slot in beautifully on the half forward line for a year or two. Sydney have a plethora of midfield talent and experienced leaders. Our club is trying to offload spuds and we're still screaming out for that experience, drive and leadership to help cultivate this culture we're striving for. Malceski Cross O'Keefe Dawes That gives you an experienced, hardened and strong group of leaders at every line. Players who have the capacity to help change a club and to bring the young talent through. Then hit the draft for gun mids or do another Tyson trade with the Frawley pick and our second rounder for a gun young player and another chance of nabbing a great mid inside the top 10-15. Imagine that off-season. Malceski O'Keefe Shiel (insert talented young mid) Petracca or Brayshaw Pick 10-15 Billy Stretch Then we've got Hogan to look forward to. An injury free Trengove who will hopefully show us why he was rated so highly The possibility of Clark coming back... (Too far?) It's so incredibly sad that I'm already excited to see how the offseason pans out. Roos knows how hard he'll have to go to get quality experienced players in as well as quality youngsters for us to flush out the trash that is still running around.

Because in the black and white land of a football supporter's forum, there are only winners and losers. We're not allowed to enjoy progress or minor victories along the way.

Ah Picket, your posts never fail to make me facepalm

Jackie Boy is worth Zilch at the moment it would be embarrassing to test the waters

If anyone ever suggests we target Boomer Harvey, I will find you, I will come to where you live, and I will slap you in the face.