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I actually do give a rats tossbag. He may have been a little disingenuous with how he got to our club in th first place but when he did pull on our jumper I thought he put his heart and soul into what he did. I also thought his handling ( and the clubs handling) of his problems and departure were first class. To top it all off - he just came across as a thoroughly likable bloke. On hearing Chris Dawes speak about him on Saturday morning ( there was prolonged discussion about depression and footballers on 774) it only re-affirmed my admiration for Mitch. So I give a rats tossbag and am interested in hearing how he is doing. Knowing a couple of people diagnosed with depression, if he can get himself well enough to play AFL ( if that is what he wants) and it happens to be for a WA team ( being much closer to his support network) then I for one will be very pleased ( as long as he doesn't play too well against us)

I'm worried about her acceleration.

Who says he is to be recruited as a midfielder? Do you throw out there a team of 'tall, robust midfielders?' Jimmy Toumpas isn't a classic example of a 'list clogger' - he is a kid trying to find his feet and through no fault of his own - gets compared to another who has been quite special for PA. I really wish a few could get past the fact that Wines doesn't play for us.

She won bronze! Fantastic effort from Jess!

This is what I am hearing: * Paul Roos will sign for a 3rd year............ its as good as locked in. * There has been informal discussions with Bomber, as senior assistant next year. There is a good chance Bomber will end up at Dees but unsure of what his position will be in a succession plan. * Paul Roos has been working very hard at encouraging target players he wished to bring to the club. This is all unofficial and via managers as season still on. I am told these talks are going VERY well. * Confidence of Frawley staying is low. Club has been preparing for his departure. However, still not 100% that he is leaving.

"How will I feel..?" On the day, just after the final round, we will either have just beaten North or they will have walked on us again. That will have a bigger effect on me than the ladder. After watching Hawthorn-Sydney the other night, I put on a DVD of the 1990 Elimination Final between Melbourne and Hawthorn. Three things: firstly, I was gripped again by the excitement I used to get watching the footy, even though it was 24 years ago and I knew the outcome; secondly, it was quite something to see that amount of talent we had, all over the ground; and thirdly, the level of skill and hunger and desperation back then was a great deal higher than I remembered it. It made me recognise how numb I have become in the past few years. I don't particularly care where we finish because the disappointment has been seeping in fairly steadily all year, again, and what I know about our improvement doesn't get me to where I need to be as a supporter. We need some punch-in-the-air triumph, not just incremental one or two steps in the climb out of the cellar. But - if we beat North - the season ends with something that would bring real and vindicating satisfaction. It'll be a litmus test of a last game for the season, for this disappointed and flat-feeling supporter. Something to carry through the summer - a bit of real hope. Who cares where anyone else finishes, in this wreck of a season.

Was a no brainer on that sort of coin. Properties in Hawaii aren't cheap.

and I'm still confident that Scully will stay.

Steve Motlop is the type of player we have a big need for. JKH may fill the spot, but he would have to be good to be on par with Motlop. Chase him or someone like him because we need to, not for revenge though.

"People say, 'Why would he leave Geelong to come to Melbourne?' Well, he wouldn't. But it might just cause them a little bit of pain because right now they are making life very difficult for Melbourne and James Frawley," Lyon said on Triple M." "Demons great Garry Lyon says his former club needs to respond aggressively to the Cats, who have approached impending unrestricted free agent James Frawley, and used Motlop as an example of the way the club can hit back." "Motlop, one of the AFL's most exciting players and crucial to the Cats' premiership hopes, is contracted until the end of 2015." You guys actually bother to read the article before forming your well founded opinions? Hope you appreciate the irony of blasting someones research when you haven't even read what you're commenting on. FMD.

I've been somewhat banging on about leading in the fourth quarter, but just to get a real sense of our improvement this year, these are the figures for the number of times each (bottom 10) team has been in front at some point in the fourth quarter. Bracketed numbers are number of wins in those games and number of losses. Richmond - 10 (7-3) Gold Coast - 10 (9-1) West Coast - 10 (7-3) Melbourne - 9 (4-5) Carlton - 9 (6-3) Adelaide - 9 (8-1) Bulldogs - 8 (6-2) Brisbane - 6 (4-2) GWS - 6 (4-2) St Kilda - 4 (4-0) So we are the anomaly in this group. We're equal last for total wins, but equal third for leads held in the fourth. We've had 9 fourth quarter leads but we've only won 4 of them, making us the only side to have a sub-50% winning percentage in those games. We've created our chances much more than, for example, St Kilda, who've only had four games in which they've led in the last, but they've obviously taken their chances much better than we have. To me, it's a sign of a few things. First, we play football that, over the course of the year, is more akin to a side finishing in the upper half of the bottom 10. Second, we haven't had the experience or leadership to get us over the line in those close games. Third, we've been relatively unlucky. Fourth, we haven't been good enough to get big enough leads to ensure that we can't be overrun (e.g. our biggest winning margin this year has been 23 points). Statistics/numbers don't always say a lot, and this is just one thing to look at in 2014, but to me it signifies a real, tangible level of improvement and is something to really build on.

Love to have him back in any capacity, the most important thing is his health, anything else is a bonus. Absolutely will never forget how committed he was to our jumper in every game he played for us.

There needs to be a discussion? 9 year deal. Buddy style. Do it.

I have not given up hope of him playing with us again.

bit early to be hitting the grog, binman?

I would prefer that scenerio did not take place Man dee. I would prefer we win three of the last four so we don't finish lower than 16th and Frawley stays.

Chip said if Roos signs.... Ha ha

You are glorifying rubbish games against rubbish opponents with our rubbish team. That's where my 'rocks for brains' head is at - what if we lose these games? What happens? Are we suddenly a bad team? A worse team? What happened that is so bad - and please don't mention how others see the club... If the club wants to get something out of the last few games of the season - take it up to Hawthorn, play some football in Perth, and try to be bold and confident against NM. Winning these piddly little games against terrible teams doesn't interest me as much as that.

Likelihood is absolutely zero.

Billy stretch will be recruited because we lack exactly that type of player, The thing picket and a few others fail to see is you can't just have 44 inside midfielders on your list

I think motlop is good because those around him are, wouldn't look nearly as good in our side and I don't like the idea of recruiting a player for revenge unless it's Jeremy Cameron The best revenge would be a huge rise in 2015 and Geelong falling away

Ratten is the bloke who was trying to run the entire club himself out of necessity, because they had muppets in crucial positions, such as recruitment. The blues pinched Stephen Wells right hand man on a big sum of money, then he promptly jumped ship when he found out what a terrible mess he'd walked into, where incompetent old boys were entrenched in the recruiting dept. Ratten did a surprisingly good job with a terribly subpar list. Malthouse was late to the party in identifying how poor the list really was. I don't necessarily advocate Ratten as the successor, but he was a scapegoat for the failings of others at Carlton.

FFS read all his posts on this subject he isn't planning on finishing second last. We are being asked about how it will make us feel if we win the spoon. If you don't care and think it doesn't make a difference then IMO the last 7 years have just mentally screwed you. We are currently sitting 17th and were sitting 16th when this question was asked. We have 5 games left this season and if we play to our potential there are 4 games we can win. Lions - Yes Etihad and they are playing well but right attitude and effort we can win Hawks - even the most optimistic supporter wouldn't back us in this game, they are gearing up for the finals and getting back to their best, effort over 4 quarters is the most important thing in this game GWS - back at our home ground and if we bring the right attitude and effort and game again we should win Meth Coast - at Patersons and danger game Coxy's home farewell, but so was Hafey's and Cassisi's. They are ripe for the picking and front running flat track bullies of the highest order, don't allow them a start and turn it into a fight and it is very much a winnable game North - again it is Etihad but last game of the season and we all know there are always shock results in the final round and which North turns up. By god do we owe North for the last 7 years and despite our improvement it was one of our worst performances of the season. They will have their eyes on the final the following weak and I hope our boys are keen to atone from our loss to them earlier in the year So I am clarifying why I will be pi55ed if we win the spoon, I see 4 winnable games which if results go our way will see us finishing as high as 12th, I don't care that it rules out us getting Petracca. The last 10 years has seen enough Selwood, Dangerfield, Wines, Heppells, Salems etc coming at around that mark. We are instilling a new culture and we have an opportunity to finish the season on a high like the Doggies did last season and enter the trade period and off season with optimism and positive media, which will assist us greatly both on and off the field. So again I will be absolutely livid if we win the spoon from here, I want to finish with as many wins and high as we possibly can Go Dees

It's about points, wins, and ladder position when you have a good team trying to reach finals.When you are jockeying for 16th... WGAF. We got back on the horse last week with some good footy, I am not about to cry into my beer because the Lions and the Saints have had a couple good wins. The Lions will be a good game with them in some good form and we should beat GWS at the G, but I am more interested in how we go against Hawthorn, WCE over there, and bloody NM in the last round.

Given that we've all had the weekend off, I thought some of you may like to read my ramblings. Sorry but there's no three-word definitions here. Feel free to tear strips out of my assessments. Dees review A-graders (1) Nathan Jones – Has taken a step up from just being a hardnut this year with his evasive ability and clever mix of short (frowned upon under Neeld) and long kicking. Anyone who saw his game against Carlton when he took Marc Murphy and gave him a lesson would rank him this highly and his third b&f in September will make it even more obvious. Has vision and is one of few granted licence by Roosy to send the ball inboard under pressure. B-graders (9) Lynden Dunn – Backed up his big year last season with an even better one and a chance for AA honours if he can come home with five big weeks. Long-kick makes him one of our few linebreakers and his booming deep voice makes him a strong presence that we need. The easing of rules on tunnelling forwards this season has helped him counter the bigs and made him even more useful. James Frawley – His detractors need to remember he has had to play most of the season as a forward and his acceleration on the lead has made him pivotal and point of difference to Pedo, Gawn and Dawes. As a defender he is a bit like Richmond’s Rance – fantastic one-on-one, but occasionally his kicking lets him down. It will be sad to see him go because he now has versatility, but it sounds a fait accompli. Jack Viney – Watch Joel Selwood fight for every ball and you realise how important a player with that intensity is. Jack still needs to polish up his delivery and pick up a few easy balls but when he is there, you know every ball will be contested. Down the track he may become a quality tagger – just ask Jnr Libba. Dom Tyson – Has an uncanny ability to extract the ball, his left-foot kick can be booming and he has vision and quick hands. Will need to get used to being tagged next season but he compliments the smaller Viney and Jones well. He was a late starter to pre-season, but he’s one that will benefit from specific sprint coaching in the off-season (see notes on Trengove, Toumpas). Mark Jamar – Has always been a good strong-bodied tapman, but his marking has re-emerged this season, which has meant he is again highy-rated. He’s getting on (31 soon) but provided he doesn’t skimp pre-season, he should be able to keep Gawny at bay from No.1 ruck spot for another season. Bernie Vince – Right from his first pre-season game against Richmond, he has fitted in and while occasionally he just bangs the ball on his boot, he generally uses the footy well and has a thumping kick – especially around goal. Only 28, so hopefully a key for two or three more years yet and has the size that Roosy likes. Daniel Cross – How good a pick up was he? Last off the training track most weeks, smart, disciplined and still quick enough at this level. Hands up if you knew he was a great mark for his size as well? He’s like a taller version of James McDonald and so team-oriented it’s not funny. Jeremey Howe – It’s a tough gig being a consistent key forward, particularly at Melbourne where ball-use is not always great. But Howey has found a niche down back and provided he continues his desire to tackle his man, then he’s a potential AA defender next year. His aerial skills make him a fantastic third-man up spoiler down back – a bit like Clint Bizzell in his prime. And he’s a better kick than Biz. Tom McDonald – Some might argue that B grade is overrating him, but he’s really stepped up this year, played on all the bigs and rarely gets beaten in the air. He also takes the game on down back, which means there’s a chance we can move quickly on the counterattack – something that Col Garland needs to do. C-graders (8) Jack Watts – He’s the closest to an A-grader on our list and the furthest away at the same time. His disposal skills and vision is elite and I’m sure his presence helps lift the standards at training because he rarely misses a target. He’s started to lay the odd tackle but we are all waiting for that breakout game where he nails seven or more tackles. Even better if he committed a suspendable offence, but sadly we all know that’s not his nature. He needs to really hurt himself off-season getting stronger (both upper-body and endurance fit) so that he can become that elite, creative tall midfielder that Roosy correctly earmarked from day one. Jesse Hogan – How can you give a guy who has never played an AFL game a rating? If you saw him in the pre-season, you would know he will be an instant success once he’s fit and more than likely a B-grader within weeks of his first game. Neville Jetta – Some might even now argue that he’s B-grade, but let’s wait and see if he can show such poise and elusiveness next year as well. He’s proof that rookie-listing a player can sometimes work and make them more motivated. But realistically you have to say that he was played in the wrong position for four years, perhaps because James Bennell was the chosen one as a small defender. What I have been impressed with (read surprised) is his ability in the air. Chris Dawes – It’s sometimes hard to get a gauge on the big fella because he doesn’t dominate and kicks bags of goals – but tell me which Demon has done that. What he brings to the table is a physical presence, just ask Adelaide’s Jaensch what he thinks of being tackled by him. I certainly wouldn’t want to be caught holding it by him. To fully earn his money, can he please show Jack Watts how to really work out in the weightroom. Rohan Bail – There’s a group of you who want him dropped each week, but he’s the No.1 Melbourne player when it comes to pressure acts and he plays as a high forward so he doesn’t get any cheap kicks either. Sure his disposal lets him down at times, but his run is ultra important and until Kent or Blease reach his fitness level, then he’s a valuable commodity. Seems to have more awareness of what’s around him this season – hence no knockouts. Col Garland – Second in our b&f last season, Col has the application and speed to be a B-grade defender, but lacks the confidence to take the game on and invariably resorts to the long return kick up the line when he gets it. He did attack a bit more against Port last week, so maybe someone had a word with him. But his closing speed and versatility makes him a key member of our back six. Not sure why he never gets thrown forward, but I reckon he can be a swingman in the Goldsack mould. Jack Grimes – Plenty like to vilify him and seem to memorise his errors. But he’s a smart team player who puts his body on the line and reads the play well. He’s one who needs to go to the Chris Dawes weightroom class, because he can’t seem to shrug off tackles, but that may be partly because of his shoulder problems in the past. There’s no doubting his desire and courage though. Jack Trengove – Anybody who saw his second season knows he can play. He’s a good mark, has good vision and he loves to tackle, but I reckon his lack of pace has made him doubt his value. While his smarts overcome some of this, he urgently needs to find a sprints coach to help build his confidence. The best thing the club can do for him when his foot is right would be to bring in Matt Shirvington for a six-week training block this summer. Misson is good for endurance, but needs to be helped out with sprint drills and technique. D-grade now but with potential to rise (8) Christian Salem – It’s not an easy gig to go from midfield junior to playing small forward in our side, but he gave us all a few great glimpses. He tackles well and that left-foot has been traded down by Adem Yze. As with Yze, I think he needs to spend a season or two playing down back. We really need a classy left-footer in our back six, especially if we don’t lure Malceski, and he’s got great vision. Salem also needs to join in with the sprint classes that have been prescribed for Trengove and Toumpas. Jimmy Toumpas – We all need to get over the fact that Jimmy was taken as an outside mid with speed. He has a good workrate, has a nice sidestep, has great vision and is a deadly accurate kick and every club needs a few characters. But if he is going to make it as a bigtime player, he is going to have to work on his speed and like Trengove needs Matt Shirvington or some other highly-rated sprint coach to come in and help him find the extra yard. Otherwise he’ll have to make it as an inside-mid, which is not beyond him, but is a very hard gig. Aidan Riley – One of the few highlights of a depressing game against Geelong. He’s a typical North Melbourne footballer – great tackler, fearless and can baulk players too. He may lack a little polish, but who cares. He could develop into a Michael Barlow type if he can get really fit after a big pre-season. Dean Kent – Recruited as a midfielder his selfish tendencies, and lack of endurance fitness, have led him to be used as a small forward and to his credit he has applied himself really well in games. His disposal choice still lets him down a bit, but his pace and tackling desire make him worthy at this level. He is only 20 and missed a lot of pre-season, so if he works at it, he could graduate next season into a very useful wing, half-forward. Max Gawn - Big Max is just doing time waiting for his chance to show he can do the biz as the first ruckman and Jamar’s renaissance has meant he has had to do a lot of waiting. We won’t really know where he’s at until he get the No.1 job and we see if he can counter the likes of Jacobs, Lobbe and Minson, but his development has been good and a good reason why we don’t have to waste a high draft pick on another ruckman this year. Jay Kennedy-Harris - I just love the way he picks ball up at pace and gives it off in a flash. Sure he can’t always stick tackles yet, but he has a crack at them and another year of bulking up should see him better-equipped for AFL. The only issue is whether Roosy can overcome his “small-man” phobia and play him and let him take the game on. Matt Jones – After 38 games straight, a zero-tackle game against Geelong brought him unstuck. But it is his “zero-goal games” that worry me. He is an outsider mid with a fair bit of run, a right-foot version of Kade Simpson at his best, but the big difference is that he rarely hits the scoreboard and as such you just wonder if his ability to find space is wasted. The big test will be when he comes back from his VFL punishment, whether his game shifts up a level. Ultimately he may just lack a weapon at AFL level. Sam Blease – Has had to wait a long time to get a game, which is surprising given the fact that he was listed on a wing in Roosy’s media side of those up to it at Melbourne in 2013. He made a late start to pre-season but looked good in the pre-season game against Richmond. A couple of bad fumbles on the run the following week against Geelong and then Hawthorn led to a line through his name. His tackle count has improved slightly at VFL level and we all know he likes to run and score – as he did against Adelaide. I still wonder if he has enough vision (perhipheral) to make it and based on Roosy’s reluctance to play him till now, then you have to think he will be shopped around at trade time. His pace means another club will take him, although third-round at best. But my preference is for us to keep him – he seems to be coming around to the fact that the game is not all about him and goes up the line more now. True D-graders (6) Jordie McKenzie – I wonder how we’d rate Jordie if he was the tagger on a side with plenty of champion midfielders - a luxury that Macaffer and Crowley have. He’s tall, disciplined but his disposal hurts him and he’s only scored 10 goals in 76 games – which given he is never matched up on by an opponent is disappointing. You have to hurt the stars the other way on occasions. Well worth keeping until we decide if Viney is going to be our No.1 tagger or our No.1 ball-winner. Cam Pedersen – A revelation this year, but I’m afraid I still only rate him as a very useful back-up to our talls. He’s shown he has a good leap and he’s got a good work ethic and tank for a big bloke, but lacks the speed on a lead of Dawes or Chip. As a result, I actually still think he could be more useful as a tall backman, an ideal replacement if Tom Mac or Dunny are injured. Jake Spencer – My view of Spencil changed last year when he cleaned up Ben McEvoy and his first seven weeks this season showed he is a very hardworking tapman. Sure he lacks class, but so does Pyke, Mummy, Maric and quite a few others. A very useful back-up behind Jamar and Gawn and I’m really pleased they resigned him. If he’s fit next year, he could lead our VFL side to the finals. Alex Georgiou – He showed in the first six weeks that he is quick and disciplined and not intimidated, but with Tom Mc and Dunn stepping up a level, it’s hard to see him getting a game and his disposal, while efficient, isn’t line-breaking. Happy for him to play on as a rookie but I suspect he’ll want to head back to Norwood and win a flag again. Given the cash problems at Casey, I wouldn’t blame him. Luke Tapscott – It was great to see him playing down back again v Adelaide as that’s where he looked most at home in 2011. We all got excited because he looked like Chappy when he played forward, but Tappy doesn’t have the same evasive ability hence won’t make it up there. His courage and attack on footy is first-rate but he needs to go to the same summer sprint school as Trenners and Toump to really make it. I suspect we’ll re-contract him, but if we don’t, I think he’ll be rookie-listed at another club based on his initial season as a defender. Dean Terlich – At times he can look like he’s a B-grader with his pace and dash but over the past two seasons it’s become obvious that he doesn’t do enough damage on the counter-attack like a Jarrod Harbrow or Rhyce or Heath Shaw because his kicking lacks depth. He’s now lost ground to Jetta’s poise and aerial skills, but he is still worth keeping as a back-up – especially if Clisby, Strauss and Nicho are all delisted. E-graders (7) Viv Michie – I’m not sure why we traded to get him given Roosy seems to prefer tall mids. While he looks smooth, I am not sure he has a major weapon at AFL level, being not overly quick or a damaging kick. Dom Barry – Couldn’t believe it when he got a game at AFL level and worse still we signed him up for two more years. Hopefully the club knows more about his potential than I do. Mitch Clisby – Hopefully he gets a chance at AFL level in next few weeks, but while he’s a reliable running defender, he’s not a thumping kick and his aerial skills are just OK. Jetta’s arrival means he’s one of three small defenders who could be moved on. Michael Evans – His disposal really hurt him when he got his chance this year and after some promising signs three year ago, it now looks like he’s not going to make it. Has another year but wouldn’t surprise me if contract is broken. Dan Nicholson – Unlike most Demonlanders, I actually really like Nicho’s style. He works hard, takes the game on and if he was 5cm taller and could kick it further I reckon he’d be a permanent fixture down back. But alas I suspect Old Melburnians are going to be the happiest amateur club going around next year with a new B&F. James Strauss – I really thought Straussy would make it. He’s quick and is a long kick, but he just lacks intensity and maybe confidence. If I was him I’d head to the WAFL or SANFL where I reckon he will be a regular and his self-esteem could finally grow enough for him to make it at AFL level if given another chance. Jack Fitzpatrick – We were all excited by his development late last year, but he really blew his chance in those first few weeks of the season. He’s been a project player for five years now and he’s quick enough to make it, but his balldrop still hurts him and he just doesn’t intimidate like Dawesy. He’s contracted for next season, but I’d do a Jetta and offer to rookie list him. Not up to it yet (3) James Harmes – I know there’s quite a bit of manlove going around for Harmesy but I still don’t see what aspect of his game is worthy of raving about. Touch and go I think whether to delist him or give him a second year. Jayden Hunt – Looked good in pre-season training, but then struggled at VFL level to win the ball despite his pace. He will need to remain injury-free next season to have a chance to develop enough to warrant a third year. Max King – Another who looked good pre-season, but struggled at VFL level before a succession of injuries ruined his year. Has good skills for a big bloke, but may lack pace and the mongrel to make it. Another who would be touch and go to remain on rookie list. Retired Shannon Byrnes – Yes I know he hasn’t announced it yet, but I’m sure he is just waiting to make sure he gets his full injury payout before announcing it.

I think that when people say they dont care they mean finishing last is not the end of the world. The team has obviously improved significantly from last years by virtually ever measure, except ladder position. We beat Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Adelaide... and we gave lots more including top 4 teams a little bit of trouble. That is success to me. the positiion on the ladder is irrelevant, would you rather play like we did last year and finish 17th instead of playing like we have and finish 18th.

You might have noticed that I've focused on finishing the season off with more wins (3 would be nice and 4 would be great) That would give us a 7/15 season or an 8/14 season and almost certainly would rule us out from finishing last. Sounds and looks a damn side better than a 17 or 18 loss season. I know it's a bit of a longshot but you can bet that the players and coaching staff firmly believe that we can win all our remaining games - and so they should too. That's the business they're in - winning.

That's about it for me. I've always looked at this year as a righting of the ship. I don't think the win/loss column in 2014 has a lot to do with setting the club up for success in the next few years and beyond. I can see we've improved with my own eyes & I believe there remains improvement in the current group. Plus there will be additions. While I'd like more wins, it's not how I'm measuring the season That said I'd be mightly [censored] off were we to be in the same situation in 12 months And we won't come last - despite pulling one from their clackers against Freo, the Saints are pretty terrible

Frawley is a 26 year old experienced player who is in our leadership group. Wait, I'll repeat that. He's in an AFL club's leadership group. The group of players who are standard setters and are held accountable for their ability to guide, nurture and set the tone for the rest of the playing group as well as represent the club strongly on and off the field. For a player to 'explore their options within FA' is of course, completely understandable. For a senior player who is part of the leadership group of an AFL football club to 'explore their options within FA' is also understandable, however a more delicate and sensitive process to undertake as the care of duty that particular player needs to show is amplified by the fact that they are a senior leader of a football club. I repeat, a senior leader of a football club. Here are some statements made by Frawley's manager, Frawley himself and Josh Mahoney beginning from January, which is when James and his manager decided not to engage in contract discussions with the MFC. Jan 31st - Frawley's manager, Alex McDonald - ''James is keen to let the season take shape before we start focusing on contract discussions,'' McDonald said. ''The club has been in constant contact and updating James on where the club is at and their direction.'' ''We presented to James prior to Christmas and we are in talks with his management and are ready to talk to him, but James has indicated he wants to focus on training and playing at the moment and get a better idea of the direction of the club.'' Josh Mahoney 'Mahoney said Frawley had only indicated he wanted to wait before discussing contracts and had not said he wanted to wait until the end of the season. Players who put contract talks on hold until season's end early in the year often intend to leave for another club.' Feb 17th - Frawley on Roos' contract situation. ''Hopefully Roosy can sign for a few more years, that would be nice. Put it out there - Roos can sign for a few more years - he does, I will, done,'' Frawley said, seemingly only half in jest. ''Right now I am very happy at Melbourne … the club is in a good spot,'' he said. ''I am just going to concentrate on footy. I have plenty of time to make a decision and I think if we keep going the way we are … the contract will sort itself out.'' June 5th - Frawley on finals aspirations and loyalty "I want to make sure the club is heading in the right direction." "It (the lure of playing in a flag) plays a part, you always want to win and play finals," Frawley said. "I've been here [at Melbourne] eight years and haven't played any finals and haven't got close really. It'd be great to play finals. “At this club we've seen massive improvement over the last few years and if we keep going in the right trend, we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon." (What on earth is that last comment?) "I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing," he said. So, as we can see Nutbean. There are clearly mixed messages. Whether it's his manager's fault or his own, it still reflects poorly on him as a senior leader of our side. He has also clearly set himself up by saying stupid and thoughtless things such as, "I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing' as well as 'If Roosy can sign for a few more years, I will.' From the first time he put contract talks on hold, he never stated that he'd decide at the end of the year. He said he wanted to see how the club went and what direction it was going in. Well guess what. It's clear we're on the up. Roos has now signed for a third year. The loyalty comment and the finals football comment were almost automated pieces of dribble without a single thought of what the consequences might be if he in fact decides to go. And on top of all of this, myself and plenty of other supporters have been very disappointed with some of the efforts from Frawley during games this year. Some of his on-field actions as a senior leader have been Sylvia-esque-like. Myself and any other MFC supporter have every right to be disappointed in the manner in which a senior leader of our club has gone about 'exploring his options'. I am extremely hopeful he goes as the only way we're going to keep improving is if everyone is onboard and gives their all for this club both on the field and off it. And Frawley, as a senior leader who is expected to help drive this club forward has been questionable in both aspects this year.

I agree with a lot of what you've said and ... I like your "blue sky" thinking, BB but ... essentially, you and I are looking at this from different platforms. I reckon that's the case with nearly all conflicting views. The conflict often comes because we're not on the same page to begin with. Your summary about where the club is currently at is hard to argue with and I'm not arguing those points. We just have different views on the repercussions of finishing last. We're going to find out one way or the other (soon enough) I made the very same argument when the discussion about whether we should keep Neeld on or not was about. My argument then (and I stand by it) was that all sorts of areas of the club can be adversely affected if the misery continued. Getting Roos and PJ on board has lifted a lot of those areas but we don't need a setback that a spoon could possibly bring. Don't get me wrong, it's not the end of the world but ... instead of a huge growth spurt that a club might have with a 'relatively' successful season, we may be looking at a bit of incremental growth only with a bottom of the ladder finish. Of course, it's debatable what a relatively successful season is or isn't but a strong finish to the year for us (3 wins?) wouldn't hurt (considering where we've come from) I'm specifically talking about off field growth and revenues as I believe that on the field, we're in excellent hands with Roos and co. Bringing in some established talent can be effected too if a club is not looked upon with favourable eyes. It's my belief that we need to trade for some genuine A grade talent and even though a better placed draft pick might get you that talent, I firmly believe that far more importantly, we need to be an attractive destination. 18th from 18 ain't attractive. Picks 3, 4 or 5 might be just as valuable as pick 1 to another club.

I think for a great number here there is some automatic association to 'caring' about a particular finishing position and giving a damn about the clubs progress and its future. I tell you that they need not be so tied together. I look at it in the J curve scenario. We needed to dip even further than we were last year because we needed to reinvent our game. Its taking a while but we're getting there. We can now only progress with more of the right style of players on the list. This too will come as will their development . We can all see these elements in play , we can all see effective advancement its just that the one most important stat , that being the final score doesnt reflect this as yet. So just because i ont really give a rats about finishing last doesnt mean I wouldnt possibly like to see a win or two but is such endeavours are unfulfilled and we slip to last I still dont bloody care as I know we're heading in the right direction. Whether youre pruning roses or having an op to fix a little niggle chances are you will be a lot worse off immediately after taking steps to rectify things than had you done nothing. Thats us. Were taking steps but we're not seeing it on the scoreboard yet. it will come. So for mine this is a Straw construct..last place and not giving a damn about the club. I dont care if we finish last because in reality it means sfa as to where and what we do NEXT season and the one after it etc. But for those that are insistent upon wrist slitting and name calling please continue

Look at it from his view MN There is no other way

Not for me I want wins and there is no one at Casey as good as Frawley. That thinking does not work in the era of FA.

Not in my mind. I don't care because I have seen enough improvement and competitiveness to realise we could have won more games with a little more talent and luck. Whether 16 or 18 or whatever, the position on the ladder is related to how many 'flukes' other bottom teams have pulled off etc. If I was sure that a wooden spoon would somehow affect the club in the future, then I might be more concerned, but since I'm not sure of that, I don't really care. Some see that as a weak supporter/bad attitude/all that is wrong with the supporters, I see it as realism.

We are losers. The alternative is reality. Beating the Lions and GWS leaves us 6 and 16. Yay... Beat the Hawks, and/or WCE, and/or NM and you have my attention - beat the Lions and GWS and you have no ground gained and no pride restored.

he had a 50% win record at Carlton with an average list. (that includes going 0-6 in his first season after taking over as interim coach at seasons end). They won 15 games in 2011. The guy can coach, and I reckon he will be even better now having spent time at the Hawks.

Fcuk you guys like to smash G Lyon. The article was presented as an example. You lot are the lazy ones.

That should give you some pause though shouldn't it? McKenzie was offered a big contract by Adelaide but stayed in the rookie list an extra year to help out the Dees. What a great bloke. Some on here wouldn't bat an eyelid if he was delisted this year... Teams want their own good players to sign a year before their contracts are up, and they keep their fringe players until they are not of use, or re-sign them at the last hour if they can't find anything better. The more good players waiting until the end of the season to sign anywhere is progress for a league that desires to be equalised. More movement of players, more market-reality contracts, more spread of talent.

Jeez, the wool has been pulled over your eyes... Do you think the Hawks or Pies were embarrassed to the point where they gave up their PPs a decade ago? Nah, they used them well and won flags on the back of the talent they got. Teams don't want us to have a PP because they want to keep their feet on our necks - it amazes me the level that our supporters care about what other supporters think of us - and here it is again in this thread. Northey used to get the whole club in an "us vs them" lather and we need some more of that around here. Stop caring what your loser friends think of our club - they can GAGF. We should do what is best for our club. I don't care about where we finish down the bottom, I don't care about what picks we will get, I even am getting ambivalent about Frawley's decision - all I care about, as Robbiefrom13 said, is how we finish the season and then how we can build the list after the season.

I reckon Ratten has quite a few big ticks. One, he has been a relatively successful senior coach so knows the caper. Often when a coach gets the bullet it is the end of his senior career as it usually indicates he has not cut it. However as DD notes he got them init finals but Carlton (who suffer from the same messiah complex MFC has over the years) who were hell bent on getting Malthouse in and amazingly thought he would put some shine on them and make them a flag contender. Well Ratten was more successful at the Blues than Malthouse has been - with essentially the same list. Tick. Gets the maximum from a list. Tick Apparently had the support of the players at the blues where he was liked and respected. Tick He has the passion Roos has said is mandatory. Tick Has remained directly involved in the game since he started playing. Tick Has had 2 years as an assistant at the the Hawks under a coach many consider to be the best and has been able to witness the Hawks system firsthand. Tick. I get the sense that unlike say Bomber Ratten would be be happy to do the 2 years as an assistant required as part of the succession plan. Tick Is young enough that if he becomes senior coach could be in the job for a a number of years. Tick Has coached at MFC and by all accounts did well. Tick Perhaps he is not the most marketable of coaches but who cares. To be honest can't think of any crosses.

It seemed to me that Garry just plucked a name out of the hat.

I'm more worried about the size of her thighs. Well done Jess. And a good time to boot.

what a masochist you are if we deserve one on performance we should get one we should have got one last year and the pathetic reasons given by the afl for not getting one have turned out to be wrong have a look at the history of PPs over the last 10 years and there is no question we should get one we should go for every competitive gain we can, other clubs aren't so reticent as for your fear of ridicule from opposition supporters, htfu

You are essentially trying to diminish the rights of the players to explore their options because plenty have said the players 'have the right to explore their options.' It isn't cliché to remind posters (or inform them) that the sports to which AFL is most aligned - NBA, NFL - allow for contracts to completely expire before they are re-signed. At both the behest of clubs and players. I would argue the bigger clichés with regard to this Frawley situation are; 1. The club needs to know soon, for planning reasons. 2. The longer he waits, the more he is 'out the door.' 3. He has shown poor character by not telling what he is going to do.

No hes the guy that got them into a finals a couple of times and then got tossed out for a guy that was suppose to deliver them a flag.Obviously he didn't have the support of the board also. Carlton fan are still absolutely fuming about the way he was treated and rightly so.

Melissa Breen. Australian 100m record holder.

Watch for Josh Glenn from Central Districts in Sanfl. Wing /Half back. Similar to the hawthorn style left footers.

Exactly. Ladder position is much a function of other clubs form as it is our own. I'll be focusing on our own form, not whether or not St Kilda can pluck a win or two from nowhere to pass us on the ladder.