Leaderboard

I've been somewhat banging on about leading in the fourth quarter, but just to get a real sense of our improvement this year, these are the figures for the number of times each (bottom 10) team has been in front at some point in the fourth quarter. Bracketed numbers are number of wins in those games and number of losses. Richmond - 10 (7-3) Gold Coast - 10 (9-1) West Coast - 10 (7-3) Melbourne - 9 (4-5) Carlton - 9 (6-3) Adelaide - 9 (8-1) Bulldogs - 8 (6-2) Brisbane - 6 (4-2) GWS - 6 (4-2) St Kilda - 4 (4-0) So we are the anomaly in this group. We're equal last for total wins, but equal third for leads held in the fourth. We've had 9 fourth quarter leads but we've only won 4 of them, making us the only side to have a sub-50% winning percentage in those games. We've created our chances much more than, for example, St Kilda, who've only had four games in which they've led in the last, but they've obviously taken their chances much better than we have. To me, it's a sign of a few things. First, we play football that, over the course of the year, is more akin to a side finishing in the upper half of the bottom 10. Second, we haven't had the experience or leadership to get us over the line in those close games. Third, we've been relatively unlucky. Fourth, we haven't been good enough to get big enough leads to ensure that we can't be overrun (e.g. our biggest winning margin this year has been 23 points). Statistics/numbers don't always say a lot, and this is just one thing to look at in 2014, but to me it signifies a real, tangible level of improvement and is something to really build on.

She won bronze! Fantastic effort from Jess!

I'm worried about her acceleration.

I must say having Roos in charge just gives me confidence he won't target crap recycled players. Also that because he is in charge we might be in a better position to land a decent player.

I honestly don't think it makes any difference. We are far more competitive. Our percentage is a lot better than last year and that was Roosy's goal. Honestly all it does is solidify our request for a priority pick. The whole AFL community knows Roos is an outstanding coach. It proves we don't have the cattle. The only concern is Frawleys departure will mask it because it'll give us 1 and 2 anyways.

It's about points, wins, and ladder position when you have a good team trying to reach finals.When you are jockeying for 16th... WGAF. We got back on the horse last week with some good footy, I am not about to cry into my beer because the Lions and the Saints have had a couple good wins. The Lions will be a good game with them in some good form and we should beat GWS at the G, but I am more interested in how we go against Hawthorn, WCE over there, and bloody NM in the last round.

FFS read all his posts on this subject he isn't planning on finishing second last. We are being asked about how it will make us feel if we win the spoon. If you don't care and think it doesn't make a difference then IMO the last 7 years have just mentally screwed you. We are currently sitting 17th and were sitting 16th when this question was asked. We have 5 games left this season and if we play to our potential there are 4 games we can win. Lions - Yes Etihad and they are playing well but right attitude and effort we can win Hawks - even the most optimistic supporter wouldn't back us in this game, they are gearing up for the finals and getting back to their best, effort over 4 quarters is the most important thing in this game GWS - back at our home ground and if we bring the right attitude and effort and game again we should win Meth Coast - at Patersons and danger game Coxy's home farewell, but so was Hafey's and Cassisi's. They are ripe for the picking and front running flat track bullies of the highest order, don't allow them a start and turn it into a fight and it is very much a winnable game North - again it is Etihad but last game of the season and we all know there are always shock results in the final round and which North turns up. By god do we owe North for the last 7 years and despite our improvement it was one of our worst performances of the season. They will have their eyes on the final the following weak and I hope our boys are keen to atone from our loss to them earlier in the year So I am clarifying why I will be pi55ed if we win the spoon, I see 4 winnable games which if results go our way will see us finishing as high as 12th, I don't care that it rules out us getting Petracca. The last 10 years has seen enough Selwood, Dangerfield, Wines, Heppells, Salems etc coming at around that mark. We are instilling a new culture and we have an opportunity to finish the season on a high like the Doggies did last season and enter the trade period and off season with optimism and positive media, which will assist us greatly both on and off the field. So again I will be absolutely livid if we win the spoon from here, I want to finish with as many wins and high as we possibly can Go Dees

The original question was how annoyed will you feel. So I'd separate the personal feelings from the issues some have raised. Sure being bottom may have an effect on next year's membership (though I doubt it would be significant). It may affect the player's morale (I have no way of knowing). On the other hand it may lead to better draft/trade options (heaven forbid tanking). etc. etc. But in response to the original question, I personally don't care much. I have seen enough improvement and know we could have had a much better win/loss ratio with just a bit more improvement and luck. I don't care if others think we are a laughing stock as long as I feel confident in our future. I do.

hopefully .....never

What has Frawley actually said? What has he actually done that is disingenuous?

And it is beyond belief that "I don't care" has got the most votes.

Does anyone honestly think that any of the Pies, Blues, Dons or Tigers fans would be happy about "winning" the wooden spoon? The "spoon" might give Frawley a good enough reason to take off and what about the effects on membership, sponsorship, reserved seating sales, foundation heroes, the corporate dollar, Auskick numbers, prime time TV slots, our fixture in general and the effects on the supporter group? No thanks. Also, we need to attract some A grade talent to the club by way of trades and/or free agency. We'd have trouble getting a 2nd glance from a prospective star with another spoon attached to our name ... and do we really want to burden another kid with the no.1 draft pick next to his name? We've come so far in terms of restoring pride and respectability - we need to finish the season off well. We just got to within a few points of a top 4 side away from home just last week - just imagine how we'd be all feeling if we'd got over the line? A lot of us here are rusted on. We won't be adversely effected one way or the other. However, we need new members and we need a number of our lapsed members to return. Forget 40,000 members - we need to have an aim of 50,000+ members. Another spoon would impede our progress.

Depends on how we round out the season, really. If the other teams happen to pluck a few more wins out of their rear ends and top us, then that's just bad luck. If it coincides with us playing limp footy, that would be upsetting. Still think there is no chance of us finishing last though.

Its not the draft where the top pick is useful, its when its used as currency to secure a shiel or cameron ahead of another club. we need to stop looking at picks as only useful in the draft. picks are currency

top effort, and she's only run a handful of marathons

it has become obvious to me watching some of the games over the bye that our list is a long way off the mark. We have some good players but realistically only 1or 2would make it into the top 10 of any other side. Our good honest triers like McKenzie, Terlich, Matt Jones, Bail and may I suggest Grimes would not get a game anywhere else. It's 2 - 3 drafts away and we can't afford any misses.

That covers it stuie Demon supporters constantly over rate their players. The results show how good our list is at present. Someone said earlier we have been very unlucky this year. That fits in the same area, luck has little to do with the fact we will finish in the bottom three or four. Lack of ability is 95% of the reason.

Hawthorn have managed just fine after Buddy left without having to actually rely on looking at potential trades. Likewise, I can't see how Frawley hanging out until seasons end will stifle any plans for next year or the trade period. If he leaves and we land Malceski on top of a handy compo pick it'll effectively be an improvement if you ask me.

Absolutely - good post. What it says to me is that, but for three or so games this year, we've genuinely been competitive. That, in itself, represents a simply mammoth improvement.

I have a theory that because we follow our own club so closely we are so familiar with names like Grimes, Garland, Howe, McKenzie etc etc that our perception is that they are much better than what they truly are in the pool of AFL talent. We're so shocked when our best player is so low in the AFL player rankings because we think he's amazing, when maybe he's good but not as good as what we convince ourselves out of familiarity. Roos has done what he can with the list he has. I'm not advocating tanking, we've seen the damage that did, but I'm not going to celebrate finishing second or third last and not having as much bargaining power come trade time.

I'd be livid. To finish last again, even after all the improvement, and having the best coach in the land, would be disastrous. To put in all that work and improve and still finish last would scar the players further IMO. They need to get tangible results for their effort or it is fruitless. It's the same in any industry; if you bust your ass and don't get rewarded for it, then it effects you. You either don't think you're good enough, or you mentally check out and do the bare minimum until you can move on elsewhere. If we finish last I'll probably burn down someones house in a fit of rage.

Terry Wallace did some minor re-jigging of his TAC FUTURE STARS Rolling Draft in today's programme:- 1. St. Kilda Patrick McCartin 2. Melbourne Christian Petracca 3. GWS Giants Peter Wright 4. Brisbane Angus Brayshaw 5. Western Bulldogs Sam Durdin 6. Carlton Paul Ahern 7. Richmond Liam Duggan 8. West Coast Jayden Laverde 9. Adelaide Caleb Marchbank 10. Gold Coast Jarrod Pickett

Yes, well done DH. Just sharing what I heard. Nothing more. Let me know when you have an opinion worth hearing...

Severe hamstring injury - hasn't played since NAB Cup. Been resigned.

People are eyeing off the no.1 pick too, BB ... and the bargaining power it would almost certainly give the club. Let's get that bit right out in the open. I don't believe for one minute that over 46% of voters have a "no care" attitude towards finishing last (if you voted 1-3, you effectively don't care)

The Tigers poaching an average player from another club yet again? When will they learn?

Is the footy still going ??

So JR you are not familiar with Caro's work during our famous "tanking" saga. Her daily personal attacks on both CC & CS?? I suggest you find some of these examples. Caro goes way harder than most. Pat Smith can be the same. Sometimes it is worthy. But many times it is just plain vicious and nasty. She deserves the odd good hard wack

Those searching for the difference between 18th and 16th are confusing the position of those that 'don't care.' We are terrible. We are finishing low again. The very discussion that there is some salvation in not being the worst team, but the 2nd or 3rd worse team, is just utterly pointless. Lapsed members are numb to this, they want to see wins and excitement, they are not going to be beaten down further by teams climbing over us in the next few weeks - they are not watching anymore. The season ended a few weeks back for those that will make up the extra 5k we need to head into 40k member territory. Finish the season strongly for the sake of those left behind (us) but don't think that finishing 3rd last is some grand achievement that will keep members, players, renew hope, and set us up for next year. That will all happen, again, in October and November.

It always seemed a strange option to me. They have some really good young key defenders already and then you have Reid as a swingman AA key back. Why would they pay good money for Frawley?

jumbo returns: makes idiotic comments and assertions, then tries to hide his stupidity under the pretence of being on higher moral ground. Do you even understand the meaning of the words you're using?

So we don't play Frawley all year? That would make sense. Why stop at one year? Why not someone with 2 yrs to run? Or 3y? OK I get you guys are passionate about our club. We all are. But players have been taught over many years that clubs discard them at will. You stop that and you might het some layalty back. Bt it won't happen. And players have their rights to do it. You are blinkered if you can't see that. As for the 'club needs to know ' line. Bulldust. Read my post above. They make plans all the time for contingencies

Pisses me off big time, to think that it can and probably will happen. But then I sit down and think what has caused us to be here. Our on field leadership stinks. Last weeks loss proved that beyond all doubt. All the leadership group stunk it up big time in the last 5 min. We deserve to be where we are until we get some real leaders.

Jack Lonie is a nigh on certainty to get drafted - and probably a lot higher than many think, the performances of Lewis Taylor and JKH and others will have done him no harm. There will be clubs that will put a red line through Lamb for intangible reasons and for the fact that he is so wildly inconsistent. There will also be clubs like North Melbourne, as an example and I have no inside info on this, that may take him early if they feel he could add some instant potency to their forward half whilst they see themselves to be in the 'window'.

Duggan's got terrific skills and would be ideal for that half back distributor we (desperately) need. I'm hearing that recruiters are rating him as a fringe top 15 guy, but he's looked pretty good every time I've seen him, so not sure what I'm missing. I'd have him in the 7-10 range, but I think we'll see a fair variance in how teams rate prospects this year. Had another look at Brayshaw out at Trevor Barker Oval today. My main concern with him is that he lacks composure in traffic. Given his forte is supposed to be his inside work, Angus default clearance method appears to be to slam the ball on the boot as opposed to using quick hands to find a teammate in close (and thereby retain possession). He did this a number of times in the Championships, and he turned it over regularly again today. When out in the open, Brayshaw is a very nice kick, so I'm putting it down to his decision making in traffic. Overall I still think he's in the best three (all-round) mids in the draft, but I think guys like Blakely and Gore are more effective inside players than Brayshaw. Sandringham as a team were extremely disappointing today, so Angus didn't get a whole lot of support, which may have had some bearing along with some pretty wintry weather. As a whole Dandenong were quite impressive, with Jack Lonie a lively creative small forward who could be good value if he's available late, and Mitchell White impressive as a utility with good height and good skill, the standouts. Tom Lamb unfortunately looks like he may drop down the draft order. He has an obvious wealth of talent, but lacked discipline and looked like he would only play the game on his terms. Should be doing a lot more than he is, and noticed him ignore instruction from the team runner in order to chase easy kicks. It led to an almighty bake from the Stingrays coach. I've heard some recruiters have gone right off him, Lamb will need to address the attitudinal questions to avoid sliding further.

I've always said Roos & Stone will know his worth probably better than anyone. May have a lot of upside.

It will be bad for membership if we finish last again. Die-hard Demons like us appreciate the improvements that have come this year, but for most of the punters who have yet to sign up and don't follow the footy media religiously, they're far more likely to view 2014 as just another sh*t season indistinguishable from the previous 7, than as a stepping stone to recovery. If we pick up the spoon this year, we can kiss goodbye to 40k membership.

What if a player actually has not decided? I think the AFL should go the opposite direction and not allow contracts to be signed until October. There is plenty of time to organise for next year - only about a third of the list is OOC every year, in the NBA the Heat had about 2 players under contract after the season, the Lakers had 1. Clubs can act appropriately at the end of the season. They keep fringe players hanging until the last moments, players are doing the same. Clubs can get used to it.

And Cross.

Some said similar about Vince...

No it wouldn't be pathetic. Its perfectly normal. If you resigned your job to go to a competitor what would your employer do? Its the way of the world get used to it. As for planning, the club has been planning for both contingencies for two years at least. Thats what list managers do. They plan the salary cap, they plan players improving, falling out of favour getting injured etc. They have back ups and alternatives. They game different scenarios all the time. What else do you think they do?? Chip is absolutely doing what he should. Its a business. Don't confuse your loyalty to the club colors with player loyalty. Players get dumped by clubs all the time. Clubs don't show loyalty, why should players?? Junior showed loyalty, what happened? Really you need to take a more mature perspective on this,.,

As far as im concerned, hirds willingness to inject himself and his players with drugs not yet approved for human use totally casts doubt over his playing days.

Wouldn't mind that moron as our long term coach

After hawks v swans block buster... any players from these lists would be welcome. Gary Rohan impressed me and if available, would be handy!!!

Judging by your tone you are a rusted on Lib, but regardless you should be aware that you have been sold a pup with regard to the debt "crisis". We are not in massive debt. Nothing close to it. Even when accounting for the measures that Abbott has taken in his first year to accentuate it, our debt to GDP ratio (27% up from 20% in 2013) pales in comparison to the likes of Germany, (81%) Japan (237%), US (106%), indeed the vast majority of the developed world. Furthermore, now is not the time to be tightening our belts to the point of strangulation. Governments should act counter-cyclically by saving during the booms and spending during the downturns. The budget on the table is pro-cyclical – tightening belts further when times are already toughening. Simple, bad, economics. But, when you have an idea of how the country should run that you are absolutely dedicated to, good economics can become a secondary concern. Debt isn't the ugly word that Abbott wants you to believe. As long as it is manageable, which it certainly is, it can be necessary to avoid recession, which we managed to do during the GFC. Just in case that needs to be pointed out again.

I have a gardener to nance around in my garden. Anyway .... Just woken up – had to have a kip after my “workout”. Well it wasn’t actually a workout – but interesting. Don’t understand how people enthuse about this gym business. I arrived at the “Leisure Centre” and met with Katie, my fitness consultant. She took me into a small office where I sat on a tiny chair and parked my guts on the table. Things apparently didn’t proceed according to the normal plan. Katie tried to take my blood pressure but the machine kept conking out and reading “error”. She gave up and started taking measurements. The problem, however, was that neither her arms, nor the tape would fit around my girth. The final straw was that I wound their scales off the meter. Katie then spoke to another fellow who made a smartarse comment about a weighbridge. Katie then said she’d consult with my doctor before going any further but offered to show me around the gymnasium before I left. In an odd way I immediately felt at home. Here were all these people in tight costumes with red faces, grunting and groaning. They were surrounded by or using a range of very odd machines and implements. Apart from the lighting, it was very much like the BDSM clubs that Biffen had arranged entre for me on occasion. I asked Katie where the whips and canes were kept but she didn’t answer and left without saying goodbye . I am guessing that information is reserved for members. All in all an interesting morning but if they expect me to start lifting those treadmill things , I wont be going back.

"Literally from the horses mouth" = brilliant.

Who cares honestly the draft has not saved us, finish as high as we can and take the best player available. It's about building a winning culture

I am with wyl. Of course the Emblem is busy. If you'd been through what this club has been through - you couldn't represent yourself in a cereal box caricature. 156 years of inventing the game, dealing with war and depression, borne out of a Cricket Club and a Stadium - there is no simple logo that is going to do this club justice.

Sushi is great but not the topic. Yes the Emblem is busy. The MFC has been through a lot. You don't like it. I do.