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We truly live in the age of instant. Unlike past generations, we will purchase goods without saving first; expect a message to arrive within the minute; accelerate hard to the next traffic light; and ask a colleague 'how they are feeling' multiple times in a day. In this 24-hour media cycle and the era of instant, the media and supporters expect change and improvement now. When we don't get it, the world caves in. Clarkson arrived at Hawthorn at the end of 2004. He had the luxury of getting there after a rebuild had started. The 2001 draft (3 years prior) yielded leaders in Hodge, Mitchell (Brown). The 2004 superdraft yielded Franklin & Roughead & Lewis. Then look at how they topped up with the likes of Guerra, Hale, Dew, Lake. Certainly no Pedersen, Gillies, Byrnes, Rodan. Despite this, Clarkson's Hawks were lambasted by all for their chip, chip sidewards stuff in the early years. But what chipping does is keep the ball in our hands; off the opposition; and gives players numerous opportunities to make decisions and execute in a real game-time environment. By 2008, the flag was still considered lucky and premature. Geelong's rebuild started in 1999 when Thompson arrived. In 2006 they failed and the whole club went through a "crappy review". That early period (5-6 years) of decent drafting set them up for the 2007-2013 windfall. It took Thompson 6 years to reach that Swans/Davis preliminary final; and then the next year to have the whole set-up reviewed after a failed year. I also watched Collingwood v. Sydney in 1987 on Foxtel last night; a year after Leigh Matthews took over as coach. They were bloody ordinary, with several duds. Thank goodness the media/supporters didn't slit their wrists then because the next few years would be fruitful. It was a 91 point loss after nearly 1 year in the job! He took over in round 3 1986...coached that whole year. Then a whole pre-season with them in a time before players-association induced training maximums over summer. Then to host Sydney at Victoria Park and get thumped. When we lost by big margins previously, we were smashed at contested ball, tackles and basically had our full team on the park. The West Coast thrashing hurts, but the fact that we won the contested ball and tackles must surely point to progress in this short-term. Then you have Spencer at the centre-bounces in the first quarter, up against the most dominant ruck combination of all time. As Roos said, if you lose the centre clearances, it opens you up to a 5-on-5 or 6-on-6 in our defence, which is opposition forward utopia in modern footy. If Roos had his time again, I doubt that he would publicly condemn the skill-errors. I'm sure this wasn't one of the 20 things he wrote about in his Must-Remember-If-I-Coach Checklist when he retired from playing. I think you can have a go at effort and defensive pressure etc... but no player tries to fumble. The more the microscope falls on skill, the more it tends to unravel. Much has been said correctly about our lack of height up forward due to injuries. It lowers our eyes and encourages the opposition to close our space more and more. Much has been said correctly about our lack of ruck stocks due to injury. Against Nait/Cox expect to be smashed. Not enough has been said about our inability to break a line with speed; or take them on with strength. The inclusion of Blease and Garland will help slightly here. I'd rather a Melbourne player take them on, get tackled; get pinged; get judged holding the ball; allow the team 3-4 seconds to go into defensive mode..... than nervously try and avoid a tackle cough-it-up and turn it over in a heartbeat. We just have to be patient and take some pride in contested numbers and tackles. We also need a different response to media & supporter questioning if things don't turn-around soon. It is difficult when you are trying to please sponsors/supporters and their demand for short-term hope.

Melbourne has contacted Bomber Thompson for the top job post Paul Roos. And they are very bullish at the chances of acquiring him if James Hird resumes coaching at the Bombers next year. My source has an impeccable record on information thus far. Make of it what you will.

When you can [censored] the pebble from my hand, grasshopper. Edit - OMG ! look at the word it censored ! It says a lot about the people who set up the filter !!! this has made my day !!

On Jonesy there is an excellent article on him in the Age today. He is a warrior/champion person.

I'm already looking for an off season period full of hope, positive training news and the number 1 draft pick.

As a physiotherapist, a lot of the assumptions and assumed knowledge on here are frankly garbage. The reality is that soft tissue injuries do not present as a perfect formula. At best we give a framework management and likely return date at the point of diagnosis. This crystallises as the injury heals. Then we start to push toward 'game standard' training, having done everything as needed. Most of the time the plan stays on track, but sometimes that push to the next level results in symptoms. So we reassess and re calibrate the management. And so it goes again. It ISN'T a perfect system, and no matter how many forwards we have injured at once, and how many games we lose and by how much, it never will be. I know a lot of you want someone to blame, someone to be accountable for the rubbish like Saturday. The extension being that if we sack them and get the 'proper' person in, they'll solve it. The fitness and medical staff ARE NOT TO BLAME, so you're not going to ease your frustration and anger by wishing it were so.

Are you sure it wasn't 'Mediocre List' there is that and there's 'Complete and Utter Spud List' which is substantially longer

at about 6.50 tonight.

When we've relocated to Beijing, becoming the first team to play out of China.

How do you know?

More pathetic presumption from posters on here. 'Chronic' means non acute. Thus, the injury occurs not from an incident but arises insidiously. It doesn't mean he's been labouring uncared for with a crippling pain. A 20 year old is susceptible to all sorts of injuries, of which stress reactions in the back are one. He's a huge unit on a still developing skeleton. Any amount of the normal load in training that all the others are doing by the way could present as an issue, based on an inherent vulnerability. This can happen because ' everybody's different'. Shocking I know. Still, those of you who want to push the mismanagement argument, keep going, cos ignorance is bliss I guess.

so is context perhaps yours is ???

You get a Friday session in Melbourne, but there is nothing for us here in Sydney which is very disappointing. I was hoping that my son would get a chance to meet a few of the players again, but alas, it looks as though it's not to be (we can't afford to attend the brunch... and besides, my son has his first game of the season with his team the Newtown Swans Under 12's that morning (game day), so time would be a bit tight. (they had a Gala Day last Saturday and won 3 of 4 games, ending up 3rd overall - made me a proud dad).

The disruption to the preseason of so many critical players has already cruelled our season. They may play but they will not influence in the way you'd want. Having said that, it will be nice to have them back if it happens. I'm in the camp that will believe it when I see it.

lost interest basically try again next year LOL

Then for god's sake don't come onto the thread. He is currently on the MFC list, he is the highest paid player, he maybe the most talented on the list. People are going to want to discuss him.

Rubbish. Stuff just happens sometimes. Patterns of injuries in clubs, or even lack of injuries at this elite, professional level tell us nothing other than coincidence is a [censored], or a blessing, and high expectations make some people reach for blame and conspiracy. However you will keep rolling out that Misson is incompetent and the medical staff don't know what they're doing. Both claims based on the fact that we have injuries to important players.

How could a player spend 18 months at the club only to not be fit for his first senior game after such time. How could a 20 yr old contract a chronic back problem? What is this club doing to these kids? He has not even played a game yet and he has a chronic back problem is asstounding.

OK - I know that the legal profession gets some rough treatment from the general run of the mill punter but there's a special brand of lawyer in town - the Melbourne supporting lawyer who is a member of the Devil's Advocates. As it happens the DA's are having their annual dinner tonight and no doubt the hopes of saving the Melbourne Football Club rest heavily on our shoulders but we do more for the club than merely raise funds (accumulated as a result of the excessive fees we charge). A few years ago, the DA dinner took place in the week following a crushing loss against the West Coast Eagles in Perth (not dissimilar to Sunday's fiasco). I'm happy to report that we gave the Demon officials who attended the function enough sound advice to cause a massive turnaround in the team's fortunes - we beat Adelaide by in excess of 15 goals the following weekend. Needless to say, our power as trained lawyers should tip the scales (and not only of justice) in our favour in a similar fashion. I don't imbibe in cabernet savignon or other like alcoholic beverages and I therefore may report on the event from time to time during the evening. I think the guest of honour is The Ox who will no doubt have some interesting words to impart.

It was never the afl that was pushing for free agency, it was the players association.

In ENYAW's world, every day is April 1st.

I think we are on the right path. Once Morton,Gysberts and Cook get some game time into them we will rise.

5.17 am and again at 6.23

This site is censored way to much.....talk about people from the nanny state

I prefer de udder picture.

talking of (coach) succession from day one was always a crock of shyte you'd just set yourself up for constant media attention and mischief how would you pick an untried coach now as a successor for 3 years time defies logic

Righto time to clear the air on this. I have nothing against Jimmy Toumpas whatsoever. Not once have I "Spewed Vile Carp" I have purely pointed out his deficiencies as I see them which are 1 He is slow 2 He does not win enough contested Ball ( 95% or so uncontested) 3 He doesn't hurt you with his possessions, not talking about efficiency rate, a lot of player can chip the ball back and forwards over 25 metres. Talking about creating forward entries and crucial set up plays ( Gary Ablett is the one I'm thinking of) and no, don't expect him to accumulate Ablett like stats but would like to see some "Killer" Line breaking possesions. 4 He isn't a multiple goal scorer. I can see why we and other clubs drafted him, but in merely pointing out his deficiencies I have the right of opinion. This is my opinion. Jimmy Toumpas may or may not be the player which we hope can improve our footy club. However, the main point of my argument has always been that we drafted the wrong type of player for our needs then and now. This is nothing personal against Jimmy Toumpas, He got drafted by us Fact!! Fact Ollie Wines in hindsight still would have been a better pickup given our needs. Now, one other thing about culture my friend, I attended the 64 Grand Final with my old man as a knee high tacker, and don't remember much about the day. In the ensuing years I have been a passionate paid up member more often than not. My point is this Culture is not up to me to fester, that's the footy clubs job. I can agree with decisions made or disagree as all supporters of every club do in passing judgement about their footy club and its workings its called "Free thought and equally Free Speech" I believe our recruiting for so long has been the worst of any club in AFL/VFL History. Fact we have been paying for a bloody long time for our player choices and some Coaching/ Administration choices. Fact we haven't won a flag for 50 that's right 50 long years. The club has a responsibility to us all to start producing the goods so don't talk to me about "Culture" I know all about winning cultures. I have been involved in successful dynasties in Football and Cricket clubs for a loooong time. I reckon I know one or two things about sport and developing a strong Cultural Base I reckon Paul Roos and the club is in the best position to rectify previous problems. I like what the club is doing. Again I iterate I reckon we drafted the wrong type of player for our needs. This was previous administration decision which sounds very much like a Neeld override if the rumours are true. I wish Jimmy Toumpas all the best and by crikey he had want to develop into a champion. For all our sakes. 5O YEARS I think I have earn't the right to have to insightful commentary about our footy club. PF

I don't know why but the last comment always makes me less inclined to believe a piece of information.

I now believe never, That way I will be pleasantly suprised rather than havng my hopes shattered leaving. Its diffcult drinking from a stubby lying in the foetal position

Does seeking medical intervention on regular occassions count for a medical qualification, if so he is qualified

Misson has had three years with this lot. Every other team in the AFL can run hard for four quarters, and unless I am watching a different team, we seemingly can not. To call that effort as playing with heart is bulldust. Players jog. They meander. They put in token efforts. I watch a lot of footy and there is a discernible difference that you would have to be blind not to see. That isn't skill, that's effort. Even dropping chest marks can be attributed to laziness and not being switched on mentally. I saw improvements in this regard against the Saints. When the game was there to be the won, they did the fundamentals. They lifted their intensity. It was not there against the Eagles because the game was over by quarter time, and that's not good enough. You don't drag yourself off the bottom that way. Thank god for Daniel Cross. He is setting a benchmark that is showing up more than a few others.

Soooo..7 years on the bottom is the reason are talls are injured without even playing a game. Exactly which part of Webbers explanation do you disagree with ? Please also post any qualifications you may have in the medical field and insight into the actual medical condition of the injuries players that will lend weight to your assertion of mismanagement. BB's point is not about the injuries per se but the communication and estimates given. I do understand that there have been some puzzling pieces of information regarding Hogans injury and others - but as far as I am concerned the injuries are what the injuries are. Misson has the reputation of being one of the best in his field - so to claim he has mismanaged is a pretty big ( and completely unsubstantiated) assertion. I also repeat John Longmire's approach when asked about Kurt Tippetts tendonitis - " I am reluctant to give a timeframe" - not sure which is worse - being given timeframes thats are fluid or not being given any information at all.

Hexed! I will believe it when they are running around in the AFL dropping chest marks...

Let's give Toumpas some credit. He's kicked 15% of our goals this year...

If you want to be entirely accurate - this year our biggest problem is not getting smashed in the middle and clearances - or even getting our hands on the ball - it is our complete inability to deliver a football with precision. You would therefore have to draw the assumption that if Roos was drafting right now he would rate receiving the ball and delivering over getting in and under and getting the ball out. Therefore if you were looking at both Toumpas and Wines without the benefit of one and a bit seasons viewing they would still would pump for Toumpas. ( edit - I know that Salem has the reputation of being hard at it - but he does not have the reputation as a "clearance" machine - as an in and under player - what does that tell you about Roo's and Vineys thinking ?) Besides Toumpas having limited preseason last year the biggest point being missed is any player is going to perform better when they are placed in a team that is well drilled and well structured. We expected a Toumpas, a first year player, to thrive last year in team that had no direction, no gameplan, no structure, no heart and no desire. The best analogy I can draw for the likes of WYL and PF is taking Vettel and putting him behind the wheel of a leyland P76 and comparing him to Hamilton behind the wheel of Ferrari and bemoaning what a much better driver Hamilton is. I have watched Ricky Petterd for the Tigers and although he still kicks helicopters he is playing much more consistent football for the Tigers than he played for us. There is a reason for that. He is in a better TEAM, he is given a task/role and he has a fair understanding of not only what he needs to do but what he teammates around him will do.

i like what we did in the Tyson trade. We didn't bring in an absolute new kid, but one that had a couple of seasons under his belt, so he could go just about straight away.

If we are trying to build a team from the draft we are going to be miles behind Gold Coast and GWS especially if we are going to draft on future potential. I would rather have two years of proven form than two years of "just one more pre season and he'll be ok". It never ceases to amaze how some of the posters on here don't understand that a player can play really well in his first year and then GET EVEN BETTER, the thinking is if you start off well you are doomed to fail.

Sassy, don't bother. These morons are completely missing your point. The numbers also point to impact, something WYL and PF and their sycophantic mates will never see. You are wasting your obvious intelligence trying to debate with them. The Toump is being accused of being slow, emotional etc etc! He's a young lad trying to make his way in this Cut Throat industry where not only opposition supporters bag you, but here at the mighty MFC, your own eat you and spit you out. WOW!!!! If I ever stopped supporting this Club, it won't be because of our players and their effort, it will be because of the morons sitting in the outer spewing their invective through their keyboards. I can accept that we have some players maybe lacking in confidence, but who can blame the poor sods if they hear over the fence the vile carp spewed here by faceless cowards hiding behind their anonymity and their Mamas skirt (that would be you PF and WYL). I hope your proud of your carry on and behaviour you faceless, toothless cowards. God help the MFC, the culture is blamed for all our ills. This so called poor culture starts from the Fans sitting on the other side of the (Picket) Fence. The Clubs staff come and go, but by God, the Fans are still there.

THE ESSENDON DOPING SAGA PLAYED OUT ON FACEBOOK

Given it is a few days since Sunday's game and I have partially recovered, this is my take on things so far: We have played two games of the season proper so far. Game One:We competed well, had our moments, copped injuries, kicked poorly, but could have won. Not too bad a performance. Game Two: Got plenty of the ball (better than last season), butchered the ball when we had it and over possessed the ball. Only one player was prepared to be first in for the ball, the rest happy to sit back wait for the opposition to get it and then tackle. I think it is hardly a "Chicken Little" situation just yet though. The biggest concern for me is from Game Two. If you don't move the ball quickly into the forward line you can't possibly kick a winning score or as we saw it a score at all. We gave the Eagles defence a decade to set up with our slow ball movement.If our players thought their defence would simply let us short pass our way into our forward line in range of goals and then just simply slot a goal from a mark they are clearly delusional. We may not currently have much up forward, but I believe if we replayed that game, left a couple of contesting forwards up there, for arguments sake Watts and Dunn and moved the ball quickly into them with a couple of crumbers front and square, we would have got a lot closer than 93pts. Over possessing the ball just sets you up for turnover goals which is currently killing us. No problem with Roos' game plan the boys just HAVE to move the ball more quickly into the forward line. I don't cop the argument we don't have any forwards. We have the guys that we choose for that match in the forward line. At least give them a chance to compete and we will score goals.

It is the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg. We need a structure in which to develop the players, and to date over the last few years, this structure has been lacking. To me in the past it seems as if we have recruited players and believed that with low draft picks we have a completed player ready to go and in no need of nurturing and development. Now we are in a situation of maturing players that have not had the support and development they required. Therefore, your assertion that the players are not good enough may well be correct. I am prepared to give them a chance to develop within a proper structure for a while before I kick them out. Frawley is a great example of the players problems with the club. Chops and changes with the footy department, upheaval in the administration and uncertainty with the future of the coaching team and on top of that, no enjoyment in playing the game he loves. put in place a structure to get the best out of Frawley and you will have solved 90% of the problems with the team.

Should have made a citizen's arrest and released him onto the park once a week for a couple of hours.

It has been a long while since I had the opportunity to watch the Dees live because I have been living in Europe for a number of years. When possible I watch replays and every now and then a live streaming. I have been able to watch replays of the first two rounds and my observation is that I really feel for the players and the way that they have been coached and treated for the last 3-4 years. They have had to go through 3 different coaching setups and styles. 3 (at least) different game plans. That is assuming none of the three Coaches Had/have a plan B. They have faced the internal upheavals to the club management and the death of a club legend who was the President and driving force. On top of that, a media blitz and detailed analysis of every event. Early on in Neeld's coaching stint I questioned his methods. I did not think his 'My way or the Highway' attitude to the players was correct. Instead of looking at any strengths there were within the group and working to those strengths while also working towards a game plan, he stopped them dead in their tracks and said 'This is the direction you are taking. No exceptions. Do it now.' To my mind this completely demotivated individuals and destroyed any group culture. It sucked the life out of the team and there was no enjoyment in it for the players. Over the last few seasons this has just compounded into to an endless downward cycle. The task Roos has is a formidable one. He has to restore the individuals and also the fabric of the team. To my mind, work with the individual players as closely as possible. Give them the framework in which to work (game plan) and make sure that they know they will need to take risks to succeed. Some of those risks will work and some will not. The only repercussions of failure will be because of failure to learn from the mistakes. I would love to see my team winning. It has been a while and that will take a bit more time to come about. What I want to see every week from my team in the interim is that they go out there and provide some excitement. They go out there and show enjoyment in playing the game, some passion. The game plan is important to long term success but to expect them to go out there and execute it 100% from day one is a fantasy. We are playing a high passion game with limited skills and practice at doing so. we have had exactly 2 competitive games to express this style of play and very limited opportunities at turning possession into attack with confidence and speed. In any team sport one of the keys to success is sped and precision of transition from defence to attack and vice versa. Our team has not had the experiences to execute these important phases of play. Look at he West Coast game. Their speed and precision on the turnover was great. One big factor in this was that they knew that their team mate would compete for the ball and they started their movement for space half a pace (at least) before we could react. With our lack of a workable coaching structure and lack of success over the last few years the club has retarded the development of a number of key players. We will need time to bring them on and make sure we can get the very best out of them. 1 pre-season is not enough to complete the job. I will be very disappointed if Roos walks after 3 seasons and equally disappointed if Jackson leaves after this season. The team and the club need a period of continuity and stability if they are to survive and give themselves and opportunity to thrive. I am as [censored] off at the results such as last weekend as the next supporter but I believe I have an understanding of how we came to be in this situation. I still need to see that we have the tools to dig our way out of the present situation. All I ask is that the team and coaches give me a bit of excitement each week. Something to enjoy. Forget about media scrutiny and Political correctness. I know that the team is just as [censored] off with losing as I am. Be mindful of the long term ambitions of the GAME PLAN but play with passion and enjoyment each and every week. Do handstands, climb a goal post, run circles around someone that is standing you. Enjoy yourselves, take us along for the ride. I care about the results and will always follow the Dees but I would like return on my investment of time, money and passion over the years. Not asking for much. A bit of excitement and a bit of enjoyment, a laugh or two. End of rant and if you have read this far, I salute you.

You must be very proud.

draft talk already how depressing

The injury list decoded (thanks to the good people at Bletchley Park) Available = 1 week Test = 1-2 weeks 1-2 weeks = 2-4 weeks 2-4 weeks = 4-6 weeks (the TJ special) 4-6 weeks = 8-12 weeks TBC = season TBA = expect a retirement announcement Indefinite = we're clueless.

Can't keep saying the list is shyte or not afl level.they came from the same places as the other tattooed whankers playing at other clubs. It's only footy- not fkn rocket science. No guts ,no pride, no respect for themselves or others is the only issue. The rest is balls.

Dennis Commetti Ablett to Barnes to Chapman the Cats are attacking alphabetically All without hesitation and without drawing breath Was the best bit of impromptu commentary I have heard

It would be much more amusing if we were to find out that the Bandidos have warned Toby Mitchell to stop associating with Jake King.