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On AFL 360 tonight, Gerard's "Sure Thing" for this weekend is that Sunday will be "The last day of a Dismal Demon Era". Man, do we ever hope that proves to be true, and we come out in 2014 a rejuvenated and exciting outfit! Here's to 2014 and beyond...!!

You're kidding right? Hird was primarily responsible for the implementation of a supplements program that at best he failed to supervise and manage appropriately and at worst was an illegal drug program. Either way he's put the careers and health of his players at risk. The program was so poorly managed that the Club and club doctor can't even tell you which players took what supplements. Hird is being portrayed as a hero by Burnside because he accepted a 12 months suspension and EFC have been stupid enough to extend his coaching tenure by 2 years the day he was found guilty. Wilson calls him out on it and highlights the stupidity of the situation. She's not being some sort of moral arbiter, she's expressing the concerns of the majority of clear thinking people. Think about it. You've an employee who has disgraced your club and threatened the health of your players, cost you $2 million and draft picks and admits his involvement in it and you extend his contract the day he's found guilty. Far from being a moral arbiter Wilson has been mild in her critique. If it was anyone but Hird you'd never see them in football again.

I think that the behaviour of Essendon and some of its officials in the supplements scheme, was disgusting and since February this year, despicable.

I'm not going to pretend I have any idea of the actual fitness levels of our players. They clearly don't work hard enough during matches, but anyone attributing that to Misson's fitness program is just guessing.

I am certain it will be Roos, or someone else.

Essendon just oozes contrition and regret in its decision to extend Hird the moment he was suspended. Thumbs its nose at the AFL. Perhaps the AFL might retaliate with next year's draw.

Bad teams become bad because of decisions THAT club makes. Everyone in a position to get draft assistance has put themselves in that position. I am not about to let other clubs shame me into thinking that we shouldn't get draft assistance because we have 'brought this on ourselves.' And I am certainly not going to allow the 'pride' of MFC supporters to let the club shoot itself in the foot by not receiving what the League has placed in its by-laws as important to the integirty of the game to even the competition. We have had Blease and Scully as draft assistance. That was five and four years ago. We have gone 22-63-2 with % of 75 in the years since our last 'hand-out.' Carlton had 4 PPs (three pre-draft) over 5 years from 2003 to 2007. Hawthorn had two pre-draft PPs over 2004 and 2005. Our competitors would like us to stay down as long as possible and not get the kind of help we require and the League needs us to have. I would prefer them having a whinge than us struggling in front of their smug faces.

No way will we solve our midfield problems in the 2013 draft and trade period. They are deep and require strong action. Our top picks in 2014 should still be used on midfielders.

You sit back and read about 'Oh it would be great to get pick 20 for Sylvia' or 'Oh lets just get what we can for J.Watts' But the fact of the matter is... We can't afford to lose top 10 players. If we can barely keep our best players.. so how do you all think we are going to attract other top players??

I just wish they would get on with it to be honest.

You can keep going but I didn't close that thread. It was Andy (Demonland) that closed it and quite rightly. I never was into the "faceless men" thing - that was a description attributed to me by others. I still very much believe in the truth of the claim made to me by a poster on 30 October 2012 that a disgruntled former employee caused the enquiry to proceed when it would otherwise have died and that he was encouraged by others to do so. I have no doubt that history has proven that claim correct because unless you had inside information about what the AFL knew (and indeed Wilson knew) on that day it would have been nigh on impossible to guess the identity of the person who told the vault story to the tanking enquiry. As for that poorly run football department, it certainly did make three finals series but by 2005/6 the seeds of poor recruiting, list management, player development etc. had already been sown and we've paid the price for bad decision making in that area ever since (and I'm not excusing what went on under Bailey or Neeld). The majority of our list is made up of players recruited in the past decade - the administrations of Gardner, Stynes and McLardy all bear responsibility for what we have now. "Also Gardner didn't create the debt he just didn't eradicate it, something you've not recognized that I've seen. The $5m debt that existed at the end of the financial year in which Gardner left included such things as the payment to Paul McNamee which had nothing to do with Gardner. Given that Schwab in effect replaced McNamee you can hardly argue it was a good move." That's a complete cop out if you then turn around and blame the Stynes/McLardy/Schwab admin for presiding over a loss this year. At least they eradicated the debt or most of it (depending on what this year's figures reveal). Anyway, when are you going to take your own advice and "move on".

I think that is one of your poorer posts Rhino and on reflection, I am sure you will agree. You attack Fev and Libba and yet say nothing about Brock. You know my point, that on Brock's say so, we copped a 6 month investigation and then penalties. Yet on Fev's and Libba's more direct allegations nothing happened. BTW, a few years earlier Libba was lauded by the whole AFL community and everyone wanted to hear what he said. Obviously that only applies to Brownlow week. Not one supporter, from any other club suggested to have tanked, that I have spoken to, disagrees with my assertion, that we were targeted, to the exclusion of the other more powerful and better connected clubs. I think AD agrees because he got rid of the bloke that started the investigation as soon as he returned from his overseas trip.

Now here is the sort of player who WOULD make a difference to our midfield. (Unlike this ridiculous Greenwood talk) He is a team first, tough and very professional AFL player with the highest training habits and standards. I was lucky enough to meet him through a degree I was studying years ago and he is exactly the type of head down bum up personality we need to compliment Jones. He is the exact opposite of someone like Sylvia. He has no ego. He is a team player and much like Dawes and Clarke would help set training standards and habits. It's like injecting good bacteria into the club. Posters may question my views on Cross in comparison to Greenwood, (because he isn't highly skilled either) - But for the MFC, someone like Cross being around our young midfield would have a much greater impact on the development of our youngsters than that of Greenwood. And that's exactly what we should be looking for. Big yes for me.

Such as a former player saying on TV, that his former club were into list management and he didn't like it. But not like another former player and his assistant coach, both saying their club tanked and using the word "tanked" on TV and in the press and in a book. Yes I can see how an impartial organization starts its investigations. PS. I believe the AFL investigators had fishing lines, reels and rods and tackle bags, in the corner of the room they used as an investigation room.

Find it strange the Watts parents in a Adelaide function. The Watts to Crows got a mention in the MFC season wrap on the AFL website. Any deal would need to include another club or players. I don't blame Sylvia if he wants to go, he has 3-4 years left, we will get band 3 for him which will be about pick 20, thats about right. Of the two I hope Sylvia stays, Watts can go as long as we get the right trade.

Coaching 101: Outline a 3/5/7 year plan so you can keep your job for that long under watchful hopeful eyes.

Let him see out his 3rd year. Unlike Neeld, he actually has runs on the board at other clubs.

He outlined a three year plan and we should wait for the end of that before judging him I think (does this sound familiar?). I'm hoping it's a case of working on the endurance first and getting the miles into the legs, then maybe stripping it back focussing on burst fitness and explosive running this preseason.

Just from the title of the thread I was willing to vote YES

Dank suggesting names of NRL talent for them to have a look at as well. So not only was he their resident biochemist he was giving them recruiting tips. And now they say he was a complete outsider and they had no knowledge of his program?

PROS: 1. Leader-200 game player 2. Wins contested footy 3. Helps Jones while Viney is developing 4. Better than what we've currently got CONS: 1. Old 2. Slow 3. Exposed on the outside- no spread 4. Takes the spot of a young developing player on the list My gut says to go down the youth path, but Cross has some merit while we're transitioning our midfield. Not the worst suggestion. I'll sit on the fence for a while.

I don't want to get worse either, RB. But if they wish to leave then we have to use them as assets. Let Sylvia go, strongarm the AFL for Band 3. And push Watts to the highest bidder and try to get a young, hard running mid. These kind of decisions are not the reason we are terrible - it is pushing Bruce and McDonald out early for nothing. And it is drafting like the Minnesota Timberwolves for a decade. If Watts and Sylvia get us Pick 17 and half of Rory Sloane then our list may be better in 2014 and will be better in the medium term future.

probably

I cannot believe some people are relaxed about Watts and Sylvia potentially leaving. Our list just gets worse each year. The list management at this club is criminally inept.

Could he coach us via phone?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if once Matthew's ticket is elected and Johnson turfed out that Voss will be re-instated as senior coach. Watch it happen.

You really do overestimate her impact. She didn't get anyone fired. To think othewise is silly.

You are absolutely right.. Get around me!

http://www.youtube.com/embed/gqdNe8u-Jsg

His failure to manage his list has cost him his job, specifically the Fevola debacle and his attempt at trying to squeeze out another flag of his ageing stars by supplementing his list with NQRs. He should have begun a rebuild earlier and this cost him....but is he a failure at coaching? Perhaps he weilded too much power over the construction of his list? Some young players have developed very nicely under his coaching. Surely it is worth investigating? I expect that he has learned some lessons in list management in the last few years.

Bob,I don't know why you continue to misrepresent my position which is that the Stynes/McLardy administration did some very good things along with some bad which included a failure to improve the club's core business which is to produce a successful football team. I'm also on record as saying that to some extent this was due to what it inherited from previous administrations which left a horrendous debt of $5m and a poorly run football department. You might translate that into excusing our club for questionable actions but if it's questionable to do what the AFL CEO explicitly approves of then you're quite right but if you think I'm extending generosity to anyone you should consider what you did recently with the Gardner administration in a recent post when you glossed over the fact that it bled several millions in less than a year before it was replaced. Other than that, perhaps you and indeed all of us would be best off by taking your own advice which is to "move on".

You mean getting arrested for drunkenness twice on an overseas trip, consorting with gangstas and doing wheelies tearing up the carpark of your training venue is not the work of a social misfit, not to mention an axe grinder of the highest order?

Tammi said NO !!!

How can us outsiders have any idea if he's failed or succeeded? Fitness and conditioning is not something that just happens over night, especially when you keep turning the list over and the list gets younger and younger. It takes time to build a fitness base. I would guess Mission was following Neeld's instructions re: endurance. A new coach might be a different view. I have no idea how we can judge somebody when we have no idea how players' fitness has actually progressed. His track record shows that he can be part of a very successful club.

Absolutely go get him. A veteran body with leadership skills and he is actually a good player too. This wont be a pointless move like getting Byrnes /. Rodan.

Of anything I'd like Misson to stay so that a new coach can sit with him and say: "Tell me about the players. What is there fitness like? What are individual strengths and weaknesses? Who can improve? Who won't improve?" That aspect is important, and I think while it is important we "start again" with coaching staff I think some continuity will be really good for a squad that has had more coaches than hot dinners.

You need to understand that no one at Essendon did anything wrong at all. It is all the fault of the rest of the world, but absolutely, definitely, not them.

He would be the locker room leadership we are lacking. Yes from me. 2 year deal.

IDK let PJ and the new coach decide.

I think the one thing that gets my goat about this whole thing is how could you not have records of what was given? I mean players vitals are monitored in just about every way imaginable these days, their BFI, diet, training loads are all monitored- yet we are to believe that no one kept records of what was being injected into the players on a regular basis? I don't buy it. They either had the records and destroyed them, or they didn't record the substances at all, and quite frankly it's bloody hard to decide which one of those events is more frightening. I'm not just saying this because of my unbridled hatred of this piece of crap team, but if I was a junior player at essendrug I would want out, and I would want out yesterday. I would feel betrayed and angry that the introduction to my AFL career has been hijaked by the biggest scandal in Aussie rules history, and I would always have to worry about possible ramifications from whateverr cocktail has actually been injected into me- on a regular basis. They will burn for this, one way or the other. These first penalties are only the entree, ccan't wait until the full report is finalised and we have the meat and bones to feast on. yum yum

Really? Lake was traded. 100% positive on that. Surely he was eligible for free agency? In any case. You are wrong. Monfries was a free agent. He was traded because Port did not want to dilute their compensation for Pearce. Look it up if you need. Wikipedia - afl draft 2012.

No way we will take Lewis Taylor at pick 3 and Crouch won't go through to 19.

Tahiti sounds nice.

I often have a look on here, but this is the first time I've posted. Have a read of this, it's a great article that should put some minds at ease - not Trengove's but I don't think a cream is all that bad. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dealing-with-dank-20130426-2ik8y.html

I think you may be bang on there Striker. Andy D is a greater ally than many realise. It seems Gillon is more inclined to believe there are too many clubs in Melbourne. that school of thought combined with new tv rights negotiations is a threat to any side that isnt competitive.

I don't care, I'm so fucken numb from all this shite we have thrown up, if they closed the doors I'm not sure that my life would be worse off.

what ever happens no one make a joke.... !!!

Great does that mean we will finish 9 th as well

I saw a clip last year of Toumpas in U18. In one game Toump got 3 receives on the outside of a pack. Guess who was on the inside...? It wasn't by breaking out Todd Viney style. Aish made his own space, Peter Matera style... He's a goodin'.