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They avoided a full disclosure but they did not lie about dank not being involved. The problem is that it looks deceitful. Like tanking. Like firing schwab because he "divides the supporter base"; like saying that the coach does not know why they players aren't playing well. LIke saying we had a "rigorous process" about recruiting Neeld; like saying "High performance with high integrity". Like firing the CEO and then re-hiring him and firing the coach after the players tell the pres-in-waiting that they cannot stand the ceo. Lies, deceit, half-truths, betrayals of trust. Again and again and again. And to think that when this Board or the club processes have been questioned by posters on this site for several years, the questioners have been smeared and derided as "splitters" or informants to the media.

This at least explains why our players have been so completely unmotivated in their performance, in our first 3 games. I think we have all been frustrated by the inability to understand WHY, at the beginning of a new season, after such a good pre season, the players clearly arent trying. Not chasing, no second attempts, no tackling, slow, appearing unfit. It hasn't made sense. But now it does. The text messages abruptly stop at the time of essendon's press conference. Can you imagine the sh@t that would have hit the fan, at that point, in our footy department. As yet, unidentified decision makers, (Schwab?), decided rather than go to the afl as essdon did, we would keep it in house, and hope it doesn't get out. Players are panicking, reassured by neeld, mission, Craig et al, but as the full catastrophe of essendon, is revealed, players aren't buying it. They, mistrust their coaching/ fitness team, they put in performances, that we have all witnessed. I feel so sorry for them. I am furious at the incapable management of the football department and of the club itself, who are responsible for the complete embarrassment our club is becoming. Get rid of them all. Peter Jackson is coming in. Good. replace the entire coaching team, the players will never play for them. They mistrust them. Bring in intim team of coaches for rest of the year, with the aim of getting EXPEPERIENCED coach with proven ability. Headhunt, be proactive, think outside the square! Be brave. Our family will still go to the game on Sunday, even though hopes for a win have gone. We are not at the bottom yet, the players will be more shattered than before, if possible. But we must support them. This is our club! And we need to stay strong. Don't let the supporters add to the problems of our club, by giving up! Lets continue the fantastic enthusiasm of last weeks training turn out. Go Dees!

Earlier tonight, the MFC Board allegedly attempted to cut a deal with the AFL by offering to forfeit all premiership points for the 2013 AFL season. The AFL was not amused.

Renew.

Apologies in advance if other people think this is merely duplicating what others have said in other threads. But there have been so many duplicate negative threads recently (with just cause) that I thought this warranted its own. It's our darkest days at the moment. I know we've been promised that the light at the end of the tunnel is near & are sick of the spin going into every new season... but this guy is a light in a virtually starless sky. When he was chosen as co-captain, I thought it was because Grimes had not been able to string a full season together (prior to last year) and they did not want to be playing without a captain most weeks. Trengove had obvious leadership qualities but was very young as we all know. In hindsight and from afar, it looks as though Jones and Clark would have made good (perhaps better?) captains. However we don't see the day to day workings at the club and so watching this interview, I got a glimpse as to why he is one of our captains. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-04-17/recovery-claims-untrue-trengove He's what 21? Considering the media pack that is swarming around us at the moment, the composure he shows in that interview gives me confidence. He's on message and his determination and steely resolve in the direction we are going shines through. He's missed the pre-season and has been slammed from pillar to post for being too young to lead by people that couldn't actually have any real idea. His form and speed were disappointing last year (maybe due to injury) and the start of the season has been tumultuous for the club - but he stood there, answered all the questions without giving them the "quote" for another negative article. I used to cringe when hearing previous captains such as Green or Neitz spoke to the media. I don't with Trengove and have equal faith in Grimes. Now of course the obvious response is that this counts for zip if he/they can't lead on the field. But they can. With no pre-season, he's got better with each game. He was down last year but (as all the coaches said so many times last year) he lead the team in nearly all the defensive indicators and his work rate was good despite getting less of the ball. People forget that many teams had him as the #1 pick in 2009 for being able to do it all and despite what you think of our ability to develop young players, in Trengove I see the same focus and desire to be the best he can be that Nathan Jones had when he started. We all know how much Jones has improved and I think Trengove has more raw talent / potential than Jones did. Similarly Grimes captained a team that had Kruezer and Cotchin in it - he can play! We've been getting killed in the midfield - can't be an easy place to be playing for a young footballer - but with Gawn knocking on the door, Trengove and Blease getting fitness back, Sylvia finding form (can he do it every week?), return of McKenzie and the injection of M Jones, Terlich, Kent, Evans, Viney & Toumpas we might not be as far away as some think. It's amazing how much better your attack and defence look when your midfield improves. I still think Trengove was unfairly thrown to the wolves in being made captain so early in his career, but with all he's been through outwardly he shows no signs of it affecting him. Perhaps it has made him stronger - made him grow up much faster than what would normally be expected of a young AFL player. With Grimes, Jones, Clark and Viney around him we have a good young leadership group who are selfless, tough and uncompromising - these guys can and will change the culture of the club.

They lied. That's the problem. I don't care if they were injecting milk. They bloody well lied. It's all this bloody regime can do: lie and balls everything up. They could have taken a slight PR hit and said he'd done some work with us but it was all approved stuff, and we aren't going to use him again, but no. They went and bloody well lied and now we look (even more) shonky and incompetent. They're a bloody embarrassment to anyone who cares about the club.

We should get them all - Ratten, Harvey, Williams , Eade , Knights , Sheedy, Pagan and have a MFC big brother. They all coach and we get to eliminate one each week until we have a winner.

well if the report on 7:30 is anything to go by we have absolutely nothing to worry about. None of the drugs used were banned or are banned now and it said Bates ran it by ASADA and they confirmed it was fine.

Loved this line from Big Footy: He was a smokey for the job, but he suits us, though he'll need to be a wizard to fix our club.

AFL angry we lied, as just reported on FS through email to Barrett. Essendon came out and admitted involvement, now hailed as brave/heroic by the public. Melbourne tried to hide and get away with it through denial, will be hung up to dry surely. I'm sad to say that we deserve it. I can't stand liars, such a despicable human trait and now a huge part of my life has turned out to be one. The pain would be immense i am sure of it, if i wasn't already numb due to the absolute hell ride this football club has taken me on the past 6 years. For no apparent reason here is a picture of a dog dressed up as Batman. It cheers me up, hopefully it can also do the same for you:

Settle down young fella - it's standard business practice.

Morton and Gysberts were on the juice? Give us our money back Dank.

My heart's not in "giving him hell" anymore. Kind of over it. I mean he done us a favour in the end didn't he? He is a hack and a dud number 1 pick and would have been an overpriced burden in a team lacking foot skills already. I'll actually thank him for giving us Hogan. Might even buy his old man a burger or two.

Tanking scandal, drugs scandal, club in the red, brand at an all-time low. And we're not going to call for the board? Jesus.

Who knew isn't the issue. Who decided that coving it up was a good idea is the one I want in the gun.

Denying something to that parasite Barrett is different to conversations with the AFL. Everyone is keen to sink the club for not telling the truth when they has no idea what conversations were had or are being had with the AFL. Since when did Barrett speak the gospel truth? Since when did he report a story truthfully and in full detail without any bias or sensationalism. The situation appears quite different to Essendon on face value and perhaps the majority here need to take a step back and wait until the full facts are known rather than the usual jumping to wild conclusions...

Mate, no one is trying to kill us off. We're committing suicide on the instalment plan.

it's not the taking potentially illegal supplements, it's the LYING about the contact with dank.

We're now Dankers ? $500K fine for Danking...

I reckon Royal watched my dog run around in circles, copied it down and handled it to the players with these words attached "Guys, do his until your getting tackled then handball it 1 meter to a player in a worse spot."

Where does he stand on beards?

It is disappointing that MFC supporters will draw on any bow to make someone a scapegoat for their frustration with the teams performance. Melbournes woes on the footy field have pre-dated Neeld's arrival by about 4 decades. The recent low point began 6 years ago, however rather than looking at these long term and medium terms issues and how Neeld has set about righting them the "scapegoat supporters" can only see the shortest of short term. This miopia is one of the medium term issues that has lead us into this hole in the first place, and certainly won't lead up out. The problems left for Neeld to fix...(Prior to Neeld - what Neeld has done - result so far) The team was not elite in it's fitness and physical preparation - Neeld brought in Misson and Craig to address this - hard to gauge result, but anecdotally good. The team lacked a forward structure - Neeld recruited Clark, Dawe, and Hogan - anyone who isn't looking forward to our forward set up in 2014 needs their head read. The team lacked leaders especially successful and experienced ones - Neeld recruited Clark and Dawes, turned over the leadership group making the best young leaders at the club captains (who would want Moloney captain? really!) - Grimes and Trengove have been OK under very trying times, turn of the wheel and they will flourish. The teams midfield was weak and one dimensional - Neeld recruited Viney, Toumpass, Barry, Jones (M), etc... - needs time and more experienced player in there. The team had a weak or indulgent culture - Neeld axed and traded players after a year who he thought were not bought in, soft or physically underdeveloped and surplus to our needs - of the players who left who would have been playing in our next premiership? and how many would have contributed to the culture change required to scale that mountain. He recruited several players with premiership experience (Dawes and Byrnes) and all new recruits are recognised for their professional approach to training. etc... That, three matches into his second season in charge, the miopic scapegoat supporters are calling for his head only highlights how little they understand the issues the MFC faces in building a premiership team and club.

The one that directed Bad Taste, and Lord of The Rings.

He was really impressive in that interview, and he held his nerve for almost 10 minutes. Every time he was led to some negative point by another journo-[censored] he returned to talking about the first half. This bloke is a born leader and I can't wait to see his leadership attributes fully emerge. I also agree with point made about Neitz and Green - two players I loved. They were cringe-worthy in front of a camera. As for his form after half time, I had my eye on him a fair bit and his gut running, and defensive positioning was actually really good. On many occasions he had to leave his position to fill a hole left by another team mate who hadn't got into position early enough, or hadn't run at all. On 2 occasion N Jones was the culprit (probably due to a huge 2nd half tag). Watch this space: a great year from Trenners in 2013 coming up.

I gotta say, I think Dean Terlich will play 200 games for the MFC and be a really great player for us. He's one, along with Jones and Viney. Who have really excited me.

how superior of you! I don't think anyone is suggesting sacking Neeld would "magically solve all the problems." What I think is, if the orchestra cannot play together, and the conductor says he has no idea why, and he's had a go at changing the personnel, but still they cannot do the basics together, then persevering with the embarrassment of dreadful gigs is neither sensible nor economically viable, and the conductor clearly isn't able to fix things. You need to look for a different conductor who has different ideas, and who can try something different, to get everyone in tune and playing together. Neeld appears to me to have his eyes fixed too far above the basics, and is imposing a repertoire that does not suit these players. He also belittles them - a bit like the way you have sneered at his detractors. Not calculated to win anyone around - that'd be right, wouldn't it? The fact is, things like tackling, shepherding and running to make a lead - these are not superstar acts. They are not failings due to the players lacking talent. You and I could have a go at those things. If the coach cannot get those things happening, for whatever reason, he is not able to do his job. How long it will take to repair the mess - who knows? The question at the moment is, do we have any reason to believe Neeld is going to be able to do it? If not, based on the evidence, then the second question to ask is, how long can we afford to run the place down this way? Because these thrashings are destructive and corrosive; left for long enough, they must end up terminal. I can't see Neeld making progress on the basics, or on the big picture (game-plan). No identifiable good results. I can see disorganised and demoralised players, trying to hold on, endlessly reiterating how much they are behind Neeldy (like all last year's talk about "buying in"), but not keeping their heads up. Lots of inarguable evidence there - the whole football world is beginning to feel awkward about Melbourne. I'm not supposing anything magic is going to happen, no matter what we do. But I really would like what is happening now to stop. I don't think we can justify letting it continue.

Mate, you've been a member of this forum for three years now, have I ever struck you as a torch-bearer before? I've spent half my Demonland life deriding posters who go off half cocked about anything. Sometimes you've got to recognise though when the people who are pissed off might actually have a point. It also shits me a bit that I spend a few minutes of my life trying to articulate a point and you respond with a patronising meme. Go jump in the lake.

Hey Stuie...we don't eat our own, they lie deceive and treat us all as fools. I say they eat themselves.

These are the things that have gone to poo that could have been influenced by the board Tanking coming up in the manner in which it did; this happened because we had the wrong mix of people in our footy department 186 Sacking Dean Bailey over the phone EnergyWatch Sacking Cam Schwab, then extending his contract for another 3 years(!), then sacking him for some fluff reason (right course of action, but years too late and for the wrong reasons). Hiring Mark Neeld on the say-so of Garry Lyon, on the say-so of Mick Malthouse This latest epic Dank disaster I excuse them for the Jurrah and racism disasters. The rest happened under their direct line of influence. So what that they're not the ones pulling on the jumper or coaching the side or whatever? They're the highest level of management at the club. They are charged with making sure the right people are in the right senior management position. Hardly a thing has gone right under their watch, I can't understand why you can't see that they are responsible. They are the the highest level of management at the club - they must take responsibility! The thought of this group being the group charged with getting us out of this endless marsh of faeces terrifies me.

Its making it difficult to continue to give 100% support week after week

This is why I love Cam Mooney. Here's the preview he gave on League Teams - some constructive critique on Watts rather than FIXATING upon the fact he didn't play last week as 90% of the gallery seem to have done, and in place of wisecracks and cheap shots, some actual positivity from last week: "It's great to see Jack Watts back in and I hope if he's going to play centre half-back or down back, play on a man. I hope the club just makes him play on a man. Don't worry about trying to get him to play spare man. Look, it's very hard to try and organise to get a spare man down there, especially when you've got a very inexperienced backline, so just don't worry about playing games. Just make this guy play on someone. He is extremely athletic, extremely quick, he can beat opponents one on one so make him play on an opponent. There's not too many positives down there right now but Nathan Jones, as usual, 28 possessions again last week, he's just an outstanding individual for that football club. Viney, again, 17 possessions, what a superstar he's going to be. And it was good to see Colin Sylvia, a couple of goals and had 20 possessions, after we gave him a little whack a couple of weeks ago, finally getting involved and showing some leadership so that is a great thing for the Melbourne Footy Club." I may not share his confidence about Watts' ability to beat an opponent one on one (and in fact he's had a direct opponent more often than Mooney realises I think), but boy is it refreshing to hear someone look at the positives to build upon, no matter how small.

Until I hear evidence that we gave players banned substances, lets not jump to conclusions. We have done nothing wrong if the substances aren't illegal. I've had some of these treatments done on my knee. They are common place and totally non invasive.

This might be the last straw for me as a supporter. The club is doing everything it can to betray the trust and loyalty of the people that have propped it up for years. We deserve the right to respond, but why the f*#k did we say we've had no involvement when we clearly did? I'm beyond furious.

Anyone on Demonland who's still here after three losses with an average losing margin of 107 points still cares. It's ok mate, we're here too and as much as we want to protect ourselves from more hurt by pretending we don't care, the truth is, we still do and that's why we keep fronting up. I'm starting to adopt a Papillon-like attitude. Which would make the MFC my Island Prison.

For the love of all that is red and blue, please just [censored] kill us now. What more could go wrong for this club? We take supplements and get accused of tanking simultaneously. What did they inject us with? Radioactive poison???!

A number of 'landers were calling for Cameron Ling a while back. Would cost us, but I think he'd be far better than Royal..

Kent in for Toumpas next week... Lock it in Eddie.

Great to hear but Max doesn't have to be a cult hero ... just a good hardworking player who rises to the top of the tree among AFL ruckmen. It would make a big difference to our club if we could finally get one of our young blokes to fulfil their promise. [PROUD SPONSOR]

With any luck he has never met Garry Lyon.

Is this the cigarettes man, the man who makes suits or the AFL man?

I would take his record of 2005 to 2009... 75 wins and 34 losses. Of all the promise we have at the Dees we have faith in Craig because he has actually done something.

Ok, self belief comes from within the player himself. Yep - thing is, they all had it... I say self belief can be destroyed by others, and this is what I suspect has been going on at Melbourne for some time. Look at the loss of self belief in grown-up victims of child sex abuse. And please don't trash this board by swooping in triumphantly declaring "he calls Neeld a pedophile!" - I don't. I use the extreme example to establish the connection between abuse or long-term denigration and a loss of self belief, and simply say that the loss of self belief in our players since the 2011 (2010?) Sydney game, or after half time last Saturday, may well be because they have been in effect being undermined for some time. Abuse can erode self belief. Here is my speculative reconstruction, in an attempt to fit the visible with the scraps of explanation that can be gleaned at present: We know that the interfering Schwab and coach Bailey were diametrically opposed to each other over something to do with the players' performances. Bailey no doubt was too nice to the players - and Schwab had some very different ideas to Bailey. The players were pretty resentful of Schwab's interference and went out on a limb criticising (when asked), only to find themselves stranded out there. The 186 loss ensued, costing Bailey his job. Why were the players so pathetic that day against Geelong? I suspect the real issue undermining the players' focus that day was to do with the way they had exposed themselves to risk by speaking up when asked just a few days before. The timing is too suggestive to ignore. So what exactly was it that Schwab was doing or saying to them? The question in my mind is whether Schwab was making comments designed to push the players towards training properly and showing accountability on match day, or whether he was making personal comments about their characters (along the lines of a lot of the frustration aired on this forum), which came across to the players as undermining negativity directed in a personal way at them. If the latter, Schwab was directing at the players what he really meant to direct at the coach - was using the players to get at the coach, and it would be seriously undermining. And I suspect this must have been what was going on - I doubt that senior players like Brad Green would have shirked a proper training regime, or imagined that they could "dob in" (when asked) a CEO insisting they should develop proper fitness levels and show accountability on match-day. But, after the players spoke, the scale of the political forces at work sunk in with every day of silence about what they had said. What could they have been expected to believe about what they had done when they spoke up? If this reconstruction is anything like what did happen, then Neeld in effect picked up where Schwab left off. With Schwab removed from interfering, Neeld came in with his sterner approach to coaching the team (necessary for them to be competitive, no question), but in doing so he took on already fearful players and simply replaced the undermining effect of Schwab with the undermining effect of Neeld. Special circumstances, post-186, and requiring careful handling. Only that Neeld with admirable determination set about the rebuild, relying on all he had ever learned in other places - none of which had ever had the sort of problems Melbourne had when he arrived. Perhaps the tone of voice he used, and the up-front personal remarks he made to the media - and presumably in private too - hit on raw nerves. He spent months chatting with Brad Green about his impending retirement. It seems likely to me that the players recognised that Neeld and Schwab were on a wave-length - especially when Neeld was so publicly disrespectful of Bailey, and as time went on the Schwab-dobbing players one by one steadily disappeared. Today, the players appear scared... "lacking self belief"! Maybe from their point of view they still are in a war zone, with everyone outside pretending it isn't so: maybe what is needed above all else is for them to be convinced that they are on "our" side. Surely in the coach v CEO war, with the club swinging in its support now to one side, now the other, and dragging the players into it, the players must have wondered what their role was meant to be. At the end of last year, I suggested a big "clean-out" would be far too destructive of player morale. You could dispute the connection I claimed, but you could hardly doubt the subsequent collapse of morale. Yelling at the players now, and threatening more player sackings ASAP, or demanded they grow up and fix their self belief - I wonder if that isn't just reprising the preparation for that Geelong game...

It was probably accidental, although posters on here cry for them to be tougher, assume training was at high intensity, it was also wet, so maybe one or other slipped.....jesus some of the posts on this board really begin to remind me of the Twilight Zone

Not Dunn. As we've been told many times, the ultimate responsibility for these things rests with the CEO. Peter Jackson should be sent packing!

he should be the permnent CEO, not interim I hope he stays long term, hes just what we need, a guy with AFL experoience , fresh set of eyes, runs on the board.. and best of all he doesnt have the stench of MFC attached to him at all

Looks like an AFL-assisted decision.

So what's the deal with Jack Trengove, Jack Grimes, Mitch Clark, Nathan Jones, Matt Jones, Rohan Bail, Jeremy Howe and all the others whose self-confidence seems fine. Maybe they're the only ones who have actually got the right mindset to succeed under the guidance of a real AFL coach. The other guys have been mollycoddled for so long that their ability to respond to criticism and instruction has been (perhaps irrevocably) destroyed. Self-confidence is great, but people who don't take criticism are actually not confident people. They only give the illusion of confidence until such time as their delusions are broken. This is what I think has happened to a few of our players.

. II absolutely agree. And 2 more disasters as bad as R1 have proven your point. A couple of other points.I have had the opportunity to speak informally with several players. The suggestion that they are not trying is absurd. They are perplexed, confused, surprised how far off the pace they are but they are trying as hard as they can. Incidentally in our discussions there was no hint of disloyalty to Neeld. Secondly there is an increasing realization that the team is much worse than under Bailey. Why have the attacking aspects of the Bailey gameplan been lost? The distinctive feature--and perhaps the only positive-- is that within the ranks there is an experienced, successful coach in Neil Craig. Until his last year at Adelaide he was extremely successful. I believe he has said he won't coach. I would move heaven and earth to get him to--personally I would offer him until the end of 2014. The decision to appoint Neeld was not bad or stupid. Recriminations are of no use. But occasionally an appointment doesn't work. Look at TIm Watson at St K. But I now believe that with our list we need someone who doesn't need to prove himself, who doesn't need to suggest that the list he inherited was bad (although I like Neeld personally I'm disgusted at his insinuation that the previous admin was/is responsible for the club's plight--it isn't) and who can exert a mature influence over a list which can play. When much less experienced it won significant games. We have 18 rounds to go after this week. Make the move now. It's sad but must happen

Yeah, another untried coach. Great strategy.

as i said in another thread.. Scully is averaging 15 disposals, 5 of which are clangers which has him equal 3rd for the most clangers in the competition. His ave supercoach score ranks him 17th on the GWS list. Great return on 50K a match.