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Watts needs confidence. If we were to give up on players because of a lack of confidence we would strike a line through half the list. We persevere, not because of where he was picked, but because of the person he is and the player he could be. And, I responded to this thread because a few MFC fans think like this, not because of Barrett. Please don't read Damian Barrett. He likes easy kills and we are surrounded by blood in the water. Don't click the link.

He has to write about something controversial, so he's scraping the barrel for a story and adding more petrol on Melbourne and it's situation. Melbourne needs to....

No, you didn't articulate the strategy at all, you articulated a broad aim which is the same for all football clubs at all levels. If that is the level of our club's strategy no wonder we're stuffed. I'm not surprised though, you've offered nothing more than sycophantic support for the club and sniping anyone who dares offer any criticism so it doesn't surprise me that you've got no clue. The membership definitely did not grow last year, it fell from 36,937 in 2011 to 35,345 in 2012 and is on track to fall further this year. If you can't get soemthing as basic as those raw figures correct no wonder you're incapable of offering anything of substance on more difficult issues. You are a volunteer who works the phones, you've got no greater insight into this than anyone else on the board despite your claims. "The guy" you speak of may have an impeccable record which is in the Public Domain - so have others who have come before. I'm not [censored] on it, just being cynical that appointing one board member is going to turn the ship around. In case you haven't noticed it takes hard work to be successful in footy not just a messiah to come and save the club. Wow, we were competitive for a half - in case you haven't noticed a game is made up of four quarters. I'm glad you're happy we can be competitive for half a game out of 3 games but some of us have higher expectations. The finances have been reported on - the club expects to lose money this year and would have its arse hanging out if not for donations and handouts. So in summary you've got NFI so don't waste your time dribbling utter rubbish because the vast majority of supporters on here see through your apologies for failure. You think you're supporting the club but you're not, you're supporting failure which is harmful in the extreme.

Step one is to appoint a new CEO, nothing further should happen until then. It is the most important appointment for this club going forward and I would hope the AFL are actively involved in the appointment to the level of yes or no. I don't trust our current board to make the right choice.

can't wait til round 3 next year when posters are saying hogan is a dud and we should have picked (insert whatever rookie in the comp is playing well)

If Home and Away paid twice as much as Tarantino, Leonardo Di Caprio would be doing a bedroom scene with Alf Stewart.

Listen, bottom line all of us here support the club and want it to succeed. I don't think we should be sacking Neeld, especially not this early I the season, and think we need to give him time to develop his team but by the same token I can completely understand those who say we have gone backwards under him and that he needs to go. It's not cut and dry and I can see pros and cons for both sides of the argument. I did think Schwab had to go and am borderline on McLardy as well though am thinking he's just no up to it. What I don't get though is those who attack other supporters for being frustrated, angry and cynical that things will turn especially considering we've heard all this before and there is no evidence in the last 25 games to say we're on the right track. Minimal evidence of game plan, minimal evidence of competitiveness or the players willing to play for the coach. No ones suggesting we should be top 4 or even top 8 this year but I don't think it's too much to say we should t be losing by ~100 points every week. As for the strategy, I asked you about that as you said you had discussed it with people at the club who had explained it to you and you had faith in it - that being the case I asked you to articulate it. How can you have faith in something if you can't explain it you may as well go join those religious nuts every weekend instead of the footy nuts at the G.

why aren't these pieces being written about scully, who is only a year behind Watts and on double the salary? or Matthew Kreuzer for that matter? in the week before Round 1 Robbo said Watts would be an all-Australian backman this year - admittedly it was his 'big call' for the year on SEN but he was by no means laughed at making the suggestion. Luke Hodge - No 1 draft pick in 2001 - got his first and only All Australian selection in 2008. Watts hasnt started well but he's played 2 games in a woeful side. he certainly isnt alone. how old is Watts again? i can deal with Petterd holding down a half back flank in the undefeated tigers (sort of), but if we lose the 22 year old Watts at the end of this year it will be a terrible, terrible error.

First we cop it for letting go the likes of Moloney,Rivers, Petterd etc,and now they suggest we get rid of Watts too? Any opportunity to sink the boots into a club when they are down is what the gutter journos of this town are offering. Absolute trash

"Maybe it can be traced back to his very first game in the AFL, round 11 2009. Having quarantined Watts from the pressures of the big-time for the first half of the season, Melbourne officials abandoned the cotton-wool approach and, putting its own public relations requirements ahead of Watts, unveiled him in front of 61,000 spectators in the Queen¹s Birthday game against Collingwood." He's not wrong about that. That entire thing was embarrassing for the club and Watts. They actually made an announcement as the team ran out: "Ladies and gentlement, No.1 draft pick Jack Watts, and the Melbourne Football Club." God awful.

Where did he place Tambling when he revised that draft?

You can see at 1:16 that there is absolutely nothing wrong with that handball.

cannot imagine it it would be like Leonardo Di Caprio turning down Quentin Tarantino to star in a season of 'Home and Away'

What a joke. Lets say this about every single player that may find it easier to play in a top side..... I want him to stay, a coach show faith in him, provide the structures to draw on the attributes which he possesses that are AFL standard (speed, decision making, kicking skills)

Barrett is an A grade [censored]. It's time for Watts to pull his finger out, but he has a couple more years before we give him the boot I'd say. Still only 22 and has shown bits, just has to put something together.

neeld , please put watts on the wing and leave him there for a couple of months. perhaps rotate him in the forward pocket . he could be a great link man out of defence. the match committee are making decisions without foresight. very reactionary. its killing us. now they are stuck with what to do with him as they feel they need to make a statement but a game against gws is the best opportunity for someone like watts to get some confidence.

need a midfield

Not criticising your post C&B, just adding. Our club never talks about winning games. From the top down. It's not demanded therefore there are no expectations. The whole club including all the players, coaching staff, administration and Board talk about everything else other than winning. According to the lot of them, winning is a bi-product of structures, systems, key performance indicators, processes, fitness levels and the rest of the utter garbage and bs they throw our way. Many supporters lap it up but it's all spin. Total spin. Apart from the Board members, the rest of them are getting exceptionally well paid for just being there. There is no accountability because not enough of our supporters demand wins.Too many of us believe their spin. It's been going on since the appointment of Bailey. Perhaps even earlier.

For those of you making snide remarks I'd just like to point out that the one sporting club in Melbourne that you'd want to be listening to in regards to their attitude towards culture and professionalism it would the world champion Melbourne Storm.

I think Neeld knows exactly where we were at and where we are at, it's us fans that are not prepared to listen. Compare the Demons with the Hawks. Captains Hodge (205 games, 144 goals, Norm smith medal (2008), All-Australian (2005, 2008), Premiership (2008), top 3 in club best and fairest (2005 - 2008) Grimes + Trengove (56+61=117 games (combined), 5 + 31=36 goals (combined), both NAB AFL Rising Star nominee,... That is Hodge has played 88 more games than Grime and Trenners COMBINED, and kicked 108 more gaols than both of them, etc... And as Mark Neeld recently said Grimes and Trenners are the "best leaders we have at the club at the moment". Best players On weekend Hawthorn - Hodge (205 games/144 goals), Franklin (164/531), Shiels (67/19), Birchall (155,19), Stratton (55,1), Gibson (127,2), Roughead (162, 300), Burgoyne (224,209) = Average for Hawks best is 144 games and 153 goals per player, 8 players in best. Melbourne - N Jones (138/69), M Jones (3/0), Grimes (56/5), Sylvia (141/122)= Average for Demons best is 84 games and 49 goals per player, 4 players in best. That is, the best for Hawthorn averaged 60 more games than our best, and 104 goals on average more. They had 1 player under 100 game in their 8 best, we had 2 under 100 games including our captian and a player with 3 games experience. Summary Neeld has coached these men for 25 AFL games with a woefully underdeveloped list relative to the teams he is charged with performing against. take Average player age or Average player games or top 50 players awards, etc... and on all these metrics we were behind the average in the AFL PRIOR to Mark's arrival. To assume a miracle surge is to fundamentally ignore the realities of the competition we are in.

Let me open with this. I have always admired Hird, a great player, decent human being and wished we had such a champion at our club. My gut instinct tells me the Essendon Football Club tried to be cutting edge with all this supplement stuff, however my gut instinct also tells me that The Essendon falls within the Too Big To Fail scenario. The Evans family are powerful in AFL circles, so is the Hird family. The current AFL CEO was appointed by the AFL Commission - Evans Snr was on the Commission. Current AFL Commissioner Kelty is very close to Hird and Evans and gave counsel to Hird in recent days. My gut instinct tells me a deal has been done and the EFC will get a slap over the wrist. Hird is a demigod in AFL circles and nothing will happen to him and he knows this. Forgive me for been a tad cynical about all this. Hird and the EFC are not bigger than the game itself but the outcome will show the opposite. Finally I reckon I am not the only one who thinks that this EFC group of players are surprising many with their amazing fitness levels over the past 2 years. Make what you will of that. I smell rats everywhere at this club.

I am obviously a total masochist because I sat down and painstakingly went through the third quarter of last week and analysed it. Why did I do such a thing? Because I needed to clarify in my mind exactly what went wrong. Of particular interest was how much effort was being applied and skill errors. LM (loose man) 0:20 - Ineffective tap Jamar, JV concedes free, ball streamed straight out of the middle with no resistance via LM Shuey (Trengove's man) and ends up OOB in pocket. Garland lucky not have gifted a free. 01:00 JV concedes head high tackle (his second in a minute) Hams kicks excellent goal from boundary ("worst possible start" Dunstall) 02:15 Easy clearance from bounce by Masten, LM in Hams (Grimes was too loose), TM out of position on Darling, mark... hits post. 03:40 WC mark on wing from pitiful kick-out play, three LM for WC get it to CHF, long bomb, easy mark then goal Sinclair (Sellar nowhere near it) 05:35 Absurd free aganist Clark in the middle, then his man was let off after being caught playing on. Long bomb, Le Cars gets crumbs, hands to Masten, snap goal. 3 goals in 5 minutes. 06:40 MJ ineffective tap, WC clear, work to the goalsquare, Garland concedes free to Kennedy, goal. Crowd upset, it was just there. 09:05 Jones free kick completely blind bomb easily rebounded.. good passage by us to CS, nobody leads for him in50, Jamar was supposed to be the target and didn't bother, he bombs, uncontested mark WC. 10:30 Jetta blatantly denied free kick. 11:00 Great mark in defence Howe, starts good passage, with Davey hittng Jetta in50 but it pops straight out of his hands 11:30 Garland/Terlich both go up against 1 opponent, ends up Eagles ball, we scrounge it back, tapscott drops a pass short i50 to CS, Byrnes gets it, pathetic shot on goal OTF, should have done something else, panicked a bit 13:00 Le Cras too good, kicks to square, Garland again easily outmarked, goal. 14:00 Pederson in ruck, allows easy Cox-Priddis-Masten clearance straight to CHF, sinclair kicks awesome snap goal. 15:30 dees centre clearance, Sylvia bomb to 30m out hotspot, Clark outnumbered, eagles clear to wing, we get it back in, clark again outnumbered, ends up gathering it loose and having a shot which misses. 16:10 eagles kickout marked uncontested 65 metres out 16:40 great passage, Davey-Trengove-Tapscott nice bomb goal, almost no celebration whatsoever 18:00 Kerr-Shuey clearance too easy, shuey misses 18:30 another poor kickout, ends up being turned over by Evans, free against Pedo. Garland gives away another free, doesnt matter Cox goal (Frawley's man) 20:50 Jetta misses mark, MJones turnover 21:30 Darling mark, 14 blokes touched it, McDonald's man. Goal. Talk about Masten coming of age, this is the bloke that went a pick before Morton WTF is wrong with our development 22:50 big thump to Jamar but again to no advantage.. again downfield MJ taps directly to Priddis, ball bombed to square McDonald's man Darling crumbs off the pack easy goal 24:50 MJones fumble, bomb from Evans to nobody in50 25:50 Sellar pathetic at ruck, ends up with Kennedy, Garland left him free like a first year player, goal 27:10 Byrnes turnover shocking 28:00 clark off the ball free, cost us a probable goal 28:40 Sinclair again easy uncontested mark 20:00 aimless bomb out of back pocket JV, eagles win contested ball, another mark i50 Grimes too loose, goal 30:30 MJ to Priddis again 31:00 Tapscott nothing kick 31:30 frees to Clark and Jetta not paid.. clark gives away stupid free seconds before the bell

Would you consider a trade for an "Air Jurrah" t-shirt ?

Isnt that what Neeld did when he got to the club?! Tore the boys out of a bubble bath in threw them into an ice bath? If he had slowly added some ice to the bubble bath we might have had a better 2012. Moloney & Rivers might still be at the club and amougnst our better players.... We dont need a hard arse comando type, we need a COACH!

Not trying to be smart, but what the hell is his position? He can't play forward, and he isn't accountable as a backman. He gets lost on flanks and hasn't the presence to be spine player. So what is he? An expensive linkman that goes to pieces if tagged? I put it out there that Watts is out of confidence because he's out of his depth in the AFL. He just isn't cut out for it because he hasn't got it inside to handle the pressure it brings. Shame, and God knows I backed his first few years, but it is what it is and no amount of polish is going to change that.

Schwabby had a beef with The Age ever since his father died and the circumstances of his death were revealed by none other than Caro . Her fellow hacks, Flanagan aside ,have made it their personal task to destroy him due to his hatred of Caro. It is true the CS probably had too much say in the football dept. when times were tough with Jimmy . Whiteboard Wednesdays was probably a mistake in hindsight but I liked the insight I garnered from it ,despite the fact that it was available for anyone to see. There is lingering hatred of us by The Age but we keep feeding them the ammo to shoot us with . There is no way to stop their crap ,except by winning. They will forever be coming up with ideas that we should explore until things improve on field. may I say that the best thing that has come of this internet forum(since I have been here) has been the turnout at training last week . It took me back to '87 when a over a thousand turned up to the Junction to watch us train before each final. Where there is life ,there is hope. Stay strong Dees-forget the noise.

Hi all. Long time reader, first time poster. That free Jack Viney gave away at the 1:00 minute mark against Hams was classic West Coast ducking of the head. I should know, I was 5 metres away. I was close enough to see the smirk on Hams face. I am a Melbourne FC gold member & for what it's worth I have never seen us in as bad a situation as we are now. That 3rd quarter fade out was unacceptable. But I'll keep the faith cause I have nothing else. I feel for Viney, Toumpas & Hogan. I hope we don't screw their careers.

err...... that's not one word.

I think that people like Macca (and myself) don't expect to see us stone cold last two seasons in. There is one thing worse than being despised,and that is being pitied. Melbourne is being pitied, nobody is afraid of us anymore. We're a toothless tiger, a demon with fire or a trident.

No one will have a go at the AFL pin up boy. The AFL have invested alot in him to get him to GWS - not a surprise no one wants to call him out on his failures as it would just be another failed AFL marketing move (like Israel Folau)

"Watts is not blameless in this situation. He certainly hasn¹t enhanced his status in his short time in the game, and when AFL playing list expert Terry Wallace last year re-analysed the 2008 national draft, he rated Watts a mid-20s selection only." Well FMD. After 4 years Terry 're-analysed' the 2008 draft and places him mid twenties?? Revisionist clown.

If I was Jack Watts I'd of already told the club I want out. It's a disgrace what Neeld has done to Watts. The media was already using Watts as our poster boy for failure, then Neeld goes and subs him - then drops him! It's a disgrace, on top of that he has second gamer Terlich doing the kick outs. I won't feel one bit of pity for Mark Neeld when he is sacked.

What the hell are you talking about? I made no comment about finals and don't intend to. You're trying to side-track the issue it won't work. My original comments in this thread was about the club (from the top down) never talking about winning games. I stand by those comments.

Not sure what you've been watching, but so far I'm buggered if I have seen anything over the past 18 months that suggests we are on the right track. I give Neeld credit for removing some of the cancers that were on our list, but at this stage, the cons are far outweighing the pros. Sure, some posters on here are over the top, but they are passionate. It's the ones that want to hold every person of the Club accountable for their actions that I support. For me, the days of getting juiced up over how well our preseason was, who is flying on the track, how many PBs we broke, etc etc, are over. I believe what they are saying, put I look forward to the 2 hours every weekend to provide evidence that I should believe them. After 3 rounds, I am seeing no evidence to suggest that they should be trusted. I just hope that what they tell the likes of McLardy is closer to the truth than what they tell us. I have a feeling the only track you are on at the moment is that of the peace train. Toot toot.

Absolute nothing post, yet you complain about others contributing nothiing. I'd like to know what gives you the confidence to beleive that we are on the right track. At this stage, I think you are putting blind faith in a number of people at the club. But again, that's your decision. I have long said that Neeld has the potential of being the next Melbourne premiership coach, or the last coach of the Melbourne FC, I just didn't know which way it would go, but hoped like hell that it was the former. In terms of me playing AFL, no, I haven't played in the top league. I have played at an elite level in other sports, and I can assure you, if you can get your sh!t sprted personally and know you are doing everything possible to get the best out of yourself, then your voice will be respected by many. If you sit back and whinge about how crap it is but aren't doing your bit, your opinion will not be respected, and so it shouldn't. This could mean that if a poster on here has been a member for more years than they can remember, and attend every game that they can, then they have every right to speak up. As for the membership calls, I live in Queensland. I'm satisfied with the set that I've grown, and by not turning up tonight won't make them shrink in any way.

We have 100 fitness staff and coaches. Why aren't they there directing things?? Reminds me of a story about our weights training a couple of years ago. Said that the Dee players had no system or supervision but simply wandered in, lifted a few light weights, had a chat and left. No professionalism. Doesn't sound like much has changed.

How come we're the only club that talks about 3 pre-seasons to get fit? Has it crossed people's minds that these people are protecting their own interests. It's called an excuse in advance. In other words, these people are all earning a truckload of money out of football and they cannot ever be seen as failures. Otherwise the money might dry up. They could easily be protecting their own careers. So throw it out there that it's going to take 3 pre-seasons to get these players 'AFL' ready and if the team gets smashed, you've already got the excuse laid out. An extension of this ridiculous notion is that any 18 year will only be able to be 'AFL ready' in his 3rd season of footy. Viney looks ready to go. Wines as well. It's been said that we used last years 'season proper' as another pre-season. Including the 2 actual pre-seasons, that makes 3. So why do we look so tired and unfit? I don't buy it. It's just more spin and more bs. .

For starters, it's not 3 years, it's 3 pre-seasons which isn't quite the same thing. Secondly, it's not about getting fit, it's about getting to the extremes of fitness needed these days to play professional AFL footy. Which takes time, because there's only so much loading the body can take without injuries.

People just don't get it, do they? If the Swans are in the spa, then it's because they've been bloody well told to be there and have earned a laugh. They're coming off a win, they're Premiers - they're respected and well drilled. Melbourne are not Sydney. Melbourne are a joke. If you dismiss enough individual incidents like this, you'll stop seeing the culture problem that is literally killing this footy club. The fact that the players are sitting there laughing after 3 100~ point losses in a row is disgraceful. They are an absolute laughing stock, and they're not even willing to put in the hard yards to actually get some respect back.

I remember the Cats doing the same thing with Ottens. We are saving him for our run to the finals

If only we could fast forward to R1 2014 Clark (26yo, 200cm, 103kg), Hogan (19yo, 195cm, 100kg) and Dawes (25yo, 193cm, 105kgs) in attack with Gawn (22yo, 208cm, 111kg) resting forward. Clark and Hogan are both as comfortable in the midfield as they are in the goalsquare and could swittch between those roles ie Full Forward and High Centre Half Forward. There are not many teams that have 2 key defenders who are comfortable in the goal square and in the midfield. Dawes' role would be to stay inside 50 and contest, mark a few and bring the rest to ground and lock it in. 3 talls may seem top heavy but Clark and Hogan are exceptionally athletic for key forwards. Hogan will have had his rookie pre season plus one more and a full season in the VFL. That my fellow Dees fans looks like the makings of a darn good forward line and would be the envy of quite a few clubs. Hopefully we can see it in action this year minus Hogan.

The key point for me was Dermie saying the appointment of the two young captains had caused a division within the team. I know that is an opinion/speculation. It would be a predicatable reaction of senior players, when they see 20yos get the captaincy, to become disillusioned, lose confidence. Whoever made the decision to have 2 20yos as captains, should be fired. There is a reason it has never happened before, because it is stupid. I don't buy OX saying it can't be changed. I say it can. Make Nathan Jones the new captain, if need be, retain these kids as co-captains, otherwise, make them vice-captains.

Couldn't agree more I'm sick to death of KPI's and the associated crap, I want to win games not quarters or CP's etc. if you play well, guess what, you'll win the KPI's if you lose you don't. All this corporate crap only clouds the minds of impressionable young footballers and inhibits their natural ability. Let them play football and get some confidence then maybe we can implement a complicated game plan full of KPI's, or not.

We should bring him along on game day and use him as our runner. He can yell at players not putting in. I am sure they ll pay a bit of attention and want to avoid getting on this kids bad side.

Add it to the scroll of things wrong with the MFC.

Problem is, preception is reality. To put it another way, if you were undergoing performance counselling at work, would you be spending your time at work talking to your mates, cracking jokes and taking long lunches? No way, you would be putting your head down to get back up to scratch and out of the crosshairs. When you are 0-3 and losing by average of 100+ points, anything other than total dedication to make things right is perceived to be tomfoolery and not giving a [censored]. It might not be the case but I'm not sure our players are in a position to argue the case.

Our 3rd quarter percentage is 8.86.

Fark me. If we're going to give up on a player before he is even in his first proper contract, the club may as well fold now.

I'm happy to defer to Dave Misson's expertise when it comes to AFL player fitness. I expect many of the keyboard experts here couldn't even do 10 push ups.

1 season. 1.