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Here's an idea: keep our best players.

It is depressing, but it's not terminal. Some of our talent is being asked to do too much too early, but it will also give them a steely resolve when things turn, and they will. Not withstanding my signature, I have the utmost respect for Leigh Matthews and his experiences in footy. After 40 years in the game Matthews looks for two things in a player - talent and leadership. He believes if you can build a group of players with those two traits you will develop a club capable of winning premierships. I believe Trengove and Grimes both have these traits. It's been a difficult year for both, but they're fantastic young leaders of men who will only grow with experience. I also believe they have plenty of talent and will develop into fine players. The worst thing the club could do would be to hinder this development by removing them as captains. And they won't. If you hear Neeld and Craig at any club function one of the things they want to discuss in glowing terms is the leadership group they've assembled. With Frawley, Tom McDonald, Grimes, Clark, Watts, Jones, Trengove, Howe, Garland, Gysberts and a couple of others we have a stable young core of 25 and unders to build around. It's why this draft/trade period is so vital for the club. Toumpas has talent and is captain of SA, Viney has talent and leadership in spades, both he and Toumpas finished in the top 3 in the voting of the Ben Mitchell medal, a medal that Jack Grimes previously won. Talent and leadership. We need what Viney and Toumpas can bring to this club and I hope the recruiters keep Matthews' two key ingredients at the forefront of their mind when making these important decisions. I still don't want to pay overs for Viney, but he'll bring a lot more to the club than just his playing ability. I steadfastly believe that if we're able to land him and Toumpas it won't be too many years before we'll have the best leadership group in the land. And they'll have the requisite talent. Which is why I won't be up in arms every week after a loss. I've consigned this year to development and opportunities. By year's end we'll have more talent, leadership, another preseason under Misson, bigger bodies, maybe a Boak, or Caddy, and another year to get Neeld's way of playing footy ingrained. We won't play finals in 2013, but I expect to start seeing some tangible inroads to our future. In the meantime I'll comfortably digest threads like this and the wrist slitting of the Tonatopias of this world.

I gave Bailey 3 years without getting stuck into him, even though his sides only ran one way. The least I can do for Neeld is afford him some charity in his first year.

Of course Neeld should come under criticism but for mine there are too many limiting factors that he has not had enough control over at this time to effectively critique or lay the blame primarily at him. He did not draft the majority of the list. He did not ignore the defensive aspects of football for the last 5 years He did not leave mature players who are not up to it on the list for 6-8 years He did not develop a list with poor endurance and general conditioning We are coming from a long way back and his attempts at righting the above factors I think has been the right approach. The trading for Clark was a fantastic move, Taggert and Tynan both with limited view appear to be good mid range picks and Sellar as a cheap mature key defensive post has served well when played there. He has given the mature players no favouritism and has allowed the mature NQR's every opportunity to show what they have. I am sure most will be gone next year. By all reports the squad has been thrashed on the track maybe to the detriment of their actual performances and injury to improve their conditioning as quickly as possible in preparation for anoth bigger pre season next year. Neeld has not been perfect, our poor starts to games and a lack of moving to a plan B when in trouble is of concern however most find it hard to charge because of the other factors. I am sure the focus will move more firmly onto him next year when he has had 12 months to further influence these factors.

I don't believe that Sydney's list is choc full of talent, but they do have a superstar in Goodes, they do have an outside mid in AA form with 32 goals in Jetta, and they do have an engine room of contested ball winning mids in Kennedy, McVeigh, Jack, Hannebery and Jude Bolton. How do our mids stack up against theirs and what part of the ground are games won and lost ? Their 5 grunt midfielders average over 21 possessions a game, whereas we have one mid that averages over 21 possessions a game. And we don't have an express line breaker like Jetta, although that's Blease's challenge for next year. When we get our midfield right we'll start winning lots of games of football. I reckon we'll be a far better unit within two years, but comparing the output of the two clubs now shows a complete lack of understanding as to where we're at and where they're at. But at least you're good at something. I could mention their experienced leadership group and a coaching panel that's been in place for nearly a decade, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.

So what you're saying is we stuffed up in not getting Sheedy in 2007 but stuffed up again by canning Bailey last year because we won 8 games? Bailey was obviously a brilliant coach as evidenced by the fact that all of the other clubs (Freo, Saints, Adel, Dogs) who were looking for new coaches last year threw millions at him to get him at their clubs. Bailey was a dud breeding a generation of frontrunners at the club continuing on from Daniher before him. We now have a coach trying to implement some accountability, defensiveness and 21st century tactics and you are crying because he hasn't done it in his first few months at the club who has been a cellar dweller for 5 seasons? Your continual sniping at Neeld and the club is tiresome and pathetic. By all means hold them to account, they are not infallible, but don't be a fundamentalist about it.

No way would I want to use 4 and 12 on Boak. Total over-payment.

Trading is not some sort of card game. You only trade 'excess' footballers of value for others of better value or greater importance to you. I don't see an excess of fit ruckmen at the club. All I see is unmeasured potential (Martin, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick) who in fact don't get on the park very often. Trading away Jamar now would be folly.

Couldn't disagree more. Clark is not a ruckman. He's a full forward. If his performances in the forward line this year didn't prove that to you, I don't know what will. We need him playing 100% of his game time at FF. Jamar was dominating in the ruck in the first quarter yesterday. When we lost him, and Martin had to ruck, Griffin got on top and their midfield began to overpower ours. No coincidence there.

It may be better for us all to think of this year as one long pre-season, because that's how it's being used by Neeld and his staff. New gameplans, structures etc have already been talked about here a lot, but he's also giving games to those he wants/needs to see enough of to determine their future a little more than those he sees as developing talents. We're also working on "external" things like fitness, recovery, culture etc at the same time, so our players have a mouthful at the moment and it'll take a while for them to chew it all up and digest it. This is not to say this year doesn't hurt for us supporters, I'm thoroughly depressed, but it's an essential process and you could almost think of it as we're getting a head start on the rest of the comp for next year. So in saying all that, how about we change the Game Day and Post Match threads to Training Report threads.....

We all need to collectively take a deep breath. Neeld is not playing to lose, but he is certainly not playing to 'win at all costs' either. He is sorting the wheat from the chaff at the moment and to do that you have to make strategic decisions that may not have the best outcome/s on game day. This is the hard road that will eventually (hopefully) be the basis of a team that will not just challenge for the finals but the ultimate piece of silverware that we all desire. The question needs to be asked - Do you want the club to seriously challenge for the flag? Or do you want a middling team that has no chance for the ultimate prize? I'll take the first option every time thanks! Scrutinise Neeld & Co. all you like but please wait until at least next year to do it.

That list of players tells me that another manic pre season, combined with canny trading and a bumper draft, will see us go very close to playing finals next year. No point being upset about losing games this year. I couldn't give 2 shits whether we finish 10th or 18th. Its about putting the building blocks in place. The slab's down and the walls are coming up. Come late next year we'll be at lock up stage, ready for the fit out. Then its on.

Has copped a lot of unfair criticism - fantastic set shot to win the game after the siren. Richmond... Shows the real danger of selling home games.

when is demonology back..

Speaking of overpriced footballers Scully and Folau had 21 possessions between them (contracts this year $2m Scully and $1.5m Folau) with Scully getting 16 and Foolau the grand total of 5, well done.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/geelong-coach-chris-scott-heads-to-adelaide-to-speak-to-travis-boak/story-e6frf9jf-1226426461562 Geelong pulling out the big guns to convince Boak. Doesn't sound like the decision has been made, to me. But you'd think a move like this means it's not far off. In any case, I have reconsidered my position and I don't think Boak is worth any more than our mid-compo pick. After watching him again this weekend and listening to some expert's opinions, I think he's a B+ at best, and potentially an A, but far from a certainty.

Mitch Clark is capable of kicking 80+ goals each year if he's left at FF. I don't care who plays 2nd ruck, but leave Mitch in the square.

Horrible suggestion. We are still filthy over Scully and demand loyalty from our players yet we don't show the same the other way. Jamar has shown loyalty by signing and is still the number one ruck yet because of his age, you want him traded. Every MFC player will want out through Free Agency with that plan. I would trade Stef Martin before Jamar. In fact, If we could get a good deal on Martin, i would trade Martin.

Last year we drew with sydney and defeated a [censored] poor Brisbane, a first year club in GC, A club that wouldn't play for their coach (Adelaide),the bombers as they are our [censored], The tigers who were our equal,Port adelaide who were being touted as the worst team since Fitzroy and Freo who were ravaged with injuries. Our wins were over rated. We finished 13th only above Adelaide who sacked their coach a Brisbane team who tried to steal a flag and backfired with Mature players and Fevola issues. Port who were awful and a first year team. Wow what a season. We were flat track bullies against the dud sides any sides who were even with us in talent Tigers,bulldogs and North we struggled against. We were going no where fast. 2011 had many more bad teams then 2012 has.

Careful DeeMfc, you're making too much sense. And as far as Tonatopia and Hardnut go, you're wasting your breath. These two have had an anti-Neeld agenda from day one for whatever reason. There was always going to be some collateral damage with some supporters not prepared to stomach the hard measures required to overhaul our front-running playing style and stinking club culture. That these types think it's all just going to happen at the click of Dorothy's heels only shows how little footy acumen they have.

Unduly rough contact? Intentional? Contact severe? Just shoot the dog.

Please play Jake Spencer again this week.

Fitness in this context = AFL standard or better. However, it seems when Misson took over the reigns at the MFC, we were less than AFL standard. Notwithstanding that I spoke to John Quinn (Head of Sports Science at GWS) recently at a corporate function and that he confirmed the following view in spades, I'll provide another account for stating this view. I injured my hip flexor earlier this year. A mate referred me to a leading sports physio in Sydney to treat it (he also does the physio for several rugby clubs in Sydney), but takes fee paying individuals as well (ie, me). I asked him whether he knew Dave Misson. He said 'of course, everyone in the industry does'. I then asked him whether he's any good. His response - 'yep, he's one of the best. I don't actually know him very well, but he's got an enormous reputation.' I then asked, 'how long before he gets the Dees up to elite AFL fitness?' His response: 'Probably about 3 pre-seasons - and, that said, he won't even try to rebuild the senior players. It's too late for them - he'll just try to tweak them. Whereas for the younger players, he'll invest the time - BUT it will take a lot of time and patience too. There are no miracles in this space - it's all hard work, and I understand they were a fair way off the pace - so, for them, it'll take even longer. First of all, they need to catch up to the other clubs - all of which put enormous energy into this area as well - but, to then surpass them - well, that's not easy because they also have elite regimes and elite athletes, and they're all going like a bull at a gate on this stuff. So it's not easy at all. I'm confident you'll be happy with the results in a FEW years from now though'. My take out - most lay people don't get this area - it's simply too scientific. They simply want instant results, and, if those results are not there instantly, the supporters get frustrated. BUT I strongly suspect the physio's analysis above is correct. 100% correct. This stuff takes time. And the new regime hasn't had the requisite time just yet. To suggest otherwise is plainly stupid. But then again, the dominant majority at the time also thought Galileo was wrong.

A bigger drafting blunder than Tambling, Melbourne should be extremely grateful for the compensation we received.

Really cant understand the hubris We've amassed 2 wins this year hell of a lot to make scully jealous for sure.

6 years.

All Australian as little as 2 years back who I think might even fall under the veterans list next year. Shouldn't be anywhere near the trade table.

Actually we played our best football when Jamar was in the Ruck and Martin up forward

IN: Spencer, Jetta, Morton. OUT: Grimes, Bennell, Jamar.

We can't trade him this year anyway. It's a moot point. I'm pretty sure after the whole Lloyd/ Heffernan drama years ago they put a stop to trading recently recontracted players (something like that).

Ironically his injury makes it much less likely he'll be delisted.

Agree. With the heavy pre season trying to gain elite fitness and total over haul of gameplans,leadership,coaching staff and probably at the end of the year players Neeld and co are attempting to have a tilt at flags not finishing in the middle of the road every year. The bloke has balls I'll give him that. Especially in the first half of the year he was copping criticism from all corners and is sticking to his guns.

You haven't seen enough leadership qualities in Trengove? All us supporters can really go by are his media interviews and his on-field performances. Does Jack lead by example? Is he courageous? Does he speak well in front of the media? He more than excels at all of the above.

Great win by the Scorps, hoping they can go all the way. With the MFC injury list spiralling out of control, it is going to be a tough road. Some good signs yesteday, along with players that haven't seen much, if any game time, Evans and Jetta. I loved Pencils run and dash, he must be hanging around with Blease a lot these days. Anyone .. (KC might be best informed to answer this) where is Kyle Matthews at? When fully fit, he would be a welcome in for the team.

Oh, well its sorted then. Thanks for letting us know. We were all concerned.

Surely Gysberts can get a go somewhere. At least he racks up the pill each week for casey. A better option than Bate. Wouldn't mind seeing Jetta back. We need to find some ball winners.

Davis in the best again. Cops a big job in the Magoos each week. I hope he gets a chance soon with the seniors continually losing. Last year at Casey he and Tommy Mac combined well together up back, but this year has carried greater responsibility.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. More bloody excuses. But don't worry, we will be good in 2 more years after we get more draft picks. Just be patient. Neeld is our man, he told us so. Don't worry about our performances, we are trying to re-invent the wheel. And if it all fails after 3 years, we can turn to Garry Lyon again to pick another untried coach so he can claim to the world that HE was the one that found the diond in the rough. And most of you swallow it hook line and sinker. The decisions made from the highest quarters of the MFC have led to this state of affairs. My evidence lies in the fact that the power brokers had the audacity to ask Kevin sheedy for a psychiatric evaluation in 2007. Fcuk me. This is madness. More than madness is that people think we are on the right track. 2011 - 8 wins 2012 - 2 wins Oh, but we are on the right track. No wonder we are a laughing stock.

Man, you sound just like the dunce sitting behind me today. I had to move at half time; couldn't put up with the inane criticism and dumb suggestions as to how to improve our game-plan - "kick it down the guts" is not always the best option yet this was the one solution offered. Despite witnessing what was probably our best first quarter for the year he could not find a positive. Why can't we look at a game and take some positives from it? Yeah, it's frustrating but given the injuries today we did a commendable job against a team two to three years ahead of us in terms of development. It's getting hard to turn up each week but not because we're losing; it's because of the mentality of some of our supporters. My mother always told me, "If you can't say something positive, shut the far cup."

They have ruined the holding the ball rule. It is now ok to drop the ball when you are tackled, conversely dive on the footy to get it and have 3 blokes jump on you at the same time and you get pinged. Stupid stupid interpretation. Aside from useless interpretation, umpires still useless

Sums it up really "when I switched on for the last quarter" are you for reäl fatigue equals skill errors, Strauss's kicking was very good before we started to tire Can I sum up what you are basically saying ïn comparison " I sat through the last day of a three week trial and can't believe he was found not guilty

Today's performance gives me some hope. We were undermanned, suffered injuries and played a reasonable side with a superstar forward. I thought we actually looked like an AFL side today. Sure the skill errors were still there but our tackling and desire for a contest were great.

I have two things, closely related, to say about that game. 1. Sam Blease was hit square on the top of the head while bending to pick up the ball and not only did the umpire not blow his whistle (despite a number of soft high contact frees to Fremantle), but the commentary team on 7 didn't even mention it in passing. Shocking. 2. The umpiring today was truly a disgrace. Not just the questionable calls they made, but the many blatant frees they failed to pay as well. Obviously the Blease non-call noted above stood out for me, but there were many others, such as the one-handed toss to a teammate on the boundary in full view of the ump, which are worthy of note. I think the single biggest improvement the AFl could make to the game is to introduce a proper professional body to govern umpiring, including penalties for poor or clearly one-sided performances.

1- It's good for the ego. 2- I think it's important that people looking on see that they shouldn't be scared off by the irrational, yet loud, minority. If idiocy is accept to be OK, then it makes Demonland a worse place. It becomes a place where interesting, logical, well-reasoned posts and posters become fewer and further between, which ends up feeding itself. If irrational, yet noisy, posters become the norm then good posters aren't attracted to the site, but rather it will attract irrational loonies. I want Demonland to be a place where I can have interesting conversations with intelligent people wo love their footy. Hopefully the critical mass can be on the light side, rather than the dark side.

Flower Power. I just added the goal kickers and best players to the post above from the end of the game. Gysberts was probably in Casey's best to half time but was quiet in the third quartermand did a couple of good things in the last. Same goes for Morton although he was the better of the two. Spencer played a great game in the ruck and given the Russian's injury today, he should be back at Melbourne next week. Jack Fitzpatrick played well in patches - he could have kicked four today. One of his misses was a brain fade when he marked 15 metres out, tried to play on and messed upmhis shot for goal. Jake Spencer had 45 hit outs and kicked the winning goal. Brent Moloney had 20 touches, 12 clearances and four tackles. Other stats: Morton 27, Panozza & Gysberts 26. Michael Evans had 19 disposals and two goals in limited game time in his first outing for the year after a back injury. Mitch Gent played the first half in the development league game and was called up late to play in the seniors at Windy Hill. He finished the game with 19 disposals and kicked two vital goals in the final quarter. The Scorpions defence was strong all day. Troy Davis worked hard down back and took some telling marks, Nev Jetta had 19 disposals, Brayden Salton had 24 touches and Michael Riseley did an important job on a tough opponent. With the injury situation at Melbourne it's amazing that the Scorpions keep coming up every week. On top of that they have three of their own best players out with injury - Matthews, Lees and Nicholls - and yet they keep coming up every week with new players who adapt well to the game at this level. Fortunately, they have a bye next week to charge the batteries and regenerate.

Knew we were stuffed when Jamar was subbed out at quarter time. Prior to that, we were simply smashing them in the contested possessions and clearances. Strauss was only intended to play the last quarter - had to play three. I expect Grimes will be out next week - he is a trooper. Hope Bennell is not out for the rest of the season. As to fitness - anyone who knows ANYTHING about AFL fitness knows you can't turn an unfit list into a super fit list in one pre-season. This doesn't reveal the incompetence of Misson or Craig - rather it reveals the absolutely drop dead ignorance of the posters posting that mindless droll.

The response of the Kanga guys around the pack was remarkable. When they realised what the bald gap mouthed creep was doing they reacted as if they were saving someone from being hit by a car,not 'flying the flag' in the usual tough guy argey bargey of football. The blokes got form and its all gutless....Beamers boxing camp with one hand tied behind his back would be a fair penalty

Wellingham? I can't understand why he is even mentioned. He's not in the top 5 mids at the Pies. He'd be worse than Heffernan.

You are kidding me. Is this a Bluey-esque joke? What do you think fitness is? (He says, with popcorn in hand)

If someone is insane enough to risk their 1 or 2 pick on him then I say let them have him. He isn't going to be rated that highly given that he's lost half a season and missed a fair chunk of the carnival (and AA selection). There will be many higher rated players in the draft. It will hurt us in the short term in that we have already indicated that we will take him and could be considered to be lacking in integrity, but it will hurt the club who bid on him more as they will be giving up a very highly rated pick. In the long run I can only see it helping us. If we burn a club badly the first time, will anyone be game to play silly buggers with us again? It would be sending a clear message to the rest of the competition that we will burn you if you try to screw with us. The above being the case, I feel that I should say also that I love JV and really hope to see him in the red and blue next year. I just think it is more important to the club to stand their ground and not be caught bluffing or waste our early picks.