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What's Mitch Clark got to do with Jake Spencer?

Hate to see Martin blow his chance on the Charlie this year.

I understand Viney is being pegged back due to his height and the belief that many of the advantages he's had as a junior he won't have at AFL level, but I'm not as convinced that he'll be the vanilla player some seem to be portraying. There's a particular talent in footy that gets completely overlooked in the media and on forums and that is a players' ability to be able to read the play and find the ball. Our best mid only gets it 22 times a game. Some people wonder why Brock McLean isn't as good as the equally slow Jobe Watson, but they're missing the fact that one is an A grader due to their ability to read the play and make the right decisions and the other is average at these incredibly underrated skills (one is also a great handballer and the other isn't). It's why Swan is so good. Watson is also a leader, which is why he's been able to elevate his game. It's come about through determination and single mindedness to be the best he can be. Viney also has an unyielding makeup in his character to be the best he can be. I think this is another trait that is overlooked by all and sundry. He was put up age groups in juniors because he was manic and hurting kids. He wins B&F after B&F at juniors because he's single minded. He plays in a first XV111 premiership team at school when he's in Year 9. That is incredible determination from a young fellow and don't tell me he had a physical advantage over 17 year olds when he was a short 14 year old. It shows how strong his mind is. His leadership is a trait we need and will serve us well. A poster on another site, who doesn't barrack for Melbourne, called him a "culture changer". The nay sayers may be right, but I'm not convinced that the qualities he brings to the table will prohibit him from being elite in due course. And I do think we need his 'type', because despite Neeld's love of Moloney's clearance ability (mentioned recently at a private function) I don't reckon we've got one quality inside mid - and not with Viney's pace away from a pack. Games are still won by contested footy, good decisions, and clean disposal. I agree that we're in dire need for outside class and a Jimmy Toumpas type will help in this regard. I suppose what I'm saying is that great players are often great players because of their mind. It's often down to the head on their shoulders. Garry Ablett is a great player not because of his height and not only because of his speed and not only because of his strength. He's a great player because of what he does with his talents. Because of his workrate. I don't know if Viney will be a great player, but I do know he'll leave no stone unturned in his efforts to become one. How many players can you say that about ? I reckon some are starting to sell him short, in particular I love his pace for an inside mid and attack on the contest. His attack on the contest will hold him in good stead in any environment. Numerous footy watchers have said that he is without doubt the toughest junior they've ever seen. Sylvia is built like Tarzan, but his attack on the ball at stoppages is pitiful. He attacks the man with the ball, but rarely wins the ball himself. There's a reason that Viney has dominated at every level he's ever played at, but the underlying tone by some is that he'll be found out a little once he reaches the AFL. I don't subscribe to that theory. He reads the play too well and has an appetite for the contest unmatched by 95% of players. Marc Murphy is 180cms, Sammy Mitchell 179cms, Daniel Kerr 178cms, and Shane Crawford was 174cms. Viney is only 178cms, but he's a footballer first and foremost. And I believe he has the traits to become elite. He may not have the left foot of Hodge, or Rich, but he's a very accurate pass over 35 metres, makes smart decisions and would kill his Grandmother to get to the ball first, not to mention succeed.

Gotta keep his trade value up.

With all the talk about our recent drafting, I thought it might be interesting to look at how we have fared at the trade table over the last 5 years given enough time has passed to allow judgement on most of these trades. Also, thought it might be interesting given we have declared that we may be looking to trade actively this year. 2011 In: Mitch Clark Out: Pick 12 (Sam Docherty) in: Pick 52 (Josh Tynan) Out: Matthew Warnock Verdict: obviously it is hard to tell what guys around pick 12 from last year's draft are going to go on to do, but the way Mitch Clark has performed this year and given his relatively young age, this one obviously gets a big tick. As for the Warnock trade, it was always a bit of a nothing trade, but given Warnock looked to have no real future at Melbourne and Tynan even impressed enough over his first pre-season to earn a game in Round 1, this one gets a tick aswell. 2010 In: Pick 53 (Tom McDonald) Out: Kyle Cheney, Pick 66 (Paul Puopolo) Verdict: Cheney seemed like decent depth at Melbourne and when he was traded for a very low pick I was a little suprised. But given Prendergast got this pick about as perfect as he could of given the scarce pickings at that end of the draft, it gets a tick also. Interestingly, Hawthorn also did well picking up Puopolo, so turned out to a bit of a win-win. 2009 In: Pick 11 (Jordan Gysberts) Out: Brock McLean Verdict: a big one at the time, as a player who was earmarked as a future captain of the club was traded. McLean by this stage had slowed to snail's pace and has done very little at Carlton since his move. I still have reservations about the player Gysberts can become, but getting pick 11 for McLean was the perfect case of selling at the right time. 2008 N/A 2007 In: John Meesen Out: Pick 38 (Myke Cook) In: Pick 14 (Jack Grimes) Out: Travis Johnstone Verdict: the Meesen trade didn't work out. For one, Meesen looked out of his depth even at VFL level at times, before injury got to him, and given a mid level pick was given up for him, it is obviously a flop. The Travis Johnstone trade on the other hand was another masterstroke, not only did they get rid of an ageing and mentally flakey individual, but drafted a player who is captain of the club at the age of 22. So overall, in the last 5 years, we have managed to stuff up just 1 trade, which only came at a relatively low cost. At the same time, we have done some very good bigger deals, both trading players out (McLean, Johnstone) and trading players in (Clark). Hopefully that inspires a little confidence going into trade week this year.

I really enjoyed watching Jack yesterday. He clearly had limited game time, but he still impacted. There seems to have been a bit of a theme that he's not the quickest inside mid, but I was rapt to see that on the contrary he actually has good pace and a really nice left foot 35 metre pass. I'm more confident than ever that we'll get him for a second round pick. I reckon his value lies somewhere between 6-15 and I saw enough talent to suggest that Gold Coast and GWS won't risk having to pay overs for him.

We should get him while our premiership window is still open.

Cook can handle ruck duties can he? Or do we let Martin do a Jamar and do it all by himself? I'm glad Spencer hasn't been dropped... he is nowhere near as bad as some here would like us to believe.

A good scenario would therefore be; 1. We finish 16th. 2. We deal pick 3 and a (player or swap later picks) to GWS for their 2 Under 17 picks. 3. We do a trade with GC if we want Caddy and can convince him to come to us, for a player and or pick swap. 4. We get JV with our 2nd round pick. 5. We retain picks 4 and 12.

I would think we are better off going to the draft than trade for Caddy, wouldn't use our earlier picks on him.

That bloke only managed to kick 631 goals from a total of 306 games. Soft ! I tell ya.

The dream player for some posters on this board Age 18 Drafted in top 3 200cm Has the build of Adonis Can run like the wind Never misses a shot on goal Can tackle like a human vice Can play inside/outside/downside/upside/flipside midfield, forward, KPF, KPB, CHB, CHF, GCMG, OBE, AO et al Never gets injured or out of form In his first season wins Brownlow, Bluey, Norm Smith, Coleman, and Celebrity Deal or No Deal (Football Special) Loves his Mum, his Staffy, his teammates, his coach, his manager and his accountant in that order, respects his girl/boy friend for the support she/he gives If any of the current players on the MFC list are not like this they are open to a.abuse b. derision c. delisting d. being called a spud e. being called a wasted draft pick f. being blamed solely for the latest poor defeat etc etc etc has everybody got that now

At what cost though PaulRB? Any culture we have been trying to cultivate will be oblitherated! If we pass on Viney i'll just about throw the towell in. Think you'll find you'll have thousands of shattered Demon supporters also.

I reckon he'll be using his 2 weeks to go up to the snow, so he can enjoy all the white powder that has fallen recently.

You can sugar coat it if you please Macca, but unfortunately that is the truth. I loved Trav as a Demon, and he was sublimely skilled but he let himself down with his mental application at times. Up here in Brisbane, I know they were miffed by his approach to his career. Surely we are allowed to point out negatives in players. It aint all rosy.

What do you think is the point of Robbo as an interviewer? He's not meant to be the hard-hitting media type who does what he can to get as much material out of the subject as possible. The idea is he's meant to be one of "the boys" who gives an insight into the light-hearted atmosphere around the club. He talks about himself as a bit of a joke to bring out the light-hearted banter oucher pointed out between Neeld and himself. If you are watching Robbo's interviews for anything other than a laugh and insight into the personalities around the club you are seriously mislead in terms of his role. I for one am a big fan of what Robbo does on DeeTV. Always worth a laugh and gets away from the stress of us worrying purely about the on-field performance. Keep it up Robbo!

Seriously? Robbo is great to listen and watch on DeeTV stuff. The interviews he does with Neeld in the Coaches Room show a side of Neeld that is refreshing and relaxed and I actually like seeing that side of the coach. Neeld has a very dry sense of humour and the banter between the two is good to watch. The Robbo show is light hearted and amusing.... it's not supposed to be anything but this. Matt Burgan whilst I appreciate all the media work that he does, still comes across as stiff and almost nervous in front of the camera... Just see Robbo's stuff for what it is... sheesh

As with Jamar and Martin- they big boys all look like they cant play until they hit 25 . Would hate to see us train up a player and send him off to star for another mob a la Scott Thompson, Darren Jolly ,and to a lesser extent Troy Simmonds. Demonland wouldn't be the same if we didn't have threads bagging our young blokes the year before they break out . My tip this week-Bate to get BOG and Dunn close to it . We would be completely rooted without Jack Watts holding the fort and delivering "lace out " every time. Watch Tappy crack heads and get heaps of kicks this week. We really do have the most irritating supporters in the whole comp. Carlton are about to implode-can we not just sit back and enjoy the head-kicking happen there after the Premiership talk in March ?

If the Filth thrash Carlscum Ratts will be gone by next week i predict. Sticks gave no security.

I just can't believe we didn't take Fev. Why do we have a list full of choir boys?? When will this club pull it's head out of the sand and start recruiting some tough men that can play footy, regardless of whether they're likely to miss 80% of possible matches due to suspension, rehab and being in custody??

Pretty sure about this; read it in a few places - one link. I think MFC is paying 100% of TPP in 2012 by heavily front loading some contracts with younger players. They have done this to get salary room to go after established players (including those in free agency). Boak would have to be a target; not sure about who else. And I guess Cloke, though IMO $1m is too much for any 1 player - carlton's list lacks depth because of it (and paying overs for others eg $400k Warnock and McLean). Thoughts?

Mentally preparing myself for a thrashing. You know, just another week of being a Melbourne supporter. P.S.- worst.forwardline.ever

Ricky is one of my sons and I best players, Infact my son wears no.15 on his back. Rick is an ultra talented player, who seems a little heavy to me this year,not running on top of the ground like he can. Maybe he is getting over some niggling injuries, and hasn't gained full fitness as a result. When he first started with us he was a half back and read the play really well. I'd love to see him tried in this role again.

I find myself wondering how many good games he has played over his career. I suspect if not for the life-threatening injury he sustained, there would be as many calling for him to be delisted as there are for Bate & Dunne

Brereton calling Petterd "ultra-talented" just shows how full of hyperbole he is.

Even if the bombers had pick 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 they couldn't get a deal done at trade week.

Jurrah's fate will come from the judicial law, not the club. But he certainly went home with intent, so i don't like his chances personally. People on here talk as if he will get off with a warning. Can't see it myself. I will be amazed if the jurrah pulls on a match day jumper again.

Of course Moloney remains for another week. God knows why.

Bennell is quick but he never gets the ball. Does not matter how fast you are if you do not get the ball. If Bennell was any good he should be tearing them up at Casey But he looks like an average VFL player He breaks Jack Dyers golden rule "don't get where the ball aint"

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl theTelegraph I can open AFL pages without the huns crapp. If we go to this site for AFL & sport news, maybe we can indirectly promote AFL in NSW. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne

Absolutely buggered if I know!! Could it be a mistake. Bennell was OK last year but this year he's not strong, slow, loses contestant possessions. Shocker!!...and can't mark..Melbourne the team "hardest to play against" thrashed by Lions by more than the round one margin, can't bring themselves to drop ONE solitary player after such putting in such a shocker. Angry and well over it is an understatement and the faith we share is starting to appear blind as ever. Every player now knows mediocrity is ok and WILL be accepted. Couch, Petterd give any one a go. Leigh William, Cook...You could put a step ladder in the middle of the ground with a Melbourne Jumper on and it would fair better than Spencer.

I am glad he is playing because of this thread lol.

I can't believe you are going off a couple of champ games to make an assessment on some off these players, especially viney. There is no way he is worth pick 13. In my opinion he is top 5. Viney has just missed weeks because of a collision injury. Did you not see him against men vs Geelong and also in last years champs. He was so good, wojo was sick of being embarrassed and cleaned him up, a premiership player. Viney is the midfielder we have been prayer for, for years. He is moving at stoppages which we don't do, he wins contested ball and then runs away with opposition on his tail. He has pace and he delivers by hand and foot. He will assist greatly in our spread because the others will have confidence in him getting the pill. I'm praying he slips through to the 2nd round but I cant see it happening. He and wines are easily the 2 best clearance players of this draft. I think the only team we need to worry about is the team that finishes second last because the team that comes last will pick whitfield. He did not win the larke medal for nothing. (I know Morton won it as well but so did coniglio) I'm also happy to discuss most of these players if anyone has a question. I don't consider myself an expert but I have a nephew playing u18s (it's not viney) and a close family friend playing for vm u/16. I have watched a fair bit and try not to be biased but I loved Todd viney as a player even with his deficiencies and his son is the toughest straight ahead player I have seen. There is no real point in talking about players from next years draft and there is no way I would give up 3 or 4 for Martin unless gws says to us before nomination day that they are going to nominate viney and we can make a deal.

lets hope this calf injury of Jamars is not one of those that lingers for 5 weeks i hope there is a late change that has Cook getting his first game, keen to see this kid in a red and blue jumper

Two biggies out Two littlies in < Jones Bennell > McDonald Sellar OD now in a foetal position

I hope we get Connors

Chris Knights is an interesting one. 2007-2009 he was looking like he was on his way to becoming a real top-liner. Was getting a lot of the ball, used it well, and always kicked a couple of goals. Has stagnated for whatever reason the last few years. He will be 26 next year, so should still have 4 or 5 years left of half decent footy.

Travis Boak: Port Adelaide Shannon Byrnes: Geelong Travis Cloke: Collingwood Lachlan Hansen: North Melbourne Farren Ray: St Kilda Jordan Russell: Carlton Matthew White: Richmond Jesse White: Sydney They're some of the blokes that I'd be looking at. Byrnes and Boak top of my list!

I hope he gets picked again this week even if Jamar returns as Seller may be out, we are not going to be competing for the 8, we have carried so many players for a number of years now giving Spenc a few more games ain't going to kill us and hopefully he has plenty of "upside".

Allir, was best on the ground last week.Furthermore, Daw is showing something along with Panos did Ok in the pre season.However, evenI cannot get it right all the time especially with regards to Serhat.Ability was there and what we watch is talent and he had plenty.Problem is attitude. As Neeld said a couple of week's ago - they all have talent that play in this comp -- it is their attitude towards development and hard work. I cannot judge that from the boundary line.Furthermore, re Jack Viney, I think he is a beauty and will be great for us but if you look at what has been produced this championship Viney is not inthe best 10 going around. A name virtually not mentioned is Taylor Garner whom will nearly be An All -Australian. Will be a great winger.Will play AFL seniors next year barring injury. Based on games played and taking into account injuries,my best 25 are, and not in any order are: O'Rourke, Macrae, Vlastuin, Jaksch, Viney, Daniher, Plowman and maybe Temay.---,Under17 possability Josh Kelly ..Vic Metro Whitfield,Garner, Wines, Membrey, Stringer -, possible Under17-Crouch- Vic Country Garlett,Lynch,consideration to Simpson, Shaw, Paparone,,-- Martin, Hogan possible Under 17's).---WA Toumpas,Colquhoun,McDonough,Menzel,Grundy.,Mayes--SA. Lonergan- Tas, Anderson- NT will also be considered early. As you can see I have named 30 odd players whom I believe will form the majority of the top 25. We will just have to wait till November to see whom do get picked up and what position.

Both of them fit in to the "almost was" category I reckon. Btw I heard a story - and I don't know how much truth there is to it - that a big contributor to Grgic's absolute collapse in form was due to the absolute incessant, relentless hounding he received online, at matches and in public. I know footy players are meant to be "tough" but they shouldn't be expected to be completely immune to the human side of things. The way Grgic got treated by so-called supporters in his latter years was shameful, and I don't think the reception Cale Morton gets is much better.

I used to live not too far from the Lions training ground, and I saw him on at least 10 or 20 times burning around on a tiny little scooter, big helmet on, and with the beard flowing, driving through the streets of East Brisbane. Always used to make me laugh.

I guess I am more inclined towards a hard assed high performance culture than a sentimental old boys club. If there is daylight between Whitfield and Grundy (could be others), and Jack Viney we shouldn't flinch at grabbing the best player available. I don't know if this is the case. I'd love Jack to play for Melbourne, and he could well be a great player.

You can add Jamar to the list... many were calling for him to be traded/delisted and just a couple of seasons later he is AA as well. I will keep repeating it...despite what people are saying here, Spencil was starting to show something good before he was struck down and went under the knife, and there is no reason why he won't do so again.... then again, patience has never been much of a virtue with quite a few on these forums.

And Wrecker!

Every time I see someone write "trade week" instead of trade period I imedietly think troll

Haha, that's a pissah. Speaking of losing it, how about this from Fast Forward. And a few more good bits.

Zomer! FTW!

"No one person dominates the Collingwood football club," McGuire said. I just about fell out of my chair! What delicious irony!