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Where to start on this.... We have a coach who is very clear on gameplan and this will either make or break him or the club. One thing for sure he wont change it and or tolerate players not showing the discipline to stay the course. Stuie...on the face of it of course you are correct. Our current list played flashy football that occasionally got us good wins against teams that were susceptible to a loss interstate. On top of that our better performances generally included players through the midfield who haven't really made it on the field this year. (Think Scully, Sylvia, Moloney not to mention Jurrah up forward) However as stated by others the trending of this gameplan was not obvious to anyone (just review threads on DB and lack of gameplan last year) including people at the club. Our team although seemingly showing improvement was not really on track to do anything long term in terms of matching it with the good teams. This year we are almost 5 games in and now we see this new gameplan and edge being implemented by a coach who by the way also lives in Northcote. This coach Mark Neeld will stay the course and clearly needs time to adjust the list to the way he believes this team needs to play long term to win. To give you an idea according to GPS data the players are running 30% further this year during games than last year. The gameplan pushes them right to the edges of the boundary and then asks for counter attacks to be made by getting the entire team to switch to the other side of the ground at pace. This asks alot of the players in terms of fitness. That is why they make really poor decisions and have been generally fading after halftime. When Mark arrived he knew straight away the list wasn't where it needed to be in terms of fitness to go with a gameplan that could challenge for the ultimate success. But he is determined to change this. People percieved us with all the investment in coaching and a new fitness regime that we would automatically be better. Reality is that was never going to happen. There is understandably a lack of patience from many...we have all been through a lot of pain and with loss after loss doubt creeps in. But let me tell you this. Mark Neeld has belief that what he is doing will generate long term success and he will not bend from that. People point to his media appearances being a distraction and that perhaps he shouldn't have said 'the hardest team' comment. But reality is that is his aspiration and he totally believes in it. Further to that, leaders at the club have expressed to me that they totally understand and believe in the gameplan and what is occurring. More than one has confided that under DB they really struggled to know the gameplan. With Neeldy they know what it is and agree totally with the direction. So people get ready for a season of more pain. I expect people will now jump on me for trying to impart what I know. Some will try to discredit me. Some will continue to pull apart Mark and his gameplan. They will continue to pot the 4 game coach expecting him to have turned us into a powerhouse by now. I wish everyone had the privilege and benefit I have had to spend time with Mark and other leaders of the club. When you actually see what is happening inside it is far more tangible to understand the facts as opposed to the many opinions sprouted about the club. I'll give you another example. When Mark started the club didn't even have the IT programs all other clubs had and he had to convince the club to purchase it and implement it. There are many more embarrassing examples that Mark has had to address that were big gaps in terms of getting the foundations right for the football department. It kills me to see our own people on this site make uninformed comments based purely on what they see on gameday. Although it is entirely understandable. (Believe me it kills me too) I wanted to write to try and provide some sort of solace to those that may wish to believe what I say. I see in many the passion and heart and pain that to have in my heart. All I can ask each of you is be realistic with expectations. Please don't blame Mark who is a brand new senior coach trying to change the club and set it up for success. Some senior players have a lot to answer for but I know you all know that. It is not accepting mediocrity just realistic based on where we have come from. In my job I am fortunate to have a lot to do with a number of clubs and I must confess MFC has been the club by far who are always behind trying to catch up. Mark is leading the way with fixing this disparity but it doesn't all happen and click overnight. The comment from Mick Malthouse about things other than football was an articulation of the fact the club has been paving the foundations and multiple levels to finally put everything into the Football team. Believe it or not good times are ahead but not without a lot of pain first. Stick with the Dees the light at the end of the tunnel will come!

Yes - Casey win another nailbiter!

Robert is a former coach who got sacked and has a soft spot for other coaches in the same position. But he has got it so so wrong here. He says we fired Bailey after one poor match (the 186 game). That is not true. Round 2 - Hawthorn - the Dees were 28 points up just before 1/2 time. By the start of the last quarter we were 40 points down. arguably our worst 3rd Q in memory. Round 6 - West Coast. Game over at quarter time. arguably our worst 1st Q in memory. Round 8 - North. MFC 25 points up early in the second. Nearly 40 points down by 3/4 time. Round 10 - Carlton - Another 6 goal performance from MFC. Carlton doubled our score. Round 12 - Collingwood. Another 6 goals from the Dees. Collingwood kicked 10 in a row in the last quarter. Round 15 - The Dogs. We played a middle ranked side and got done by 64 points. They killed us in the last and i believe Bailey was lucky to see out the round. Round 19 - Geelong - 186. In every one of these games, the opposition got a run-on and we couldn't deal with it. After 4 years with Bailey we did not have a game plan to cope with adversity. Robert is very selective with his stats. He says Melbourne won 8 1/2 games in 2010 and because we won 7 1/2 games by round 19 (of 24 rounds) therefore we were improving slightly, but the stat is misleading. Yes we did have 3 big wins against GC, Freo and Adelaide in 2011, but these teams were struggling with form, injury and inexperience. It's the same story with the win over Essendon. We caught them during their 5 game losing streak. Compare the 2011 results with the previous year and we clearly did better in 2010. 2 close games against Collingwood; just falling short against the Dogs and Hawthorn, and thrashing another final 8 side in Sydney. We were going backwards in 2011, and that's why Bailey was fired.

Can we drop the Cook/Darling comparisons already. We, along with every other club, skipped on picking up Darling in the first round. He plays for West Coast now and we have Cook. Nothing we can do to change history.

Davey and Morton - both talented, albeit much maligned players on this site, are starting to show a lot more intensity now. And that's a great sign, because the upside to these guys is IMO enormous. I reckon Neeld loves Bate - and I can see why. He's a footballer's footballer. Definitely in our best 21 under Neeld - strange to think he was on the outer just six months ago. Jones - unlucky not to be Captain. Neeld's turning him into a weapon. Watts and Trengove didn't have great games - but there's no need to worry about these guys. Both players will be in Sheahan's top 50 in the next few years. Magner - unbelievable rookie pick. You could shoot him in the head with a gun, and he'd get back up and smash someone. He could win the B&F this year. Tom McD - what a great game from a 6 gamer. I literally couldn't believe it. We really missed Moloney and Sylvia in the first few rounds. Gotta love Bartram and Jordie Mac. We won all the important stats, except obviously the points on the scoreboard. All in all, the signs are there. In fact, some really, really good signs. Neeld is making this previously soft list, a hard list.

Saw that one the big screen, was EPIC, was going ape [censored] at something, I think sellar is there for Neelds structures, he gets to the contest, makes one and nearly marks it. His game is close to being effective-ish. Yes this isnt good enough but he is a big target who brings the ball to ground atleast, and i think thats half his job

Dropping Watts to Casey after one bad game adds absolutely nothing to his development. Why do you think Geelong continued with Hawkins all those years? He must continue to play AFL.

The boys had a dip all night, that was the most pleasing part. We were much harder at the ball than the Saints, beat them in contested possessions, tackles and clearances. 9 times out of 10, if you win those stats, you win the game. Only thing letting us down is disposal efficiency. For the 2nd week in a row, if we were cleaner with the ball, we win the game. Sucks to lose but after the lack of effort shown in the first 3 weeks, I'm beginning to see glimmers of hope! Good effort fellas!

Something to be excited about after tonight. My disappointment is well tempered by their serious endeavour. Bartram's inside out banana after dodging a tackle in the driving rain was pretty special.

Can't agree with this. He smashed Sam Fisher. Subbing Dunn let Fisher off the hook and Sylvia gave us nothing in return. Stupid move. Should have been Watts wearing red tonight.

The incessant zooming in on the player with the ball, particularly at frees or marks, while we see absolutely nothing of the strategic placements ahead of the play pisses me off no end.

OK, how does the Tassie wee'n'poos sound then?

One of the best VFL games I've been to with an epic finish. All the Melbourne players put in decent games also. My take on the Melbourne players. Bennell: Probably the best game I've seen him play, silky smooth running off half back, took the oposition on, set up several attacking thrusts and took some gutsy marks in defence also. Funnily enough a mate of mine who I was with today who doesn't watch a heap of footy I told him that Bennell was a spud and would be first to be delisted at seasons end. By the end of the match my mate thought I was an idiot. Blease: Did a lot of the hard stuff that he often doesn't do. A lot of chasing and takling, and was good to see him kick 3. Very good finshing skills and his final goal was a great kick in the circumstances. Didn't have as many line breaking runs as you'd expect, but that's cause he was winning more of his own ball. Couch: I love this kid. He just keeps going and going and going. I didn't even realise that he had that toe injury. Was on the bottom of every pack and the goal he kicked at the 30min mark of the last quarter from a stoppage was one of those goals that quality players just will themselves towards. The second Moloney, McKenzie, Jones or Magner miss another match, Couch has to come in! Davis: Very good in defence. A lot of timely spoils and created some run off the backline. Thought he could have done a bit better and stopping Goldstein from marking in the goal square towards the end, but otherwise another good hitout soldiering the backline. Fitzpatrick: Played an important role today. Was the only tall target in the forward line today with Cook & Williams not lining up and presented all day, his kicking does need work though. Competed hard when helping out Spencer in the ruck, but Goldstein was massive today. Lawrence: Was busy all day and constantly looked dangerous despite not kicking a goal. Nearly kicked a beauty in the last but just missed, like Fitzpatrick he needs to work on his kicking, but his pressure was very good. Whether he makes it or not though I'm still not convinced either way. Nicholson: Suprised he got as much of it as was mentioned. Tried hard all day to provide some run but he did butcher it a couple of times. I still do rate this guy though. Petterd: Didn't get a heap of it and only kicked the 1 goal while spending most of the day forward line, but I thought his 3rd qtr was brilliant. Spent a lot of the 3rd term in the middle when Casey were into the breeze and his work inside helped Casey get on top in the middle that term and win the clearances and only loose the term by a goal when into the breeze. Will be a chance for a recall. Shehan: Best game I've seen him play for Casey, very similar to Davis's game and took some real good marks deep in defence. His use of the ball was a lot better this week then I'd seen the last few weeks also. Spencer: Tried hard but was dominated by Goldstein in the ruck. Wasn't affraid to throw his weight around though and no doubt will be better for todays ruck lesson. Taggert: Didn't see a heap of him but he did do a few nice things playing mainly off the half back I thought. For his first game though he wasn't bad. One thing that was evident though was that he wasn't affraid of the hard stuff. Great win by Casey today as they were clearly missing tall targets in the forward line. With Jurrah, Cook, Williams & Martin to come back though this will be rectified.

Really interesting stat. From the boundary, It looked to me that the players were generally trying really hard. I think I might have posted that I thought that they might have been exhausted from 'aimless' pursuit and spreading because they hadn't quite worked out what they needed to be doing. This would also have also left them pretty well worn out as the game progressed. So, maybe as the coaching panel worked out who's confused and why, they're able to work on it. I was also a bit surprised at how quickly people began to condemn the new regime without giving them opportunity to demonstrate they knew what they were doing. Last year, after four full years of developing payers and a game plan, we were still unable to string together more than one decent game in a row. The law of averages suggests that a pot plant coaching us could probably have achieved a similar result over that period. For the first time this year in 'proper' footy,, I can genuinely say that last night I enjoyed a game of football that MFC was participating in. May there be a few more over the next 6 weeks.

6. Jones - BOG by a mile for the first half. Wasn't as prolific as the game wore on, but I believe his guts and his efforts set the precedent for the rest if the team initially. Has really been exceptional this year. 5. McKenzie - the smother on Goddard (3rd quarter?) set this in stone for me. Back to the Jordie we love - hard as a cat's head. 4. Jamar - hitouts galore and put them in useful spots. Starting to find some cohesion with our current batch of mids. 3. McDonald - would've made a few in the selection thread red-faced. Seemed to strike the perfect balance between manning his superstar opponent and attacking the ball. Very impressive game. 2. Rivers - reading of the play has always been his strength and was on show tonight. Has a knack of seeming to just appear in the right place for the contest every time. 1. Magner. 4 game veteran. Just love the brand of footy he plays. Still pinching myself that we got him/ Others whose game I loved but couldn't find room for in the votes: Bartram - saved his best for his 100th. Unfashionable but can always be counted on for 100% effort. His goal itself was probably more arse than class, but the work he put in to win the footy and break way to score it certainly wasn't. Morton - showed all his tools. Helped out in packs when it was necessary without compromising his outside game, and his tackling was the best it's ever been probably. In the last two weeks he's improved significantly. Turned the corner? Grimes - just works so hard, and I reckon the lack of quality in his disposal is greatly overstated. His tackle on Montagna (?) that lead to the Watts goal gave goosebumps. Was very pleased to see all the boys including Watts run straight to him after that goal. Bail - provided crucial run on a night that didn't suit running much. His form has been ordinary, but turned it around last night. Two goals is a good return.

For future reference it is vitally important to remember that Robert Walls will ALWAYS support a sacked coach.

Sellar is interesting, I thought he was doing his job bringing the ball to the ground, he could have taken a few marks with a bit of luck last night, and if the ball was dry probably would have. I believe that with a few more games and a bit more confidence he will be ok, remember he was given the boot by Adelaide and that would have dented his confidence. We turned the corner last night.

Moloney made some big blunders last night. There was the incident you speak of, but the one that made me lose it was when he decided to take on another tackle on the 50m line instead of just getting it on the boot which was his first thought. Tackle, turnover, 2 passes, goal. Spirit killer.

This thread every week is a litany of players " I don't like". MacDonald did the job this week and will stay. Dunn was pulled for going inboard against the gameplan... What neeld does will tell us if he is playing just a defensive role. Watts for mine was played in the wrong position he does well on the wing. McDonald is developing well and who knows may end up at chf next season. Sellar is at risk if Martin plays well.

People want poor performing Melbourne players to be replaced by players dropped to Casey who have not shown anything special. Unfortunately for Martin, Fitzpatrick and Petterd they have not demanded a call up from Casey. Couch has been unlucky. At the Casey level all MFC listed players should start week in week out to demand a call up. I am not sure rewarding Martin, Fitzpatrick & Petterd not on form but on individuals having a bad games does us any value. Secondly the changes need to be for like or based on next weeks opposition. There is proof though that persisting with players like Morton, Davey & Tom Mac has seen them find a little form and has helped the team structures develop..

By no means am I standing up for Watts but if you had a quick glance down the other end you would have seen possibly the best key forward of his generation get toweled up by a hard running kid who has played less than 10 games. Surely everyone can see the congestion and conditions played a major part in this and most likely impacted on Watts' game. In saying that I would still like Watts to hit the contest harder. He isn't a stick figure anymore and needs to realise that.

Great post Footynut. I remain absolutely convinced that Mark Neeld will transform this club. I've said it before, if he had a number, I'd put it on the back of my guernsey. I love the man. He is currently making decisions, and adopting structures and approaches, that this club has shirked for far too long. No doubt, there will be more pain - but, unlike the pain we've endured over the last few decades, I reckon this year's pain will be worth it.

It's also easy to forget that Jones is only 24. I know it feels like he's been around for an eternity, but his best footy is ahead of him. Each year the weaknesses in his game seem to diminish a bit more. I couldn't be happier with his effort and his form this year.

I speak jive.The honky was rappin about Mitch Clark and how he failed to "protect da neck"

Funny how years ago people said Jimmy Bartel was too slow to be a good midfielder.

I'd be happy with this, maybe try to find a spot for Petterd if he plays well for Casey. But the forums (and admittedly mine as well) whipping boy, Morton, played the best game I've seen from him for a VERY long time and he would probably be the most likely person to give way for Ricky Bobby. Joel Mac might come out for Chip, and Ricky could come in for Sellar. In: Petterd, Frawley, Clark Out: Sellar, Joe Mac, Dunn

I agree Sellar was a bit ordinaire and couldn't mark the pill to save himself but I liked his attack on the footy. He was playing relief ruck, so unless Martin or Fitzpatrick come in, Sellar will likely stay.

I wonder if this will change over time. This loss was CLOSE - and that's not something we've seen for a long while - and it seems that there has been a huge step up in defensive pressure. Did anyone else notice all the options from behind kickouts - including Morton taking the man on? We transitioned out ok. A HUGE improvement over "bomb it long to Jamar on the members wing" of the last 3 years. I think the flair will be released when the defense is sorted. Go Dees

Two things happened. Firstly, we changed our tactics and let them have an extra man in defense. For the first three quarters we refused to give on this and kept sending people into our forward line to man them up and it worked. For some reason in the 4th we stopped and let them get away with it. Secondly, we subbed Dunn out of the game. He'd been doing a good job of sitting on Fisher. This combination meant that not only did they have a spare man in defense, but that the spare man was Fisher and he proceeded to rip our forwards to shreds and rebound at will. The only real hope we had at this point was a running 50m goal from the midfield.

From what we saw tonight, we'd absolutely destroy GWS. Those skinny teenagers would be cowering in the corner when faced with the physical pressure we applied tonight. Add Clark, Jurrah, and a couple of others to our side, and we'll account for GWS easily, and will probably pinch one or two other games along the way. You have to remember that we won't get worse this year, and we could conceivably get way better very quickly as we become accustomed to Neeldy's gameplan.

Biased I know, but the boy has lifted in his last two game. Main point is the kid layed 2 massive tackles on Mcevoy and dropped him, 5 tackles in total. Whilst he doesn't look much bigger, the kids core strength it really getting there. Bench bench and fly laterals improved by 22% from last years pre-season. Clearance work was great and looked hungry, KEEP it going SON!!!

This thread sucks. I bet you guys are the ones fighting over granpa's money before he dies.

Stuei get over yourself that Ruckman Rhys Stanley has won two GF Sprints and is no slouch

You're not wrong about most of what you have written, however what the supporters were happy with tonight was the effort of the team and not rolling over when challenged. We played out the game which is what we have been asking for all year. Now granted this shouldn't be something extraordinary to be applauded, it should be the norm - but baby steps.

Yep, good game. His last kick out deep in the fourth quarter had real intent, tried to take the game on. Liked it and hope it becomes the norm. I don't fear skilled stadium next week. We'll lose, but if we play like tonight, there'll be no humiliation.

A great effort from the boys tonight. Our intensity was superb for four quarters, we just seemed to run out of legs in the last. Finally we tackled like an AFL club should. There have been so many missed tackles in the first four weeks but tonight I thought we 'stuck' most of our tackles and our actual intent to tackle was much better. There's no doubt the rain helped us - made it more of a scrap and made it more difficult for the Saints to dominate us in uncontested possessions like the other teams who have played us so far. We still have concerns in this area. Really enjoyed the game, although Saints fans probably thought it was a shocker and would be relieved to have ground out the win. Loved Jordie's game. Was great to see a Melbourne player niggling and antagonising and getting right in an opposition star's face. Really aggressive tagging performance and absolutely towelled up Goddard. Jones and Grimes were also excellent and I thought the backline was pretty solid for most of the night. First time in a long time I've walked away from a game proud of the team. Unfortunately we've all seen us over the last four or five years occasionally put in a performance like tonight and then revert back to the rubbish we've dished up so often. So the big question is - was that a one off or can we make that the standard and bring that intensity and aggression on a weekly basis?

Great game, even sitting in the pouring rain for much of it and in spite of the result. First half was almost exhilarating because the commitment was finally rewarded. It very well may be that they are learning where to position themselves so that their efforts actually get better rewarded. Still a few howlers to keep us grounded and I agree with an earlier poster who said that the rain helped us. It certainly had an impact on the cleaness of the Saints' handling and created a lot of turnovers for us. Jones, Rivers, all 3 of the Mc/Macs, Magner, Bate, Cole, Bartram, Grimes all delivered. I am glad they've all been given an extended opportunity to get up to and/or maintain speed. Jack Watts had a shocker (and I normally like everything he does!) and Dunn & Sellars didn't impress. Jamar also was really disappointing in that, apart from his tap work (unbeatable), he seems to have almost no influence. The St Kilda ruck men had almost an opposite result I.e. smashed in the tap work but effective around the ground. Ultimately, in my view, theirs was a better result. The bottom line: if we keep improving at this rate , a win can't be far away and a series of wins not tha much further.

Tom McDonald v Nick Riewoldt was an inspired move. Who else has the tank to run with him? It was super-impressive and T-Macs disposal was a huge improvement on last week(s). It begs the question: McDonald has just been taught by the mistro about how to run and run and run in the forward line. Riewoldt couldn't get away from him. Do we now play McDonald in the forward line given he has some grounding in the forward line (preseason x 2 and Casey) and that he now knows how to run his opponent into the ground or does he stay in the the back line, learning his craft?

Dunn didn't have Fisher in the 1st quarter. Watts did. After he had 10 disposals on Watts in Q1 Dunn took him and gave up 2 in the next quarter. Not sure what the stats were in the third, but given that he finished with 23 and got plenty in the 4th, it can't have been many. We really missed Clark today. He has to come back in. Likewise Frawley if fit. Assuming we get them both back, I would say Joel Mac and either Watts or Seller will go. Sad to say but Watts was very bad tonight.

Haven't been bothered reading this thread, due to my thoughts that this thread would be super negative about a kid who has fast become one of the most improved players in the game. Tonight, especially in the first half he was immense. He will be our first player in a long time to be classed as A grade, in the elite category. I am loving his work rate at present

I agree with this. Dunn had dulled Fischers influence and Watts was not having a great game.

Not fit enough. Another preseason away. Start to get a glimpse of how ferocious neeld wants us to play.

Seriously? You've waited until we put in our most promising and consistent performance, and nearly beat a way more experienced Saints to make this call? Seriously? We may well end up 0-11. The run ahead is a difficult one. But, I reckon we'll give a few teams a shake. To say you'd be surprised if we beat GWS is just being a drama queen.

Trenners has been struggling, niggle or captaincy do you think? Tappy needs some more fitness after an interrupted preseason, Watts in and out of the game needs to work on that, Tommy Mac I thought really progressed as the game went on, horrible at first but really stuck at it and would have learned a lot. Tough day for the youngens, but i thought blokes like Bate, McKenzie, Jones, Moloney all showed something that we've been trying to find all year, even Davey has started to show some signs I think.

Can anyone name a game where Watts has played well in the wet? I've seen a fair few howlers from him in the wet. This one included. Great work from Tom Mac. We have found a player! hope he plays every game this year. Morton and Davey stepped up.

Better definitely. Showed some mettle. But what's up with Watts and Trengove? No.1 Draft Picks FFS! Trenners looks little better than an honest plodder.

Worth a bump

Will people please understand that it is an entire ethos of a football club that Neeld is trying to change? Forget the 'pretty' victories over visiting interstate teams of the Bailey era. It was a period of soft, unaccountable football which would have seen us annihilated in finals (if we'd kept him on and somehow managed to limp in to the eight). The last time this club had a genuine fighting spirit was during the Northey era and that is what Neeld, along with modern tactical strategies, is now bringing to the club. If you think it's all going to magically click after 4 rounds of footy you're dee-luded. There were some encouraging signs against the Dogs, from some players. This will be the story of the season as Neeld works through the list to see who's got the necessary temperament and hunger to play the new "Demons" footy. Do yourselves a favour and don't get too hung up on the results this season. You'll be in for a lot more anguish if you do.

i've given up reading the papers and listening to footy on the radio. with so many ex-players and journalists looking for a story, the amount of pointless articles is incredible. do you think neeld and the coaching team dont know about the problems that we have? yes we have gone backwards since the sydney game, but there is a reason for it. essendon went through the same thing after they got rid of matthew knights. they were a team of downhill skiers who won very well some weeks, and got smashed others. that was the path i think we were going down. while it is incredibly frustrating at times (most of the time) watching the demons, im confident that neeld is going down the right path. our defensive side was terrible, and he has made that a focus, and it is something that will take time. fitness will play a big part in it, as will a bit of time. coming from a basketball background myself, i understand that zone defence and the structures they are trying to implement take time to learn. we have looked stupid at times this year when the opposition has a free man, and one of our guys leaves his man to to go him, only for him to kick the ball over his head to his man, and so on. this is something that will improve once our structures are better, and when players know exactly what their role is, and when to go. its not something you can put into practice overnight, so unfortunately we just have to be patient. as for people questioning trengove and grimes being appointed captains, it is 4 games into the season, give them some time. there was obviously an issue with our senior group, which neeld identified straight away. we could have gone down the same old track, and left one of them in charge, or we can make the bold decision to give it to a young guy. time will tell whether we made the right decision. i think we did, because i didnt see too much leadership from the older guys last year. and if they cant handle being overlooked for the leadership, which in part was decided by the players, then they should move on and give someone else a go.

Because the other 'experts' call them experts. It's the Massive Masturbatory Echo Chamber of Modern AFL Footy Journalism ©.