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Hey Jack. The centre of Australia is a troubled space, now more so than ever in my time here. I dont want the broader issues and incidents I discuss in the following post to reflect on Liam and the incident that he has alleged to have been a part of. Nor do I wish to suppose to have any specific knowledge on the Yuendumu situation. But perhaps some of the following can provide some context for understanding the reported events on Wednesday night and the commentary that has flowed since. The incident earlier this week, allegedly involving possibly this countrys most famous indigenous person, seems to have (momentarily) thrust some attention upon the difficult lives of Aboriginal people in Central Australia. The popular media has suggested that this incident was cultural. It also seems to have been suggested that our inability to properly comprehend this incident stems from our disinterest and our collective failure to understand Aboriginal people and their culture. A part of this I agree with, I see something a little different however in how the incident itself has been reported and interpreted. This incident, as we know, was part of an ongoing feud. It has been suggested that those involved were part of a legitimate attempt at ritual retribution. I think it is important when interpreting the events of the week to have some historical understanding of payback and how it has evolved into what it is today. Historically payback in the Western Desert occasionally involved groups of males (ritual avengers) who sought out specific individuals deemed to have caused wrong to a family member of theirs. They were not random acts of violence. When the guilty party was located a confrontation, either by ambush or in special circumstances, a mutually organised event took place. In some instances during post-contact times payback evolved into a highly organised, strictly governed sequence of events (more like a performance or ceremony) that was minutely controlled by a group of senior men. The physical act, of the spearing in most instances, was always performed by the appropriate avenging family member who was either experienced in such acts or was closely instructed by the afore mentioned senior men. This was often to ensure the wound was not fatal and to satisfy those seeking retribution by way of the temporary affliction of pain and crippling upon the wrong-doer. I have witnessed a recent (8 years ago) version of such events. It was attended by the entire community, it occurred in the middle of the day and in a neutral part of the community. It all transpired under the close surveillance of an experienced team of members from the Northern Territory Police force. Medical staff from the local clinic were also on hand to tend to the resultant wounds after the procedure was complete. At no stage did this event stray from its intent. It saw a partial end to the ill feeling between the two families involved and the same process settled a number of other ongoing disputes. This is not to say however that the original act of violence or sorcery was forgotten or forgiven. Often the ramifications of such incidents last and manifest themselves in other ways. Such carefully organised events are unfortunately rare. Current acts of payback in the town camps of Alice Springs happens on an almost weekly basis. The disturbing, almost guaranteed ingredient these days however is of course alcohol. There has been a strong tendency, over a number of decades, to attempt to excuse pure drunken violence as cultural payback. It is problematic then when Wednesday nights incident, which it must be said, was typical of the norm in Central Australia, is reported, interpreted and then understood as some sort of traditional or culturally sanctioned right of passage. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between the strictly governed form of retribution described previously and the alcohol fueled free-for-all that is currently commonplace. Whilst I believe there needs to be an acknowledgement of Aboriginal law within Whitefella law, which I extend to include controlled retribution, I do not accept the oft presented and disturbingly popular consideration that the violence as it occurs almost nightly in Alice Springs is cultural. There must come a time when racial politics must step aside and yield to reason. Make no mistake, I believe Liam was/is highly obliged to play his role as a well regarded member of a family involved in a complex dispute. The words in the previous sentence may sound pithy, but the heavy expectation upon family in Central Australian indigenous culture is impossible to fathom from the outside, where I consider myself to sit. Liam is expected and obliged to express his feelings about the death of his kin. Violence, it is said, is an expression of feeling (this comes from an excellent book on a neighboring cultural group the Pintupi). Liam is obviously attempting not to shirk his responsibilities in two worlds with two differing peer groups. Because when its all over and he returns to the Western Desert with a premiership medallion around his neck, he must face his family and stand as the true Warlpiri man I expect he is. I try to remind myself that every football career is a relatively short one and that football is just a part of his life. This is a bitter pill to swallow if you are footy mad and not understanding of Liams extreme circumstance. None of this explains why he was at Little Sisters and he put himself in the circumstance he did. None of this excuses his actions. It is devastating and together we feel it. The one thing I take solace in though is Liam himself. Some thought Rudeboys fantastic biography on Liam was premature and a few never bought into Brett Badgers assertion that for Liam the journey to game number 1 was greater than the journey to game 200. Ive met Liam a few times, but dont know him from a bar of soap. What I do know though is where he has come from, my wife grew up on a neighboring community Even if you saw it with you own eyes, you like me, would still fail to fathom it. The Liam Jurrah effect in Central Australia is palpable. Kids want to be him and wear our colours because he does. These kids have had a magnificent role model, which for me is what makes this week so difficult to swallow. Cars parade around the desert emblazoned in windscreen-wide Demons stickers. A relative of his I know well, whose name is spelt slightly differently due to a bureaucratic misspelling, desperately wants to change his name by deedpoll, so proud he is of his nephew Liam and his relationship to him. I suppose my motivation for writing this post is multi-pronged. I hope the complexity of Liams situation is a little more exposed and that understanding may come from it. I also want to respond to the concern some posters share about the circumstance of people in Central Australia. Because this is the guts of the pain and confusion we have felt this week. Liam has made a series of bad decisions to be in the position he is. But I encourage you all to stand by him and our proud club on our collective learning curve. When he returns to play the game he loves consider for a moment not just the journey Liam continues to travel upon, but the journey we, as his supporters, do as well. ---- Indigenous disadvantage in this country is a real thing. I cannot begin to discuss this issue here as it just doesnt feel right. But remember this; Liam comes from a chronically underfunded community where there is almost zero opportunities for long-term meaningful employment. His family have probably never had the opportunity to own their own home. The Fedral Governments Intervention saw all Aboriginal men throughout the Territory cast with the suspicion of being drunken pornographic obsessed pedophiles. Just look at the big signs as you enter any and ever Aboriginal community here. His families income is managed by the government who tell them where they can and cannot spend their money. Some non-indigenous people who live on Aboriginal communities and receive government assistance are exempt. Why? Because their not indigenous. How? The Howard government suspended the Racial Discrimination Act in this country. Rudd and Gillard have upheld this since. Imagine how you would feel. -------- Earlier this year a 9 year old girl hanged herself in her home community on the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Lands in South Australia. 9 years old. Also in Central Australia, a coroner earlier this week described the body of a domestic violence victim as having injuries consistent with what one would expect if the body had fallen from an aircraft in flight. On Tuesday in Alice Springs a woman from a community 380kms west of Alice Springs had her throat slit. Her husband is being sought for questioning as the prime suspect in the case. But perhaps what has motivated me to share my thoughts with you today is what I woke to this morning. Just last night a dear old friend of mine was violently stabbed to death in a camp not far from Little Sisters. He too was from a remote community and was the victim of a family dispute fueled by drugs and alcohol. His own brother is wanted for questioning. His mother inconsolable, a family devastated. My concern, which I cannot answer, is why is this happening and why dont you as Australians know and hear about it like I do? --- For me Jack, Demonland (& Demonologys) proudest moment was when we bought his debut guernsey and gifted it to the community of Yuendumu. I am assured it does stand as the beacon we wanted it to be and always will. I know Liams Grandmothers acceptance of our gift was a proud moment for those present. It showed that people understood, even way back then, what a special person was in our midst. There have been questions asked during this last week of what one can do to understand, to help or assist. I might suggest some websites below of organisations that rely on the support of good people. Mt Theo http://www.mttheo.org/home/ Western Desert Nganampa Walytja Palyantjaku Tjutaku Aboriginal Corporation http://wdnwpt.org.au/ The Central Australian Aboriginal Alcohol Programs Unit http://www.caaapu.org.au/ The Ngaanyatjarra Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara (NPY) Women's Council http://www.npywc.org.au/index.html Drug and Alcohol Services http://www.dasa.org.au/

Hawthorn DID NOT have their full strength team in......notably minus the best player in the AFL, Sam Mitchell, and Shaun Burgoyne, who would have had a picnic last night. Any suggestion the Nab cup is not meaningful is just desperate thinking to cover disappointment. We are light years from the standard required to be a top 8 side, and it is inconceivable to imagine us being remotely competitive against a top 4 side. A frank absence of skill, and the ability to protect the ball getter/carrier the greatest disappointments. Hawthorn's use of the shepherd is just beautiful to watch, and their physicality to create opportunity for the runners, coupled with their sharp disposal and vastly superior marking ability is inspiring. It will be interesting to see how our team develops this year, but at the moment, and as far into the future as can be seen with this list, I'm afraid we may as well be playing in a different league. Far from taking consolation in the 'just the NAB cup' refrain, I think last night's game was the most revealing for this club since the Geelong game last year.

Ned and DemonAndrew have hit the nail on the head with "we lack class". It gets back to T20DP. It's widely known that the MFC decided to rebuild the club through the draft in order to give ourselves the best shot at a flag since '64. But for that to be successful we needed to recruit well. We were never going to make every post a winner and we didn't need to, but the last 5 drafts have been crucial for this footy club. For varying reasons, either injury, form, or money, the following top 20 draft picks from the last 5 drafts didn't suit up last night: Morton, Grimes, Scully, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Cook and you could nearly say 9 with Addam Maric, who was pick 21. Nine early picks weren't running around last night. It's terribly disappointing. I'm not going to delve deeply into why they weren't running around, because in the main we know why, I'm just highlighting that through either bad luck, i.e. injury, bad player development, or bad picks, we have so much potential gold sitting on the sidelines. Yes, the players need to learn a new plan and it's going to take time, I'm merely pointing out the lack of class in all areas of the ground last night. There's no doubt we looked slow, which in part is decision making. The good news is that most of the players I listed are still at the club and have an opportunity to forge strong careers. We need to develop those players as quickly and as well as we can. Btw, I get sick and tired of reading "it's just a NAB Cup match". Firstly, you're pointing out the bleeding obvious and secondly, we're two weeks from the season proper and are taking these games seriously. There's a reason that the coaches will analyse the video of this game with a fine tooth comb. The coaching panel will get a lot of good stuff from this game and the players will be better for it.

It hasn't really been said up till now and perhaps it's because of the complexity of the issues involved or that it smacks of excuse making but the matter has been raised in a way on the club's site. Mark Neeld said after the game that the drama surrounding Liam Jurrah won't affect his team in the lead-up to round one - Jurrah drama 'won't affect' Dees I sincerely hope that to be the case and understand that the Jurrah "drama" is a matter of far wider importance than the sport of football but the events of the week would almost certainly affected the team dynamic last night. Just as many supporters followed the events from Alice Springs as they unfolded on Thursday and Friday, the players would have been no different and many would have been closely and emotionally involved. These things inevitably affect the team dynamic and it's understandable that in the early days after the event it's going to have an effect even if only subliminally among some of them. Hawthorn was the better team last night. Far better. But the Melbourne team that ran out onto Etihad Stadium did not appear to be fully focussed and the fact that Hawthorn had 6.2.38 on the board before Melbourne scored bears testimony to that fact. No excuse but I wonder how Hawthorn would have performed had it been one of its own much loved team mates who during the week was locked up in a Northern Territory gaol and facing serious criminal charges? Just another challenge for Mark Neeld and the football department.

Robbo would make a lot of our current players look 2nd rate . He was often a match winner . Most of our players of the last 5 years have been "match losers" . Are you happy with "bruise free" types ? At the very least Robbo had a go . More than I can say about quite a number on our list . Comparing Howe to Robbo is ridiculous in the extreme . What's he done so far that's so special ? I like Howe and I reckon he has a lot of potential but he's got a fair way to go to match Robbo's heights . In fact , if Howe turns out to be as good as Robbo I'll be very happy . Robbo played 228 games , kicked 428 goals and helped us get to many finals series' . Not too shabby . Have a bit of respect for a terrific past player . Cheers .

While Howe looks a good talent, it's insulting to put him above Robbo. I'd say it's a safe bet he'll never kick as many goals as Robbo ever did. He was a great servant for our club, is near the top of our club goal kickers list, and literally won us games off his own boot and helped us into finals series'. At this stage, Howe is a kid who has done nothing, so to even compare him to Robbo is insulting. It really irks me when supporters talk up current players and put down past players like Robbo, Yze, Bruce and the Daniher era etc. Those players took us to our best period of football in decades. The current batch have taken us to nearly our worst. While some of them look to be good talents, that's all they are at this point until they prove otherwise. It's been too long without finals, and it's getting tiresome supporting a weak on-field club. I'll always stick by them, but it's hard to get excited by them at present.

For all those hand wringers out wrist slashers out there how about you just take a breath. Yes it was a poor performance. But it IS just a glorified practice match. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get a reality check. For those talking about a change to game plan mid match etc- have a listen to Neeld's press conference and he sums it up perfectly- what is the point in throwing what they've spent 5 months working on out the window in the 3rd practice match of the year. How will the players learn? Neeld would have been disappointed with the effort and result however we have a team trying to learn a new game plan under a completely different coaching structure and approach up against the (arguably) best team in the comp playing their seasoned game plan with hardened mature bodies. Of course we were going to get done easily. It is the reversal of last week when many posters got ahead of themselves on the back of beating Collingwood. These games are all about testing out different players in different positions, teaching them game plans and positional tactics and what is expected. See Davis being left on Hale as a prime example- wouldn't happen if there were 4 Premiership points on the line. And we also need to play when the ridiculous last touch OOB rule is gone to get a greatr appreciation for how the game plan is working. I think it is great that we have played against both Collingwood and Hawthorn. The boys have played against two of the best teams in the competition. They will learn massive amounts out of the pre-season so far. The coaching staff will too. For those who say we are a long way off- guess what, you are stating the bleating obvious and if you expected different then you don't have a full appreciation of where we are at. We need another 2 or 3 pre-seasons in the gym. We need a good 18 months under the Neeld coaching staff to properly learn the game plan and style and then the plan B when plan A isn't working. It will be another up and down year but it is not all doom and gloom and some posters just need to take a step back and analyse the sitatuion more logically.

Whats an iPhone?

Look, the old hats or the more experienced guys had a go on showing their leadership capabilities and they were seriously flawed to the point they mutinied against the club. Hence 186. I'd much rather a leadership/captain that falters due to youth/inexperience then a group who drove a culture of underperformance, insipidness and was rudderless. Never forget Jack in our darkest hours committed to the club to 2015. He will have challenges, he will falter but he is a demon, he loves the place. He is the surest thing on our list that is likely to be an elite A grade talent so get behind him.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree 'oldman emubitter' . I've made an artform of never complaining about umpires ! Here's a question for you . Do you reckon the umpires have cost us a premiership in the last 47 years ? If the answer is no then you'll be getting closer to my mindset on umpires . To me , it's always the big picture . I believe if you're 5 goals better than the other side you never have to worry about the odd umpiring decision . I realise of course , that I might be in the minority with my level of thinking but that doesn't mean I'm wrong . In another post I've made mention of "home town" decisions and how that will never change . So it's pointless complaining . I don't believe in that "getting it off one's chest bit " either . I just hate excuses . We got well beaten last night and some want to complain about some umpiring decisions . It's just too ridiculous for words . By the way , when we play "interstate teams" at the MCG we quite often get the run of the umpires . Not many seem to notice . I do . Cheers .

I haven't watched the game yet, but it sure has been an interesting read here on Demonland. If many of us reflect on our main frustrations over the past 3 - 4 years, one has been our intensity at the contest and our lack of ability to physically stay in a contest. Against the Hawks last night we matched them in contested possession. In the midst of a big loss I reckon many are missing what a big achievement this is by Neeld adn the coaches. Think about it - we matched a top four side in contested possession! Once we can maintain this new standard of playing the contested ball well, we can then begin to develop the poise and polish as we spread and deliver forward. Our defence is still our strength and I like the way we set up forward. The coaching effort has to now bring some class and poise to our midfield. Grimes, Trengove, Jones (at times and it gets better each week), Watts all have this poise and class, and I reckon by about round 5 - 6, it will begin to emerge. Yes, at this stage, we definitely lack the A-grade midfielder but we are not too far away. One step at a time.

How can one post be so right and so wrong at the same time? No issue with your assessment of where we are at. I agree that Hawthorn were terrific to watch in the manner in which they worked off the ball, and their defined gameplan is way ahead of ours. But to give some significance to a NAB cup game and to go further and say that a pre-season game is the most revealing since 186 is just ridiculous. Do you really believe that Carlton won't score in a second half against Brisbane this year? Or lose by over 10 goals? Do you really think Geelong will have the first 9 kicked on them at Skilled against anyone during the season? How about Richmond? Will GWS get within 3 points of Collingwood? What did our win over Collingwood tell you? Are we better than them now? Or is that just NAB Cup? There is no doubt Hawthorn is ahead of us. But let's not get too excited about a pre-season game.

I think what hurts is seeing teams like Richmond and North taking positive strides forward, and genuinely knocking on the door of the Top 8. Teams that 2-3 years ago were at the same stage of development, or arguably behind in Richmond's case. It was a near full strength side last night. No hiding from it. We are so far away from being a contender it doesnt bare thinking. One positive is that we looked to have done alright in the most recent draft, so perhaps the rebuild has started in earnest. What concerns me is that great teams build a winning culture by having the senior players pass this down to the next generation. Who is mentoring the younger players in their specific roles now? Really? As for the new gameplan, playing hard contested ball is admirable but only if you know what to do with the footy once you win it. Bombing it long every time is a backward step. Several decades backward. I tell ya what, ANY footy fan who thinks they have it tough should live in the shoes of an MFC fan for a week.

as a good friend of mine said to me last night "the nab cup games dont matter, unless we win of course then it shows our inate awesomeness"

Anyone who says the result of this practice game is not important, has no understanding whatsoever, of AFL footy. Great clubs have pride in EVERY game they participate in , we still seem to accept not playing well in all practice games, using tired old excuses like.... we had so and so out, it's only a pre season game, we were experimenting, etc etc. CRAP! Only fools will accept yesterdays performance by most of our players. Most of our players were intimidated...totally. The MFC is still 2-3 years away from competing with the power clubs. The disposal issue has returned with a vengeance. Hawthorn are now the yardstick and they simply toyed with us in body and in mind. We have a very long way to go !!!!!

If any have watched Neeld's press conference it is blatantly obvious how much he hates losing and hated last nights performance. If that was his attitude to the press the boys would have been left in no uncertain terms where they went wrong with their attitude and application of game plan behind closed doors. It was a poor showing but give it some context. We started our best player from last week as a sub, subbed off our best player of the NAB cup with a dislocated finger, played Davis on Hale all game whilst our best backmen rested the second half. Neeld could have gone man on man to minimise the damage but stuck with the pressing zone as that is what will be our plan A and it needs to be learnt. I expect we will show consistency this year in beating the sides around our level however we do lack the polish required to challenge the better ones.

I try not to get worked up with the nab cup but im getting tired of sticking up for our team. When we are thinking they are starting to look good and doing all the right things its a new year we can only get better and the club says get on board we have done this and that. But then we have a lose like this again and all my passion and effort i put into the club feels like here we go again and i feel like s%%t. Melbourne have got to stop games like this we cant just say were young its o.k to go down by 120 points then win by 80 points we look like we are so weak to other clubs and i hate it because i dont stop loving this club i keep going and cheering and helping as much as i can. But this crap has got to stop you cant keep doing this to all your loyal fans i feel our team thinks its fine and has been breed like a bunch of women under bailey. Im sure neeld will save the younger guys but the old so called leaders will never change they dont even remember what winning is all about. Sorry guys i have had a few drinks and had my say and my cry but one thing is for sure we need to move some big names on to trade for some real mids and right now other then Clark.Watts,trengrove and frawley all names should be up for trade to get the job done god im drunk goodnight. P.S Thanks scully you little pr%%k

As long as it is on a decent ground (safe surface) it doesn't really matter, does it? It is another practice match: if we do well the optimists will take heart, if we do poorly the pessimists will slash their collective wrists.

Because their draftees have quality and experienced players to learn from. Ours haven't had that at all.

FFS it's NAB Cup an have you all forgotten last weeks game, people were talking Top 4, welcome to reality, we are a fair way off the Hawks but we are not as bad as some are stating. As I said in other posts you don't just flick a switch and turn things around, it will happen at some stage but really we have played 2 full games and as some even said in the game day post we did not play the style they have seen in training. Take a deep breath it's pre season when we try things the real season starts in three weeks time, then we can see were we are at.

We lack class. It's weird that we had all those draft picks and there's no real star power in the team. The good news is I think we have a great coachingpanel and hopefully the young blokes can be crafted into a good honest football team.

NAB cup game - no big deal. If we really cared would we have a/ Taken Frawley off b/ Left Davis on Hale for so long c/ Started Jones as the sub etc, etc, etc No need to panic. Chill guys its the NAB cup FCS

Our intensity at the man was not the same as last week but we won the contested possesion count and went down in the clearances by 3. As many have said we seriously lack midfield polish hence we get it and bombed it straight to where they had numbers. Clark, Jones and Howe the only positives for mine. Nicholson is not an AFL footballer, Bail appears to have gone backwards and I cant see Bate playing midfield for very long except at Casey. A bad loss against a good side in a game that means very little.

I found a great video that gives some insight into the Indigenous Law from Liam Jurrah's part of the country. It's only short (3 mins long), but it is really quite educational. Little things like this becoming more widely viewed would give a lot of Australians a greater appreciation of the extreme culture clash that can occur when White Law and Black Law meet.

CASEY PRACTICE MATCH REPORT by KC from Casey I must confess I've been out of the loop and interstate visiting family over the past few weeks but the big question I had in my mind when I walked into Casey Fields was why on earth was Sam Blease running around in a low key VFL practice match against Box Hill when he should have been preparing for the NAB Cupper against the real Hawks that night? The last I heard of Blease he was racing around in a Demons intraclub game, kicking goals and destroying backline opponents with his exquisite pace and poise but apparently, he was late for a team meeting and suspended from playing in the NAB Cup opening round on the Gold Coast. A week later he had limited game time in the second half and this week he was back at Casey for an 11am lift off. Yesterday, he was good. Not the team's best and it wasn't as if he made no mistakes in a scrappy game played in perfect conditions. Early in the game, he kicked on his right foot at times when the non preferred left would have been the better option and then in the second term, he slotted a gem of a left footer from the boundary that revived his team's fortunes when the Hawks should have had a bigger lead. He kicked the first goal of the third quarter (his team's only goal for the term), was always dangerous as a small up forward and was prepared to have a dip. Later in the evening, all of Melbourne's goals were scored by players no shorter than 192cm. There were no Demons at Etihad demonstrating the pace to break lines or vibrancy or energy to do something to break the iron tight grip the Hawks had on them. Blease is a must to come back into the team that plays Port Adelaide next week. He should be joined by Tom McDonald who marked strongly from the get go and was probably Casey's best player on the day although that's not saying much, such was the lacklustre standard of the game. Things started well with Casey doing all of the attacking and scoring the first two goals of the game before the visitors regrouped through their dominant big men. They held a slender one point lead at the first break, dominated most of the second quarter and looked to have taken a strong grip on the game before Blease and McDonald's late goals put the Scorps back in the game restoring the status quo to a 1 point Box Hill lead. James Strauss put in a fine effort in his first game back after that devastating break in the Carlton game last year. His strong tackling and accurate disposal stood out but the medical people obviously decreed that one half would be enough for this week and consigned him to the sheds. One would expect him to play a full game next week at Casey and then line up in the first official game against Williamstown. If all goes well, he might be back for the Demons in round 1. They will also relish having both Jack Grimes and he in defence. Another defender who stood out was Neville Jetta who looked in good nick down back after a shoulder operation. Sadly, he turned an ankle later in the game and looks like missing several weeks with more surgery. Blease restored the Casey lead early in the third quarter but the Scorps went back into their shell allowing the Hawks to dictate the terms and kick the next three goals. With his team trailing by 14 points, new coach Brett Lovett addressed his players calmly at the three quarter time huddle encouraging them to put in that extra effort in the final quarter. Lucas Cook had been disappointing for most of the game and was outbodied by the Hawk defenders but he came back well in the last kicking a goal and moving nicely around the ground. Similarly, Kelvin Lawrence had a quiet day but came good late with the goal that put Casey in front late in the game. Moments later, a goal to Will Petropoulos sealed a 7 point win over a flagging Box Hill. Rookie Jai Sheahan showed some promise with cool play in defence. He will be a work in progress for Lovett because of the depth of key position defenders at the Demons. The most puzzling aspect of the game was the form of Jordan Gysberts. Melbourne is crying out for players with a point of difference with the ability to be creative and different in the midfield. Gysberts is usually a prolific ball winner but yesterday, he simply couldn't get going. Perhaps he needs stronger players to enable himself to get going. The Scorpions have surprised by winning both practice games to date but one was in the wet against an undermanned Port Melbourne and yesterday's game was of a poor standard. The team's player losses have been well documented and there are no obvious replacements in standard. The team's VFL players were honest toilers but struggled at times with the set up which involved moving forward around the boundary. Evan Panozza played well in defence but Danny Nicholls was well off the pace after a best on ground performance in the wet last week. Long standing skipper Kyle Matthews who made a late comeback last year after suffering head injuries in a hotel assault two years ago, did not play. Casey Scorpions 2.2.14 4.3.27 5.5.35 9.8.62 Box Hill Hawks 2.3.15 4.4.28 7.7.49 8.7.55

You could say I'm a bit of a nerd, since I noticed the Survivor theme before I noticed the boobies. I could even tell you what season it's from (Marquesas).

I agree, why is this bloke who is allegedly one the fastest ever recruits over 20 metres never on a hard lead? Contested marks look great and granted, he has snared a few, but there is so much missing.

Can't say anything about us without bringing up Jack can he... Is he doing his old mate Mark a favour trying to light a fire under Jack's ass?

You may well be right DD what worries me is he the only one?

Yeah, but did you consider that maybe he KNEW it was early? Maybe he's not really that worried about wins/losses this season. Maybe what he wants to do is let Jack evolve as a player AND captain simultaneously... so that in 3-4 years the captaincy duties, and on-field leadership are something he has years of experience with, rather than something he need to ADD to his game in the way Green had to add it during his tenure. I reckon he knows there'll be rough days as you mention, where the pressure seems to mount and mount... but in BOTH Jacks' cases, they seem to thrive under pressure... Even if what you say happens this year, it might be a masterstroke. We won't know by the end of 2012... we'll know by the end of 2015-16.

Really? I'm damn convinced. Convinced that it's not a good idea, that is. Seriously, all the wraps are on Jack Watts pace off the mark, and yet I've hardly ever seen us hit him up on the lead. What's with that? Putting the ball on top of Jack Watts head is a dumb strategy, and I want it banned. Save that crap for when we're in a final and Mitch Clark is marking everything.

If he is arsey then he is the most consistent arsiest player I have seen in a long while. I think I prefer the word "freakish footballer"

Worse.

Blaming the umpires is just another excuse . I haven't seen enough decisions yet that I would question but then again I never blame umpires . I see it as a cop out . We lost the game last night all over the ground and on the scoreboard . We did win the contested possession count however , which was most pleasing . We're so far behind the top teams in so many aspects it's not funny . But ..................we're not on our own in that area and I reckon we can match it with the most of the other teams . Neeld has a lot of work to do . Last night I saw so many fundamentals not adhered to . We've been taught to play a certain way in the last 4-5 years and old habits die hard . A lot of our players don't know how to position themselves when they've got a chance for a free kick . And we often tackle in a very clumsy way . Again , Neeld has a lot of work to do . Umpires just call it as they see it . There's no bias against us . Cheers

I'm sorry but I just don't share your opinion of Robbo and hope that Howe doesn't fall into the same trap of going for the spectacular at the expense of the team thing. I think Robbo the entertainer took over from Robbo the footballer.

it does feel like we have been in rebuild mode for quite a while now. at this rate by the time we have rebuilt the kids will be retiring.

I don't think ppl are getting upset that we lost a NAB cup game, it's the way we lost. TBH I expected to lose, but I expected a competitive performance, and that it was not. From what I read most expected a loss but also expected a competitive effort too. Except for Howe, what I saw last night was a team of full of guys who have strengths, but who also have gaping deficiencies. The most alarming thing is the dumb footy that was played. We may have won the contested/clearance stats, but throwing the ball on the boot under pressure is dumb footy and coaching. The Lions killed us in the first half under pressure too. I see more painful times ahead as I expected, and I don't see a midfield incapable of competing. And I don't see to much at Casey to get me excited either. Gys, Blease and Tappy are to raw and inexperienced make a difference this year

Boys would have been flat. Hawthorn took it seriously. We are not very good. Three reasons for that result.

I am still confident that the current coaching staff can get the best out of this group in time. The question remains though, will the best from this group be enough? Probably not, so we will need to inject some more class via the drafting and/or trading in the next couple of years to have any hope of having a crack at a premiership. Right now, we are light years away. While I agree that NAB cup games cannot be ignored, I am still more concerned with seeing how the season unfolds for the club. I certainly do not expect us to beat teams like Hawthorn, Collingwood, and Geelong, but we need to be more competitive.

Strauss' comeback is fair dinkum unbelievable.

Hawthorn drafted to a plan. They drafted left footers for their elite foot disposal aswell as aggressive types that enjoyed playing hard tough football hence the unsociable tag . Then had the luxury of having players like Burgoyne , Gibson and Hale wanting to play for them. I still don't know what our drafting plan was or if there even was one.

and we would have had a priority pick the year after - well, a before first round instead of a post first round - so effectively it would have been watts, nik nat and blease instead of watts blease and strauss.....

Success breeds success. I know it's a bulltish line but when you've got blokes like hodge and Mitchell and franklin going around for a few years you automatically walk a little taller straight up. We will get there.

the worst thing is that you knew it was going to happen. we're just not good enough. it's interesting that so many people say we're lacking class, and that all those top round draft picks have been wasted. we're not the only ones; some clubs just draft better. the big problem is development, and hopefully that's something that neeld and company will address. he's clearly not impressed by our drafting - two top 15 picks are playing at casey, watts just wants to dispose of the ball as soon as he gets it, and sylvia is just a dumb footballer. our high-end drafting has been shocking for years. morton disappoints or is injured as well.

Hawthorn have been playing together for several seasons under the same coach. They fielded a strong side today. I'm not trying to make excuses here but the hawks played with confidence today. Their skills were great and all of their players performed well and as a team. I personally would like to thank them for the reality check. Our lads have a considerable gap to close between where that are now and where they need to be to challenge for the top 8.

For me, it's not that we lost, its how we lost!! Another thrashing, I'm over the 10 goal and upwards losses. The way we are over come by players with skill is disappointing. The way we struggle to get the ball is the same, disappointing. We have had so many great/very good draft picks and all I see is a group of guys on the field full of late draft picks. Nicho. Crouch. Magner. Moloney. McKenzie. JB. Sellar. Jamar. Davey. Fitzpatrick. Tynan. Etc. I'm not questioning the ability of all these guys (some, not all), but I thought the idea of bottoming out was to get guys who were talented with skills and who are at the top of their game! I just don't see it. If the new game plan is to throw the ball on the foot, kick it forward,under pressure, then we are stuffed. I have seen in training guys running the ball via handball at the press to get a player free to kick the ball long to advantage. I don't see that in the NAB cup. I'm also worried that our press is too centered down the wing and flanks. A club like cats and hawks will use the middle to beat our press. To easy to coach against. A simple game plan with guys without rounded skills (low draft picks) is easy to beat. I'm just saying that with the pain we have endured over the last 5 yrs I expect to see footballers with skill, athletic ability, footy smarts and ball getting ability, I just don't see it. I'm worried for the future as much as this season

Just got back from the game. Very disappointing, 1. Umpiring was a disgrace. 3 goals gifted to the Hawks for ducking heads. Frees given to Hawks when the ball went out of bounds off a Hawks player. Ruck infringements all day - Jamar and Fitz were monstered. 2. Hawks have a very impressive zone and they follow it to the letter. We could not get a string of possessions all day. We were harried out of the ball time and time again. 3. Our kick ins were OK - the first kick but then it was totally static. 4. Our midfield was atrocious. 5. The Hawks possessed the ball brilliantly. Hardly stuffed up short passes and when they did there was no pressure on them. Us couldn't be more opposite. Every kick was hurried or a long bomb to a contest. 6. Don't know what the i50's were but I am guessing 60 to 15. Appalling I am a big critic of Davey but he was far from our worst. Thought he chased and tried hard. Missed a couple of sitters which he should have got. Zero confidence. In fact all our players tried but just weren't good enough. Clark was terrific and gave a great contest every time. Stuffed up a few balls when we had position and/or extra men. Jones was gang tackled every time he got the pill. Howe is a smart footballer. Tynan tried hard but is small and was outbodied We didn't have a player in the top 10 on the ground IMO. Interested to see what the coaches thought of proceedings We will get smashed by West Coast in Rd 2. Put the house on it.

Hawthorn were awesome today/night and should be the flag favourites, they will win it I have no doubt.

maybe we could play williamstown or werribee?

I noticed some posts moderated. I think these threads should be locked as charges have been laid and any discussion about jurrah at melbourne is likely to touch on the case. Also the fact that the case is not mentioned in nt press means we can discuss here on the site and elsewhere ie hsun is rubbish. As mentioned they have the internet , cable tv etc in the nt . Also talking about the case may lead to defamatory comments . We dont want this site taken down and the webmaster sued. My 2 cents worth