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"We aren't great at any phase of the game"

The Taciturn Demon
in Melbourne Demons

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7 hours ago, Rednblueriseing said:

Is this fixable in 1 off season or are we delusional thinking we can make the 8 with aging stars ?

Yes, it is fixable.  For a week or two, we were in third with a percentage of around 127.4%.

Petracca and Oliver. 26 and 27, were absent in mind and/or body throughout the season.  This makes Langford particularly exciting.

May was still good but not as dominant as past years.

Our failures were getting well behind and coming home with a rush but often failing.  Goodwin would have the expertise to analyse this but he may be set in his ways.  The Board should not allow this and should intrude as far as necessary.

BTW, my pet theory was the team needs more height and bulk up forward even if it were a big log such as Schache or Fullarton.

 

 

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    5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

    Brisbane nearly won the flag in 2023 and finished top 4 for the best part of 5 or so years despite being poor in transition defending before it all came together enough late last year.

    Geelong 2022 were heavily reliant on Dangerfield winding back the clock to really be a strong midfield contest side.

    Brisbane have a heck of a list even if they just lost their most talented player. Sydney have a star studded midfield. Hawthorn are coming in a hurry. Freo are stacked. But otherwise the comp seems more open than it has been for a while so you don’t have to be near perfect.

    The concern is to reach attacking competence with the current list won’t be easy. And it will open us up defensive when our defensive systems have long been based on keeping the ball in tight and good structure.

    Who did they lose?

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    30 minutes ago, biggestred said:

    Yes and they don't win that semi without him. 

    Good on him for retiring and making the league slightly fairer. Hopefully it offsets their drafting of another potential 2nd year norm smith winner. 🤦‍♂️

    Edited by John Demonic

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    Love Goodwin’s honesty.

    If all of us are realistic, we’re an 11th to 14th side with an abundance of question marks in all 3 phases- defence, midfield, and attack. 

    Edited by Bring-Back-Powell

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    I mean the truth is we got smacked in the middle, especially in the 2nd half of the season. This means our backline was under siege and our fwd line was limited. 

    A fit trac and clarry go a LONG way to fixing this on their own. 

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    16 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

    We have been playing static 60s style football for a while. Mark then go back & take your kick.

    May kicks out to his left to Max 99% of the time.

    That’s actually one part of our plan I’m not too worried about. Kicks are deep and avoid the corridor = low risk on the turnover. Other teams began to copy

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    I take it as contest, defence and offence which are the “3 phases of the game” that Goodwin often refers to. I am glad he has said we aren’t great in any areas and he is right, fact is we have gone backwards. 
     I think this club review could be the best thing that has happened to the club and may help save Goodwin from himself. Our game plan and style especially our ball movement was slow, boring and borderline unwatchable at times this year.The lack of solution to the mid to forward connection and functionality of our forwardline over the last few years has held us back. Granted we have had some personnel issues but I am firmly of the belief that our issues were more around method because I still think we had enough talent on our list to be better. 
     A few home truths have clearly been told during the reviews and I am incredibly buoyed by the off season moves made so far. I love the move of Chaplin to forwards and also the addition of Bassett and Jones to the coaching group. I think that we have drafted incredibly well with the quality of players and the areas we have drafted for. 
     I am loving the training reports from the Demonland regular track watchers for which I am grateful for that say in match simulation there is a focus on quick ball movement, honouring the switch of play, kicking to advantage of the forwards who are working on their leading and running patterns. Love the addition of Campbell that knows his role is purely as a back up to the Goat in Gawn. It appears that our players are having more clarity around their roles and hopefully we get back to being a more selfless team. 
    We have been too defensively minded and conservative, I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water but if we can put more emphasis and focus on putting the ball through the big sticks then defence will take care of itself. 
     I thank Brad Green and Darren Shand for the review because it is the kick in the [censored] that we needed. I have confidence that we will see change and I think we will do some serious damage in September next year because of it. 

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    21 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

    Goodwin. 

    At the AGM in his interview on stage

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    6 hours ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

    Our game plan and style especially our ball movement was slow, boring 

    #Demonland myths

    #I wonder at times if I'm watching the same game

    I agree we were borderline unwatchable at times this year - when we couldn't effectively implement the fast transition game we were trying to implement or defend it. 

    The latter was one of two most important reasons (the other being fitness) we regularly had opponents scoring 100 plus points and/or beating us by big margins up for the first time since 2021.

    Ironically, we were often at most effective when reverting back to our slow methodical, predictable, clearance focused and down the line game plan.

    Edited by binman

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    13 minutes ago, binman said:

    #Demonland myths

    #I wonder at times if I'm watching the same game

    I agree we were borderline unwatchable at times this year - when we couldn't effectively implement the fast transition game we were trying to implement or defend it. 

    The latter one of two most important reasons (the other being fitness) we regularly had opponents scoring 100 plus points and/or beating us by big margins up for the first time since 2021.

    Ironically, we were often at most effective when reverting back to our slow methodical, predictable, clearance focused and down the line game plan.

    Isn’t that the point? We could only be ‘in’ games when we played an unwatchable, unsustainable to win big games, style. 

    I applauded the attempts to get that going but it was sputtering and not universally embraced across the team. Give it to Judd and Trent and we were off to the races, but nothing slowed us down more than if Lever and May got the footy. And that is damning on a level isn’t it? Anyway, I hope and expect Chaplin to get them all on one page like he has previously.

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    56 minutes ago, binman said:

    #Demonland myths

    #I wonder at times if I'm watching the same game

    I agree we were borderline unwatchable at times this year - when we couldn't effectively implement the fast transition game we were trying to implement or defend it. 

    The latter one of two most important reasons (the other being fitness) we regularly had opponents scoring 100 plus points and/or beating us by big margins up for the first time since 2021.

    Ironically, we were often at most effective when reverting back to our slow methodical, predictable, clearance focused and down the line game plan.

    Each to their own on the slow and methodical. I will admit it worked for us in the game against Geelong in the wet which surprised me as I personally don’t think slow and methodical suits us as we don’t have enough elite kicks in the team. We are starting to draft a few which is great going forward. I think with faster ball movement, changing the angles and better structure ahead of the ball we will see some success. I get the feeling we will see this in 2025 and I am excited to see it. 

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    13 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    Love Goodwin’s honesty.

    If all of us are realistic, we’re an 11th to 14th side with an abundance of question marks in all 3 phases- defence, midfield, and attack. 

    Godwin's honesty is about a point in time, season 2024...last season where we finished 14th.

    Now 'BBP', you are a renowned glass half empty type but I doubt Goodwin sees us performing the same way in season 2025.

    If we get a clear run at it there is no reason for us not to finish top 4 and be in the running for another flag.

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    I want to be optimistic, but every club can improve. I’m sure every fan site is full of the reasons why their team will be better in 2025.

    So realistically…

    Eleven teams are starting 2025 in front of us.

    Some have had a better draft result (eg Brisbane).

    Some have players coming back from injury (eg Carlton, Collingwood).

    Some recruited stars from other clubs (eg Collingwood).

    Some had great years but just fell short (eg GWS, Hawthorn).

    Some have young guns who are ahead of ours (eg Geelong)

    And of those below us…

    One has a gift-from-heaven 2025 draw (ie, the GC Suns).

    One failed to meet expectations in 2024 despite a good list, and can be expected to bounce back (ie, Adelaide).


    Help!

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    A cry for 'Help' @Fanatique Demon ?

    Allow me to assist.  See Blue comments:

    So realistically…

    Eleven teams are starting 2025 in front of us.

    Some have had a better draft result (eg Brisbane).  Langford is a pretty good result.

    Some have players coming back from injury (eg Carlton, Collingwood).  Petracca and Oliver say 'hi'

    Some recruited stars from other clubs (eg Collingwood).  Houston? 👎

    Some had great years but just fell short (eg GWS, Hawthorn).  Give you GWS, Hawks, yeah but nah

    Some have young guns who are ahead of ours (eg Geelong) Ouch!  Windsor, JvR. McVee, Kozzie etc ??

    And of those below us…

    One has a gift-from-heaven 2025 draw (ie, the GC Suns).  Our draw isn't too shabby!

    One failed to meet expectations in 2024 despite a good list, and can be expected to bounce back (ie, Adelaide).  Ditto the Dees

    Hope that cheers you up a little!

    We have the players.  If coaches bring and teach a more effective and versatile method we will be playing finals and imv go deep in Sept.

    Edited by Lucifers Hero

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    1 minute ago, Lucifers Hero said:

    Some have had a better draft result (eg Brisbane).  Langford is a pretty good result.

     

    I thin by the end of the season we might be hearing 'How did Lindsay get to pick 11', what a steal. 

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    2 hours ago, binman said:

    #Demonland myths

    #I wonder at times if I'm watching the same game

    I agree we were borderline unwatchable at times this year - when we couldn't effectively implement the fast transition game we were trying to implement or defend it. 

    The latter one of two most important reasons (the other being fitness) we regularly had opponents scoring 100 plus points and/or beating us by big margins up for the first time since 2021.

    Ironically, we were often at most effective when reverting back to our slow methodical, predictable, clearance focused and down the line game plan.

    It’s not unreasonable to say results were often worse with the new game plan than the old one.

    But the evidence from 22, 23 and even 24 (port, GWS games) was that it was falling short against quality opponents.

    Plus it was hurting crowds and I even think hurting players - both physically and with skill development.

    The club is right to continue to push towards a more attacking and spread out game plan.

    I don’t know what the myth is? If people think we didn’t try last year to change that’s a myth. But it’s also fair to see that we regressed at various times through the year and probably played the old game plan about half the time. I do think it was mostly out of necessity and I hope we don’t have to do that this year.

     

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    8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

    I don’t know what the myth is? If people think we didn’t try last year to change that’s a myth. But it’s also fair to see that we regressed at various times through the year and probably played the old game plan about half the time. I do think it was mostly out of necessity and I hope we don’t have to do that this year.

    Agree, 2024 felt very 2019 at times, but with more light at the end of the tunnel given where we've been (ie we know we can win the flag and finish top 4 multiple times).

    2019 saw us try to shift things on the hop and play the 2018 style (and couldn't due to personnel/fitness) and try to tinker with our press and zone on the run. Then 2020, it was slow progress, but we started to hit our straps in the second half of that season with the zone, only to mentally switch off at crucial moments.

    But come 2025, many of the guys on our list (it's conceivable 16 premiership players will make up our best 22), with some promising young guns making up those remaining spots. So I hope we can make faster progress than 2020 with gun experienced players now. And with the mental side of the game nurtured by Crowe and Shand.

    Edited by Adam The God

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    The slow and boring game style of 2024 was a #myth..

    I've seen it all now.. lol

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    It’s very encouraging that the Club has fessed up on many levels that 2023-24 were just not acceptable 

    I wish things had happened earlier, but they are certainly happening now 

    It will be a very different Team in 2025

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    It’s very encouraging that the Club has fessed up on many levels that 2023-24 were just not acceptable 

    I wish things had happened earlier, but they are certainly happening now 

    It will be a very different Team in 2025

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    We're good at turning the game into a dull scrap.
    Very good.

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    In any elite competition/business etc the margins between top ..middle & bottom are generally minuscule. Take our last season ..our injury list impacted some

    of our top players. They were replaced by our up & coming players but not elite players. Still the margins in our losing games were minimal  & flip a couple of those results and we make top 8. Positives from our disadvantages of last year those young players got games & AFL experience..we gained another  2 top 10picks.. & at this stage of the preseason we are travelling pretty well.    If luck goes our way (in the uncontrollables) we can flip the results pretty quickly. We’re training well ..our list is pretty fit ..we just need what every team can’t control ..a bit of luck 

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