Season 2024 Over for Clayton Oliver

[Demonsterative 3,015]

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Absolutely not the point I was making but okay..

I’m confused with this point t too 

 

🤔

[dazzledavey36 52,603]

3 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Ok so what is the point? 

It’s very clear that we hold the power given both of their contracts. If Goodwin is saying they’re staying, it’s because as senior coach he knows we will not trade them regardless of what offers come our way for them. 

I don’t know how many more ways the club can say they’re not leaving. 

The point is that a lot can play out between now and October. Things change quickly such such personal circumstances. If Oliver came to the club and requested a fresh start for the benefit of his mental health then there's no doubt the club would certainly assess the options. 

The Jesse Hogan point was he was also contracted for a few years and was dealing with a lot of personal issues with his family and mental health. Goodwin was asked around September 2018 and categorically denied he would be traded. Well didn't that all change..

You can absolutely believe what you want to believe from Goodwins presser because of course he's going to play a straight bat.

Had he come out and said that there are no guarantees that Oliver remains with the club then imagine the media going to town and the significance of the story.

Look at the way Ken Hickley has handled the Houston talk the past few weeks. All Hinkley has been saying about Houston is "he's contracted player and we expects to stay" stock standard coaching 101 in how to play a straight bat to the media and not fuel the fire. Yet all the talk is that he's absolutely set on coming back to Victoria. 

I'm not saying he will be traded at all purely because I don't think a club will take on his huge contract and salary, but if an opposition club came and dangled an offer that would be too good to refuse for the footy club, then absolutely, you'd be pretty stupid to think that the footy club wouldn't look at it.

I definitely think Petracca absolutely stays, and the club will be he'll bent in him staying but I think there is still a bit to play out regarding Oliver. 

[Nascent 8,585]

51 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Jay Clark think there's still a big watch on Clayton Oliver this off season even though Goodwin stated that he won't be traded.

He expects Geelong to dangle the carrot for Oliver and Sam Landsberger also stated that he's always thought Geelong would come after him.

Indulging this possibility, I still fail to see how Geelong get it done. Geelong notoriously don't pay big money to star players as part of their salary cap management. Clayton is on 1 - 1.3 million per season for another 6 years.

On top of that, Geelong as it stands will only have a mid to late first round pick and that's earmarked for Bailey Smith. Not sure what trade capital they expect to get it done. 

Unless we desperately want him out and pay 500k per year for 6 years and accept a future 1st or current 2nd round pick, just can't see it happening.

[Ollie fan 2,956]

6 hours ago, gs77 said:

Just think, he could have had it fixed properly at the time rather than endure 5 months of battering, and he'd have probably been back on the park months ago.

It was fixed. A plate was put in that had to be removed after 12-14 weeks - which I understand has not happened. But playing with a plate in your dominant hand can't be much fun.

[Jaded No More 67,469]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The point is that a lot can play out between now and October. Things change quickly such such personal circumstances. If Oliver came to the club and requested a fresh start for the benefit of his mental health then there's no doubt the club would certainly assess the options. 

The Jesse Hogan point was he was also contracted for a few years and was dealing with a lot of personal issues with his family and mental health. Goodwin was asked around September 2018 and categorically denied he would be traded. Well didn't that all change..

You can absolutely believe what you want to believe from Goodwins presser because of course he's going to play a straight bat.

Had he come out and said that there are no guarantees that Oliver remains with the club then imagine the media going to town and the significance of the story.

Look at the way Ken Hickley has handled the Houston talk the past few weeks. All Hinkley has been saying about Houston is "he's contracted player and we expects to stay" stock standard coaching 101 in how to play a straight bat to the media and not fuel the fire. Yet all the talk is that he's absolutely set on coming back to Victoria. 

I'm not saying he will be traded at all purely because I don't think a club will take on his huge contract and salary, but if an opposition club came and dangled an offer that would be too good to refuse for the footy club, then absolutely, you'd be pretty stupid to think that the footy club wouldn't look at it.

I definitely think Petracca absolutely stays, and the club will be he'll bent in him staying but I think there is still a bit to play out regarding Oliver. 

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. 

I am sticking to what I know to be true, just as I’ve said all year that Clarry was battling fitness and injuries and got abused for making excuses for him. 

As a side note, anyone who has or knows someone with ADHD knows that a change of routine or scenery, would actually not be in any way beneficial. Routine and structure is very important, it’s a big part of why Clarry has played all year.

The club is his family, and despite what the media says about us, the club has done an amazing job helping him with his mental health struggles. If they didn’t want him to stay they wouldn’t have bothered, they would have traded him last year when his value was much higher. Instead they chose to rehabilitate him. 

Anyway, I would be truly shocked if he was elsewhere next year. In fact, if he left I would donate $100 to a charity if your choice. Win win. 

[dazzledavey36 52,603]

24 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Indulging this possibility, I still fail to see how Geelong get it done. Geelong notoriously don't pay big money to star players as part of their salary cap management. Clayton is on 1 - 1.3 million per season for another 6 years.

On top of that, Geelong as it stands will only have a mid to late first round pick and that's earmarked for Bailey Smith. Not sure what trade capital they expect to get it done. 

Unless we desperately want him out and pay 500k per year for 6 years and accept a future 1st or current 2nd round pick, just can't see it happening.

See I don't know whether Smith is actually worth a first round pick?

Has just missed a whole year of footy and prior to that he hadn't achieved anything of note to be worthy of a first round pick. I even had to go in and check out and special accolades or awards but there's nothing except winning best first year award at the doggies.

To me he's worth an early 2nd round pick.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,283]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

See I don't know whether Smith is actually worth a first round pick?

Has just missed a whole year of footy and prior to that he hadn't achieved anything of note to be worthy of a first round pick. I even had to go in and check out and special accolades or awards but there's nothing except winning best first year award at the doggies.

To me he's worth an early 2nd round pick.

Smith has amazing endurance and can find the Sherrin, but his ball use is some Of the worst you will see

[dazzledavey36 52,603]

9 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Smith has amazing endurance and can find the Sherrin, but his ball use is some Of the worst you will see

Yes which doesn't justify a first round pick imo.

[DeeSpencer 24,634]

1 hour ago, Nascent said:

Indulging this possibility, I still fail to see how Geelong get it done. Geelong notoriously don't pay big money to star players as part of their salary cap management. Clayton is on 1 - 1.3 million per season for another 6 years.

On top of that, Geelong as it stands will only have a mid to late first round pick and that's earmarked for Bailey Smith. Not sure what trade capital they expect to get it done. 

Unless we desperately want him out and pay 500k per year for 6 years and accept a future 1st or current 2nd round pick, just can't see it happening.

To me, despite the entirely different circumstances Oliver is exactly where Grundy was. 

Long expensive contract, injured, questions over his application and overall value when healthy.

And Grundy was a second round pick with the Pies paying 300k a year.

We signed Clarry a year ahead of free agency and long term, surely there was a discount for doing that. I really do hope it’s in the 900-1m range not more. 

So we burn 300k and take unders with the pick but we get 600k and the pick which could be 2 good players.

Obviously that’s far from ideal and the best result is we get the real Clayton Oliver on field and happy Clarry off field, but it’s a plan B if we have to use it.

[grazman 7,239]

7 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

As a side note, anyone who has or knows someone with ADHD knows that a change of routine or scenery, would actually not be in any way beneficial.

I think that’s a gross generalization - particularly where the routine or scenery is not or is no longer productive. 

[binman 41,894]

9 hours ago, Nascent said:

Indulging this possibility, I still fail to see how Geelong get it done. Geelong notoriously don't pay big money to star players as part of their salary cap management. Clayton is on 1 - 1.3 million per season for another 6 years.

On top of that, Geelong as it stands will only have a mid to late first round pick and that's earmarked for Bailey Smith. Not sure what trade capital they expect to get it done. 

Unless we desperately want him out and pay 500k per year for 6 years and accept a future 1st or current 2nd round pick, just can't see it happening.

The cats would also have to triple their player welfare spending - imagine stengle and clarry in the same team!

On stengle, it's crazy how him completely passing out cold in night club in season has got so little attention.

I mean bloke's got form and he get so hammered he collapses in public and there's crickets.

I mean, that's probably a good thing, but it's hard not feel the media pick and choose who they will denigrate.

[Roost it far 7,311]

1 hour ago, binman said:

The cats would also have to triple their player welfare spending - imagine stengle and clarry in the same team!

On stengle, it's crazy how him completely passing out cold in night club in season has got so little attention.

I mean bloke's got form and he get so hammered he collapses in public and there's crickets.

I mean, that's probably a good thing, but it's hard not feel the media pick and choose who they will denigrate.

Is it just me or does Kane Cornes really dislike Melbourne? He’ll take a swipe at any opportunity. He’s been hammering Oliver since last year. There’s a point where the media need to be held to account. Yes he’s a highly paid sportsman but he’s also a troubled young kid. The balance of reporting is not there and never has been in relation to Oliver, throw in the ever present gambling ads and the AFL and it’s media pack are still along way off decent citizens. 

[Kent 2,850]

18 hours ago, binman said:

I think we can assume we did so because it was the best thing for Clarry.

How could playing a player in agony with significant injuries be "Good for Clarry"

Our injury management in my view this year has been appalling and smells of desperation

[Colm 1,912]

I maybe had a different take than others on Goody’s presser yesterday. He didn’t convince me that there isn’t a problem with Trac at the min- side stepped it a bit and contradicted himself as did Max. 
 

But I did like how he reported on Clarry. Seemed very genuine with his response.  Seems the club are very happy and proud of where Clarry is currently from a personal point of view and had no doubts that he will be playing for us next year. 
His injuries go a long way to explaining his form this year a hopefully now that his season is finished early he will have more than enough time to fully heal before a massive preseason. 

[binman 41,894]

4 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Is it just me or does Kane Cornes really dislike Melbourne? He’ll take a swipe at any opportunity. He’s been hammering Oliver since last year. There’s a point where the media need to be held to account. Yes he’s a highly paid sportsman but he’s also a troubled young kid. The balance of reporting is not there and never has been in relation to Oliver, throw in the ever present gambling ads and the AFL and it’s media pack are still along way off decent citizens. 

Some balance wouldn't go astray either.

Anyone who has faced the sort of challenges clarry has faced, or knows someone who has, knows its a very hard road to get back on track.

Clarry deserves a lot of credit for doing the hard yards, on and off field.

On field, despite what even some dees fans claim, he has been one of our better players this season - and our best, most consistent mid. I'll bet dollars to donuts he is top 10 in the bluey.

He deserves credit for that alone.

He deserves further credit for backing up week after week and putting up with slings and arrows, some fired by dees 'supporters', being relentlesly physically and verbally targeted by opponents and seemingly not able to win a single free kick from the umpires.

And most impressive of all is the mental fortitude to back up week after week and try his guts out knowing it's impossible to play to a level anywhere near his brilliant best.

I mean this a player with a record that perhaps a small handful of dees players could come close to matching in the 166 year history of the club. 

And despite not being able to play his best footy he has not once dropped his head.

It would be great if the media could at least note that. 

As for dees 'supporters' who don't get that, well....

Edited August 15 by binman

[binman 41,894]

14 minutes ago, Kent said:

How could playing a player in agony with significant injuries be "Good for Clarry"

Our injury management in my view this year has been appalling and smells of desperation

If you don't understand why, there's not much point me explaining it - particularly given it had literally been explained dozens of times by multiple posters.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

[Jaded No More 67,469]

3 hours ago, grazman said:

I think that’s a gross generalization - particularly where the routine or scenery is not or is no longer productive. 

You’re right, it is a gross generalization. So is suggesting that someone who’s been incredibly successful in an environment for 6+ years, suddenly needs to leave that environment.

 

As fans we can only judge a player on their on field output. Many are equating Clarry’s on field “failure” this season, with an off field failure. 
But you don’t need to take my word for it, just listen to Goody yesterday on how well Clarry is doing off the field. This is not in spite of, but because of the club and the support it put around Clarry. 
If Clarry had a brilliant season on the field, and we know why he didn’t, would anyone suggest he needs a change of environment?

Geelong is undoubtedly a brilliantly run club. But even this brilliantly managed club had a player, who they just re-signed mind you, get taken away in an ambulance from a nightclub a few weeks ago. 
Given the intense media attention Clarry has received over the last 12 months, I can’t see how the fishbowl environment of Geelong would be a better fit. 
Not to mention that Geelong has nothing to give us. 

Edited August 14 by Jaded No More

[Kent 2,850]

12 minutes ago, binman said:

If you don't understand why, there's not much point me explaining it - particularly given it had literally been explained dozens of times by multiple posters.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Your right I dont get it!

[Nascent 8,585]

13 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

See I don't know whether Smith is actually worth a first round pick?

Has just missed a whole year of footy and prior to that he hadn't achieved anything of note to be worthy of a first round pick. I even had to go in and check out and special accolades or awards but there's nothing except winning best first year award at the doggies.

To me he's worth an early 2nd round pick.

It will be interesting to see what Smith gets valued at. I had always presumed it would take a mid-late first but perhaps not the case.

[Jaded No More 67,469]

7 minutes ago, Nascent said:

It will be interesting to see what Smith gets valued at. I had always presumed it would take a mid-late first but perhaps not the case.

Supporters would be ok to get rid of Clarry, but happy to bring party boy Smith in? 

How is Smith going to be better for our culture? 

[Nascent 8,585]

Just now, Jaded No More said:

Supporters would be ok to get rid of Clarry, but happy to bring party boy Smith in? 

How is Smith going to be better for our culture? 

Hell no. What it would cost Geelong. I don't want him here.

[DeeZone 8,905]

4 hours ago, binman said:

The cats would also have to triple their player welfare spending - imagine stengle and clarry in the same team!

On stengle, it's crazy how him completely passing out cold in night club in season has got so little attention.

I mean bloke's got form and he get so hammered he collapses in public and there's crickets.

I mean, that's probably a good thing, but it's hard not feel the media pick and choose who they will denigrate.

You have to remember Binman that Dangerfield said it was an error of judgement ( don’t be mean to our player).!!

[dazzledavey36 52,603]

31 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Supporters would be ok to get rid of Clarry, but happy to bring party boy Smith in? 

How is Smith going to be better for our culture? 

No one has suggested they want him here..

Our discussion is based around Geelongs interest in him.

[Pennant St Dee 12,640]

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Is it just me or does Kane Cornes really dislike Melbourne? He’ll take a swipe at any opportunity. He’s been hammering Oliver since last year. There’s a point where the media need to be held to account. Yes he’s a highly paid sportsman but he’s also a troubled young kid. The balance of reporting is not there and never has been in relation to Oliver, throw in the ever present gambling ads and the AFL and it’s media pack are still along way off decent citizens. 

Kane picks low hanging fruit and currently that is us. Earlier in the year it was Bevo and North.

In March it was the Hawks tanking because they offloaded O’Meara and Mitchell

On Tuesday he said we were along with Richmond a club who he saw no real upside for the next four to five years 

Yesterday he was saying how many good players under 22 we had and that a few good decisions could turn everything around quickly 

Kane on a daily basis opens his mouth without thinking or without giving any consideration to his previous comments 

[Lexinator 1,486]

On 14/08/2024 at 10:49, chook fowler said:

season over for Chook Fowler

What operation are you having, Mr Fowler?