Oliver Trade Rumours

[Docs Demons 1,792]

2 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

A bloke called Jesse Hogan...

I think you will find he wanted to go home back to WA and we DID NOT force him out.

[titan_uranus 25,057]

4 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

A bloke called Jesse Hogan...

Who wanted to go back home for a number of (valid) personal reasons?

That's not an example of us being "ruthless". That's an example of us being relatively compassionate, to be honest, which is almost the opposite of this whole "we have to be ruthless with our list" concept.

[Whispering_Jack 30,949]

1 hour ago, speed demon said:

You're right, it doesn't work like that. I come from an athletics background. An athlete can stay in peak racing phase for about 4-8 weeks. In the past week we have seen the big names in athletics start coming into peak form for the Olympics in 3 weeks (e.g. Faith Kepyegon's 1500m WR and Jess Hull's 1500m Aus record). Stay up for too long and the aerobic fitness base degrades and performance drops. Need to start the cycle again.

But don't trust an internet random's comments. The DL interview with Selwyn Griffith is so insightful. He describes how the players are unable to do enough training during the season to maintain their fitness. Hence the importance of an excellent pre-season and why Oliver is not going to get back to - and sustain -  pre-hamstring injury form this season. 

Just as an aside, Jessica Hull went on a week later to break the 2000m world record (an event that’s not all that often run but a world record is a world record).

[Adam The God 30,541]

11 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Who wanted to go back home for a number of (valid) personal reasons?

That's not an example of us being "ruthless". That's an example of us being relatively compassionate, to be honest, which is almost the opposite of this whole "we have to be ruthless with our list" concept.

That's fair.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,168]

Is Oliver leaving footy to start a band?

[bing181 9,348]

4 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Or doesn’t it work like that?

It doesn't work like that. In fact, the longer the season goes, the more players like Oliver (and Petty) will struggle.

"Players were divided into three equal training load groups based on total distance accumulated during pre-season.

Results: Players in the high training load (HTL) group performed more relative total and high-speed distance in matches compared with the moderate and low training load groups, with the differences becoming greater as the season progressed."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326856433_The_influence_of_pre-season_training_loads_on_in-season_match_activities_in_professional_Australian_football_players

[bing181 9,348]

3 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Which really begs the question why play him without doing a mini preseason at the start of the year? Why play someone you know is not fit enough and won’t get any fitter during the season? Doesn’t make sense to me. 

Firstly because I suspect that he's "fit enough" albeit not at optimal fitness. But he can get through games.

But I also suspect that one of the reasons he was brought straight in is because being part of the on-field team plus the routine of an AFL season is much better for his mental health. His mental/well-being demons started with that long period of rehab last year and the kind of isolation from the group it brought. 

[Willmoy1947 4,170]

If i had to judge a player upping his performance during the course of the season, i would not hesitate to say that in the last three weeks Oliver has increased his work rate quite obviously.

All i hope for is that he keeps at that rate for the rest of the year. Hopefully he will be supported by us for doing just that.

Also i don't think that the media should be allowed to cavort around, unimpeded, doing their job, myrrs.

Their job is to report on football 

 Decent people did it for years, and to let them get away with muck raking is not my style.  I move on.

[rjay 25,202]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Is Oliver leaving footy to start a band?

Joining the army...

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,065]

The only reason the club would be prepared to trade him is the rise of Trent Rivers into the midfield which simply means that Trac replaces Clarry in the midfield.

But for Kane to suggest that we trade Clarry AND our first round draft pick is a bit of an insult. That’s right, we trade our first round pick, not receiving a first round pick.

[rumpole 534]

The likes of Cornes, Morris, Sam McClure are the equivalent in journalism of the American “yellow press” who use eye-catching headlines and sensationalized exaggerations for increased sales. They are characterized by exaggerated headlines, unverified claims, partisan agendas, and a focus on topics like crime, scandal, sports, and violence. In Britain and here, it’s called the “tabloid press” and these days it’s equivalent can also be found on Tik Tok and other social media platforms. These guys are television’s equivalent of clickbait.

So yes, they are doing their job but it’s a low grade of journalism that relies on speculation and innuendo, often has little regard for the truth and rarely does any fact checking which is why this story clearly deserves the contempt many here have heaped upon the above trio in this thread. 

They’re doing their job which is to attract ratings from a mindless public.

[BDA 22,957]

Has the silly season has started early this year? mid July and multiple trade threads on the go.

Re Clarry the only way he gets traded is if he steps out of line again behaviourally. that doesn't appear to be the case. no doubt he is not producing to the level his contract size warrants but he has plenty of credits in the bank. Let's see how he goes next year with a full preseason. I'm sure we'll see the old Clarry back again (as long as he stays on the straight and narrow)

Re these "journalists", they write it because we click on it. We drive their behaviour not the other way around. direct your outrage at the punters who gobble this stuff up.

 

[Roost it far 8,864]

13 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

I don’t pretend to understand fitness very well but I would have tHought his fitness after 3 months of footy will have improved to the extent of a preseason plus a number of games.
 

So why are we still making references to a pre season. He has played enough footy and gotten enough miles into his legs by now. Or doesn’t it work like that?

Remember he also missed a large chunk of last season. I’m not opposed to trading him if it’s beneficial for both parties. For mine this is the exact reason why it won’t happen. As for Cornes, he is what he is and like him or not he’s really good at it. I don’t like him, sensationalist reporting about anything is only about one thing and that’s not spreading solid information but rather infotainment. 

[joeboy 3,171]

Just as a matter of interest, Clarrie is definitely looking ‘chunkier’ than last year… is it muscle or fat?

[JJJ 1,321]

10 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

That's fair.

We pushed him out. It was our decision.

[sue 9,151]

If those saying a player can't get properly fit during the actual season are correct (I don't doubt they are), then the obvious question is why did the club play him early in the season. WOuldn't it be better to put him on a pre-season regime during early rounds to prepare him for playing late in the season.  I can only guess that was because of lack of alternative players or helping with personal issues he might have had.

[daisycutter 29,799]

2 hours ago, rumpole said:

The likes of Cornes, Morris, Sam McClure are the equivalent in journalism of the American “yellow press” who use eye-catching headlines and sensationalized exaggerations for increased sales. They are characterized by exaggerated headlines, unverified claims, partisan agendas, and a focus on topics like crime, scandal, sports, and violence. In Britain and here, it’s called the “tabloid press” and these days it’s equivalent can also be found on Tik Tok and other social media platforms. These guys are television’s equivalent of clickbait.

So yes, they are doing their job but it’s a low grade of journalism that relies on speculation and innuendo, often has little regard for the truth and rarely does any fact checking which is why this story clearly deserves the contempt many here have heaped upon the above trio in this thread. 

They’re doing their job which is to attract ratings from a mindless public.

well we do live in an idiocracy 😦

[george_on_the_outer 7,822]

13 hours ago, binman said:

Because despite his fitness level he remains out best mid. 

And his current level is above that of 80% of mids playing the game.

 

24 minutes ago, sue said:

  I can only guess that was because of lack of alternative players ......

Exactly.....and who would people suggest we bring in as a mid from Casey to replace an 80% fit Oliver?  It's the same reason an 80% fit Petty was being played......they are better in that state than any alternative we might have.

[Adam The God 30,541]

1 hour ago, JJJ said:

We pushed him out. It was our decision.

That's what I thought, just like Watts.

[binman 44,201]

3 hours ago, rumpole said:

The likes of Cornes, Morris, Sam McClure are the equivalent in journalism of the American “yellow press” who use eye-catching headlines and sensationalized exaggerations for increased sales. They are characterized by exaggerated headlines, unverified claims, partisan agendas, and a focus on topics like crime, scandal, sports, and violence. In Britain and here, it’s called the “tabloid press” and these days it’s equivalent can also be found on Tik Tok and other social media platforms. These guys are television’s equivalent of clickbait.

So yes, they are doing their job but it’s a low grade of journalism that relies on speculation and innuendo, often has little regard for the truth and rarely does any fact checking which is why this story clearly deserves the contempt many here have heaped upon the above trio in this thread. 

They’re doing their job which is to attract ratings from a mindless public.

Agree with all of that.

And to be honest I have no real issue with click bait journalism as such. As BDA notes it is a buyers market, and if the market demands rubbish that's what it gets.

But the issue in the coverage of AFL football is, unlike in other spheres like politics, click bait and pantomime is all but the ONLY coverage option.

I've been complaining on demonland for years about the quality of the  media coverage of AFL.

Not unreasonably, the advice I often received is, well don't watch the rubbish - advice I've largely heeded.

The problem is it leaves almost no football media to consume.

In fact it has pretty much left me with 45 mins a week of Daniel Hoyne on sen and the abc 12-1 on Sunday (and even that is border line given the prominence of mathouse, who is really out there).

The problem this click bait monopoly creates is it completely drives and shapes the narrative. And let's be honest shapes the opinions of Joe footy public.

Take the discussion of trading Oliver.

It was a discussion that commenced last seaon and was premised on the idea he was bad for culture. That has been put to bed to a large degree because he and the club have done a brilliant job of getting back on track on that front.

Now it's premised on his form this season.

Which is where the problem starts.

Any discussion on his form is based on a comparison to his best football. Which is fair enough - but only to a degree.

If the hysteria theatre was balanced by some level headed footy media content the misinformation would be counter balanced by facts.

One of which is that by any measure clarry is actually having a pretty good season. Don't believe me? Go check his rankings on footy wire or wheeloratings. 

Clarry is ranked highly and is ahead of lots of excellent mids accross mutiple kpis for mids.

Or pick a couple of gun mids and compare their seasons.

And please spare me I don't need stats to tell me what my eyes and vibes tell me. That just echoes the approach the lazy media take (who often double down on lazy by picking one or two stats in isolation to buttress their vibes based rubbish).

One example. I compared clarry's season to Sam Walsh on wheeloratings and Walsh has him covered- but not by much. 

Walsh's player rating is 14.5 and clarry's is 11.15.

Walsh is averaging 5.7 disposals per game more than clarry, but we know clarry has been playing a defensive mid role.

Despite Walsh having more disposals, their contested possessions and centre clearance numbers are almost the same.

So sure, cornes and McClure have at it with your over the top faux hysteria. But how about introducing some facts into the discussion.

And when it comes to clarry rather than swallowing the click bait hook and sinker and echoing the views of fools like Morris, dees fans might do their own research and push back on false narratives the media push.

Edited July 19, 2024 by binman

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

1 hour ago, joeboy said:

Just as a matter of interest, Clarrie is definitely looking ‘chunkier’ than last year… is it muscle or fat?

Going back to his roots.

[Old Time Demon 85]

On 18/07/2024 at 10:27, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Far too many in the media deal in opinions and not facts. As for Tom Morris he is a giant skid mark on the y fronts of society. 

I think that is one of the most eloquent comments I have ever heard to describe the stain that is Tom Morris! 

[Neil Crompton 5,728]

14 hours ago, binman said:

Sorry, not sure I follow.

He did a preseason, it was just interrupted.

Why play him?

Because despite his fitness level he remains out best mid. 

And his current level is above that of 80% of mids playing the game.

Not sure i can agree with this Binny.

If, as you say, Goody's aim is to have our team in our best condition for the finals, and if, as you say, without a decent preseason you are not going to get any fitter during the year, then, to me, it makes little sense not to have our best player in the best possible shape we can get him into come the finals.

You state that his current level "may be above that of 80% of mids playing the game" - which is debatable - but for us to be a presence in the finals this year, we need Clarry as close to 100% as we can get him - at only 80% we are probably not going to be good enough, I fear.   

Hence my question about giving him a mini preseason during the year - possibly during the period he had the hand injury when his performances were (to put it ultra kindly) un-Clarry like. Certainly, based on his form at that time, we would not have missed him too much at all, and it would have meant that we could have blooded Rivers in the middle earlier than we had - which is likely to have been a big plus for us.

[BangBnagBang 721]

18 hours ago, Lexinator said:

I believe they have been doing that since Rd1 - great way honour the great man, Gussy.

It's just they don't have a camera down the races with the team so you have to watch carefully to see them do it when they come onto the ground. I've missed a few games so not sure if it's just for home games or every game?

Brisbane have been doing a similar thing for a few seasons with a boxing gloves hanging at their home games, but haven't looked into why they do it or it's just a motivation ritual they've adopted perhaps. They usually have a camera down the races so you often see this.

Anyway, great respect shown to Gus. I'd personally like to see until they will their next flag 😍

I think its a link to their song.

"We will always fight for victory"

[PaulRB 6,425]

45 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Not sure i can agree with this Binny.

If, as you say, Goody's aim is to have our team in our best condition for the finals, and if, as you say, without a decent preseason you are not going to get any fitter during the year, then, to me, it makes little sense not to have our best player in the best possible shape we can get him into come the finals.

You state that his current level "may be above that of 80% of mids playing the game" - which is debatable - but for us to be a presence in the finals this year, we need Clarry as close to 100% as we can get him - at only 80% we are probably not going to be good enough, I fear.   

Hence my question about giving him a mini preseason during the year - possibly during the period he had the hand injury when his performances were (to put it ultra kindly) un-Clarry like. Certainly, based on his form at that time, we would not have missed him too much at all, and it would have meant that we could have blooded Rivers in the middle earlier than we had - which is likely to have been a big plus for us.

I think Goody rightly assessed that we could ill afford to be without Clarry (while he did a mini-preseason), as in we’d be further off finals without Clarry for part of the season. And highly likely to miss finals. 

Due also to our other outs (Bradshaw, Smith) and poor performance of the mature recruits (Billings, McAdam, Hunter) and the resulting need to blood the kids. This again required Clarry’s midfield power, experience and stability be there every week. 

Edited July 19, 2024 by PaulRB