Demons great Depth

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

For many weeks now we have been winning games with at least 6 of our premiership team not playing for one reason or another. Against Hawthorn, not a bad side, we had just 14 of our Premiership team playing and yet we still won the game well. How many clubs could manage that and still be in the top 4 with the best percentage of all teams? Geelong lose Selwood and crash. All this despite some posters saying over and over again we lack depth. Thoughts?

[Little Goffy 14,521]

Hmm... very loosely group by role / part of the field.

McDonald, Brown, Fritsch, Petty,

Dunstan, Jordan, Harmes,

Spargo, Woewodin

Grundy

Hibberd,

 

I think we've had our depth severely tested for tall/marking forwards, but other than that there's not a lot missing.

Right at this moment I think it is Melksham who has kept us in the hunt by giving us a contested target against all odds.

Melksham is basically the bioluminescent algae story from Apollo 13.

[durango 2,007]

I looked at Jake and he has turned back the clock to 2018 when he was sensational I believe his poor form in the last 2/3 years may have been attributed to his very young family and a lack of sleep.

When Gary Hardiman returned from SA and played for the MFC his poor form I attributed to his job as a Fisherman who started work at 4:00am.

[deespicable me 1,486]

Maybe Bobbie, not saying you're wrong but offering an opposing point of view, is depth overrated at times?

We took a while to cover Oliver but when we got a mix back in the middle that worked it's arguable to think we were better. This week Newcombe and Lewis were out for the Hawks yet Worpel stepped up and others from the Hawks helped out. Would they have beaten us with those two in the team. I doubt it. Last week my Carlton mates were carrying on about their outs in Cerra, Walsh, McKay and others, would they have actually won the game (coz they didn't) with those players in the team? Not sure. 

Fritta who is our best forward over the last 3 years by a fair margin comes back in to the team hopefully this week. I thought we were just starting to cover Petty in the second half against Hawthorn. Will we be better with Fritta back? Certainly in the long run but again it may take a while. 

Of all Collingwoods outs I think maybe the one they missed the most this week was Bobbie Hill.

Some teams can cover loss well if they have a ready player. Some players are irreplaceable and no amount of depth can cover their loss.

[tiers 2,833]

Depth cannot replace Oliver or Petracca or Fritsch or May or Lever or Viney or Gawn whose talents and contributions are monumental.

Depth can ensure that we have well prepared and coached contributors but cannot maintain the high standard that we need.

Without Fritsch, TMac, BBB and Petty no amount of depth could replace what they could contribute at their respective best and it showed against the dorks.

Where we do have depth is across all lines where the backs and the midfielders dominance helped overcome the deficiencies in the forward line.

The return of Fritsch and perhaps a fully fit TMac will make a big difference.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

What is depth ?

We've had a successful VFL team for several years so as a group the players do well. Individually it's harder to say as the gameplan (boundary with lots of throw ins and packs) does not lend itself to line busting displays.

Weideman's failure to progress and injuries to aging stars in TMac and BBB badly exposed us for forward depth. Schache seems to be a bust. Midfield is not full of up and comers. Flankers we have a few but none are standouts. Down back is probably a little stronger.

Ruck wise (Grundy aside) there's no one as yet.

Perhaps I'm being harsh as we no longer see the revolving ins and outs of the bottom 5 players we used to see.

Then there is the question of whether depth is useful. Tomlinson and Jordon (both great depth) want out. Preuss (great depth) wanted out and we hear the same of Harmes. Where will Dunstan go at season's end

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

We lost Luke Jackson. As Grundy hasn’t proven useful we’ve effectively replaced him with JVR.

Hibbo has been replaced by McVee.

Those 2 are the good news stories.

Chandler for Spargo is a wash, nice to have both so we have competition. That’s ok depth.

BBB and T Mc aren’t up to afl standard any more. We’re getting by with Smith and Melk who are classic depth players. Undersized and not convinced they are really up to it but Melk is having a decent crack. 

Petty hasn’t been covered by Tomlinson. 

Laurie for Fritsch. Hmm, not convinced.

Hunter for Harmes (with Gus moving on ball). Not exactly making huge strides there.

Looks like a list that needs 2 or 3 first round picks, some smart tall pick ups with at least 1 quality best 22 tall and maybe even a trade for a proper outside runner to really get back to being a complete list with talent in every position. 

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

We lost Bedford and Hunt due to salary cap and competition for spots, whilst we’ve covered both they would’ve been very useful.

Apart from early picks or trades we need at least one of Howes, Laurie, Woey, AMW, Disco to become best 22 next year. And a bunch of them to become genuine options.

[Salems Lot 2,525]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

We lost Luke Jackson. As Grundy hasn’t proven useful we’ve effectively replaced him with JVR.

Hibbo has been replaced by McVee.

Those 2 are the good news stories.

Chandler for Spargo is a wash, nice to have both so we have competition. That’s ok depth.

BBB and T Mc aren’t up to afl standard any more. We’re getting by with Smith and Melk who are classic depth players. Undersized and not convinced they are really up to it but Melk is having a decent crack. 

Petty hasn’t been covered by Tomlinson. 

Laurie for Fritsch. Hmm, not convinced.

Hunter for Harmes (with Gus moving on ball). Not exactly making huge strides there.

Looks like a list that needs 2 or 3 first round picks, some smart tall pick ups with at least 1 quality best 22 tall and maybe even a trade for a proper outside runner to really get back to being a complete list with talent in every position. 

I heard us being linked to Max Holmes yesterday.  Apparently he is keen to leave sleepy hollow.  Geelong in full re-build mode may be interested in parting with him but at a price I would imagine

Edited August 21, 2023 by Salems Lot

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

1 minute ago, Salems Lot said:

I heard us being linked to Max Holmes yesterday.  Apparently he is keen to leave sleepy hollow.  Geelong in full re-build mode may be intereded in parting with him but at a price I would imagine

I can’t imagine Geelong would willingly trade their best young player just to draft another young player. But yeah, we should absolutely be doing all we can to get him. 

[Cranky Franky 2,051]

1 hour ago, durango said:

I looked at Jake and he has turned back the clock to 2018 when he was sensational I believe his poor form in the last 2/3 years may have been attributed to his very young family and a lack of sleep.

When Gary Hardiman returned from SA and played for the MFC his poor form I attributed to his job as a Fisherman who started work at 4:00am.

What an odd comment. You may as well speculate his poor form was due to staying up all night with an x box addiction.

And Gary Hardeman (with an e) a fisherman  ?????

His poor form was because he was older & way past his best.

[Salems Lot 2,525]

46 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I can’t imagine Geelong would willingly trade their best young player just to draft another young player. But yeah, we should absolutely be doing all we can to get him. 

Agreed but the individual player seems to have far more power these days. Personally, with our list the way it is we are tailor made to go to the draft. (IMHO)

[roy11 3,852]

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Hmm... very loosely group by role / part of the field.

McDonald, Brown, Fritsch, Petty,

Dunstan, Jordan, Harmes,

Spargo, Woewodin

Grundy

Hibberd,

 

I think we've had our depth severely tested for tall/marking forwards, but other than that there's not a lot missing.

Right at this moment I think it is Melksham who has kept us in the hunt by giving us a contested target against all odds.

Melksham is basically the bioluminescent algae story from Apollo 13.

We've been a bit unlucky with injuries for the taller forward options. Injuries haven't really been spread out too much in the squad.  Some trading/drafting to help this in 2024 and another pre-season in options like Jeffo and Sestan will help.

Its funny myself and a few others at the start of the season were posting about nursing Melksham to 100 games with us but he has been an important player this season.

[ElDiablo14 4,998]

The one thing that may be overlooked is our list's flexibility.

Trac can go forward, Rivers can attack from HB, Bowey and McVee are great users of the footy and can go up the flank/wing, Petty a great tall both in D and O, JVR is not too shabby in the ruck, Smith the super sub that can go back or fwd, Kozzy getting involved in the midfield, Our skipper all around player, Sparrow with his Viney like attributes.

 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,843]

7 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

For many weeks now we have been winning games with at least 6 of our premiership team not playing for one reason or another. Against Hawthorn, not a bad side, we had just 14 of our Premiership team playing and yet we still won the game well. How many clubs could manage that and still be in the top 4 with the best percentage of all teams? Geelong lose Selwood and crash. All this despite some posters saying over and over again we lack depth. Thoughts?

And not to mention Brian Dixon, Ron Barassi and Frank Adams.

[IRW 1,387]

5 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

I heard us being linked to Max Holmes yesterday.  Apparently he is keen to leave sleepy hollow.  Geelong in full re-build mode may be interested in parting with him but at a price I would imagine

A bit tough on Melksham but that is the group think around here.

You're correct about BBB and TMac though

[John Demonic 5,789]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

We lost Bedford and Hunt due to salary cap and competition for spots, whilst we’ve covered both they would’ve been very useful.

How useful? Not one result would've been changed, nor would be changed going forward with them in the team.

Edited August 21, 2023 by John Demonic

[D4Life 2,469]

Every team has issues with depth. There are some players incredibly difficult or can’t be replaced, nor multiple players for a position e.g. Bbb, TMac and Petty - I’m sure FD would have thought one of those players would have filled a key forward position!

Also hope that Grundy/Max would add to forward line.

Grundy has covered for Max, and Schache back up to Grundy!

Someone has to replace Grundy as backup for Max if they trade him!!

[Dingo 1,059]

4 hours ago, roy11 said:

We've been a bit unlucky with injuries for the taller forward options. Injuries haven't really been spread out too much in the squad.  Some trading/drafting to help this in 2024 and another pre-season in options like Jeffo and Sestan will help.

Its funny myself and a few others at the start of the season were posting about nursing Melksham to 100 games with us but he has been an important player this season.

Melky is an intelligent, skilful player.Kee playing him.

[Older demon 2,741]

Depth or development. I love the way we have bought players in and developed them.

What other premiership contender has 2 first year players in key role ie JVR & McVee? In addition they have introduced Laurie, Woewodin, Chandler & Turner from last years Casey premiership team. They aren't like for like replacing Brown, Oliver or TMac but they are our future. Likewise Verral, Jefferson & Adams aren't depth but I like they way they are progressing and will be the replacements for those premiership players. Petty I hope is going to be a revelation up forward if he can get his feet right. Think David Neits moving from CHB to forward. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

1 hour ago, Older demon said:

What other premiership contender has 2 first year players in key role ie JVR & McVee?

Most do and neither of those named are first year players.

I'd like to see some figures on Richmond and the other (or near 3peats) but the turnover is (my guess) 6 players in 3 years.

Renew or Whither is the general rule

You also need to distinguish between depth and renewal. Not sure that they are the same

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

3 hours ago, John Demonic said:

How useful? Not one result would've been changed, nor would be changed going forward with them in the team.

Hunt would've provided cover for Bowey and Salem who are both playing through niggles or fatigue at the moment, possibly enough to see us beat Carlton a week ago. McVee's been great so we haven't missed Hunt but he would've been a very good depth player as he was the last 2 years.

Bedford could very much be best 22 and making an impact. He's gone up a level at the Giants and is playing good footy. I was never a huge fan of his game but the club seemed very keen to keep him and I can see why.

[Turner 1,514]

13 hours ago, Older demon said:

What other premiership contender has 2 first year players in key role ie JVR & McVee?

BRIS: Ashcroft/Fletcher and Wilmot

CARL: Hollands

STK: NWM, Owens, Caminiti for most of the year and recently Windhager too plus Philipou hasn't left the side

 

 

[layzie 33,793]

Depth comes down to this: if someone like Dunstan won't be considered to play then he is nothing but a list clogger. 

Yes we need depth but it is often overrated.

[ElDiablo14 4,998]

1 hour ago, Turner said:

BRIS: Ashcroft/Fletcher and Wilmot

CARL: Hollands

STK: NWM, Owens, Caminiti for most of the year and recently Windhager too plus Philipou hasn't left the side

 

 

STK and CARL are not premiership contenders 😏