Tap work and follow up is sublime.

Smart decision maker and simply a completely different player to Max.

Jackson did not produce anything near the work Grundy is doing. Never. Je will never work as hard as Grundy.

The dream is to see us beat the arrogant Daicos cult to win the flag  by deploying Frampton against the 2 big Fellas.

The obvious nightmare is not worth contemplating. 

  On 26/04/2023 at 12:53, Wizard of Koz said:

Tap work and follow up is sublime.

Smart decision maker and simply a completely different player to Max.

Jackson did not produce anything near the work Grundy is doing. Never. Je will never work as hard as Grundy.

The dream is to see us beat the arrogant Daicos cult to win the flag  by deploying Frampton against the 2 big Fellas.

The obvious nightmare is not worth contemplating. 

Yes have mentioned in another topic hardly ever loses a hitout.

I am still not used to seeing a Melbourne ruck bounce the ball...since Stynes...

I think he's been good. His tap work especially. He does need to take more marks. 

Mobile ruckmen are worth their weight in gold. 

I'm gonna cop it for saying this but imo Grundy is actually a better centre tap ruckman than Gawn. 

Only have to go back to half way through the 3rd quarter when Grundy was thrown in there and completely changed the momentum of the game just by simply palming to our midfield advantage.

Gawn can be hit and miss and i thought that when he was rucking at times Richmond seem to generate more clearences because he hits it to the defensive side.

The biggest turning point of the game was leaving Grundy to ruck and Gawn up forward. Gawn has such a huge presence up forward and some of his contested marking was Carey like. He makes defenders worry and it could be something that may help JVR development up forward so that he isn't getting the best defender at the start of the match.

I want to this more of this where Grundy takes more responsibilities as the main ruck and Gawn playing up forward. If it means less pressure and hits on his body then he'll be cherry ripe come September. 

I agree DD, I much prefer Grundy in centre bounces and think we look more dynamic when he is in there.

Gawn's biggest strength is his marking, both contested and the ability to out-run his opponent and get uncontested marks as well. I fee like once he comes to terms with this he may actually go to a new level and become the best ruck/forward in the game.

If Gawn can get more marks in the 20-30m range he will kick a lot more goals. On Monday night all his shots (other than the goal line one) were taken from about 50 metres and I'd say he's at best a 50/50 chance from there but probably more a 40/60. If he can get more marks at the closer range I can easily see him kicking bags of 3, 4 or even more.

The other benefit we have is he can drop behind the ball late in quarters if we want to 'kill' the game and not let a side score in red time.

I think by the end of the season the Grundy/Gawn combo will be a well oiled machine and lead us to flag 14.

  On 26/04/2023 at 22:36, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm gonna cop it for saying this but imo Grundy is actually a better centre tap ruckman than Gawn. 

Only have to go back to half way through the 3rd quarter when Grundy was thrown in there and completely changed the momentum of the game just by simply palming to our midfield advantage.

Gawn can be hit and miss and i thought that when he was rucking at times Richmond seem to generate more clearences because he hits it to the defensive side.

The biggest turning point of the game was leaving Grundy to ruck and Gawn up forward. Gawn has such a huge presence up forward and some of his contested marking was Carey like. He makes defenders worry and it could be something that may help JVR development up forward so that he isn't getting the best defender at the start of the match.

I want to this more of this where Grundy takes more responsibilities as the main ruck and Gawn playing up forward. If it means less pressure and hits on his body then he'll be cherry ripe come September. 

If you're talking pure palming ability then I think you may be onto something. What Gawn does so well to me is vary his taps and his awareness of where his mids are has to be among the best. Taps forward, to the side, over the shoulder, I don't think I've ever seen anyone with the versatility and creativity of Max's hit outs. Having said that though, he's not the best pure palmer of the ball going round.

Grundy was excellent in the 3rd and he was putting just enough weight on those taps to give our mids a chance. That kind of tap is like a Chess move where you think a few moves ahead.

Edited April 26, 20231 yr by layzie

Having them both is a cheat code

Grundy has been very good, but Max is 6 x AA for a reason. His tap work is great. He's just come back from a knee, so anyone using 1 game as a sample size to compare their tap work needs to take a deep breath 

Reckon Grundy can go another gear or two.  When Max has played Grundy's game time has been 68% and 69%.  Without Max it has been 71% to 88%. 

The lower game time could be to help him get to peak fitness after so long out of the game.  Or it could be to keep him fresh in games to use as a weapon to get or keep momentum going our way as he did in the 3rd qtr vs Tigers.  A similar strategy to what we are doing with mid fielders:  preserving them for the second half of games.

My observation is that what I call 'first half preservation' of Grundy and mid fielders, is why we are playing phenomenal final quarters.  Even in the two games we have lost we have had exceptional final quarters.  This will be a real asset for the season and one opps will find difficult to counter if they don't have the fitness for such a strategy to work for them.

Off topic a little but I have been pleasantly surprised by how he is almost first on the scene to back his teammates up in any scuffle that occurs. 
Don’t consider him ex Collingwood anymore, he is simply one of us.

Edited April 27, 20231 yr by Wodjathefirst
Typo!

I think Grundy gives us a lot more to play with than we had with Jackson last year.  It's about maximising the strengths and minimising the weaknesses.  My fear with Grundy is that he's not accountable if his opponent pushes forward.  But I suspect Jacko would have been similar in that regard.

Equally as good as Gawn is forward of centre, if he can't actually kick straight (like on the weekend and the second half of last year) then it's all for nothing.  

Hopefully not too many more injuries to the talls allows us to experiment to find the right mix.

  On 26/04/2023 at 23:36, Wodjathefirst said:

Off topic a little but I have been pleasantly surprised by how he is almost first in the scene to back his teammates up in any scuffle that occurs. 
Don’t consider him ex Collingwood anymore, he is simply one of us.

Massive respect in my eyes.

  On 26/04/2023 at 23:36, Wodjathefirst said:

Off topic a little but I have been pleasantly surprised by how he is almost first in the scene to back his teammates up in any scuffle that occurs. 
Don’t consider him ex Collingwood anymore, he is simply one of us.

the way he came in and belted that tiggas dude who dropped his knees into jvr was great

he's a very different style of ruckman to gawn, and as our mids get used to him having them both fit and firing is going to be a massive advantage

Loving what Brodie is bringing to the side but I can't agree he's a better centre bounce ruckman than Max - people forget when the big skipper is at his best no one can dominate the way he does in the middle

I wish Grundy would take the ball out of the ruck more.

I can't believe he's not butter!

Grundy has enabled us to unleash Gawn's powerful marking all around the ground, powerful combo 

Gawn hasn’t jumped in the ruck since about 2016 and it’s not a surprise it’s getting more and more difficult for him to chase quick mids (or even quick rucks). 

Grundy’s not a great jumper either and his tap work is haphazard, but hopefully he builds that cohesion. His follow up is certainly excellent.

Still some work with defensive positioning and with his decision making with the pill. Hint for Brodie; none of our mids can kick, don’t be afraid to pull the trigger yourself!

80% TOG against 2 rucks found him out, but rucking 50-60% and some short stints forward is about right. 

The bit I really like is when the rucks can call their own change based on a big effort or match up. That way we aren’t wasting rotations and can get fresher legs on the long down the line and at stoppages. 

As Melbourne supporters, we spent most of our time during his peak years trying to highlight his faults so we could win the Gawn v Grundy debates.  Always knew he was a great player - just never wanted to admit it until this year.

 

 

One of the reasons this combo can work so well is that both players are at the stages of their careers (and lives) that they are completely team orientated.  They have nothing left to prove for themselves and are therefore prepared to do whatever is required to help the team win a premiership.  If one is running hot out of he middle, the other is happy to leave them there and do another role.

There is no comparison between Grundy and Jackson.

  On 27/04/2023 at 02:31, loges said:

There is no comparison between Grundy and Jackson.

Well clearly there is comparison, I think Grundy is better 🙂

As everyone knows, Brodie wanted to stay at Collingwood and was heartbroken when shown the door. A little birdie told me that our boys have made him feel more than welcome, he’s really happy and it’s as though he’s been one of us for years. I only hope the Eagles are doing the same for Jayden.