I think it’s safe to say they didn’t think that their would be accusations of such reprehensible behaviour. It’s all so draining. I’m going to watch Andor again.

25 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think it’s safe to say they didn’t think that their would be accusations of such reprehensible behaviour. It’s all so draining. I’m going to watch Andor again.

I wish all the Star Wars series had the same mood. I’m enjoying the vibe.

I can’t stand it when they so clearly pander to a younger audience. Why did they put that stupid biker gang in ‘Boba Fett’?

Honestly, why can’t all things I loved as a child still cater exclusively to me? What’s wrong with the world!

1 hour ago, Ugottobekidding said:

It depends on what they have found. There may be evidence or communications that have been recorded or kept. It is obvious that something has spooked the Hawks and they have hand balled it too the AFL. 

I think they hand balled it to avoid any conflict of interest given the severity of the accusations

I suspect the coaches believed they were doing the right thing by the players, hence the strident denial by those named.
However, the advice, counsel, whatever you call it it, was given in 1. the ultra competitive environment of an afl team with a winning expectation, and 2. from a white man’s perspective. 
it is a sign of our growing maturity as a country that we are beginning to understand the indigenous experience of our white assumptions and “good intentions”. 
This independent investigation, with indigenous representation, is a good thing. Hopefully the truth it uncovers helps us in the white community to understand and learn. 

Probably should have interviewed all parties involved before publicly releasing the findings of an internal review.

Reckon a lot of people are going to get sued for defamation over this Hawthorn saga.

Also entirely unclear if the actions did occur whether it was race based as the media is making it out to be some quasi stolen generation or if it was the general approach to all football players at the club or those who had scally wag mates who could get them into trouble.

30 minutes ago, KLV said:

FFS, how long do you need to “understand and learn”?

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by Neil Crompton

 

55 minutes ago, KLV said:

I suspect the coaches believed they were doing the right thing by the players, hence the strident denial by those named.
However, the advice, counsel, whatever you call it it, was given in 1. the ultra competitive environment of an afl team with a winning expectation, and 2. from a white man’s perspective. 
it is a sign of our growing maturity as a country that we are beginning to understand the indigenous experience of our white assumptions and “good intentions”. 
This independent investigation, with indigenous representation, is a good thing. Hopefully the truth it uncovers helps us in the white community to understand and learn. 

White assumptions and good intentions? 
have I just been transported to 1950?

1 hour ago, KLV said:

I suspect the coaches believed they were doing the right thing by the players, hence the strident denial by those named.
However, the advice, counsel, whatever you call it it, was given in 1. the ultra competitive environment of an afl team with a winning expectation, and 2. from a white man’s perspective. 
it is a sign of our growing maturity as a country that we are beginning to understand the indigenous experience of our white assumptions and “good intentions”. 
This independent investigation, with indigenous representation, is a good thing. Hopefully the truth it uncovers helps us in the white community to understand and learn. 

KLV

What you say may have been apposite in 1970 to explain the misguided actions of pre-1960 but fifty years on in a professional organisation...NO WAY

 

@KLV:Hopefully the truth it uncovers helps us in the white community to understand and learn. 
 

….aaaannnnnnddddd…

You’re nearly there.

…aaaannnnnnndddd…

…face consequences.

You nearly got there…

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by rpfc
Quote thing broke

12 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

 

White assumptions and good intentions? 
have I just been transported to 1950?

I completely agree, this is my opinion of what happened from Clarkson, Fagan, etc. I’m NOT sanctioning the actions of them at all

8 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

KLV

What you say may have been apposite in 1970 to explain the misguided actions of pre-1960 but fifty years on in a professional organisation...NO WAY

Agree Diamond, this was merely an attempt to understand the reaction from Clarkson et al

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

I wish all the Star Wars series had the same mood. I’m enjoying the vibe.

I can’t stand it when they so clearly pander to a younger audience. Why did they put that stupid biker gang in ‘Boba Fett’?

Honestly, why can’t all things I loved as a child still cater exclusively to me? What’s wrong with the world!

Because the majority of modern writers/showrunners are [censored], they can't write well developed characters or sensible plots or the logical /decisions actions their characters would take if they were consistent.  He bright coloured hover bikes were shocking, and what a bad [censored] gang they were...not.   

Haven't started Andor yet, been burnt a few times to rush to it.

22 minutes ago, rpfc said:

….aaaannnnnnddddd…

You’re nearly there.

…aaaannnnnnndddd…

…face consequences.

You nearly got there…

Yes, and face consequences 

6 hours ago, chookrat said:

I reckon the media and public have gotten into a frenzy over specific details by one side without any broader context.  I'm bewildered how Hawthorn conducted such a review and reported its findings to the AFL without interviewing Clarkson and Fagan as part of the process. I accept the allegations are serious and should be properly considered but that they have made their way into the public domain before Clarkson and Fagan have had a chance to respond to the allegations. What happens to their reputations if it turns out the players made things up?

They will be sued slander. Either Hawthorn, the review panel or the players. Or maybe all of them.

The review has been handled incredibly poorly.

 

11 minutes ago, CYB said:

They will be sued slander. Either Hawthorn, the review panel or the players. Or maybe all of them.

The review has been handled incredibly poorly.

 

It seems it could be heading for a really poor outcome...

But hopefully a well constructed enquiry can establish truth and context with input from all parties

 

52 minutes ago, CYB said:

They will be sued slander. Either Hawthorn, the review panel or the players. Or maybe all of them.

The review has been handled incredibly poorly.

 

You've read it? were you part of the interview process?

If not, how do you know it was handled poorly?

7 hours ago, Flag Favourites 3019 said:

Probably should have interviewed all parties involved before publicly releasing the findings of an internal review.

Reckon a lot of people are going to get sued for defamation over this Hawthorn saga.

Also entirely unclear if the actions did occur whether it was race based as the media is making it out to be some quasi stolen generation or if it was the general approach to all football players at the club or those who had scally wag mates who could get them into trouble.

They weren't released, they were leaked.

11 hours ago, rpfc said:

I think it’s safe to say they didn’t think that their would be accusations of such reprehensible behaviour. It’s all so draining. I’m going to watch Andor again.

Interesting start rpfc. Watching 3rd episode tonight. 

2 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

They weren't released, they were leaked.

Were they?  

I had the impression the ABC story was based on separate interviews by Jackson with HFC players. 

According to McLachlan last night on AFL 360 the ABC story had info the HFC report did not and vice versa.  If the ABC story was based on a leaked  HFC report one would expect the content to not vary.

8 hours ago, rjay said:

You've read it? were you part of the interview process?

If not, how do you know it was handled poorly?

Exactly.

It wasn't a review, its was a truth-telling exercise by the club to seek the experiences of other indigenous players following Cyril's expose of his club departure and what was behind that.They provided those insights back to the club.

Now a reveiw on the issues is needed and has been initiated. Everyone gets their say but the players and families involved in Egan's process had every right to tell their story to Egan's team.

As usual in Australia, its up to the ABC to expose appalling behaviour coz no-one else does. 

If we don't believe this was 'sat on' hoping it goes away or becomes public after the GF then we're naive in the extreme.

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by Demon17
spelling mistakes

34 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Were they?  

I had the impression the ABC story was based on separate interviews by Jackson with HFC players. 

According to McLachlan last night on AFL 360 the ABC story had info the HFC report did not and vice versa.  If the ABC story was based on a leaked  HFC report one would expect the content to not vary.

Disagree - any top journalist who gets access to this kind of report, is always going to leverage it by finding extra info or detail that will be credited to them 

4 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Disagree - any top journalist who gets access to this kind of report, is always going to leverage it by finding extra info or detail that will be credited to them 

Agreed.  But do we know that Jackson did have access to the HFC report?

I don't recall him quoting it or referring to it which one expect if he did have access.

I'd be interested to know one way or the other if he did.

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

Disagree - any top journalist who gets access to this kind of report, is always going to leverage it by finding extra info or detail that will be credited to them 

It's apparently a story he's been working on for quite some time, that the report was recently tabled probably influenced the timing of his story being released. That and it being GF week when more eyes are on the AFL.

Whether he had access to the report or not really doesn't matter...he did have access to the participants.

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by rjay