4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Grundy's price went down by 25% today

Think on it...you'll realise why

 

Cox and Cameron played well??

1 hour ago, Dee Zephyr said:

He’ll look good in the 6 jumper.

And we’ll get an instant upgrade in output in season 2023 from the previous number 6 in 2022.

7 minutes ago, The Lobster Effect said:

Cox and Cameron played well??

Ruckmen aren't relevant to their style of play

Same with probably half the league

11 hours ago, Older demon said:

Geelong got smashed last year's prelim have this year bought in Stengel and debuted De Koning. They introduced Holmes last year and changed Atkins role this year. Dahlhaus, Narkle, Higgins and Parfitt cannot get a game nor can Ratugolea & Menegola. 4 minor changes and Geelong are revitalised and play a different style of footy. Our challenge is to find better players than Jackson, Hunt, Hibberd, Melksham, Spargoi and maybe ANB. I don't care if they are 18, 25 or 28 just do it 

Totally agree.  Yet three of those are said to have been offered new contracts and two are contracted.

Our fresh blood have been running around in the VFL learning to play 'our brand' ie play defensive football. 😐

I'm not seeing the potential for many list changes this year, outside of Grundy and maybe another trade or draftee.  Not enough to change our mix nor enough to 'force' a change to how we play.  Unfortunately.

Edited September 17, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

10 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

He’ll look good in the 6 jumper.

Number 2 is vacant.  

We'll get two top 12 picks for Jackson.

Use the higher of those picks to trade for 2x top 25 picks. Use one of those picks for Grundy. 

In all seriousness though it's crazy Pies are letting Grundy walk. Arguably a fit Grundy this finals series would have been the difference. Cox did nothing all finals. I know they want to sign DeGoey but they still beat Freo without him and they have enough mids to be okay without him. Cats did fine losing Kelly.

 

9 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Ruckmen aren't relevant to their style of play

Same with probably half the league

This is spot on. They’re not letting him go because he isn’t good at football. They’re letting him go because his value equation has changed for them, partly because of form last 18 months but mainly because they have a game plan that doesn’t really need him.

 

edit: * doesn’t really need some of his cost occupying that role * 

Edited September 17, 20222 yr by The Jackson FIX

40 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Totally agree.  Yet three of those are said to have been offered new contracts and two are contracted.

Our fresh blood have been running around in the VFL learning to play 'our brand' ie play defensive football. 😐

I'm not seeing the potential for many list changes this year, outside of Grundy and maybe another trade or draftee.  Not enough to change our mix nor enough to 'force' a change to how we play.  Unfortunately.

Harsh on Hibberd 

4 minutes ago, Billy said:

Harsh on Hibberd 

In what way?

The comment was in the context of 'fresh blood' and list changes.

Maybe everybody forgot Peter Moore who played ok and won a brownlow at the MFC, maybe Grundy could do the same?

I can think of a ton of set plays that would be available to us with 2 very mobile 200+cm marking targets on the ground. Plays that no other team could do.

 People seem to limit their thinking on a resting ruck to deep forward or deep back. To me having Max there for the kick out target or the next kick is his real value in attack. In defence, his ability to intercept transition kicks is where he shines.

As an example, if you added Grundy on the ground with he and Max on the defensive side of either wing at a kick out, not only would they not know who to defend, the non receiving ruckman could transition forward and toward the corridor for a comparatively safe inboard 45 kick that would absolutely open up the ground and provide new leading lanes for our forwards.

 Since they are both excellent tap ruckman dropping an interceptor behind play to quell a run of goals would not cost us at the stoppage.

 If you have 2 dominant marking targets in the middle of the ground, you don’t necessarily need a pack marking forward, you can much more easily open up the ground and start attacks from the fat side rather than having to stay down the line on one wing.

i have no idea how serious we are about Grundy but I can see many ways this could work for us if we get him.

Just musing on potential headlines if he does join us:

"GrunDee!"

"GrunDeeal"

Too soon?

Edited September 18, 20222 yr by Salems Lot

1 hour ago, FlashInThePan said:

I can think of a ton of set plays that would be available to us with 2 very mobile 200+cm marking targets on the ground. Plays that no other team could do.

 People seem to limit their thinking on a resting ruck to deep forward or deep back. To me having Max there for the kick out target or the next kick is his real value in attack. In defence, his ability to intercept transition kicks is where he shines.

As an example, if you added Grundy on the ground with he and Max on the defensive side of either wing at a kick out, not only would they not know who to defend, the non receiving ruckman could transition forward and toward the corridor for a comparatively safe inboard 45 kick that would absolutely open up the ground and provide new leading lanes for our forwards.

 Since they are both excellent tap ruckman dropping an interceptor behind play to quell a run of goals would not cost us at the stoppage.

 If you have 2 dominant marking targets in the middle of the ground, you don’t necessarily need a pack marking forward, you can much more easily open up the ground and start attacks from the fat side rather than having to stay down the line on one wing.

i have no idea how serious we are about Grundy but I can see many ways this could work for us if we get him.

Last night's game was a blueprint on how to beat us. When the Swans moved the ball quickly and avoided kicking long, they dominated. Once they tired, the Pies were able to run the ball and they dominated. We got found out by both these teams.

I can't imagine having both Grundy and Gawn on the ground in the 2nd half of games will solve the issues we faced this year. We need to change things up and become more mobile. I wouldn't bet on Grundy being mobile at his age and post injuries. 

25 minutes ago, Salems Lot said:

Just musing on potential headlines if he does join us:

"GrunDee!"

"GrunDeeal"

Too soon?

'Brodie joins Dee Bros says large Pies' source'

 

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Last night's game was a blueprint on how to beat us. When the Swans moved the ball quickly and avoided kicking long, they dominated. Once they tired, the Pies were able to run the ball and they dominated. We got found out by both these teams.

I can't imagine having both Grundy and Gawn on the ground in the 2nd half of games will solve the issues we faced this year. We need to change things up and become more mobile. I wouldn't bet on Grundy being mobile at his age and post injuries. 

We can be a 'quick' side with both Gawn & Grundy. I mean Collingwood play both Cox & Cameron together anyway.

Adding speed to our side will be more about getting better ball users (Bowey) to improve transition, another true wingman & another speedy forward into the side

11 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Grundy's price went down by 25% today

Think on it...you'll realise why

 

Many of us have been out late celebrating Collingwood’s 1-point defeat. Feeling a bit foggy, so could you please spell out your reasoning.

9 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Last night's game was a blueprint on how to beat us. When the Swans moved the ball quickly and avoided kicking long, they dominated. Once they tired, the Pies were able to run the ball and they dominated. We got found out by both these teams.

I can't imagine having both Grundy and Gawn on the ground in the 2nd half of games will solve the issues we faced this year. We need to change things up and become more mobile. I wouldn't bet on Grundy being mobile at his age and post injuries. 

Wait, did you go nearly 24 hours between similar posts about why this is a bad idea?

He's coming and there's every chance he'll be an MFC Premiership player. Better get used to it.

Oh I know "happy to be wrong"

41 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Many of us have been out late celebrating Collingwood’s 1-point defeat. Feeling a bit foggy, so could you please spell out your reasoning.

The answers are above but in one word it's evolution

9 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The answers are above but in one word it's evolution

 

11 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The answers are above but in one word it's evolution

They're going to play more games in Darwin?

22 hours ago, layzie said:

Pretty much. Means in terms of having a tilt at next year we'll be working with what we've got most likely. 

I take a little comfort from Collingwood though in that they had this issue last year and badly needed a key forward but they've re-worked it in a way with little personnel change. 

The Pies forward line for the bulk of their streak of wins was Cox/Cameron for maybe 70% of game time, 2 mobile talls in Mihocek, Ash Johnson and a gun small marking player in Jamie Elliott.

Gawn/Grundy can do the same job as the Pies rucks. Whether it’s worth the money I’m not sure but they can do a job.

Fritsch has a lot of similarities to Elliott as a goal kicker, without the defensive game. This summer he really has to develop his game.

Can we get Mihocek and Johnson performance from McDonald and JVR? Yes. Would I like another mobile tall so we have depth - absolutely.

5 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Totally agree.  Yet three of those are said to have been offered new contracts and two are contracted.

Our fresh blood have been running around in the VFL learning to play 'our brand' ie play defensive football. 😐

I'm not seeing the potential for many list changes this year, outside of Grundy and maybe another trade or draftee.  Not enough to change our mix nor enough to 'force' a change to how we play.  Unfortunately.

I see this as a big issue, you need fresh blood, skilllsets and talent. If Goodwin goes with more of the same again, hes in for a rude wakeup call next year, especially if we get injuries. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Fritsch has a lot of similarities to Elliott as a goal kicker, without the defensive game. This summer he really has to develop his game.

Good luck with that. 

He will never bridge the gap so relying on that especially over one summer is a pipe-dream. 

Replacing ANB is something I'd love to see going forward. I just don't see his value now. He's been in the system for a long time and his forward craft is average at best. Forward craft is too important and you want to see incremental improvement with these guys, not one good year one poor. 

I'd have Chandler ahead of him in an instant. 

 

Edited September 18, 20222 yr by JimmyGadson

9 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Good luck with that. 

He will never bridge the gap so relying on that especially over one summer is a pipe-dream. 

Replacing ANB is something I'd love to see going forward. I just don't see his value now. He's been in the system for a long time and his forward craft is average at best. Forward craft is too important and you want to see incremental improvement with these guys, not one good year one poor. 

I'd have Chandler ahead of him in an instant. 

 

Yes, this comes back to my Forwards Only theme for us next year. If you can’t find the footy in the forward half with forward craft or good forward instincts - I am sorry, you can compete for a spot on the other wing to Ed.

ANB is not a forward and never has been, his overlap running and amazing aerobic capacity has been a point of difference recently but as the best teams have caught up with that ‘slingshot’ he has been found out because he can’t get the ball and/or can’t execute in the F50.

Kozzie is a fwd, Fritsch is a fwd, Brown and TMac have other problems but they are forwards, Spargo is a big conundrum for me as I really struggle with whether he is ‘too slow mid’ out of position, or can actually find footy at the contest in the F50. He gets a great deal on the overlap and maybe he should be competing with ANB for the non-Ed wing…

And don’t get me started on Sparrow or Harmes through there when resting - they are absolute liabilities.

Petracca can play forward, Brayshaw is smart, Oliver is a natural in any contest. They can rest there. But the rest…

Forwards Only pls.

20 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Good luck with that. 

He will never bridge the gap so relying on that especially over one summer is a pipe-dream. 

There’s no reason Fritsch can’t add it to his game if he’s coached up and coached hard, he has the physical tools it’s just attitude and technique. He should also be rotated through the wing to see the value of forward pressure. No more dining out on the grand final for Fritter.