3 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I wonder what the specific strategy of getting Grundy across to co-exist with Gawn is,  that,  wouldn't render Gawn (or Grundy himself) into marginal roles...

There has to be a highly specific reason/plan/strategy why the FD want Grundy as a direct replacement (not necessarily like for like) for Jackson,

What are his attributes that he has displayed historically, that can help the team system, and contribute in a meaningful way that his highly specific attributes allow...whilst ALSO allowing the premier ruckman in the league, who also has highly specific yet different attributes, also flourish, and thus help the team achieve the aim of another premiership.

It's probably not about bombing it into the F50 pockets...I'd be pondering it a bit deeper than that.

 

Tom Hawkins 2 first quarter gf goals from ruck throw is why. The way the game is played a dominant ruck in forward line is critical. Then want from outside def centre square back. The team needs to have someone take advantage of forward 50 throw in and stoppages and get it to the magicians or goal themselves rather than have the ball taken away easy.

Forward 50 pocket bombs away!

Anyway thats how I see it working

17 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

So glad im not the only one on this @Lord Nev,  he has had 1 injury to sit him out for a long period.  before that was regularly in the AA squad and one of the best 2 rucks in the league.

With arguably the best most explosive midfield in the comp, imagine the advantage of having an elite ruck combo that rotates and is always working at close to 100%.

especially if the 5 man on the bench comes in and they can work a 50/50ish split in the ruck.

you don't go after a guy like this just because he is cheap, obviously they have a game plan he fits into.

Assuming he is fit, the other thing that Grundy would bring is his athleticism and the kms he can cover in a game.

Tmac was a massive out in terms of being a genuine second tall. But as big a factor was losing his up and down the ground running.

With our method, most players have to run upwards of 10 kms a game.

Get tmac fit and bring in Grundy,  that's two big players covering 25kms a game.

Throw in BB and Max (if fit) and that's another two genuine bigs getting to contests.

 

14 minutes ago, binman said:

Assuming he is fit, the other thing that Grundy would bring is his athleticism and the kms he can cover in a game.

Tmac was a massive out in terms of being a genuine second tall. But as big a factor was losing his up and down the ground running.

With our method, most players have to run upwards of 10 kms a game.

Get tmac fit and bring in Grundy,  that's two big players covering 25kms a game.

Throw in BB and Max (if fit) and that's another two genuine bigs getting to contests.

 

100% agree,  BB is another one who people have jumped on and is undeserving.  He carried our fwd line all year playing a lone hand without any help.  constantly having defends drop of in front of him because they know that's the percentage play.

Often having one arm held out of contests and being crashed into, No wonder he was banged up at the end of the year.  The value of having 2 fit talls in our fwd line will take a massive load of him.  Who knows, maybe even Weid could thrive in that set up too.

46 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

100% agree,  BB is another one who people have jumped on and is undeserving.  He carried our fwd line all year playing a lone hand without any help.  constantly having defends drop of in front of him because they know that's the percentage play.

Often having one arm held out of contests and being crashed into, No wonder he was banged up at the end of the year.  The value of having 2 fit talls in our fwd line will take a massive load of him.  Who knows, maybe even Weid could thrive in that set up too.

Yep.

And on top of that both Jackson and maxy looked hampered post bye. 

If all our talls can get cherry ripe and  Grundy comes in JVR will be the icing.

On 9/24/2022 at 11:16 AM, daisycutter said:

didn't expect to get a lesson on greek mythology on demonland 😂

DC why comment when I have admitted it is a spelling error. I don't even know of the word ! 

10 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Goody probably thinks an increase in clearances from the centre and around the ground stoppages will give us 10-20% more inside 50s, which will result in those half time leads being 45 points rather than 35?  And he might be right. I'm not expecting anything radically different to this year. We just hope for better conversion with personnel change and fitness

the conversion rate is a real problem already   More inside 50s will make the rate worse unless our kicking for goal improves

12 hours ago, bing181 said:

But even if that's true, so what?

It's as if Trade week itself has become some kind of spectator sport.

Richmond went back to back in 2019 - 20, yet didn't trade in a single player in the 2019, 20 and 21 trade periods, and haven't traded in a player since 2018. Also no trades in 2016 and 2017 either, so only a single traded-in player between 2015 and 2021, yet they still won the flag 3 times across that period.

You do realise Richmond solved their biggest deficiency with almost the best KPF in the game by adding Tom Lynch after missing their first back to back?

And that he was crucial in getting them over the line in the PF that year, and in several finals series since? 

That's the position we are in now and at the moment it doesn't look like we will be resolving our (same) weakness in the same way

I don't mind Grundy, but we're kidding ourselves if we think the same forward line is going to take us all the way next year. JVR better be bloody special to come in and be a KPF in a prem team in year 1.

While I'm at it - Richmond added Short, Baker and Pickett to their GF team in 2019. They used 2018 and 2019 to introduce new players to the team who went on to become crucial cogs. Short of Bedford coming in and out and rotating veterans like Melk and Hunt, we don't look close to doing the same and picked the premiership 22 even when their form or fitness did not justify it 

Also, Richmond were clearly the best team in 2018 but blew up a PF. We were not in 2022 and went out in straight sets. I think the situations are quite different and for you to make an example of what they did is less relevant than you think 

Edited September 29, 20222 yr by fr_ap

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

You do realise Richmond solved their biggest deficiency with almost the best KPF in the game by adding Tom Lynch after missing their first back to back?

And that he was crucial in getting them over the line in the PF that year, and in several finals series since? 

That's the position we are in now and at the moment it doesn't look like we will be resolving our (same) weakness in the same way

I don't mind Grundy, but we're kidding ourselves if we think the same forward line is going to take us all the way next year. JVR better be bloody special to come in and be a KPF in a prem team in year 1.

While I'm at it - Richmond added Short, Baker and Pickett to their GF team in 2019. They used 2018 and 2019 to introduce new players to the team who went on to become crucial cogs. Short of Bedford coming in and out and rotating veterans like Melk and Hunt, we don't look close to doing the same and picked the premiership 22 even when their form or fitness did not justify it 

Also, Richmond were clearly the best team in 2018 but blew up a PF. We were not in 2022 and went out in straight sets. I think the situations are quite different and for you to make an example of what they did is less relevant than you think 

Some good points but we did actually add Ben Brown which went long way towards winning us a Premiership....He was banged up this year, as were many others.  Our selection policy re injured players is one of the biggest things we need to change for following year.  Mostly i think we have the personnel.....Just some tweaks in gameplan, ball movement and selection integrity and we will be right in the mix again.

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

You do realise Richmond solved their biggest deficiency with almost the best KPF in the game by adding Tom Lynch after missing their first back to back?

And that he was crucial in getting them over the line in the PF that year, and in several finals series since? 

That's the position we are in now and at the moment it doesn't look like we will be resolving our (same) weakness in the same way

We can't do it in the same way as there are no KPF available let alone free agents as Lynch was.

You can't just conjure up a forward like Lynch from out of nowhere.

...so we take a different approach.

3 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Some good points but we did actually add Ben Brown which went long way towards winning us a Premiership....He was banged up this year, as were many others.  Our selection policy re injured players is one of the biggest things we need to change for following year.  Mostly i think we have the personnel.....Just some tweaks in gameplan, ball movement and selection integrity and we will be right in the mix again.

That was before the flag - we're talking now about what to add to sustain our run at the top.

 

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

We can't do it in the same way as there are no KPF available let alone free agents as Lynch was.

You can't just conjure up a forward like Lynch from out of nowhere.

...so we take a different approach.

Agree, we can only deal with what's available - my point was we probably need to do something to the forward half directly - trade, draft or FA - and it's wrong to say Richmond had no trades to win in 2019 because Lynch was a FA. 

14 hours ago, Redleg said:

What an absolute farce.

Scott has interview today and appointed later the same day.

Why have a Coaching Committee? Just appoint the first senior Coach who is prepared to do the job.

Complete joke and waste of time for people like Yze and other applicants and probably a distraction for their clubs as well.

The media hype will now kick in. 

 

Top post Red and I agree entirely. Essendrug arrogance of the highest order.

I would also add that not only was it a "waste of time" for the applicants (and committee members) but also grossly insulting to both.

14 hours ago, Redleg said:

What an absolute farce.

Scott has interview today and appointed later the same day.

Why have a Coaching Committee? Just appoint the first senior Coach who is prepared to do the job.

Complete joke and waste of time for people like Yze and other applicants and probably a distraction for their clubs as well.

The media hype will now kick in. 

 

The Bombers have a history of this. Even back when they went through the whole process only to appoint Knights who was in the next room as VFL coach. 

Pitiful and makes me sick. 

30 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Some good points but we did actually add Ben Brown which went long way towards winning us a Premiership....He was banged up this year, as were many others.  Our selection policy re injured players is one of the biggest things we need to change for following year.  Mostly i think we have the personnel.....Just some tweaks in gameplan, ball movement and selection integrity and we will be right in the mix again.

But we are idiots! That would be too logical for our club to take that approach.

32 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Some good points but we did actually add Ben Brown which went long way towards winning us a Premiership....He was banged up this year, as were many others.  Our selection policy re injured players is one of the biggest things we need to change for following year.  Mostly i think we have the personnel.....Just some tweaks in gameplan, ball movement and selection integrity and we will be right in the mix again.

You're right mate, great post. 

52 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Top post Red and I agree entirely. Essendrug arrogance of the highest order.

I would also add that not only was it a "waste of time" for the applicants (and committee members) but also grossly insulting to both.

 

47 minutes ago, layzie said:

The Bombers have a history of this. Even back when they went through the whole process only to appoint Knights who was in the next room as VFL coach. 

Pitiful and makes me sick. 

To be fair, they were in discussions with B Scott for 3 weeks apparently. 
But Essendon are still are weird, horribly fascinating ****show.

1 minute ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

 

To be fair, they were in discussions with B Scott for 3 weeks apparently. 
But Essendon are still are weird, horribly fascinating ****show.

Yeah fair enough and it doesn't actually make me sick. I'd never let a club like that make me sick. 

1 hour ago, layzie said:

The Bombers have a history of this. Even back when they went through the whole process only to appoint Knights who was in the next room as VFL coach. 

Pitiful and makes me sick. 

I wonder what the Club told Yze, you have the job unless Scott says he will do it, without going through any process of course.

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

I wonder what the Club told Yze, you have the job unless Scott says he will do it, without going through any process of course.

imo they would have absolutely have known re Scott. Yze was played fr optics as well as  it being most likely a massive stealing of our IP. The later part not being widely talked about. 

15 hours ago, bing181 said:

But even if that's true, so what?

It's as if Trade week itself has become some kind of spectator sport.

Richmond went back to back in 2019 - 20, yet didn't trade in a single player in the 2019, 20 and 21 trade periods, and haven't traded in a player since 2018. Also no trades in 2016 and 2017 either, so only a single traded-in player between 2015 and 2021, yet they still won the flag 3 times across that period.

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

You do realise Richmond solved their biggest deficiency with almost the best KPF in the game by adding Tom Lynch after missing their first back to back?

And that he was crucial in getting them over the line in the PF that year, and in several finals series since? 

That's the position we are in now and at the moment it doesn't look like we will be resolving our (same) weakness in the same way

I don't mind Grundy, but we're kidding ourselves if we think the same forward line is going to take us all the way next year. JVR better be bloody special to come in and be a KPF in a prem team in year 1.

While I'm at it - Richmond added Short, Baker and Pickett to their GF team in 2019. They used 2018 and 2019 to introduce new players to the team who went on to become crucial cogs. Short of Bedford coming in and out and rotating veterans like Melk and Hunt, we don't look close to doing the same and picked the premiership 22 even when their form or fitness did not justify it 

Also, Richmond were clearly the best team in 2018 but blew up a PF. We were not in 2022 and went out in straight sets. I think the situations are quite different and for you to make an example of what they did is less relevant than you think 

They also brought Caddy, Nankervis and Prestia in at the end of 2016, which spearheaded their charge to the 2017 flag, so I'm not sure @bing181 was right about "no trades in 2016".

Having said that, I agree with bing's general argument that people over-estimate the importance of trading in new players. And people also incorrectly assume that because a player moves club, that the player would have come to Melbourne had we asked and, accordingly, we didn't ask.

11 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

They also brought Caddy, Nankervis and Prestia in at the end of 2016, which spearheaded their charge to the 2017 flag, so I'm not sure @bing181 was right about "no trades in 2016".

Having said that, I agree with bing's general argument that people over-estimate the importance of trading in new players. And people also incorrectly assume that because a player moves club, that the player would have come to Melbourne had we asked and, accordingly, we didn't ask.

My argument is that I'd like us to get a player that may change the dynamics of how we play, because there was little evidence of Plan B. 

The Cats getting Stengle was probably seen as a minor acquisition before the season started, but ended up being hugely important. 

1 hour ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

 

To be fair, they were in discussions with B Scott for 3 weeks apparently. 
But Essendon are still are weird, horribly fascinating ****show.

But was only interviewed yesterday for the first time, after he said he was available.

Is this a minute of the Interview?

Coaching Committee head Robert Walls asks B. Scott do you want to Coach Essendon FC.

B. Scott answers in the affirmative.

R. Walls congratulates Scott on being appointed Coach.

J. Lewis asks R. Walls what are Scott's plans for the club.

K.Sheedy and D. Barham sitting in, tell Lewis to shut up and mind his own business.

Lewis stands and asks where he collects his payment.

Meeting ends, drinks are provided.

Phone rings, S. Dank on the line asking if anyone has found his missing files yet.

11 hours ago, Travy14 said:

100% agree,  BB is another one who people have jumped on and is undeserving.  He carried our fwd line all year playing a lone hand without any help.  constantly having defends drop of in front of him because they know that's the percentage play.

Often having one arm held out of contests and being crashed into, No wonder he was banged up at the end of the year.  The value of having 2 fit talls in our fwd line will take a massive load of him.  Who knows, maybe even Weid could thrive in that set up too.

Ben Brown did not CARRY our forward line. 30 goals from 19 goals from a full forward in a team that averaged 56.4 inside 50s per game (3rd in the comp) is ordinary at best.

Personally, I think Melksham did an excellent job keeping his man out of the contest when we only had one tall (plus Jackson/Gawn). The delivery and ball movement needs to be changed next year, but IMO Brown is just not strong enough and I doubt he plays more than 10 more games for MFC.

Games	Average Goals
Bayley Fritsch	2.29
Kysaiah Pickett	1.78
Tom McDonald	1.67
Ben Brown	1.58
Sam Weideman	1.3
Jake Melksham	1.09
Christian Petracca	0.79
Max Gawn	0.59
Ed Langdon	0.57
James Harmes	0.57
Toby Bedford	0.56
Luke Jackson	0.5
Charlie Spargo	0.42
Alex Neal-Bullen	0.39
Jack Viney	0.36
James Jordon	0.32
Tom Sparrow	0.3
Clayton Oliver	0.22
Jake Bowey	0.12
Trent Rivers	0.11
Angus Brayshaw	0.08
Christian Salem	0.08
Harrison Petty	0.06
Jake Lever	0.05

13 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But was only interviewed yesterday for the first time, after he said he was available.

Is this a minute of the Interview?

Coaching Committee head Robert Walls asks B. Scott do you want to Coach Essendon FC.

B. Scott answers in the affirmative.

R. Walls congratulates Scott on being appointed Coach.

J. Lewis asks R. Walls what are Scott's plans for the club.

K.Sheedy and D. Barham sitting in, tell Lewis to shut up and mind his own business.

Lewis stands and asks where he collects his payment.

Meeting ends, drinks are provided.

Phone rings, S. Dank on the line asking if anyone has found his missing files yet.

Red Essendon said from day one that they wanted an experienced coach.  Brad Scott, who I don't really like, coached NM pretty successfully for a good period of time and got good results whilst severely hamstrung by lack of TPP funds.  He's been in the industry all his life.  He's headed footy for the AFL and he's competing against blokes that have never coached at senior level in the AFL.

They've done their due diligence over a long period and decided, given that other senior coaches have declined to coach and Hird is just too controversial, that Scott is their man if they can get him to agree.  He says yes so why wait?  It's a no brainer and whilst it's nice to crapp on Essendon they've done exactly the right thing.

Do you think NM made Clarko go through an interview process and prove himself?  Na, Essendon did the right thing and I think the other applicants would have known that if Scott said yes they would miss.

 

11 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Ben Brown did not CARRY our forward line. 30 goals from 19 goals from a full forward in a team that averaged 56.4 inside 50s per game (3rd in the comp) is ordinary at best.

I actually think that is a good effort, when you have 3 blokes hanging off you at every contest and it's not kicked to you once, but bombed high into the left pocket.

18 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Red Essendon said from day one that they wanted an experienced coach.  Brad Scott, who I don't really like, coached NM pretty successfully for a good period of time and got good results whilst severely hamstrung by lack of TPP funds.  He's been in the industry all his life.  He's headed footy for the AFL and he's competing against blokes that have never coached at senior level in the AFL.

They've done their due diligence over a long period and decided, given that other senior coaches have declined to coach and Hird is just too controversial, that Scott is their man if they can get him to agree.  He says yes so why wait?  It's a no brainer and whilst it's nice to crapp on Essendon they've done exactly the right thing.

Do you think NM made Clarko go through an interview process and prove himself?  Na, Essendon did the right thing and I think the other applicants would have known that if Scott said yes they would miss.

 

Then as he probably told them some time ago he was in and as you said they have done their due diligence over a long period of time, why not just wait for the GF to end and then announce it.

Don't waste people's time and effort with a mock process, when you already have your man.

I wonder how the other applicants feel.

It was a farce, no matter how they spin it. 

Announced as interviewed today and then appointed. Oh yeah.

PS: It's fun to crapp on Essendon, they have had years of doing it to us.

.

Edited September 30, 20222 yr by Redleg