POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[Gawndy the Great 9,009]

26 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

https://webplayer.whooshkaa.com/show/1940?theme=light&episode=1008299

Hopefully that link works to the Nathan Jones segment on Dwayne Russells (🤮) show.

Poor Dwayne wanted Jones to say something negative about Melbourne but Nathan gave him very little.  Basically says yes they would want to be playing better but it's June so no need to panic.  Definitely hinted loading off field may be happening.

Why is it a big secret? if they are loading just somebody from the club come out and say it! It doesn’t have to be disrespectful to the oppos but give the fan base some explanation of the cliff dive drop in form.

 

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, CYB said:

Why is it a big secret? if they are loading just somebody from the club come out and say it! It doesn’t have to be disrespectful to the oppos but give the fan base some explanation of the cliff dive drop in form.

 

You don’t think that would give opposition coaches a few ideas how to exploit us? 

ie no chance in hell would the club ever come out and say it. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by 1964_2

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

8 minutes ago, CYB said:

Why is it a big secret? if they are loading just somebody from the club come out and say it! It doesn’t have to be disrespectful to the oppos but give the fan base some explanation of the cliff dive drop in form.

 

@binman has talked about it in other threads, but it seems related to the way players and teams never make excuses, even if there are genuine and impactuful injuries or illness.  Also I reckon it's part the veil of secrecy teams like to have, hiding selection, late changes, anything that could posibly give the oppisition an advantage.

Yes, it would help ease fans anxiety, but I think this stuff will only be confirmed years after the event other than in cryptic, vague refrences.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Vipercrunch

[layzie 32,811]

It still amazes me how much the loading theory is entrenched in the lexicon of our supporters. I even heard two casual fans who don't know much about the game talking about it at the Sydney match. It's supposed to be an afterthought not a hot topic of conversation , like extra reps in the gym. 

Not ruling it out as a factor but the life that this 'phenomenon' has taken on is ridiculous. 

[Jaded No More 67,637]

12 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Petty is multiple injections to play last 3 weeks

This KID is not getting anywhere near enough credit for basically carrying our backline the last 3 weeks while held together by fresh air and super glue. Just another reason I am so furious with May. Petty deserved a week off, instead he got smashed yet again, kept labouring out there, got hit in the head, is barely able to move his arm, and was still one of our best performers. 

I saw him getting taken off for a concussion test and he looked like he was about to cry. Has spent equal time on ground as getting medically checked the last month, and as soon as he was off we got a bag kicked on us. 

He will be special if he isn't already! 

[DeeZee 7,296]

Petty has been enormous.

im in awe if his efforts , fighting spirit and great courage.

[Gawndy the Great 9,009]

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

You don’t think that would give opposition coaches a few ideas how to exploit us? 

ie no chance in hell would the club ever come out and say it. 

I think they are doing a good job of that already. We saw how coaches can act in game when Longmuir realised Trac was not fit and they adjusted mid game. The moment they can detect we lack run. Exploit, Exploit, Exploit!

I listened to the Jonesy segment on SEN and he does mention it but quotes he is not close enough to the club to say definitively. But I chose to say he knows and he has all given us supporters the relief that it will pick back up.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by CYB

[binman 41,947]

52 minutes ago, layzie said:

It still amazes me how much the loading theory is entrenched in the lexicon of our supporters. I even heard two casual fans who don't know much about the game talking about it at the Sydney match. It's supposed to be an afterthought not a hot topic of conversation , like extra reps in the gym. 

Not ruling it out as a factor but the life that this 'phenomenon' has taken on is ridiculous. 

I don't get this layzie

Why is it supposed to be an afterthought,  not a hot topic of conversation?  

Even if, like your good self,  you are not convinced about loading, but are not ruling it out, i reckon it SHOULD be a hot topic of conversation. 

The thing i find bizarre is it's not a topic that is discussed AT ALL by the so called football analysts and media people when trying to work out what is happening at the dees.

Instead they cast around for all manner of causes and theories to explain our slump. Just as they did last year, and in 2018, 2019 and 2020 to explain the ultimate premiership winner's mid season form slumps (remarkably similar to ours). 

I mean, even if you don't buy loading, or think it only has a minor impact, surely the fact the last four premiers' seasons have followed almost the identical pattern (start strong and bank wins, mid season form slump including some truly mystifying losses to crap teams, finishing the season full of running and all having a very similar number of wins) would be worth noting and exploring.

It's possible the fact the last four premiers have followed an almost identical pattern on the way to their flag is simply a coincidence . But logic suggests that it is unlikely to be the case. And even if it is, the fact we are mirroring that same pattern this year is worthy of analysis and discussion. Instead they all ignore it all together.

After 8 rounds or so David King said 'Be very afraid, Melbourne are going at about 70 per cent of last year, and they’re already proving they’re 50 per cent better than the rest of the competition'.

We completely drop off a cliff and go from one of the fittest sides to one that getting overrun in second halves - again, just as we did last season at the same point in time. And David King jumps off us, is all symptoms but can't nail a cause. And doesn't even touch on loading as a potential factor. Bizarre. 

What i find really curious is why loading it is not discussed - even if only to debunk it - by any of the analysts, ex footballers or commentators. In other words, why isn't it a hot topic of conversation?

(I have made this point any number of times, but to be clear, i don't think loading is the only factor contributing to our currently predictable form slump. I do think it is the MAIN factor, but our injuries, the impact of covid and the flu, the form of individual players, other teams developing good plans to negate our strengths etc etc are all factors too)

 

[demonzz 109]

On 6/13/2022 at 5:52 PM, Demon Dynasty said:

The only good thing to come outta that (aside from a great cause) was the $$ i had on the Pies

Me too mate, the minute I heard May wasn't playing I was on the 1-39 pts bet. 

[Engorged Onion 10,124]

2 hours ago, layzie said:

It still amazes me how much the loading theory is entrenched in the lexicon of our supporters. I even heard two casual fans who don't know much about the game talking about it at the Sydney match. It's supposed to be an afterthought not a hot topic of conversation , like extra reps in the gym. 

Not ruling it out as a factor but the life that this 'phenomenon' has taken on is ridiculous. 

Imagine the disrespect to other teams in the presser?

Media Schlep: "Can you explain why you have lost 3 in a row, and your form slump?"

Goodwin: "We've got a belief that we are in the running to win a premiership, and when analysing the season fixture, we found that this block of weeks was a good time, to give ourselves the best chance to up our training loads, so that when the second season rolls around, the players will be in the best possible condition. We've been very fortunate to be 10 and 0, and our good fortune, gave us a buffer to really ramp it up, so the lads are more fatigued on the track, and bring that into the game. Ideally we wouldn't lose, there are other factors contributing of course, and I hear the anxiety of supporters, so essentially we've decided somewhere during the season, we need to push hard, and are willing to accept losses against other sides."

Media Schlep: "Why are you scratching your leg so much Simon?"

Edited June 14, 2022 by Engorged Onion

[layzie 32,811]

30 minutes ago, binman said:

I don't get this layzie

Why is it supposed to be an afterthought,  not a hot topic of conversation?  

Even if, like your good self,  you are not convinced about loading, but are not ruling it out, i reckon it SHOULD be a hot topic of conversation. 

The thing i find bizarre is it's not a topic that is discussed AT ALL by the so called football analysts and media people when trying to work out what is happening at the dees.

Instead they cast around for all manner of causes and theories to explain our slump. Just as they did last year, and in 2018, 2019 and 2020 to explain the ultimate premiership winner's mid season form slumps (remarkably similar to ours). 

I mean, even if you don't buy loading, or think it only has a minor impact, surely the fact the last four premiers' seasons have followed almost the identical pattern (start strong and bank wins, mid season form slump including some truly mystifying losses to crap teams, finishing the season full of running and all having a very similar number of wins) would be worth noting and exploring.

It's possible the fact the last four premiers have followed an almost identical pattern on the way to their flag is simply a coincidence . But logic suggests that it is unlikely to be the case. And even if it is, the fact we are mirroring that same pattern this year is worthy of analysis and discussion. Instead they all ignore it all together.

After 8 rounds or so David King said 'Be very afraid, Melbourne are going at about 70 per cent of last year, and they’re already proving they’re 50 per cent better than the rest of the competition'.

We completely drop off a cliff and go from one of the fittest sides to one that getting overrun in second halves - again, just as we did last season at the same point in time. And David King jumps off us, is all symptoms but can't nail a cause. And doesn't even touch on loading as a potential factor. Bizarre. 

What i find really curious is why loading it is not discussed - even if only to debunk it - by any of the analysts, ex footballers or commentators. In other words, why isn't it a hot topic of conversation?

(I have made this point any number of times, but to be clear, i don't think loading is the only factor contributing to our currently predictable form slump. I do think it is the MAIN factor, but our injuries, the impact of covid and the flu, the form of individual players, other teams developing good plans to negate our strengths etc etc are all factors too)

 

Look you're definitely right Binman and between us fans on DL in the know it should be a hot topic of conversation. But I'm hearing so many casual fans using it as an excuse now for our poor performances and expecting things to just spring up again when we deload or whatever. 

For what it's worth I'd love to hear it in a forum of ex players and commentators. That is precisely where I want to hear it, and i agree that is where it SHOULD be the hot topic rather than from Joe Shmo or random messenger chats from people  who know little about what they are actually talking about but is so adamant it's all about loading. So it's more of an annoyance than a gripe with any sort of proper reasoning.

I'll also note it's definitely not you that is one of these people Binman, if I could hear more of you and less of the peanut gallery of friends and bozos when it comes to loading I'd be happy. Please write the thesis :)

[binman 41,947]

This is the corresponding post game thread from last year. 

It makes for interesting reading in terms of how similar it is to this thread in terms of trying to explain our terrible form. It is more negative, which is understandable because we hadn't yet played one of the most dominant finals series of all time and won out first flag in 57 years.

And it's not the game day thread, so as the thread goes on people have had time to process the loss and are not as out there with their comments. Even so, some of the post are incredibly negative - and woefully wrong as history proved. 

If you supported another team and came to Demonland mid 2021 to get a handle on how likely it was the dees would win the flag, figuring dees fans would have good read on the situation, if you read the 2021 Queen's post game threadyou would have given the dees no chance of winning a flag. 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by binman

[D4Life 2,405]

56 minutes ago, binman said:

I don't get this layzie

Why is it supposed to be an afterthought,  not a hot topic of conversation?  

Even if, like your good self,  you are not convinced about loading, but are not ruling it out, i reckon it SHOULD be a hot topic of conversation. 

The thing i find bizarre is it's not a topic that is discussed AT ALL by the so called football analysts and media people when trying to work out what is happening at the dees.

Instead they cast around for all manner of causes and theories to explain our slump. Just as they did last year, and in 2018, 2019 and 2020 to explain the ultimate premiership winner's mid season form slumps (remarkably similar to ours). 

I mean, even if you don't buy loading, or think it only has a minor impact, surely the fact the last four premiers' seasons have followed almost the identical pattern (start strong and bank wins, mid season form slump including some truly mystifying losses to crap teams, finishing the season full of running and all having a very similar number of wins) would be worth noting and exploring.

It's possible the fact the last four premiers have followed an almost identical pattern on the way to their flag is simply a coincidence . But logic suggests that it is unlikely to be the case. And even if it is, the fact we are mirroring that same pattern this year is worthy of analysis and discussion. Instead they all ignore it all together.

After 8 rounds or so David King said 'Be very afraid, Melbourne are going at about 70 per cent of last year, and they’re already proving they’re 50 per cent better than the rest of the competition'.

We completely drop off a cliff and go from one of the fittest sides to one that getting overrun in second halves - again, just as we did last season at the same point in time. And David King jumps off us, is all symptoms but can't nail a cause. And doesn't even touch on loading as a potential factor. Bizarre. 

What i find really curious is why loading it is not discussed - even if only to debunk it - by any of the analysts, ex footballers or commentators. In other words, why isn't it a hot topic of conversation?

(I have made this point any number of times, but to be clear, i don't think loading is the only factor contributing to our currently predictable form slump. I do think it is the MAIN factor, but our injuries, the impact of covid and the flu, the form of individual players, other teams developing good plans to negate our strengths etc etc are all factors too)

 

Why - all the reporters / analysts go Demons loading nothing to see, just wait 3-4 weeks and they’ll be back! 
vs headlines:

- Freo on fire - Demons can be taken apart

- Swans on fire - no May no Demons!

- Pies pies pies Cox Cox Cox  - Demons are done their flaws exposed - fighting amongst one another blah blah blah!

 

[KLV 1,758]

On 6/13/2022 at 6:37 PM, Thehardtackler said:

I think the press wanted this decline. They kept asking whether we were unbeatable, until we were beaten. Now they think we are falling apart. I think we can right the ship pretty easily with some steady heads.

Caroline Wilson can hardly contain her glee 

[D4Life 2,405]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

This is the corresponding post game thread from last year. 

It makes for interesting reading in terms of how similar it is to this thread in terms of trying to explain our terrible form. It is more negative, which is understandable because we hadn't yet played one of the most dominant finals series of all time and won out first flag in 57 years.

And its not the game day thread, so as the thread goes on people have had time to process the loss. Even so, some of the post are incredibly negative.

If you supported another team and came to Demonland mid 2021 to get a handle on how likely it was the dees would win the flag, figuring dees fans would have good read on the situation, if you read the 2021 Queen's post game thread thread you would have given the dees no chance of winning a flag. 

 

Many Demonlander posters are glass half empty types and like a good self flagellation! 

[1964_2 2,357]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I don't get this layzie

Why is it supposed to be an afterthought,  not a hot topic of conversation?  

Even if, like your good self,  you are not convinced about loading, but are not ruling it out, i reckon it SHOULD be a hot topic of conversation. 

The thing i find bizarre is it's not a topic that is discussed AT ALL by the so called football analysts and media people when trying to work out what is happening at the dees.

Instead they cast around for all manner of causes and theories to explain our slump. Just as they did last year, and in 2018, 2019 and 2020 to explain the ultimate premiership winner's mid season form slumps (remarkably similar to ours). 

I mean, even if you don't buy loading, or think it only has a minor impact, surely the fact the last four premiers' seasons have followed almost the identical pattern (start strong and bank wins, mid season form slump including some truly mystifying losses to crap teams, finishing the season full of running and all having a very similar number of wins) would be worth noting and exploring.

It's possible the fact the last four premiers have followed an almost identical pattern on the way to their flag is simply a coincidence . But logic suggests that it is unlikely to be the case. And even if it is, the fact we are mirroring that same pattern this year is worthy of analysis and discussion. Instead they all ignore it all together.

After 8 rounds or so David King said 'Be very afraid, Melbourne are going at about 70 per cent of last year, and they’re already proving they’re 50 per cent better than the rest of the competition'.

We completely drop off a cliff and go from one of the fittest sides to one that getting overrun in second halves - again, just as we did last season at the same point in time. And David King jumps off us, is all symptoms but can't nail a cause. And doesn't even touch on loading as a potential factor. Bizarre. 

What i find really curious is why loading it is not discussed - even if only to debunk it - by any of the analysts, ex footballers or commentators. In other words, why isn't it a hot topic of conversation?

(I have made this point any number of times, but to be clear, i don't think loading is the only factor contributing to our currently predictable form slump. I do think it is the MAIN factor, but our injuries, the impact of covid and the flu, the form of individual players, other teams developing good plans to negate our strengths etc etc are all factors too)

 

“Loading” doesn’t generate clicks, sell newspapers.

And a key reason the media pump up champions (eg demons first 10 rounds), is in the desperate hope that they fail!  Gives them the opportunity to capitalise on both opposite extremes of reader/viewer emotions 

Edited June 14, 2022 by 1964_2

[binman 41,947]

6 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

“Loading” doesn’t generate clicks, sell newspapers

Maybe.

But i reckon discussing it goes against the footballer's code to never, under any circumstances provide any contextual info that even remotely could be perceived as making an excuse. 

And becuase ex footballers have always dominated the coverage of the game, that stupid mantra has infected the footy media.  

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Maybe.

But i reckon discussing it goes against the footballer's code to never, under any circumstances provide any contextual info that even remotely could be perceived as making an excuse. 

And becuase ex footballers have always dominated the coverage of the game, that stupid mantra has infected the footy media.  

Think Jonesy let the cat out of the bag on SEN today, but other than that agree with your point. 

[Engorged Onion 10,124]

6 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Think Jonesy let the cat out of the bag on SEN toda

Please expand on that, good sir...

[DemonWA 3,884]

13 minutes ago, binman said:

Maybe.

But i reckon discussing it goes against the footballer's code to never, under any circumstances provide any contextual info that even remotely could be perceived as making an excuse. 

And becuase ex footballers have always dominated the coverage of the game, that stupid mantra has infected the footy media.  

It would be never spoken about because it shouldn't be seen as an excuse -  All teams will vary loads at various times,  and all teams try to win each week regardless of where they are in that process. Only hand wringers on demonland look for a silver bullet or 'line of best fit in form'  to explain our current poor form away. At the moment we've only lost 3 games - Therefore the loading narrative can be maintained for now.  Loose a few more and the theory starts to unpick itself. 

[1964_2 2,357]

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Please expand on that, good sir...

N.Jones with Dwayne (hope the link works)

https://webplayer.whooshkaa.com/show/1940?theme=light&episode=1008299

[Engorged Onion 10,124]

1 minute ago, 1964_2 said:

N.Jones with Dwayne (hope the link works)

https://webplayer.whooshkaa.com/show/1940?theme=light&episode=1008299

any chance you could guide me to the nearest second, so I don't have to listen to Dwayne? 😘

[Demon Dynasty 17,092]

37 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Many Demonlander posters are glass half empty types and like a good self flagellation! 

Excuse me D4 ... I reckon BBO is more a glass half full Shiraz person myself!

And not the standard run-o'-the-mill rubbish either ty.  Only premium vintage for old uncle i would reckon

[D4Life 2,405]

5 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

any chance you could guide me to the nearest second, so I don't have to listen to Dwayne? 😘

DerWayne viewer appeal is one of the world’s modern mysteries!

[1964_2 2,357]

4 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

any chance you could guide me to the nearest second, so I don't have to listen to Dwayne? 😘

Multiple comments that alluded to much the same point:- but 4 - 5 mins in, he says something like “who knows, maybe they are doing an element of planning to make sure they are peaking at the end of the year”  basically refuting Dwayne’s speculation that we are not fit enough.