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Is David Noble the new Mark Neeld?


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A slight diversion while I'm talking Ess.

I drove past the Hangar/Essendon Fields on the backway to Tullamarine airport recently.  What a desolate, inhospitable place it is.  Didn't see any 'fields' except the ovals.  Set in an industrial estate with not a skerrick of urban life around it.  Not to mention noise and air pollution!

Give me Casey any day of the week.

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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Not sure Alistair Clarkson would be doing much better with North’s current list, reminds me of us in about 2013, a bunch of kids who aren’t ready for the brutal realities of league footy week to week with no senior players to guide them…

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15 minutes ago, Nasher said:

If that’s the logic they applied then their decision makers should be sacked. Fagan was an extremely experienced coach who had been in the system a long time, in a coaching capacity. A quick glance at his resume would reveal he is very clear qualified to be a senior coach, even if his most recent role had been administrative. Could the same be said of Noble?

Noble does have experience as a coach but it was fair while back.

Fagan seemed to be working as Clarkson's right hand man for a while there and Noble did similar with Fagan.

Because of the success of Fagan that style of appointment was now flavour of the month. An experienced, steady hand at the wheel.

I do think the decision makers have a lot to answer for...it's often the case in AFL footy, they just go with what seems in vogue at the time rather than make sound decisions.

Mark Williams is case in point...nobody wanted him but surprise, surprise the guy can coach.

If one of these older coaches likes Williams ever gets another senior gig and has success just watch other clubs follow.

Right now it's gone back to the younger gun assistant, it's why Yze will be a senior coach in the next year or so...

Voss is leading the charge for the recycled coach along with Ratten...

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No, he is not North's version of Mark Neeld.

With North exiting so much talent in one go, their rebuild was always going to be long and hard. Don't get me wrong, they are playing as badly as us at our worst, but I believe Noble knows what he is doing and is staying strong to it. Goodwin, Nicks, even Hardwick had the vultures circling early on as the players struggled to play under their direction. 

North's 18 - 23 list is actually very strong, but I reckon it might not click until Ziebel and Goldstein can hand over their reigns to some young leaders who really take ownership of Noble's vision and ideas. 

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2 hours ago, praha said:

I think the players actually like Noble. Neeld was pretty obviously disliked and no one seemed to play *for him*.

North simply aren't up to it and don't have the cattle. 

There is one simple fact at North they don't have the cattle. I went to the first game of the year against the Hawks. They lead that game for more than  half the game. The Difference they had no forward to take a big grab. The Hawks did. They would have won the game with Brown at full forward. A fact that was not lost on my North mate. 

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9 hours ago, AC/DeeC said:

Noble, the new Neeld?

mmm...lets see...

It's a bit like trying to compare:

  • inches with centimetres.
  • pounds with dollars
  • miles with kilometres
  • Fb with E
  • Turnbull with Morrison
  • Fitzroy with Brisbane

The big difference between the two is one of them hasn't been sacked...not yet...

Until that happens, he's close but..until then, no cigar.

If it does, will it be the catalyst that launches North to Tassie? :blink:

 

 

I really think that your comments are very harsh but when you have a team that has very few quality players then you get the results you deserve.

fyi:- Roosey is on the Board and I am sure he has some input. Look at us... it took for 2013 to 2018 to see permanent change.

 

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The thing i can see that Neeld and Noble have in common is probably pushing the kids into key roles on the field at the expense of senior players who are still up to the standard. 

they've had quite a rapid list turn over, which can be disruptive as well, but it's really hard for the kids to build confidence when you've got a JHF coming up against Andy Brayshaw and getting beaten up on for 120 minutes

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The thing is Mark Neeld came from collingwood and coaching under Mick Malthouse where they played finals and won a flag. Mark tried to bring things into melbourne but our players just weren't ready for that yet as we were young and then when he tried to come down a bit hard on them they didn't like that.

Mark Neeld also lost many players and I don't think Noble has. 

Until nth start getting flogged by 100 points or even 168 like we did I don't think they are but gee they aren't far off. 

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1 hour ago, sisso said:

Not sure Alistair Clarkson would be doing much better with North’s current list, reminds me of us in about 2013, a bunch of kids who aren’t ready for the brutal realities of league footy week to week with no senior players to guide them…

Clarkson no doubt is very good, but it is often overlooked just how good the list he had was and then how much he struggled when most of his stars left.

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3 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Also, Paul Roos has been paid a truckload by Norf as some sort of consultant.

The best thing Roos did for us was he took pressure off the club and was able to deflect a lot of the media scrutiny on us at the time.

He can’t do that for Norf in his current role (whatever it is).

Although last year Roos was in the coaches box game day and one of the first things he did was to uncomplicate the game style.

This year he is in US and they have returned to playing a complicated game plan that not even a hardened experience group could play.

Not Neeld but may come close to ruining a generation of North players. 

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I don't want to compare those 2 blokes. But also we have been through what North are going through so there is some sympathy for them. Why can't this happen to the filth or geelong.

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1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Neeld may have been the right man in the wrong place. But we'll never know. I think he was best suited to a well-oiled machine that needed maintenance. Building a team from inexperienced and shell shocked boys was not his thing.

100% agree. I think some of sh*tcanning that Neeld gets on here is unwarranted. 

Grant Thomas reported at the time that Neeld had lost the players before rd 1 of his first year. Most of us thought that Grant Thomas was being a headline seeker. In hindsight, Thomas must have had a source within the playing group. If that was the case, yes Neeld must have had man management issues, but it's also an indictment on the playing group at the time.

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1 hour ago, dl4e said:

I don't want to compare those 2 blokes. But also we have been through what North are going through so there is some sympathy for them. Why can't this happen to the filth or geelong.

Simply mate. The scrutiny those clubs face after a few years down is enough to preempt decisions to avoid long "rebuilds". Melbourne and North both avoid that internal and external scrutiny. It took the AFL getting involved with Melbourne for things to turn around. Same will happen to North. Even if that means moving to Tassie.

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Just now, mo64 said:

100% agree. I think some of sh*tcanning that Neeld gets on here is unwarranted. 

Grant Thomas reported at the time that Neeld had lost the players before rd 1 of his first year. Most of us thought that Grant Thomas was being a headline seeker. In hindsight, Thomas must have had a source within the playing group. If that was the case, yes Neeld must have had man management issues, but it's also an indictment on the playing group at the time.

You still had lingering remnants of the Daniher era. Bailey was an egg shell, didn't hold the players accountable which was evident in how volatile the performances were. Neeld came in and gave a rocket to the likes of Green, Rivers, Davey, Garland, players that simply didn't play like we needed them to play at that point in their careers. He basically lost those Daniher era players, they had the lockerroom presence and thus the playing group was lost. It's no surprise that Viney, in his second game, was the only one prepared to speak up. How embarrassing that must have been for veteran players, to have a 2 gamer giving you a rocket. Neeld was a bad coach but he had the right ideas. He needed to drill in standards and hold the team accountable. 

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Neeld cops it and understandably so, but in many ways, I don’t think he ever stood much of a chance. Schwab was the CEO who appointed Neeld, Schwab had no support from the playing group, Neeld was seen as his man and was therefore at a genuine chance of having lost the playing group before he ever met them.

 

Edited by Rod Grinter Riot Squad
Autocorrect changed name, couldn’t stomach some pedantic [censored] embarrassing me by pointing it out again.
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50 minutes ago, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Neeld cops it and understandably so, but in many ways, I don’t think he ever stood much of a chance. Schwab was the CEO who appointed Neeld, Schwab had no support from the playing group, Neeld was seen as his man and was therefore at a genuine chance of having lost the playing group before he ever met them.

 

In fairness to, or explanation of, Mark Neeld I was under the impression that he was given the brief to turn the place upside down.  Unfortunately he did more than that, he levelled it.  A dramatic failure of the club at almost every level.

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8 hours ago, mo64 said:

I actually think North have got a core of good young talent, and they'll be fine in a couple of years. Thomas, LDU, JHF, Simpkin, Powell, Stephenson, Larkey, Zurhaar, Xerri, Phillips are all under 25.

The problem for North is they are rudderless, and that falls on Noble. Obviously they miss their only true on-field leader in Cunnington. But somehow Noble has managed to lose the playing group after promising signs last year.

The media will hound Noble, which is what they do to all new coaches who are struggling. Whether Noble can ride out the storm is the question. Personally, I think the club needs to come out in support of him, and stay the course.

 

I actually follow Norf pretty closely (for a Deez guy). You are right on one thing mo64, there is some talent down at Arden Street. Disagree that Noble's not the guy or that he's lost the playing group though. Norf are where they are due to decisions made under Brayshaw, who's a complete &^%$, at the end of the Scott regime. Shaw was their Neeld . . . God bless his heart. Noble's been left cleaning up the rubble. 

And FWIW, IMHO . . . I'd suggest Norf's list is in a lot better shape long term than Wet Coast's or Essendscum, 

Edited by Queanbeyan Demon
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One thing I will never get is why Neeld still gets mentioned as much as he does. In the top 5 coaches of your lifetime thread, some people went out of their way to emphasize how shizen he was as a coach despite it being divorced from the thread subject.

That said, we may as well deal with the topic at hand.

The Neeld appointment was a calamity. However, it was an indictment on the whole club and not just one man. CS, Gaddy Lyon and Cuddles Connolly to me were dead keen to find a bloke to validate their views of Bails' failing as a coach and found their willing vessel. 

For mine, he seemed happy to have just gotten the job and thus was willing to go along with whatever CS, the Gaz Man and Don McLardy were demanding to get it (he pretty much admitted he was much too deferential to CS's assessment of the playing group during his Open Mike interview).

As a result, he ended up trying to being something he wasn't by nature and ended up alienating the playing group with the brazen attitude he was tasked with having by those upstairs. I also got the feeling that because just getting a job was his metric for success he never really thought too much about what would happen after he got it. His line that 'I've made it this far by doing it my way' gave me the feeling that he hadn't given much thought to the metric he'd apply to what being a successful coach was, thus he was much too malleable in regards people who didn't really have the team's best interests in mind.

When the reality bus did hit and his dreams were thrown back in his face, it was almost a relief that he was moved on and not just for the supporters. I was genuinely worried about the bloke (and feel bad for him and his family who might be reading pretty derogatory stuff about him online) on a mental health front. It was no coincidence that in his last set of press conferences that he regularly brought blokes like Chris Dawes and Jack Grimes along as I'm sure that facing a press pack sensing blood would have been pretty traumatizing.

I'm sure David Noble is feeling it at the moment but I have yet to see anything approaching stuff like Neeld’s first presser after we lost to the Lions (consequently used by the AFL media training department as an example of how not to go about it) and his performance at the presser after 148 (he reminded me of David Brent in The Office UK Christmas specials at the D grade celebrity event after he got the drink thrown in his face). Let's not pretend he's not as feeling as relaxed as if he's on a beach in Bermuda  relaxing on a banana lounge with a cocktail in his left hand. But I haven't felt that he's approached those levels (or even those of Rhyce Shaw).

With that said, I'd prefer the Neeld stuff be given a permanent break. The bloke works for the Geelong Supercats as the CEO. He's realized the footy coaching deal wasn't for him and thus changed careers. I remember getting yelled at by a member of the board for referencing Neeld in 2014 as apparently I was 'living in the past and causing division'. I think it was perfectly germane to talk about him as we were coming out of his era. But being hung up on him nearly 10 years later? Seems a bit excessive.

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5 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

One thing I will never get is why Neeld still gets mentioned as much as he does. In the top 5 coaches of your lifetime thread, some people went out of their way to emphasize how shizen he was as a coach despite it being divorced from the thread subject.

That said, we may as well deal with the topic at hand.

The Neeld appointment was a calamity. However, it was an indictment on the whole club and not just one man. CS, Gaddy Lyon and Cuddles Connolly to me were dead keen to find a bloke to validate their views of Bails' failing as a coach and found their willing vessel. 

For mine, he seemed happy to have just gotten the job and thus was willing to go along with whatever CS, the Gaz Man and Don McLardy were demanding to get it (he pretty much admitted he was much too deferential to CS's assessment of the playing group). As such, he ended up trying to being something he wasn't and ended up alienating the playing group with his brazen attitude. I also got the feeling that because just getting a job was his metric for success he never really thought too much about what would happen after he got it. His line that 'I've made it this far by doing it my way' gave me the feeling that he hadn't given much thought to the metric he'd apply to what being a successful coach was, thus he was much too malleable in regards people who didn't really have the team's best interests in mind.

When the reality bus did hit and his dreams were thrown back in his face, it was almost a relief that he was moved on and not just for the supporters. I was genuinely worried about the bloke (and feel bad for him and his family who might be reading pretty derogatory stuff about him) on a mental health front. It was no coincidence that in his last set of press conferences that he regularly brought blokes like Chris Dawes and Jack Grimes along as I'm sure that facing a press pack sensing blood would have been pretty traumatizing.

I'm sure David Noble is feeling it at the moment but I have yet to see anything approaching stuff like his first presser after we lost to the Lions (consequently used by the AFL media training department as an example of how not to go about it) and his performance at the presser after 148 (he reminded me of David Brent in the first series of The Office UK Christmas specials at the D grade celebrity even after he got the drink thrown in his face). Let's not pretend he's not as feeling as relaxed as if he's on a beach in Bermuda  relaxing on a banana lounge with a cocktail in his left hand. But I haven't felt that he's approached those levels (or even those of Rhyce Shaw).

With that said, I'd prefer the Neeld stuff be given a break. The bloke works for the Geelong Supercats as the CEO. He's realized the footy coaching deal wasn't for him and thus changed careers. I remember getting yelled at by a member of the board for referencing Neeld in 2014 as apparently I was 'living in the past and causing division'. It think it was perfectly germane to talk about him as we were coming out of his era. But being hung up on him nearly 10 years later? Seems a bit excessive.

Great post CBF.

BTW . . . I'm still hung up about the Dennis Jones regime Mate!

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