Jump to content

The very, very contentious 50 for Dissent Rule

picket fence
in Melbourne Demons

Featured Replies

 

I've never had a problem with the umpires - insanely difficult job and more grey areas than most sports in the world.
Yes, decisions are frustrating but, for the most part, it's swings and roundabouts.

This rule rule however is a complete disaster and has the potential to make the gap and animosity between players, fans and umpires even worse (if it hasn't already).  Players must respect umpires and there should be strict penalties enforced for those who don't (Toby Greene).  Umpire abuse was already a reportable offense and could result in a free kick in other years; enforce the rules that are already on the books.

To hear on the mics an umpire describe two players 40m away, raising their hands in the air as 'abuse' is bewildering and completely inappropriate.  

 

  • Quote
    • Like 6
    • Thanks 1

    The players will learn quickly.

    Cultural change across the game will happen more slowly but it has to start somewhere.

    Edited by Axis of Bob

  • Quote
    • Like 2
     
    4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    The players will learn quickly.

    Cultural change across the game will happen more slowly but it has to start somewhere.

    Learn what??

    Don't put your arms out? OK. What will that accomplish? What problem does that solve?

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    15 minutes ago, Chook said:

    Never agreed with Robbo more in my life. The AFL has to back down.

    Same. Disappointed where Gary Lyon went with it. But at least Robbo had the balls to call it as it is and the AFL have to back down for the good of the game. 

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    The players will learn quickly.

    Cultural change across the game will happen more slowly but it has to start somewhere.

    Learn what though? To become absolute robots? Is that really what we want? 
     

    We’ve added so many rules to try to free up the movement in the game and get scoring and skill back in to the game. Players like Gawn, Petracca and Pickett bring joy and excitement to the game, it’s why we watch.

    Part of players expressing themselves has to be frustration after a free kick. That’s human and normal.

    A clamp down at abuse should be aimed at abuse. At the moment it’s a clamp down on putting your arms up. Rather than letting the umpires call it how they see it and use their judgment they’ve turned them in to the ‘arms out’ police. 

  • Quote
    • Like 5
    • Thanks 1
    10 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

    Players will learn. 

    And then, much, much, much later, supporters finally will too.

    There is a culture of umpire abuse in AFL football at all levels. It's not only accepted but often encouraged as 'passion'. Umpires are scapegoats because there will always be bad decisions in 2 hours of chaos. It needs to stop.

    At lower levels of football many teams are having to sacrifice a player to umpire the game .... and those players nearly always say how much more difficult it is than they thought it would be. I suspect they also come out of it far more respectful of umpires.

    Here, here!!  A of B. Well said. It has been open slather on umpires for far too long, and the reaction to my original posting on here was sadly all to predictable. Clearly there are many Demonlanders who consider umpire abuse as a blood sport. Fortunately, the game’s powers that be have belatedly disagreed. The game will be far better for these modifications to the rules, particularly when everyone gets used to them.

    l seem to remember similar outcry when the out of bounds on the full rule was bought in, the centre square rule, and more recently the 6:6:6 rule. Now that they have been in place for a while, very few question them. So it will be once these new interpretations have been around for a while, although there will always be some who resist any sort of change. Such is life!

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    I am happy with the spotlight on the umpires because it has been atrocious for the last few years. The AFL needs to do a major overhaul in this area including the MRO,  AFL tribunal and invest more in technology and it’s place in helping umpires officiate the game.

    I support the idea of It turning into a full time profession supported with a proper academy for the up and coming. When they are subject to similar standards and expectations (and not a PT weekend job) there will be a noticeable improvement in the consistent and fair adjudication.
     

    I even have a purpose statement ready for the new dept… ‘We are irrelevant and should not be noticed’. Achieve that and we can stop this debate once and for all. 

  • Quote
    • Like 2
     
    4 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

    .. Clearly there are many Demonlanders who consider umpire abuse as a blood sport. 

    I don’t recall anyone here supporting umpire abuse.   I disagree with you on this. My arms are wide out and I’m rolling my eyes.  I hope you don’t feel abused. 

  • Quote
    • Like 2
    • Haha 1

    19 minutes ago, Chook said:

    Learn what??

    Don't put your arms out? OK. What will that accomplish? What problem does that solve?

    The players will learn to quickly accept the decision and move on. 

    That will accomplish the demonstration to the public that players should accept the decision of umpires.

    Kids who grow up knowing that complaining about umpiring is destructive (rather than 'passionate' or 'not robotic') will treat umpires differently than their parents and grandparents did/do. They'll think that complaining about umpires is something that old people people do because they 'don't get it'.

    The change will take time but it has to start somewhere. 

  • Quote
    • Like 3
    42 minutes ago, picket fence said:

    Agree Robbo right on the money..

    IMO. This translates to..

    AFL PLEASE PAY ATTENTION or risk losing both the fabric of the game and most importantly

    THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT IT

    Get woke ... Go Broke.

  • Quote

    This is becoming complete farce.

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    • Angry 1
    17 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    The players will learn to quickly accept the decision and move on. 

    That will accomplish the demonstration to the public that players should accept the decision of umpires.

    Kids who grow up knowing that complaining about umpiring is destructive (rather than 'passionate' or 'not robotic') will treat umpires differently than their parents and grandparents did/do. They'll think that complaining about umpires is something that old people people do because they 'don't get it'.

    The change will take time but it has to start somewhere. 

    And legislating against one particular body action (arms out) will fully accomplish that goal? Great! I love that it's so easy!!!

  • Quote

    2 minutes ago, Chook said:

    And legislating against one particular body action (arms out) will fully accomplish that goal? Great! I love that it's so easy!!!

    That is a ridiculous and reductive comment.

    Arms out is one action among a range of things that an umpire can penalise. Giving the umpire the finger or telling them they are a moron are also actions that can be penalised. The intent is the same and the message is the same .... accept the decision of the umpire and stop complaining.

    Just because you've spent your life complaining about umpiring doesn't mean that juniors have to follow in those footsteps.

  • Quote
    • Like 2
    • Shocked 1

    WTF is arms out in a demonstrative manner..?!  Seriously, no wonder crowd numbers are down. 
    You can express emotion inwardly, towards yourself but you can’t throw your arms out… [censored] this rule off. 

    Edited by Ethan Tremblay

  • Quote
    • Like 3
    4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    That is a ridiculous and reductive comment.

    Arms out is one action among a range of things that an umpire can penalise. Giving the umpire the finger or telling them they are a moron are also actions that can be penalised. The intent is the same and the message is the same .... accept the decision of the umpire and stop complaining.

    Just because you've spent your life complaining about umpiring doesn't mean that juniors have to follow in those footsteps.

    I haven't spent my life complaining about umpires - that's reductive. I'm complaining about them now though because they're being asked to do something that's unnecessary to achieve the aim.

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    1 minute ago, Chook said:

    I'm complaining about them now though because they're being asked to do something that's unnecessary to achieve the aim.

    What's the aim?

  • Quote
    8 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    That is a ridiculous and reductive comment.

    Arms out is one action among a range of things that an umpire can penalise. Giving the umpire the finger or telling them they are a moron are also actions that can be penalised. The intent is the same and the message is the same .... accept the decision of the umpire and stop complaining.

    Just because you've spent your life complaining about umpiring doesn't mean that juniors have to follow in those footsteps.

    We are talking about a player showing frustration in the heat if the moment. No other sport in the world would you get penalised for simply throwing your arms up at a decision

    you reckon that is the same as a giving the finger to the ump? Laughable mate

  • Quote
    • Like 4

    6 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    What's the aim?

    You tell me.

    But without resorting to games, I think the aim is ultimately to eliminate the air of enmity that exists around the supporters and the umpires, which can't be done by a binary "arms out equals dissent" type of umpiring.

    Edited by Chook

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    People may get to fear tyrants, but they will not respect them particularly when they are blatantly overzealous.  That is human nature. 
     

    Sure I think we all agree when players confront an umpire verbally or in an intimidating manner and dispute their decision a penalty is appropriate but asking a question or holding one’s arms out????

    It will have the opposite effect - pity the AFL never admit they make mistakes. 

    Similarly with the random implementation of the statue in the mark rule - “we both saw him play on but I didn’t call it - 50 meters!”

    Edited by monoccular

  • Quote
    • Like 3
    3 minutes ago, Chook said:

    You tell me.

    But without resorting to games, I think the aim is ultimately to eliminate the air of enmity that exists around the supporters and theumpires, which can't be done by a binary "arms out equals dissent" type of umpiring.

    You said that it wasn't needed to achieve the aim. I was hoping for clarification on that aim, since you believed the changes wouldn't achieve it.

    What do you believe would "eliminate the air of enmity that exists around the supporters and the umpires"?

  • Quote
    •  

    I have said it before, if all umpires cannot be full time professionals then there should be at least one full time professional umpire for every game with the power to overturn any bad decisions by the others if blatantly obvious. Should reduce bad decisions significantly. Currently all umpires act like best buddies and unwilling to call out a bad decision by their mates. Having a master umpire should give that separation of roles, relationships and responsibilities.

    Edited by John Crow Batty

  • Quote
    • Like 2

    Penalise abuse, swearing aimed at the umpire etc but don’t penalise a player who simply throws their arms up or out. It’s essentially an instinctive behaviour that people do in their everyday life when questioning something. I personally dislike the AFL and umpires even more now. 

  • Quote
    • Like 5
    • Thanks 1

    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
    Reply to this topic...
    Go to topic listing

    Featured Content

    • GAMEDAY: Collingwood

      It's Game Day and the Demons face a monumental task as they take on the top-of-the-table Magpies in one of the biggest games on the Dees calendar: the King's Birthday Big Freeze MND match. Can the Demons defy the odds and claim a massive scalp to keep their finals hopes alive?

        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 53 replies
      Demonland

    • CASEY: Collingwood

      It was freezing cold at Mission Whitten Stadium where only the brave came out in the rain to watch a game that turned out to be as miserable as the weather.
      The Casey Demons secured their third consecutive victory, earning the four premiership points and credit for defeating a highly regarded Collingwood side, but achieved little else. Apart perhaps from setting the scene for Monday’s big game at the MCG and the Ice Challenge that precedes it.
      Neither team showcased significant skill in the bleak and greasy conditions, at a location that was far from either’s home territory. Even the field umpires forgot where they were and experienced a challenging evening, but no further comment is necessary.

        • Thanks
      • 4 replies
      Demonland

    • NON-MFC: Round 13

      Follow all the action from every Round 13 clash excluding the Dees as the 2025 AFL Premiership Season rolls on. With Melbourne playing in the final match of the round on King's Birthday, all eyes turn to the rest of the competition. Who are you tipping to win? And more importantly, which results best serve the Demons’ finals aspirations? Join the discussion and keep track of the matches that could shape the ladder and impact our run to September.

        • Thanks
      • 216 replies
      Demonland

    • PREVIEW: Collingwood

      Having convincingly defeated last year’s premier and decisively outplayed the runner-up with 8.2 in the final quarter, nothing epitomized the Melbourne Football Club’s performance more than its 1.12 final half, particularly the eight consecutive behinds in the last term, against a struggling St Kilda team in the midst of a dismal losing streak. Just when stability and consistency were anticipated within the Demon ranks, they delivered a quintessential performance marked by instability and ill-conceived decisions, with the most striking aspect being their inaccuracy in kicking for goal, which suggested a lack of preparation (instead of sleeping in their hotel in Alice, were they having a night on the turps) rather than a well-rested team. Let’s face it - this kicking disease that makes them look like raw amateurs is becoming a millstone around the team’s neck.

        • Thanks
      • 1 reply
      Demonland

    • CASEY: Sydney

      The Casey Demons were always expected to emerge victorious in their matchup against the lowly-ranked Sydney Swans at picturesque Tramway Oval, situated in the shadows of the SCG in Moore Park. They dominated the proceedings in the opening two and a half quarters of the game but had little to show for it. This was primarily due to their own sloppy errors in a low-standard game that produced a number of crowded mauls reminiscent of the rugby game popular in old Sydney Town. However, when the Swans tired, as teams often do when they turn games into ugly defensive contests, Casey lifted the standard of its own play and … it was off to the races. Not to nearby Randwick but to a different race with an objective of piling on goal after goal on the way to a mammoth victory. At the 25-minute mark of the third quarter, the Demons held a slender 14-point lead over the Swans, who are ahead on the ladder of only the previous week's opposition, the ailing Bullants. Forty minutes later, they had more than fully compensated for the sloppiness of their earlier play with a decisive 94-point victory, that culminated in a rousing finish which yielded thirteen unanswered goals. Kicks hit their targets, the ball found itself going through the middle and every player made a contribution.

        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 1 reply
      Demonland

    • REPORT: St. Kilda

      Hands up if you thought, like me, at half-time in yesterday’s game at TIO Traeger Park, Alice Springs that Melbourne’s disposal around the ground and, in particular, its kicking inaccuracy in front of the goals couldn’t get any worse. Well, it did. And what’s even more damning for the Melbourne Football Club is that the game against St Kilda and its resurgence from the bottomless pit of its miserable start to the season wasn’t just lost through poor conversion for goal but rather in the 15 minutes when the entire team went into a slumber and was mugged by the out-of-form Saints. Their six goals two behinds (one goal less than the Demons managed for the whole game) weaved a path of destruction from which they were unable to recover. Ross Lyon’s astute use of pressure to contain the situation once they had asserted their grip on the game, and Melbourne’s self-destructive wastefulness, assured that outcome. The old adage about the insanity of repeatedly doing something and expecting a different result, was out there. Two years ago, the score line in Melbourne’s loss to the Giants at this same ground was 5 goals 15 behinds - a ratio of one goal per four scoring shots - was perfectly replicated with yesterday’s 7 goals 21 behinds. 
      This has been going on for a while and opens up a number of questions. I’ll put forward a few that come to mind from this performance. The obvious first question is whether the club can find a suitable coach to instruct players on proper kicking techniques or is this a skill that can no longer be developed at this stage of the development of our playing group? Another concern is the team's ability to counter an opponent's dominance during a run on as exemplified by the Saints in the first quarter. Did the Demons underestimate their opponents, considering St Kilda's goals during this period were scored by relatively unknown forwards? Furthermore, given the modest attendance of 6,721 at TIO Traeger Park and the team's poor past performances at this venue, is it prudent to prioritize financial gain over potentially sacrificing valuable premiership points by relinquishing home ground advantage, notwithstanding the cultural significance of the team's connection to the Red Centre? 

        • Thanks
      • 4 replies
      Demonland
    View All