1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Which players?

keith grieg for a start - won it twice

buckley effectively played as a wingman, as did cooney

12 hours ago, rollinson 65 said:

We were all petrified when Hannan got his hands on the ball n the the quarter. Where were you, my Lord ??

 

You might have been, don't include everyone into your panic attack.

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Which players?

Keith Greig for one, got a couple if I recall.

2 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

keith grieg for a start - won it twice

buckley effectively played as a wingman, as did cooney

Footy has changed significantly since those days. So effectively 1 permanent winger has won the brownlow in what 40 odd years. 

Buckley was effectively an inside midfielder who could also rest up forward or half back.

Not sure how much you saw of Buckley but his ultimate best was when he was starting in the middle.

He was rarely a winger.

I'd like to formally request all of their heat maps

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Which players?

off the top of my head.....keith greig (2), dipper

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Footy has changed significantly since those days. So effectively 1 permanent winger has won the brownlow in what 40 odd years. 

Buckley was effectively an inside midfielder who could also rest up forward or half back.

Not sure how much you saw of Buckley but his ultimate best was when he was starting in the middle.

He was rarely a winger.

buckley definitely played wing a lot

and i personally think the brownlow is one of the most overrated awards in football; it's voted on by the maggots, for god's sake

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

off the top of my head.....keith greig (2), dipper

Those were the days.  In the 70s and 80’s you could win a Brownlow playing anywhere (ruck, full forward, back pocket, wing, half forward).  None of those players would win if playing today. The medias obsession with pure stats has rubbed off on the umps.

3 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Those were the days.  In the 70s and 80’s you could win a Brownlow playing anywhere (ruck, full forward, back pocket, wing, half forward).  None of those players would win if playing today. The medias obsession with pure stats has rubbed off on the umps.

and the addition of the centre square cut down winger's opportunities

conversely the defensive possession mindset of playing along the boundaries has probably helped wingers

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Which players?

 

Flower of course should have won at least 6

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by Bimbo
already posted

14 hours ago, rollinson 65 said:

Niall in the Age made a really good case for Angus to leave the MFC.

It is not just about money.

It is a short window as an AFL player. Does a really talented player want to be remembered as a bit player? Angus could walk into many teams and into their midfield and get close to a Brownlow medal.

Or he could stay at the Dees and potentially get another couple of premiership medals.

If Angus was my son, I would be urging him to leave.

 

The only evidence that Brayshaw is anywhere near a Brownlow comes from 2018, when we were an awful defensive transition team with Gus on ball and when he got all of Oliver’s votes because Oliver talked back to the umps.

There’s been nothing either side of that year to suggest Brayshaw is a good on baller, yet alone a great one.

He has nice clean hands around a stoppage but his pressure and in tight defensive work is a mess. If Gus gets 30 you have to live with his opponent getting 30 too, and there’s plenty of mids who will do better with their 30.

Thats why our coaches use Harmes, Sparrow and Jordon on ball rather than Gus.

He might enjoy playing on ball more. And might get that chance more often at a bottom 6 club. But he’s not getting on ball minutes at a top team the way he currently plays. If he was at Freo for instance he’d be behind Mundy, Fyfe, Andy Brayshaw and Serong and playing on the wing too!

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The only evidence that Brayshaw is anywhere near a Brownlow comes from 2018, when we were an awful defensive transition team with Gus on ball and when he got all of Oliver’s votes because Oliver talked back to the umps.

There’s been nothing either side of that year to suggest Brayshaw is a good on baller, yet alone a great one.

He has nice clean hands around a stoppage but his pressure and in tight defensive work is a mess. If Gus gets 30 you have to live with his opponent getting 30 too, and there’s plenty of mids who will do better with their 30.

Thats why our coaches use Harmes, Sparrow and Jordon on ball rather than Gus.

He might enjoy playing on ball more. And might get that chance more often at a bottom 6 club. But he’s not getting on ball minutes at a top team the way he currently plays. If he was at Freo for instance he’d be behind Mundy, Fyfe, Andy Brayshaw and Serong and playing on the wing too!

You make some valid points however it is difficult for Gus to prove his worth as a pure on baller when he's never really been given a permanent role there beyond 2018.

Even in 2019 when he was playing mostly on ball, from what I recall he was only usually given 65% time on ground 

Brian Dixon won 6 premierships as wingman and later became a parlimentarian and minister.

3 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

A point that has been missed, is that going to a weaker club doesn’t automatically make you a better player:- Even if you are given more opportunity, such as a starting inside mid.

Maybe staying at Melb, on a wing, in a successful team, with excellent structure, actually allows him to have a better career, vs being a starting inside mid at a struggling team such as St.Kilda or Hawthorn or whoever. Albeit retiring with less $$ than he would have if he departed.

Not sure I would assume only struggling clubs will be interested.  I suggest Richmond and Geelong would have a very good look.  Both will have highly paid players retiring in the next few years so will have money to splash.

An added attraction to all clubs is he is an RFA so they don't need to give up draft picks. 

Not making a case for him to go but just saying he will be an attractive get for any club.

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by Lucifers Hero

57 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Not sure I would assume only struggling clubs will be interested.  I suggest Richmond and Geelong would have a very good look.  Both will have highly paid players retiring in the next few years so will have money to splash.

An added attraction to all clubs is he is an RFA so they don't need to give up draft picks. 

Not making a case for him to go but just saying he will be an attractive get for any club.

When Rich and Geel highly paid players retire they will become struggling clubs. 

I am suggesting he won’t be starting midfield for a successful club. 
 

On 2/24/2022 at 2:45 PM, Dwight Schrute said:

I've got no doubt Gus will sign on, but i think a few at the club are starting to realise to keep this group together it's going to take some blokes accepting less money than they might get elsewhere. 

Jacksons new contract will be significant, the top teams unfortunately always do seem to lose one from time to time, hope Gus isn't one though

It is inevitable that we will lose someone from the current 22 unless they start accepting unders. For Brayshaw, he is already get highly overpaid for his role/position so at best he’ll get 80-90% of his current contract. Realistically, to keep LJ and keep something aside for Oliver next renewal, he’s going to need to goto 60-70% circa 450K pa. Others approaching renewal will need to do the same.

21 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

When Rich and Geel highly paid players retire they will become struggling clubs. 

I am suggesting he won’t be starting midfield for a successful club. 
 

Can't say that I am as downbeat as that with Richmond and Geelong as they have a bit of talent coming through; its about managing the transition. 

But lets say they do struggle then some currently not so successful clubs will become so. 

Genuine question:  which do you consider to be successful clubs in the next 2-5 years.

"Only a winger" 

Our two wingers Langon and Brayshaw were one of the key reasons for our success and one of our key failures in previous years. Short memories forget how desperate we were for two runners 5 years ago. 

29 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Can't say that I am as downbeat as that with Richmond and Geelong as they have a bit of talent coming through; its about managing the transition. 

But lets say they do struggle then some currently not so successful clubs will become so. 

Genuine question:  which do you consider to be successful clubs in the next 2-5 years.

I don’t have much confidence in being able to forecast that far away, but for the sake of the exercise.

Melb, dogs, Port, Bris, Syd

Agree that Rich partly depends on the ability to transition, but think they be out of the 8 from 2023. And cats definitely outside the 8 after this year (5-8th this year)

Essendon, St.Kilda, Carlton, GWS, Freo could go either way.

 

What are you thinking regarding successful teams over next 2-5 years?

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by 1964_2

25 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

I don’t have much confidence in being able to forecast that far away, but for the sake of the exercise.

Melb, dogs, Port, Bris, Syd

Agree that Rich partly depends on the ability to transition, but think they be out of the 8 from 2023. And cats definitely outside the 8 after this year (5-8th this year)

Essendon, St.Kilda, Carlton, GWS, Freo could go either way.

 

What are you thinking regarding successful teams over next 2-5 years?

Yeah, kinda difficult forecasting one year let alone a few.  If 'successful' means consistently making finals, all the teams you mention are in the frame.  If it means consistently top 4/premierships it is anyone's guess.

fwiw, I think he will stay:  Some telling conversations on G&G:  after the 2020 hub Gus said he wanted to move in with his long term partner, Danielle but she declined.  In the most recent G&G he said they are moving in together.  Also, Gawn asked him (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) if he had left the 'bayside' area this summer!!!  Well, yes to go to Casey...and visit his Godson, George Gawn. 

Those conversations suggested he is anchored in Melbourne so if he left the Dees he probably wouldn't go far and not without Danielle.  In proximity of the 'bayside' area:  Saints, Hawks, Pies, Tigers. 

8 hours ago, rpfc said:

A ‘defensive wingman’ is a disciplined player who doesn’t know how to play wing.

Angus can build to more than that. 

And @rollinson 65 - he probably has his own drivers that aren’t necessarily where he finishes in the Brownlow… 

When I look back at the Premiership he played in - he is remembered right behind Petracca, Oliver, and Fritsch.

So maybe we should all stop projecting what we would do onto his future actions and just enjoy the present.

Don't agree with you rpfc.

Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to play a winger It merely means he plays within his limitations and to his strengths.

Angus is a Top 10 pick that has not produced perhaps a career that we all thought when drafted along with Trac 2 and he 3.

You are very quick to  forget that the concussion issues he has overcome have not been without some loss of that free flowing style with greater pace and flair all vote catching and highlight reel friendly in 2018.

Fast forward and his on the ball career in 2019 and 2020 was not convincing but 2021 saw him placed on the members wing with the indefatigable Lingers running a marathon each week on the opposite snd never appearing to run out of pace and style with the ball improving before our eyes as an unlucky to miss AA in 2021.

How to play a role to the satisfaction of himself team and starting to doubt and very demanding supporters resulted in a patiently built very credible team role as defensive back up, in pack pressure and when able an attacking option to either score or pass to leading forwards to enable a score.

His Top 10 ability and toughness came to the fore as he made a position ( not always appreciated by some fans only interested in flair and highlights packages.) "He only got 14 possessions " and but his disposal and heavy work was good in close" but kicking a little astray to the forwards".

Well he persisted and came good at the biggest time of the year Finals culminating in his third or fourth best on ground in the Granny snd was a major player in the vital third quarter as he refused to let the Dogs maintain ball control on the non members wing. And he put us in front and we  never were to forfeit the lead. In all his most influential and courageous performance only a very good footballer with his pedigree he  can play.

Trust  me I sat on that  wing at Optus snd he does many other knock balls out of bounds spoils opponents marks and hand balls with deft precision to keep our "quiet" wing going under the radar.

I haven't looked at his opponents possessions but would be very surprised if many in 2021 caused Angus to  alter his match style and  team requirements.

His defensive work early in the third term bottled up the ball so Dogs couldn't get a clean possession to turn into enough to worry us on the scoreboard. We saved the game before we won it with our pressure then when things turned we never released the hand brake. 

This wing player knows how to play defensive and pressure footy so the on ballers and excitement machines can do their stuff.

 

Great discussions here, people.

Let's get back to the cold hard fact that the management of Gus Brayshaw has deferred discussions on the future.

The decision to stay or go is for him and him alone.

I will respect that decision. Don't ask me to boo him if he turns up for Freo or some other team.

After he kicked that goal in the third quarter, my memory of one of the radio commentaries was something like:

"What a player !! What a goal !! What a game !!"

If there are people on here who like to pretend that their hearts were not in their mouths when the Bont put the doggies up by 19 and then Hannan got his hands on the ball... well, gee, how great are you?

1 hour ago, rollinson 65 said:

If there are people on here who like to pretend that their hearts were not in their mouths when the Bont put the doggies up by 19 and then Hannan got his hands on the ball... well, gee, how great are you?

I  got up and washed the dishes, that's how annoyed I was.

But it's his decision, leave it to the end of the year otherwise everyone is just piz sing into the wind !

Back 2 Back should be the discussion, not who will be in our premier side in 23

Edited February 28, 20223 yr by 640MD
spelling

Gus has already shored up his longevity in AFL world. He'll have a long media career post playing days.

1 hour ago, AmDamDemon said:

Gus has already shored up his longevity in AFL world. He'll have a long media career post playing days.

Why are you , and a few others, convinced that Gus wants a media career post playing?

He is currently studying finance (?) at Uni. I see him more the successful business tycoon as opposed to a media man.