6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

 

 

Sincerely thanks for this

And I will watch it tomorrow

 

but tonight I need to watch the replay again because I have this unrelenting nagging feeling that there is a handball somewhere that I have not committed to memory

1 minute ago, Crompton's the man said:

Sincerely thanks for this

And I will watch it tomorrow

 

but tonight I need to watch the replay again because I have this unrelenting nagging feeling that there is a handball somewhere that I have not committed to memory

Gone from perfect to divine

Mitchell is a cluey bloke, and has all the attributes of a very good coach, but something feels really bad at the Hawks. Remember how James MacDonald left the Dees, and how so many of the long term players of that era left the club uncomfortably or with dissatisfaction? That's the sense I get for the Hawks - Neeld era-ish problems. . Imagine holding your entire mature midfield up for the highest bidder. 

They’re stuffed.

For a long time.

And that kinda makes me feel very happy.

 

11 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

They’re stuffed.

For a long time.

And that kinda makes me feel very happy.

 

i wish nothing more than mid-table mediocrity upon them

The fact Sam has been on the phone trying to get rid of players is staggering, how can he expect loyalty after that!?

The thing I find most unsettling and bizarre about this situation is if this was the plan; short term pain, trade out some of the higher profile established players to top up on a large number of draft picks this year and next. Then why would Mitchell push Clarkson out to coach while that’s happening? 

Mitchell could’ve kept Clarkson as a shield for the next year, he could’ve softened the blow of the trades, with both the players involved and the supporters, taken the heat if the next year is tough due to losing established players and blooding kids and then Mitchell comes in as coach in 2023 with a range of young talent on the list and a fresh slate in terms of how the turnover of the list was handled.

The only thing I can think of is that Clarkson didn’t agree with this direction. Was either unwilling to trade players out, disagreed on which players or thought it would be bad for the culture to force out good players in their prime?
If that’s the case it’s a double whammy for Mitchell because not only does he have to do the hard, dirty list work and take the heat for it, both externally and internally. But one of the greatest coaches of his football club, his coach, fundamentally disagrees with his strategy. Yikes!!!

Edited October 12, 20214 yr by deejammin'

My eyes might have been deceiving me but I think I just saw the HFC 2022 member's bumper sticker.

H A W T H O R N  2022
Even we don't want us!

13 hours ago, Crompton's the man said:

Sincerely thanks for this

And I will watch it tomorrow

 

but tonight I need to watch the replay again because I have this unrelenting nagging feeling that there is a handball somewhere that I have not committed to memory

I think you'll find Champion Data decided on review it wasn't a handball...

Don't forget the absolute swag of picks they gave to St Kilda a few years prior, very few young players getting developed for them atm

This is the first year Hawks haven't had Graham Wright heading their recruitment so they have a rookie Recruiting Manager and a Rookie Coach.  To a large extent Wright kept Clarkson under control, well to the best anyone possibly could but it seems Mitchell is off the leash.

It is bizzare that Mitchell has gone rogue and personally shopped his players to other clubs.  Not only is that divisive and disheartening for the players it also is for the Football Department.  Not even the most experienced and most revered coaches behave like that.  Selfish, lack of respect and lack of trust; all are culture killers.

Recent history hasn't been kind to favourite sons/brownlow medallists coaching their club without getting much experience first:  Voss, Rattan, Hird, Buckley.  Mitchell is acting as 'he knows best' and is blowing up his honeymoon period before it even starts.  I wonder how many years he will have before getting his marching orders.  Can't see them winning a flag with him at the helm.

11 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

i wish nothing more than mid-table mediocrity upon them

I want them to come 9th for the next 5 years....

5 minutes ago, Jontee said:

I want them to come 9th for the next 5 years....

With Geelong 10th

9 minutes ago, Premiers said:

This is the first year Hawks haven't had Graham Wright heading their recruitment so they have a rookie Recruiting Manager and a Rookie Coach.  To a large extent Wright kept Clarkson under control, well to the best anyone possibly could but it seems Mitchell is off the leash.

It is bizzare that Mitchell has gone rogue and personally shopped his players to other clubs.  Not only is that divisive and disheartening for the players it also is for the Football Department.  Not even the most experienced and most revered coaches behave like that.  Selfish, lack of respect and lack of trust; all are culture killers.

Recent history hasn't been kind to favourite sons/brownlow medallists coaching their club without getting much experience first:  Voss, Rattan, Hird, Buckley.  Mitchell is acting as 'he knows best' and is blowing up his honeymoon period before it even starts.  I wonder how many years he will have before getting his marching orders.  Can't see them winning a flag with him at the helm.

It may not make him a better coach, but Mitchell has at least had assistant coaching experience at another club as well as Hawthorn.

5 hours ago, Premiers said:

It is bizzare that Mitchell has gone rogue and personally shopped his players to other clubs.  Not only is that divisive and disheartening for the players it also is for the Football Department.  Not even the most experienced and most revered coaches behave like that.  Selfish, lack of respect and lack of trust; all are culture killers.

You're making this seem like a bad thing.

And now they have tried and failed to move Luke Breust.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/684092
 

Classic case of, again, entertaining deals when the player doesn’t want to go to the team you’re dealing with. 

Kennett can obfuscate and run away from his actions but the Hawks want to move their senior players on, but, have not, and do not want be up front with them and actively get them to go.

Its a perfect mess they will see disgruntled senior players stick around a club that they know doesn’t want them.

Lovely.

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

And now they have tried and failed to move Luke Breust.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/684092
 

Classic case of, again, entertaining deals when the player doesn’t want to go to the team you’re dealing with. 

Kennett can obfuscate and run away from his actions but the Hawks want to move their senior players on, but, have not, and do not want be up front with them and actively get them to go.

Its a perfect mess they will see disgruntled senior players stick around a club that they know doesn’t want them.

Lovely.

I get a bit sick of people blaming Kennett for the problems Victoria faces today. He was voted out of office 22 years ago - before we last played in a losing Grand Final. There's been plenty of time for subsequent governments to fix whatever they thought Kennett had damaged.

However, I can completely understand people blaming Kennett for the problems Hawthorn now faces. Nevertheless, it's completely within the power of the Hawthorn members to overcome that problem should they have a mind to do so. 

To a degree its Alistair Clarkson and Graham Wright making life hard for Sam Mitchell with their list management post 2015 flag. Clear that Wright was unable to manage Clarkson like his ex Dees predecessors Chris Fagan and Mark Evans. Post Fagan and Evans there was no one in Hawthorn Football Department who could say no to Clarkson when he wanted to recruit Wingard and O'Meara at any cost.

And then Mitchell as coach has to work with and rely on Mark McKenzie as List & Recruiting Manager and Rob McCartney as Head of Football. With the way the club has gone about its stated aim of improving its draft hand their competence must be in question. They overestimated market for their veterans and particularly willingness to trade top 20 picks. There  are ways of managing contracted veterans out of a club. You've got to know what clubs have cap space and interest and agree on trade value. You've got to discuss with player if they're prepared to go to interested club. You can 'encourage' player by telling them that their current club wont be in a position to extend contract beyond current term but interested club will give them security by taking on current contract and agreeing to an extension. If you havent done this work in preparation for the trade period then you can't go into it publicly stating you want to improve your draft hand by trading some of your contracted veterans. 

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

And now they have tried and failed to move Luke Breust.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/684092
 

Classic case of, again, entertaining deals when the player doesn’t want to go to the team you’re dealing with. 

Kennett can obfuscate and run away from his actions but the Hawks want to move their senior players on, but, have not, and do not want be up front with them and actively get them to go.

Its a perfect mess they will see disgruntled senior players stick around a club that they know doesn’t want them.

Lovely.

Breust and Wingard both have 2 more years… ouch. I love it, smell the roses Hawks fans. 

but it's a family club so everything will be alright..................right?

I’m sure some uncomfortable truths are faced every year at many clubs. What is strange is how publicly this has played out. You would have to think there is something seriously wrong over at hawthorn. Kennett telegraphing their intentions without any certainty that they would actually be able to pull the trigger. Leaks that Mitchell was actively shopping his stars himself. Players unaware and thwarting proposed plans.

 I’ll be interested to see how this affects Mitchell’s relationship with the players. I’m with a previous poster, long  may they wallow in mediocrity!

Seems like they wanted to much in a market that didn't have a lot to give.

If they were smart they would have realised this and not tried to trade contracted players, who in reality didn't want to go.

Then they wouldn't have had to deal with the pain and heartache of disaffected players & fans.

...and if they really wanted to move someone on they could have at least set a fair price and or let the player explore his options, not try and railroad them interstate.

...and also to expect a 30yo with a bad back has any kind of currency, particularly first round currency...

They're dreaming.

11 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think you'll find Champion Data decided on review it wasn't a handball...

They are wrong. The umpire deemed it a disposal. Otherwise  as trac had prior opportunity  he would have been pinged for holding the ball or incorrect disposal.

12 hours ago, daisycutter said:

but it's a family club so everything will be alright..................right?

Mitchell:

 

 

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Mitchell:

 

 

Hawks football dept: Are you, um ... sure this is going to work?
Mitchell: Oh you blouses. I'm gunna be like that famous Melbourne coach ... real hardarse he was ... straightened out the joint like you've never seen.
HFD: Who ... ? You don't mean Norm Smith?
Mitchell: Nah, not him. It was ... now what's his name again?
HFD: Barassi? But he--
Mitchell: Nah, it was something else ... like "crouched" or "kneeled" or something like that.
HFD: OH [censored] WHAT HAVE WE DONE