Toby Greene umpire contact

[BW511 2,574]

There’s definite intent from Greene to intimidate the umpire. 
The AFL will have no choice but to suspend him, they simply can’t allow it to happen

[faultydet 7,594]

I remember the lengths that the AFL went to (or rather what they obviously overlooked) in order for Plugger Lockett to play in a Grand Final.

 

Would not surprise me one iota if they are not behind closed doors furiously brainstorming ways to ensure he plays next week.

[maximum bob 462]

1 hour ago, John Crow Batty said:

I saw it and right in front of the umpire who did nothing. 

As an aside. In the old days, if you were an umpire, you'd pull out your note pad and pencil, turn the player around and write down his number and confirm his name and tell him he had been reported. Then game on.

 

[deanox 9,665]

Just had it out to me like this:

How would we feel if instead of Stevic it was Eleni Glouftsis that Toby walked through?

As a society we would be screaming. And Toby would be staring down a 10+ week suspension.

The rules shouldn't be any different: violence and threatening behaviour should not be tolerated.

Edited August 29, 2021 by deanox

[The Swimming Dee 1,904]

I’m not a huge David King fan but have to agree with him that it needs to be at least 3-4 weeks. Rubbish from Greene and completely unacceptable 

[Willmoy1947 3,971]

How can two teams running around like mad things for four quarters not shoulder forcefully  one of four moving suitably  robed Umpires by accident,  let alone on purpose, and one sanctimonious little twirp mucks up the whole karma with brainless self idolatry.

[jnrmac 19,905]

I'm happy with 2 weeks

[Fork 'em 6,940]

 

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

I remember the lengths that the AFL went to (or rather what they obviously overlooked) in order for Plugger Lockett to play in a Grand Final.

 

Would not surprise me one iota if they are not behind closed doors furiously brainstorming ways to ensure he plays next week.

Same with Barry Hall.
Cotchin.

If the AFL can find a loophole to get their love childs best player off for a final they'll use it.

Unintentional Low Level Contact.
 No injury to umpire .... Play on.
 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Fork 'em

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,641]

3 hours ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

But it does, clearly, from both angles (despite the behind angle being less useful than the side angle)

 

 

Pretty gross watching Jessie spitting like that over and over again too.

 

[TheWiz 759]

I think Matt Stevic was the same umpire involved with Hawkins?

A lot of the recent cases of umpire contact below were quite careless and unintentional. The only one I can think of that that is similar in intent to Greene’s would be Greg Williams back in 1997 for 9 games.

Has to be suspended, particularly when you watch some of the videos of the ones below. My guess would be 4 weeks.
 

Tom Hawkins (2018) - 1 week, made contact with an umpires arm

Ed Curnow (2018) - 1 week, minor push on an umpire. I think this was after a match review and the umpire said it was so fleeting he didn’t recall it?

Heath Shaw (2009) - 1 week, grabbed an umpires shoulder

Justin Koschitzke (2008) - 1 week, ran into the back of an umpire in the VFL whilst rucking

[Pates 9,625]

Bad look for Greene it going to the tribunal but who the hell knows what they’ll do. 

[titan_uranus 24,631]

2 hours ago, maximum bob said:

It's just gone up a notch. Obviously disrespectful but now also intentional (what a surprise). Greene should get 6-8 weeks on all the available evidence.

If the lily-livered AFL hierarchy ever wanted to set a precedent, now's the time. Think of all the junior umpires out there looking at this behaviour.

This thug has got away with too much in the past.

Time to call him to account.

Actually, if it's considered disrespectful that means under the Tribunal guidelines it is deemed to have been intentional.

Aggressive, forceful, demonstrative or disrespectful means intentional.

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I'm happy with 2 weeks

I don't think anyone can be happy if this is 2 weeks, given Viney's was 2 weeks.

Viney at 2 means Greene should be 3 at an absolute minimum.

[jnrmac 19,905]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

Actually, if it's considered disrespectful that means under the Tribunal guidelines it is deemed to have been intentional.

Aggressive, forceful, demonstrative or disrespectful means intentional.

I don't think anyone can be happy if this is 2 weeks, given Viney's was 2 weeks.

Viney at 2 means Greene should be 3 at an absolute minimum.

2 means he misses playing us

I'd be happy with that

[WalkingCivilWar 39,264]

4 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Stevic should have gotten out of the way and reported Greene on the spot? AFL spin-machine at its best. Greene initiated the contact, he was clearly annoyed at something and went straight for Stevic. Victim blaming at its best. 

Further, @TRIGON, why no face palm for this? I consciously tempered my comment by saying “akin to victim blaming” when in fact Ethan’s wording (above) is exactly how I feel. I’ve disappointed myself by compromising my principles just to not be jumped on. So, if for no reason other than for me to understand why my comment was a problem, it’d be great if you could explain why your reaction, or lack thereof, varied. 
And if you think I’m putting too fine a point on it, there’s a valid reason. Since it’s a personal reason I won’t elaborate but am happy to explain in a PM if need be.  

[Undeeterred 3,045]

10 hours ago, Demon17 said:

And Razor put his hand out low and Gus responded from memory.

Ray 'gets ' the game. 

That’s the one. Brayshaw shanked it on his left out of bounds on the vacant members wing, and Razor didn’t pay deliberate and they ‘low fives’ each other. Hilarious 

[hardtack 10,422]

1 hour ago, TheWiz said:

I think Matt Stevic was the same umpire involved with Hawkins?

A lot of the recent cases of umpire contact below were quite careless and unintentional. The only one I can think of that that is similar in intent to Greene’s would be Greg Williams back in 1997 for 9 games.

Has to be suspended, particularly when you watch some of the videos of the ones below. My guess would be 4 weeks.
 

Tom Hawkins (2018) - 1 week, made contact with an umpires arm

Ed Curnow (2018) - 1 week, minor push on an umpire. I think this was after a match review and the umpire said it was so fleeting he didn’t recall it?

Heath Shaw (2009) - 1 week, grabbed an umpires shoulder

Justin Koschitzke (2008) - 1 week, ran into the back of an umpire in the VFL whilst rucking

And let’s not forget Phil Carman in 1980, headbutting boundary umpire Carbury(sp?), and getting 20 weeks for his troubles.

[Jibroni 4,929]

If Green gets weeks then what does this receive:

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Jibroni

[deanox 9,665]

15 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

If Green gets weeks then what does this receive:

 

It's a still shot that without context appears to be an accidental collision during play.

Without seeing video my guess is:

The Essendon player is moving didn't see the ump coming the other way, they bumped into each other. The Essendon player's right hand instinctively grabs the umpire to stabilise because he realised he bumped into him. A bit like how you might reach out if you bump into your child, or someone in a hallway.

Now that could be wrong, but I'd be surprised.

Toby Greene did the opposite. Eye contact, new where the umpire was standing. The ump was standing still but Greene chose to walk through him, should to chest, forcing the umpire to move voluntarily or be knocked by the force of contact. Greene didn't reach to stabilise or balance, implying he had "set himself" for the contact.

 

So based on that, this gets nothing and Greene is still in the gun for 2-6.

[titan_uranus 24,631]

22 minutes ago, deanox said:

It's a still shot that without context appears to be an accidental collision during play.

Without seeing video my guess is:

The Essendon player is moving didn't see the ump coming the other way, they bumped into each other. The Essendon player's right hand instinctively grabs the umpire to stabilise because he realised he bumped into him. A bit like how you might reach out if you bump into your child, or someone in a hallway.

Now that could be wrong, but I'd be surprised.

Toby Greene did the opposite. Eye contact, new where the umpire was standing. The ump was standing still but Greene chose to walk through him, should to chest, forcing the umpire to move voluntarily or be knocked by the force of contact. Greene didn't reach to stabilise or balance, implying he had "set himself" for the contact.

 

So based on that, this gets nothing and Greene is still in the gun for 2-6.

Here's the footage (albeit still not a lot):

 

[Jaded No More 67,771]

30 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Here's the footage (albeit still not a lot):

 

As always, context is everything. 
Greene sought out the umpire in a break. He pointed a finger at him. He back chatted to him. He then chose to walk into him and then turn back and continue to chat to him. There was malice and aggression in that. 
Heppell is in play. Split second not watching action. He grabs the umpire instinctively to stop him from falling. 
Intention to intimidate and discredit the umpire in one. Accidental in the other. 
It’s like when sometimes a player accidentally knocks over the goal umpire. There’s no malice in that and the AFL has stopped punishing players for any umpire contact  because it’s a fast game and accidents happen. Things that happen in play always need to be taken under the “split second heat of the game” consideration. Players can be so focused their peripheral vision fails them. I mean how many friendly fires do we see in games. It’s not disimilar. 
For me the bumping action from Greene is not the issue alone. It’s the entire interaction with Stavic. It’s aggressive and it’s disrespectful and it’s completely unnecessary. It’s 30 very ugly seconds that could set off a lot ugly behavior in junior ranks if we don’t stamp it out. 
 

[Lucifers Hero 38,985]

17 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Channel 7 footage shown just now is conclusive.  New camera angle.

Thanks for the extra info.  He is gone!

Without Toby Cats win.  We have and can beat the Cats in the Prelim especially after a rest for us and no rest for them.

[deanox 9,665]

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Here's the footage (albeit still not a lot):

Perfect, looks like my interpretation was relatively correct.

Accidental collision, caused by not realising he was about to run into him. Saw him last moment and tried to minimise impact. Chalk and cheese to Toby Greene.

Honestly I can't believe anyone could be defending Greene's action. His intent is so clear. His body language, demeanour etc. Everything about it was aggressive, intimidatory and disrespectful.

Anyone trying to claim plausible deniability should have a good hard look at themselves.

[spirit of norm smith 15,249]

Greene is looking and talking to the ump and makes no attempt to avoid him. In fact seems to INITIATE THE CONTACT THE UMPIRE STEVIC. 

It’s totally unacceptable.  Two weeks minimum.  [censored]. [censored]. [censored]. 

[Dido 78]

Obvious Greene had a brain fade from his inability to justify his actions when questioned about it later in a post match interview.  Angry little man!

[TRIGON 4,779]

11 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Further, @TRIGON, why no face palm for this? I consciously tempered my comment by saying “akin to victim blaming” when in fact Ethan’s wording (above) is exactly how I feel. I’ve disappointed myself by compromising my principles just to not be jumped on. So, if for no reason other than for me to understand why my comment was a problem, it’d be great if you could explain why your reaction, or lack thereof, varied. 
And if you think I’m putting too fine a point on it, there’s a valid reason. Since it’s a personal reason I won’t elaborate but am happy to explain in a PM if need be.  

My mistake @WalkingCivilWar, clumsy use of the emoticon. I was facepalming Leppa's tweet, not your thoughts on it.

My apologies for causing you upset.