2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Hibberd's spot will probably come up for grabs sometime next year.

Lockhart needs to improve by a factor of around 50% to be in the running.

Must admit I didn't see Jordon as a prospect based on 2019 VFL games but he has surprised us all. Perhaps one of Bedford, Chandler or Lockhart could make the grade

Locky is a small defender specialist who is a very good chance of becoming a real defender in the AFL once say Hibbo slows down or retires. Has pace snd skill  and takes the game on. 

16 minutes ago, 58er said:

Locky is a small defender specialist who is a very good chance of becoming a real defender in the AFL once say Hibbo slows down or retires. Has pace snd skill  and takes the game on. 

I really like Lockhart but on Saturday his disposal was terrible. Missed his targets regularly and on top of that I counted 3 OOTF. He will not make it unless he drastically improves his kicking.

Just now, Cranky Franky said:

I really like Lockhart but on Saturday his disposal was terrible. Missed his targets regularly and on top of that I counted 3 OOTF. He will not make it unless he drastically improves his kicking.

Thanks CF sometimes a bit of composure is what Locky needs! 

6 hours ago, Reader said:

I've long held the view that Toby Bedford is an outstanding  player and should be playing midfield for us

I must admit I was won over by Bedford when he plays midfield. Saturday was no exception. Bedford is so bloody good, so fit, quick and bloody tough and puts on hard tackles on opposition and a great kick and dangerous,  and runs and also dynamic. For example his game against North reserves back in Feb 2020 when he ran and kicked a magnificent goal at the City end. 

In summary I just think Bedford is a better player at this stage than Viney,  I like Viney and respect him but more the reasons expressed above we can do better with Bedford 

Further, whilst Jack Vineys courage cannot be questioned Jack is somewhat limited/lacks outstanding abilities in many vital parts of the afl game:

a) kicking the ball (in particular depth, accuracy, ability to pinpoint a quick incisive pass as compared with and not be confused with a slow 15m easy kick)

b) marking(caveat here,  its not surprising and to be expected given his short height)

c) pace, spread from the contest, ability to get into dangerous positions to receive the ball, ability to put on a side step or burst of pace (not to be confused with ability to jog beside/behind an opposition midfielder who he is tasked with tagging- he tagged Wines on Thursday and Wines had 33 possesions! And a goal.

d) damaging with handball (not to be confused with ability to handball in tight

e) never impacts with a goal

Like all supporters I admire Vineys courage and big heart but above all I want our midfield to be better in fact it is a longstanding theme of discussion in post match statements by Goodwin

With respect our midfield could be much better, imo there is so much room for it to grow so that it is less dependent on stars like Oliver, Trac and Jordon and Kozzie with his midfield cameos , that is to have a player who is more skilled and in particular better at kicking, has pace/spread from the contest, side step and just a better overall package rather than mainly tackling.

I cannot see it happening but I think the Match committee should not select Viney unless the other midfielder players mentioned above are injured

Furthermore I would play Toby Bedford in the midfield instead of Jack Viney to see if the hypothesis that Bedford can do more than Viney is correct and test whether Toby makes us a better team

I know this appears to come from left field but hear me out: firstly it's based on long held views about limitations of Jacks game and I respect Vineys commitment/courage, secondly I fear he is not the best available option if we want to win a premiership and teams with better midfields will expose what I perceive to be an inherent yet fixable weakness in our midfield 

 

I am a Bedford fan but you are completely delusional if you think he is a better option than Viney. 

Thanks for all the replies

how we see our small indigenous NGA/FS prospects go in the back half of this year leading into the draft will have a bit part to play in whether locky, chandler, bedford all remain on the list or how many do

Has some weapons, but doesn’t get involved enough in games. 

In a tight final I want a hard nut like Viney to rag doll Selwood

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

the notion that bedford is a better midfielder than viney is absolutely absurd 

Yep. I'm a massive fan of Bedford but that comparison is not only absurd but unfair to Bedford.

I still think Bedford is a big chance of being one of our small forwards that can attend the odd centre bounce - like Kozzy.

He has some elite attributes, namely acceleration, agility, overall speed and stamina. We're talking about an incredibly rare combination of athletic traits.

I would love to know exactly what he's been told to work on to get to the next level because I think he's very close to next in line should Kozzy, Spargs or ANB be rested.

9 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Yep. I'm a massive fan of Bedford but that comparison is not only absurd but unfair to Bedford.

I still think Bedford is a big chance of being one of our small forwards that can attend the odd centre bounce - like Kozzy.

He has some elite attributes, namely acceleration, agility, overall speed and stamina. We're talking about an incredibly rare combination of athletic traits.

I would love to know exactly what he's been told to work on to get to the next level because I think he's very close to next in line should Kozzy, Spargs or ANB be rested.

Good question, because if it is possessions, he isnt in the middle and can be starved. He is electric when on. I thought it is either whole game concentration or just fitness to last the whole game.

 

I"ve watched Toby during his time in the under 18's onwards.  He is electic in his movements; looks incredible at times when he has the ball but unfortunately  doesen't get involved often enough.  His average disposal numbers are low and his impact on the game is negligible even at under 18 level.  A will of the wisp maybe, be but more a fly by night footballer at best.  

Should he put the work in, get fitter and believe in himself to do better he could be a very good player.

Toby Bedford has the pace, skill and smarts to be a real player.  I’m challenging the Dees development to get the best out of him. I see him as a forward pocket or half forward.  He needs the 120 volts rev up to bring more intensity.  When he gets the footy, he uses it well. I’d like to see him go for goal more.  He sometimes try to hand pass still when he’s 30 out.  Go for it!!! I’m backing him in for another year but like to see him show more progress in the next 6-10 games of 2021. 

53 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I’m challenging the Dees development to get the best out of him. 

I just informed the club. They advised that they have been doing an average job before this point as they only wanted to get average results.

They will double their efforts now that they have been formally challenged.

15 hours ago, BW511 said:

I have no skin in this game either, but ANB is the obvious one

I haven't seen enough of Bedford to know whether he's good enough, but there's a chance that someone might take Viney's spot. Whether he's lacking fitness or has another lingering injury, he's not playing well. He was given the task of tagging Wines on Thursday which is hardly an endorsement. However, while the bigger Wines brushed Viney off like an annoying blowfly, he (Wines) was not at his most dominant, so Viney should get some credit.

Nevertheless, if Goodwin persists with using Viney as a tagger rather than as a creative player, I suspect Viney's days might be numbered.  I hope Viney can get back to his best and be the creative beast, albeit with disposal flaws, that we all want him to be.

13 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I haven't seen enough of Bedford to know whether he's good enough, but there's a chance that someone might take Viney's spot. Whether he's lacking fitness or has another lingering injury, he's not playing well. He was given the task of tagging Wines on Thursday which is hardly an endorsement. However, while the bigger Wines brushed Viney off like an annoying blowfly, he (Wines) was not at his most dominant, so Viney should get some credit.

Nevertheless, if Goodwin persists with using Viney as a tagger rather than as a creative player, I suspect Viney's days might be numbered.  I hope Viney can get back to his best and be the creative beast, albeit with disposal flaws, that we all want him to be.

Vineys' main problem is his footy IQ and his slow brain

Takes forever to decide what to do with the ball  and gets caught or disposes under real pressure and turns it over. Just not smart enough but love his tackling and pressure

On 7/12/2021 at 10:27 AM, deespicable me said:

Went to Werribee on Saturday to watch the game and check out our next likely players to come in.

Bedford was interesting, along with Chandler, Bowey and Lockhart as small quick players and I tend to agree Bedford has a bit of potential and could make the grade, but only just and all four were below our AFL small brigade of Spargo, ANB, Kossie, and even Hunt and Hibberd who sometimes play on smalls. Unless there is injury they probably won't get a look in this year. 

For the Bowey fans I still don't see any reason for him to play AFL for a year or two. He has the Salem smarts about him but doesn't have an AFL body yet, so needs a couple more pre-seasons and natural growth.

Weidemann is a bit dissapointing. He doesn't play the role of the lead up forward and constantly gets caught out the back of contests. White and Ellison were the two presenting all the time and the fact Ellison who is a natural forward kicked six in his first VFL game is an indictment on Sam. Ellison could have kicked more as he found space early in the day but was ignored as we kept looking for Weeds. (Just a note that Ellison was minded by the 3rd defender whereas Weeds would often attract more than one defender)

Sparrow is still the next in and Melksham has a touch of class and remains in the mix.

Just a note on the Casey boys. Obviously with low injuries there is a lot of AFL listed players in the team so the Casey boys opportunities are limited, but all of them played good games.

And finally I thought two of the most promising players out there were No's 68 George Grey and 40 Kye Declase.   

George Grey was fantastic, quick, clever and in everything, he definitely has a future and we should get him on the list ASAP. Declase played the wing taking over from Rosmann who was largely unsighted unfortunately, But Declase is another who could definitely go to AFL level. He is tall, and plays the wing role really well with good endurance and skills, and with Ellison kicking six our depth is good and Casey are flying. Well done to our recruiters and VFL coaches and development staff.

Totally agree with the above. We've got some wonderful depth and young talent coming through.

But they're not ready for AFL level of speed and pressure yet. Especially coming into the finals.

 

58 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I haven't seen enough of Bedford to know whether he's good enough, but there's a chance that someone might take Viney's spot. Whether he's lacking fitness or has another lingering injury, he's not playing well. He was given the task of tagging Wines on Thursday which is hardly an endorsement. However, while the bigger Wines brushed Viney off like an annoying blowfly, he (Wines) was not at his most dominant, so Viney should get some credit.

Nevertheless, if Goodwin persists with using Viney as a tagger rather than as a creative player, I suspect Viney's days might be numbered.  I hope Viney can get back to his best and be the creative beast, albeit with disposal flaws, that we all want him to be.

Jack has completed some great tagging roles over his career and although I don't want him to become a full time tagger, I'm very happy for him to be our defensive side midfielder and allow Trac/Olly etc to attack.

I thought Jack was ok on Thursday against Wines.  The last 4 weeks Wines has been unbelievable for Port and I'm pretty sure he has been rated best on nearly every week.  Yes he get some touches on Jack but he was hardly damaging which was a major reason why we got the chocolates after smashing them in the middle.  He played an incredibly difficult and selfless role well.

He doesn't look fully fit at the moment after a long break.  Very happy for him to keep getting minutes and build his fitness in preparation for some September action.  If playing a tagging role in the meantime keeps building his fitness base then I'm all for it.

To the OP stating to rest Jack and play Toby - I love your passion for a young kid in Toby and suspect some form of personal / family connection as it's a bit of a shocker IMO. 

I hope Toby becomes a superstar but until he dominates the twos midfield over a period of 6 or so weeks then he can keeping chipping away for Casey.  There is a major step up from VFL to AFL (even more at present with COVID) and he needs a big period of absolutely dominating here before he gets some game time with the big boys.  Let's hope he gets there!

14 hours ago, BAMF said:

I just informed the club. They advised that they have been doing an average job before this point as they only wanted to get average results.

They will double their efforts now that they have been formally challenged.

Well it's nice to see the club respond to a bit of feedback from the fans. I will now send them a missive touching on selection policy, player skill sets and where I think more effort is required on and off the field.

Trust me I will cover all the deficiencies I have detected.

3 hours ago, Kent said:

Vineys' main problem is his footy IQ and his slow brain

Takes forever to decide what to do with the ball  and gets caught or disposes under real pressure and turns it over. Just not smart enough but love his tackling and pressure

He wasn’t good but I thought he wasn’t bad in those areas before the lay off.

Now he looks slower to make decisions and seems to be taking ages to steady up to kick, which hurts when the results don’t come anyway. It’s not like he’s balancing up to hit a target.

There’s also the issue of Harmes and Viney in the same side and role. Viney tagging means freelancing Harmes which is a worry. 

But Melksham, Sparrow, Vanders and Jones underwhelm so the hope is Viney finds a bit of touch.

3 hours ago, Kent said:

Vineys' main problem is his footy IQ and his slow brain

Takes forever to decide what to do with the ball  and gets caught or disposes under real pressure and turns it over. Just not smart enough but love his tackling and pressure

Slow brain? Was that a necessary comment? 

45 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Slow brain? Was that a necessary comment? 

issue being???

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

He wasn’t good but I thought he wasn’t bad in those areas before the lay off.

Now he looks slower to make decisions and seems to be taking ages to steady up to kick, which hurts when the results don’t come anyway. It’s not like he’s balancing up to hit a target.

There’s also the issue of Harmes and Viney in the same side and role. Viney tagging means freelancing Harmes which is a worry. 

But Melksham, Sparrow, Vanders and Jones underwhelm so the hope is Viney finds a bit of touch.

Vanders in the best for Casey two weeks in a row will go close to recall soon

9 minutes ago, Kent said:

issue being???

You strike me as someone who is very big on the internet, but very small at the pub 

My issue is your hurling personal insults at someone who you presumably haven't even met. Stick to the footy. 

Edited July 13, 20213 yr by Smokey

Relax  Its not abuse in my opinion 

It is how he plays and is on display every time I watch him

You strike me as a person who is addicted to finding issues and calling them out for what ever reason Makes you feel superior I suppose.

I have met Jack a few times at functions by the way and I really like him and love his tackling and pressure, Just cant play footy 

See you at the pub and you can see how small I am OK precious!