Clayton Oliver Contract negotiations

[dazzledavey36 55,456]

4 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

As flag favourites we’re in a good position to keep our stars. These guys want success and they’ll get that here

Mate who said we're flag favourites? I haven't seen any articles or media personality say we're flag favourites...

[BDA 22,957]

13 hours ago, A F said:

I'd say name your price, but if you go too high, just know you may compromise list management decisions in the future and the club's ability to improve.

If he'd sign a long term deal, I'd comfortably give him 10 x $1 mill a year. He's incredibly durable and IMV will have a long future (playing well past 30) in the game.

No player should receive 10 years. It’s madness. He's durable now but he goes in hard, no guarantee he won't get a serious injury or become injury prone in a few years time.

I would offer 3 years on $1m per year. He’s worth that level of salary.

Contracts are just pieces of paper. They don’t compel people to give their all or put their heart and soul into their job.

Clayton wants to play for a team that matches his ambition and desire for success. The best and only retention strategy is to win games of footy and play finals. This club needs to show him that we offer the best environment for him to realise his ambitions. If that happens, the contract will take care of itself (and we won;t need to pay over the odds either). We've made a positive start to the season but it must continue otherwise no guarantee he'll hang around imv.

[Roost it far 8,840]

18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Mate who said we're flag favourites? I haven't seen any articles or media personality say we're flag favourites...

It will be released soon enough

[roy11 3,897]

13 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

salary-cap-score

Salary cap space after 2021

• Not sure our 'lesser-lights' and older players, whose contracts expire this year would be on big coin so I don't see much wriggle room there.

 

Yep, A lot of names here coming OOC, some seem surplus to requirements - uncertain if theyd be on big coin but you'd need to replace them for numbers.

Main List: Baker/Bedford/Hore/Jetta/Jones/Lochart/Hibbered/ANB/Oliver/Salem/J Smith/Vandenberg/Weideman

Rookies: M Brown/K Chandler/M Daw/J Jordon/A Nietschke/D Smith/A Bradke.

 

 

[old dee 23,919]

1 hour ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I think North are a big concern. Can offer a ridiculous can't refuse contract and will most likely have first pick in the PSD to give them leverage in trade negotiations. Would have to be a hell of an offer though.

If you were Oliver would you  rather play at the Dees with a solid chance of playing finals and a GF over the life of your contract. Or play with the bottom side who gets beaten 90% of the time for 15% more money? Easy choice for me. 

[Roost it far 8,840]

North are of no concern. He’s never going there

[praha 11,240]

4 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I think North are a big concern. Can offer a ridiculous can't refuse contract and will most likely have first pick in the PSD to give them leverage in trade negotiations. Would have to be a hell of an offer though.

If he leaves, it ain't to North. They're going to be overpaying players of the Chris Dawes ilk like we did for a while whilst they build their list. It took us years before we landed a big fish and that was only once we became decent. Money alone won't get people to North. It would be a very poor career choice for a player like Oliver to even contemplate North as they are today.

[daisycutter 29,797]

i'd be trying to get a 5 (6?) year contract (with maybe extension options*)

3 is too little

7-10 is too risky

* based on performance metrics, medical test and a formula for increase in $$s

[Travis Boots 157]

5 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Why?

Inconsistent, poor kick, only contests centre square (his favoured position) if someone is injured and has struggled when being played on a wing etc. We cant afford to be carrying him into 2022 on 625-650k given these issues.

 

add to that we are going to need to find more cap space for Clarry (prob 150k more) and some for Salem and realistically the club would prefer to front load however much possible on Olivers contract to make it easier to accomodate Petraccas next contract the following year.

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Travis Boots

[Dr. Gonzo 24,368]

27 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i'd be trying to get a 5 (6?) year contract (with maybe extension options*)

3 is too little

7-10 is too risky

* based on performance metrics, medical test and a formula for increase in $$s

If he re-signs it would likely be for 2 years to take him up to FA

[whatwhat say what 23,106]

1 hour ago, praha said:

If he leaves, it ain't to North. They're going to be overpaying players of the Chris Dawes ilk like we did for a while whilst they build their list. It took us years before we landed a big fish and that was only once we became decent. Money alone won't get people to North. It would be a very poor career choice for a player like Oliver to even contemplate North as they are today.

agreed

chris dawes = aiden corr, in this example

[Turner 1,516]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If he re-signs it would likely be for 2 years to take him up to FA

anyone who is expecting anything other than this is wrong.

lets the player assess where the club goes and also sets themselves up for massive pay day based on other clubs offers we match or other offers they take. 

afl exchange podcast made a great point today that all clubs should look to backload all players contracts in their FA year in order for them to be RFA like gws did with corr who annually  across his career is clearly not in their top 10% of earners but he was last year in order for them to receive compensation on the chance he leaves. going off the 2021 contracts forum it appears we've done the same with hunt somehow which must mean he's earning peanuts this year coz if that man is getting any more than about 500k all up over these two years we better take a long hard look at ourselves

[daisycutter 29,797]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If he re-signs it would likely be for 2 years to take him up to FA

but that's defeatist

our objective should be to lock him in long term and past fa

[adonski 12,610]

Swans the biggest threat imo

[Demons1858 1,772]

8 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

No player should receive 10 years. It’s madness. He's durable now but he goes in hard, no guarantee he won't get a serious injury or become injury prone in a few years time.

I would offer 3 years on $1m per year. He’s worth that level of salary.

Contracts are just pieces of paper. They don’t compel people to give their all or put their heart and soul into their job.

Clayton wants to play for a team that matches his ambition and desire for success. The best and only retention strategy is to win games of footy and play finals. This club needs to show him that we offer the best environment for him to realise his ambitions. If that happens, the contract will take care of itself (and we won;t need to pay over the odds either). We've made a positive start to the season but it must continue otherwise no guarantee he'll hang around imv.

Positive is that not many clubs can afford $1 mill a year in their salary. caps and the ones that can are potentially further from success than us https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/salary-cap-score-the-afl-clubs-that-do-and-don-t-have-room-20210327-p57em2.html

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,464]

7 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

salary-cap-score

Salary cap space after 2021

• HAVES (with room): Essendon, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Adelaide, Port Adelaide.
• HAVE-NOTS: Richmond, West Coast, Collingwood, Melbourne, Fremantle, Geelong, Gold Coast, Greater Western Sydney.
• SOME WRIGGLE ROOM: Carlton, Western Bulldogs, Brisbane Lions.
• UNCLEAR: St Kilda, Sydney

Player payments, including ASAs, are $13,165,950 in 2021, a cut of 9 per cent due to the pandemic. Player payments for 2022 are slated to be $14,769,322 if there are no cuts. All subject to the current contracts and without factoring in recruiting at season’s end or re-negotiations.

 

We have some expensive traded-in players with 2-4 years to go on their contracts.  Add the sal cap reductions and the AFL advice to clubs to transfer the decrease from the near term to later years ie back end the contracts.  Not a fan of too many back-ended contracts as it is easy to get into strife - see Collingwood circa 2020. 

So our sal cap will be tight for a few years to come. 

Not sue our 'lesser-lights' and older players whose contracts expire this year would be on big coin.

, means the next few years will be very tight as well. 

So I can see why negotiations with Oliver will take time (ditto with Salem).

Thanks for that Lucifer, 

What are ASA’S?

My take on our contract situation.

Re big coin, maybe not so much for Jones and Jetta but I think Hibberd this year and Melksham and TMac next year would free up some money. 
In 2022 we have 13 players coming off contract which looks like a lot but broken down, Petracca obviously is the big one then there’s players like Brayshaw and Fritsch then Jackson then it tapers right off. For the years 2023 - 2025 we have 10 players currently signed up for various lengths of time, Pickett and Rivers who wouldn’t be on much at the moment, Gawn and Lever who recently extended their contracts on what I can only assume would be less than their previous contracts (in which they would have cleaned up). May, Tomlinson (I hope we didn’t pay too much for him) Langdon and Brown would tie up a bit between them you would think, Viney and Harmes are the interesting ones, long deals but for how much?

The club would of been aware of these pending deals for Oliver and Petracca for some time, whilst things may be tight I believe the club has all their ducks in a row.
 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,464]

4 hours ago, Travis Boots said:

Inconsistent, poor kick, only contests centre square (his favoured position) if someone is injured and has struggled when being played on a wing etc. We cant afford to be carrying him into 2022 on 625-650k given these issues.

 

add to that we are going to need to find more cap space for Clarry (prob 150k more) and some for Salem and realistically the club would prefer to front load however much possible on Olivers contract to make it easier to accomodate Petraccas next contract the following year.

 

Where is this figure from? If that’s anywhere near close to the mark that’s a concern.

[In Harmes Way 7,826]

I wonder if we could pay him in bitcoin?

[Travis Boots 157]

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Where is this figure from? If that’s anywhere near close to the mark that’s a concern.

It was in The Australian (disclaimer: i would prefer a sewing needle through the eye of my [censored] than subscribe or buy that joke of a paper) Last June or July. Top 100 earners in the AFL. For some reason i was able to access it but now its behind the paywall for me again

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_MRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fafl-rich-100-who-are-the-afls-highestearning-stars-see-the-players-ranked-51100%2Fnews-story%2Fd6052138cb2be56ce41f2059386ef132&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

 

[Travis Boots 157]

2 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

I wonder if we could pay him in bitcoin?

I used to have 55 of those [censored]. Stupidly gambled them away at the crypto casino (bitmex) etc

[Ben Reyment 21]

I honestly dont think money is the driver here, he wants to have success

if we are looking good midway through, we should see some action, however if the wheels fall off, I can see him looking elsewhere

The positive  in this potential situation is he isnt going to North, Adelaide etc at the bottom, so if he decides to go elsewhere, we should be rightly compensated in a trade.

Obviously we need him at the club to win a flag, but the balls in his court to see we have a bright future

[Dr. Gonzo 24,368]

5 hours ago, Turner said:

anyone who is expecting anything other than this is wrong.

lets the player assess where the club goes and also sets themselves up for massive pay day based on other clubs offers we match or other offers they take. 

afl exchange podcast made a great point today that all clubs should look to backload all players contracts in their FA year in order for them to be RFA like gws did with corr who annually  across his career is clearly not in their top 10% of earners but he was last year in order for them to receive compensation on the chance he leaves. going off the 2021 contracts forum it appears we've done the same with hunt somehow which must mean he's earning peanuts this year coz if that man is getting any more than about 500k all up over these two years we better take a long hard look at ourselves

The opposite to that is when we front-loaded Frawley's contract which gave us no option to match as we found out it was based on the final year's salary, not the average salary over the length of the contract.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,368]

3 hours ago, daisycutter said:

but that's defeatist

our objective should be to lock him in long term and past fa

It's realistic, every single player manager will be telling their clients to only sign up until their FA. It doesn't mean he's going to leave at that point it just gives him better leverage to get more money.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,368]

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Thanks for that Lucifer, 

What are ASA’S?

My take on our contract situation.

Re big coin, maybe not so much for Jones and Jetta but I think Hibberd this year and Melksham and TMac next year would free up some money. 
In 2022 we have 13 players coming off contract which looks like a lot but broken down, Petracca obviously is the big one then there’s players like Brayshaw and Fritsch then Jackson then it tapers right off. For the years 2023 - 2025 we have 10 players currently signed up for various lengths of time, Pickett and Rivers who wouldn’t be on much at the moment, Gawn and Lever who recently extended their contracts on what I can only assume would be less than their previous contracts (in which they would have cleaned up). May, Tomlinson (I hope we didn’t pay too much for him) Langdon and Brown would tie up a bit between them you would think, Viney and Harmes are the interesting ones, long deals but for how much?

The club would of been aware of these pending deals for Oliver and Petracca for some time, whilst things may be tight I believe the club has all their ducks in a row.
 

ASA's are Additional Services Agreements I think, the old 3rd party deals. These now come under the cap as a separate item.

[Fanatique Demon 2,660]

10 hours ago, Turner said:

anyone who is expecting anything other than this is wrong.

lets the player assess where the club goes and also sets themselves up for massive pay day based on other clubs offers we match or other offers they take. 

afl exchange podcast made a great point today that all clubs should look to backload all players contracts in their FA year in order for them to be RFA like gws did with corr who annually  across his career is clearly not in their top 10% of earners but he was last year in order for them to receive compensation on the chance he leaves. going off the 2021 contracts forum it appears we've done the same with hunt somehow which must mean he's earning peanuts this year coz if that man is getting any more than about 500k all up over these two years we better take a long hard look at ourselves

Huh?