POSTGAME: Practice Match vs Bulldogs

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

42 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I didn’t see the game but this has been an issue since 2019 so concerning to hear.

Especially as we have the best ruckman of the past decade.

Is any ruckman worth the cudos of being a 'key component' in today's game i wonder CB?  Especially at the bounce / ball ups?

No doubting Max is one of the best going around but he hasn't 'consistently' connected with our mids or visa versa  since 2018.  Emphasis on consistently.  They have their days of course where we look like we could beat anyone.

However, other mids seem to be reading him a bit too easy of late.  He also often gets the hit out but hits to no one in particular!?  Neutral outcome / no man's land if you like.  Alternatively a bit too often into the bread basket of the opp.  I realise that's going to happen from time to time as luck, bounce and so many variables come into the game.  Not a perfect or easy science by a long way.

Personally, while i still believe a good ruckmen is handy, i would swap the best of them for a classy Bont/Pendles type in the middle every day, even if it meant giving up a few more hit outs.

Ruck position at bounces a tad over rated by some in today's game style imo.  You could almost put any tall in there as long as he can neutralise the contest most of the time.  It's more what they do at ground level and around the ground now.  Maxy certainly gets much of this aspect right as far as a ruckman goes anyway and not too much wrong in this regard.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

52 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Didn't help their cause... AVB, Harmes, Hunt, Spargo & Baker.

Absolutely. I thought Harmes was just a pass, the rest were really ordinary.

I’ve been a big fan of AVB but he is well past his best now and will struggle to get a game this year.

[DeeSpencer 25,677]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

Is any ruckman worth the cudos of being a 'key component' in today's game i wonder CB?  Especially at the bounce / ball ups?

No doubting Max is one of the best going around but he hasn't 'consistently' connected with our mids or visa versa  since 2018.  Emphasis on consistently.  They have their days of course where we look like we could beat anyone.

Nic Nat is the only ruck in the comp who can do damage at the ball ups. As good as Max is he doesn't trust his knees to run and jump at the ball and hit in multiple directions. More often than not he's just doing a dance with the opponent and out reaching or out timing them.

Jackson has the leap to win some dominant hit outs but not the Nic Nat level leap and hang time. So whilst it's good to fire him up every now and then to try to land one of a moving mids chest it's not a sustainable plan.

Unless they axe the center circle and go back to bouncing it properly on hard cricket wicket style surfaces the tap ruck component of the game is gawn for anyone bar Nic Nat.

[defuture15 898]

4 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Is any ruckman worth the cudos of being a 'key component' in today's game i wonder CB?  Especially at the bounce / ball ups?

No doubting Max is one of the best going around but he hasn't 'consistently' connected with our mids or visa versa  since 2018.  Emphasis on consistently.  They have their days of course where we look like we could beat anyone.

However, other mids seem to be reading him a bit too easy of late.  He also often gets the hit out but hits to no one in particular!?  Neutral outcome / no man's land if you like.  Alternatively a bit too often into the bread basket of the opp.  I realise that's going to happen from time to time as luck, bounce and so many variables come into the game.  Not a perfect or easy science by a long way.

Personally, while i still believe a good ruckmen is handy, i would swap the best of them for a classy Bont/Pendles type in the middle every day, even if it meant giving up a few more hit outs.

Ruck position at bounces a tad over rated by some in today's game style imo.  You could almost put any tall in there as long as he can neutralise the contest most of the time.  It's more what they do at ground level and around the ground now.  Maxy certainly gets much of this aspect right as far as a ruckman goes anyway and not too much wrong in this regard.

I think that Max drifting forward is a great move. We will have to see how Jacko goes in the centre. Perhaps McDonald could be the break even ruck? Max looks more likely to mark and kick goals. 

[waynewussell 5,725]

I think we have to be honest, we did not look like a top 8 team... and I have been watching the other pre-season games. Freemantle looked a lot better than us. I see a real struggle until we get Brown, Viney and the likes of Hibberd, Melksham & Weiderman back

 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,237]

I missed the first quarter and was in and out (metaphorically speaking ) for the remainder of the game. Stand out for me was Bont. [censored] me , he killed us. 

As a result, I slipped a bit of hard earned on him at $11.00 for the Charlie.

[Demondan75 188]

And after standing our ground over our round 1 fixture staying at the G, I'm tipping 16-18k crowd at best after today.

[Pates 9,660]

Haven’t watched any of the game and I recognise we were without Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw (three of our main clearance players). But this line from the match report is frustrating reading. 

Melbourne captain Max Gawn registered 32 hitouts compared to the Dogs' split of 23 between Stefan Martinand Tim English, however the Demons had no answers for the Dogs' clearance smashing (48-24).

Are we ever going to find a way to actually use the dominance of the most consistent (and best) ruckman we’ve had since Jeff White?

It’s not the result we wanted but we did choose to go in with several main mids down. Reading Demonland the worries seem to be that the more things change the more they stay the same. We may have bolstered our coaching department with experience (particularly with skills development) but disposal and decision making is still an issue. 

Not to mention it also sounds like pressure on the opposition is still really poor. This was an area in particular I really hoped we’d improve because it really seems to be the difference between finals contenders and pretenders. 

A win would’ve been nice, you learn more from losses. Looks like there’s still plenty of learnings to be done ?.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Pates

[ding 5,126]

The result of this game has once again raised both of the most common emotions felt by MFC supporters.

Doom AND Gloom.

Yes, our kids didnt play well, but they mostly wont be in the round 1 team. Im happy to leave my wrists un-slashed for another month.

Unless we lose round 1 then its on.

[Gator 17,332]

Six of last year's top 10 in the Best & Fairest didn't play. 

I'm guessing they would have made a difference, along with a 60 goal proven forward.

[dieter 3,325]

15 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

I think we have to be honest, we did not look like a top 8 team... and I have been watching the other pre-season games. Freemantle looked a lot better than us. I see a real struggle until we get Brown, Viney and the likes of Hibberd, Melksham & Weiderman back

 

The players Melbourne fielded today was not its top team, let alone a top 8 team. I have learned that you don't want to be March to June heroes, you might just wanna become a Business end of the Season Team. Melbourne in the past have regularly looked good in Practice matches. I remember watching them play with the E Coli Wobblers at the Training facility Oval before 2019. WE looked a cool million dollars...

[olisik 4,060]

Was an indictment when our best player was face down in pain and not one MFC player went to check on him. Gotta love the culture

[sisso 2,580]

Not overly fussed by anything I saw today, I’ll wait til round one when we lose to Freo to royally crack the sads! Was nice to be back at the footy at least

[dazzledavey36 54,860]

There are a number of concerns going into round 1 and season as a whole.

In my opinion, nothing has changed with the game plan at all. We still look to bomb it into our forward 50 and hope for the best.

We were not only beaten around the ball but smashed on the outside once again. What did we do to rectify this in the off season? Nothing.. I watched Tom Phillips on the weekend rack up 30 disposals and provide great run along the wing. After missing our on Isaac Smith the arrogance in our coaching staff thinking that we had the players to cover that other wing position will now bite us in the [censored]. We had no plan B after we missed out on Smith and Tom Phillips was ripe for the taking. Baker will not make it as a wingman and as much as I like Jones game, to see him back playing on the wing was just a perplexing. 

Our player development and depth is also another concern. Baker, Spargo, Sparrow,  Harmes, Vandenberg and Jordon were all simply poor. Sparrow and Harmes especially had the perfect opportunity to really make a statement today and they let themselves down with poor disposal and poor efforts. I actually have no idea what's Sparrows strength are at all. 9 disposals today playing as a midfielder is simply [censored] poor. VandenBerg just 5 disposal and looked as slow as a turtle. We are absolutely screwed if we lose Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw to long term injuries. Jordon showed exactly why I was gobsmacked that he was taken high in his draft year.

The game is now built on speed and gut running and when you carry plodders like Tmac, Jetta, Vanders, Tomlinson, Jones all in the one side then you'll get exposed like we did. WB just looked so much fitter and I was getting increasingly frustrated that they continued to out number us around the ball and run with such speed. 

Neville Jetta is finished. The signs were there last year and he is sadly absolutely cooked. I will be shocked if he plays more then 5 games. Adds 0 offensive skill set to the team and just trails behind his opponent. Be a leader down at Casey and start transitioning him into an off field role.

Tom McDonald, he is a shambles. Was expecting a trimmer more agile Tmac but he looks just as worse as last year.. he had a 0 gamer on him who was able to nullify him in thr aerial contests.  Our forward line is in trouble. 

Vanders is cooked and will play majority at Casey.

Tomlinson is a very ordinary footballer. Chewing up our salary, and this is already looking a bust. Incredibly soft and always gets beaten one on one. Start getting games into Harrison Petty.

I think Luke Jackson will hopefully be a good player for us moving forward. But he really didn't  domuch. He's marking is not really a strength of his and I'm not sure if the forward role is going to to work for him. Watching Ben and Max King in their 2nd year of AFL football last year and they just demanded the footy and both are strong contested marks who have enormous work rate. He'll get there and actually like the idea of him rucking and giving Gawn good minutes up forward while BB and Weideman are out. Was jumping over English and thought that I'd love to give him a bit more added responsibility.  Think he'll thrive more on this.

Lever and May were clearly our two best by a long shot. I liked Chandlers game and thought ANB was also impressive with his midfield/forward role. Honestly was pleased to see him play well. 

Honestly,  there weren't much positives to come out of that game. We had key players out but so did the doggies. They will be a great team team to watch this year.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by dazzledavey36

[leave it to deever 17,511]

How about a few warm up games for umps.

Atrocious effort today. Absolute rubbish.

Hope its gets better than that.

[Reader 99]

14 minutes ago, dieter said:

The players Melbourne fielded today was not its top team, let alone a top 8 team. I have learned that you don't want to be March to June heroes, you might just wanna become a Business end of the Season Team. Melbourne in the past have regularly looked good in Practice matches. I remember watching them play with the E Coli Wobblers at the Training facility Oval before 2019. WE looked a cool million dollars...

Add a champion/AA Oliver plus Kozzie whom I saw buzzing around in the midfield for Casey and he was terrific will make a huge difference 

Angus as well

Plus Salem and we are much better 

Not sure Baker is good enough, thoughts?

 

[Biffen 12,941]

33 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I missed the first quarter and was in and out (metaphorically speaking ) for the remainder of the game. Stand out for me was Bont. [censored] me , he killed us. 

As a result, I slipped a bit of hard earned on him at $11.00 for the Charlie.

I thought you worked for the Education dept.

Which one of those 40 weeks a year were you made to "work hard" in?

[Jaded No More 68,899]

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

Without our best contested midfielders, we were dominated in the clearances and contested footy. 

That's pretty much the tale of the game right there. Alex Neal-Bullen was our leading clearance winner, and he was essentially playing as a defensive half forward. At one point our centre bounce setup was Jackson, AVB, ANB and Sparrow. 

It's pretty hard to judge how went, TBH, because we were beaten around the ball by so much. Not ideal but not particularly concerning. 

Completely agree. Hard to judge with such poor centre clearance set ups due to missing players. It was a shambles. We couldn’t get near it and the Dogs are an exceptionally good team at getting and using the ball, especially on the smaller faster ground of Marvel. 

What disappointed me most was the poor showing of TMac even when he played on a kid, and the overall poor showing of most of the younger players except Jackson and Bowie. Rivers was ok too. 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,237]

8 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I thought you worked for the Education dept.

Which one of those 40 weeks a year were you made to "work hard" in?

I reject your cynical criticism entirely Biffen

One who has made his fortune from the misfortune of others should not comment on we honest souls who have laboured for the betterment of others.

PS. As usual your facts are incorrect, I don't recall ever working 40 weeks in a year.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bitter but optimistic

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

There are a number of concerns going into round 1 and season as a whole.

In my opinion, nothing has changed with the game plan at all. We still look to bomb it into our forward 50 and hope for the best.

We were not only beaten around the ball but smashed on the outside once again. What did we do to rectify this in the off season? Nothing.. I watched Tom Phillips on the weekend rack up 30 disposals and provide great run along the wing. After missing our on Isaac Smith the arrogance in our coaching staff thinking that we had the players to cover that other wing position will now bite us in the [censored]. We had no plan B after we missed out on Smith and Tom Phillips was ripe for the taking. Baker will not make it as a wingman and as much as I like Jones game, to see him back playing on the wing was just a perplexing. 

Our player development and depth is also another concern. Baker, Spargo, Sparrow,  Harmes, Vandenberg and Jordon were all simply poor. Sparrow and Harnes especially had the perfect opportunity to really make a statement today and they let themselves down with poor disposal and poor efforts. I actually have no idea what's Sparrows strength are at all. 9 disposals today playing as a midfielder is simply [censored] poor. VandenBerg just 5 disposal and looked as slow as a turtle. We are absolutely screwed if we lose Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw to long term injuries. Jordon showed exactly why I was gobsmacked that he was taken high in his draft year.

The game is now built on speed and gut running and when you carry plodders like Tmac, Jetta, Vanders, Tomlinson, Jones all in the one side then you'll get exposed like we did. WB just looked so much fitter and I was getting increasingly frustrated that they co tinued to out number us around the ball and run with such speed. 

Neville Jetta is finished. The signs were there last year and he is sadly absolutely cooked. I will be shocked if he plays more then 5 games. Adds 0 offensive skill set to the team and just trails behind his opponent. Be a leader down at Casey and start transitioning him into an off field role.

Tom McDonald, he is a shambles. Was expecting a trimmer more agile Tmac but he looks just as worse as last year.. he had a 0 gamer on him who was able to nullify him in thr aerial contests.  Our forward line is in trouble. 

Vanders is cooked and will play majority at Casey.

Tomlinson is a very ordinary footballer. Chewing up our salary, and this is already looking a bust. Incredibly soft and always gets beaten one on one. Start getting games into Harrison Petty.

I think Luke Jackson will hopefully be a good player for us moving forward. But he really didn't  domuch. He's marking is not really a strength of his and I'm not sure if the forward role is going to to work for him. Watching Ben and Max King in their 2nd year of AFL football last year and they just demanded the footy and both are strong contested marks who have enormous work rate. He'll get there and actually like the idea of him rucking and giving Gawn good minutes up forward while BB and Weideman are out. Was jumping over English and thought that I'd love to give him a bit more added responsibility.  Think he'll thrive more on this.

Lever and May were clearly our two best by a long shot. I liked Chandlers game and thought ANB was also impressive with his midfield/forward role. Honestly was pleased to see him play well. 

Honestly,  there weren't much positives to come out of that game. We had key players out but so did the doggies. They will be a great team team to watch this year.

 

 

Good post, and it is a real worry that 1/8th of our list comprises of T mac, Jones, AVB, Tomlinson and Jetta.

If they were available for mid season trades we wouldn't get a nibble for any of them.

[Pates 9,660]

If we’re going into matches undermanned without our best SKILLED players, there has to be an attitude of ensuring we out-pressure the opposition. The dogs are one of the best at it, we need to become better. 

[WERRIDEE 5,471]

Enjoyable day even though results didn't go our way.

POSITIVES

Firstly the reserves Brayshaw getting plenty of the ball in the first half his ball use wasn't great but it's a start should be a certainty for round 1.

Pickett doesn't do enough but what he does is class another who should be a certainty for round 1.

Now the seniors May what a game our best player by a mile would have lost by 100 points if he wasn't there.

Lever continuing on his form against Richmond.

Neal-Bullen great first half died out in the second half

Jones the same as Neal-Bullen

 

NEGATIVES

Firstly the reserves Daw fit or not fit enough I don't think he is the answer.

Laurie looks too slow for mine and gets caught a lot not a great pick so far but he has plenty of time to improve.

Rosman wasted in the forward pocket should have been on the wing.

Now the seniors Harmes what's happened to him? Not half the player he was in 2018.

McDonald as bad as any game he played last year. He has a month to save his career.

Spargo he can train the house down all day all year he still is a poor player. Chandler is better than him already and he didn't even have a good game.

Jordon not up to it ATM some costly mistakes.

Not sure on Baker and Sparrow not doing enough but are a chance to play round 1 due to our lack of depth.

vandenBerg the more I see of him the less I am impressed playing for his career.

[picket fence 17,141]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

It’s sad to see Nev play these days. He has completely lost it

Chook, I was at the game and he tried, really tried valiently, but his closing pace and pace in general have gone. This is part and parcel of the modern game. I love Nev, heck of a bloke LOVES MFC, but at end of day, he is struggling unfortunately!

[The heart beats true 18,123]

1 hour ago, A F said:

If there was ever a clear sign that Oliver runs our midfield it was today. Take him out and we don't get first use. 

There were a lot of really ordinary performances. Outside of May and Lever, I'm not sure there was anyone to write home about.

That said, Chandler showed some good signs early, ANB tried hard, Jones was relatively clean except for that brain fade off the ground and Fritsch had 6 scoring shots again.

Our forwardline hasn't improved at all though, nor has our delivery to it. I know it's difficult because they would have planned for Weideman and Brown, but our forward entries are high, long and hopeful (like 2019-2020). McDonald and Jackson aren't natural forwards and aren't particularly good marks. I'd have Chandler in the forwardline with Kozzie though.

I liked that they've given Hunt a licence to run off half back, but I felt Hunt and Langdon delivered the ball inside too many times. Both of them are classic, high up and under kickers. Langdon probably had his worst game for the club too, which didn't help.

Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw walk into that team. I wouldn't have Sparrow near by best 22. What is it he offers this group? He doesn't break away from packs, he's not a good kick and he's not a great blanket player either. Jordon has a bit to work on too, if he's going to get a game consistently. 

It'll be interesting to see how we respond in Round 1. I know it's just one practice game, but I think we're in big trouble here.

Sparrow is going nowhere fast. He’s been given the opportunity and just doesn’t look up to it. I hope he can turn it around but he doesn’t have any X factor that makes him special. 

[BDA 22,743]

I’m not fussed about the result against a full strength bulldogs outfit. They’re a good side and will play finals. As usual they did a third quarter number on us.

Most of our senior players did alright, May Lever Maxy Trac Fritsch I’ve no worries about.

TMac on the wing won’t work. He is too slow and his disposal is too suspect. Play him forward or drop him.

I would have liked to see Harmes go to the Bont. I know we have systems and structures but why not shut down the oppo’s best player. I’m not sure Harmes has a role in the side if he’s not tagging.

Very iffy disposal from Langdon. I hope he sharpens up over the next 2 weeks.

The kids struggled so we’re going to have to be patient while Chocco works his magic.

Freo is the test. I watched them last night. We have nothing to fear there. Forward set-up will be key but I reckon we’ll need a strong contribution from Trac with some other midfielders hitting the scoreboard as well. Get the 4 points, build momentum before the saints at Marvel. BB back for Rd 3 to straighten us up. A fit and firing BB will make a big difference.

Go Dees