On 26/01/2021 at 02:46, Dr.D said:

understood the reasons? Watts was [censored]. don't bait me please

We get it. You never rated Watts. You’ve mentioned it once or twice previously.

  On 26/01/2021 at 02:54, don't make me angry said:

His injuries have shown how limited of a player he was and is, his strongest talent was his elite running ability, now that he's just an average runner he's got nothing else. 

that's stupid. Of course if you take a players main strength they are going to suffer. It's like saying Dusty Martin is no good now because he had a knee injury and can't kick. (hypothetically)

Scully ???? So what. He was never a good footy player but the worst thing about him is he grew up in the same suburb as me.?

  On 26/01/2021 at 02:45, don't make me angry said:

The thing that people forget or don't know, is that Smith told RDB to go, because Smith was still the coach and was not going to handover to RDB.

Not exactly.

Smith at the time said he offered to step aside for Ron. RDB for his part was persuaded (by Carlton) that if he remained at Melbourne while Smith was there as, say, chairman of selectors, anything he achieved as a coach would be seen as Smith's achievement also.

Ron had also seen Smith have a falling out with his COS, Checker Hughes and did not want to risk the same with Smith.

In the end, after RDB decided to leave Smith backed his decision, telling the board to let him go.

(As a kid I like you thought Smith was happy for Ron to go as it secured Smith's position, but I did some digging and discovered that I was wrong.)

The debate about the value of pick 1...it is still a bit of a raffle.

This is ' @Macca' pet subject.

The value of the draft.

Every recruiter in the land would have taken Scully.

It's not only the pick and development but also luck with injury.

Not wishing him any bad luck in the future but Rowell looked great then goes down...will he come back as good, will injury dog his career. Who knows?

...best not to have all your eggs in the one basket.

  On 26/01/2021 at 02:45, don't make me angry said:

The thing that people forget or don't know, is that Smith told RDB to go, because Smith was still the coach and was not going to handover to RDB.

Actually it stated in the Red Fox, Smith offered to stand aside and let RDB to take over.  RDB refused because he didn't want the impression of Smith standing behind him and being seen in being a factor in RDB success, as what happened to Smith with Checker Hughes. 

Like Smith who went and coached elsewhere first its the bets policy, go to another club establish your own culture and values and then return.  Our problem is that we didn't get him back earlier to modernise the club, while we still had a playing group with a culture of success. 

Thankfully, he'll end his career as a very ordinary pick one.  Imagine if he became an AA quality gun and you had to watch him run around every week ?

Good riddance.

  On 26/01/2021 at 03:50, Dr.D said:

that's stupid. Of course if you take a players main strength they are going to suffer. It's like saying Dusty Martin is no good now because he had a knee injury and can't kick. (hypothetically)

Not really what makes a great player is how they overcome great injuries, Judd played with bad shoulders his whole career, jack Riewoldt played with a degenerative knee condition for most of his career,  David Schwartz  had 3 knees, he was never the same, but was able to be a very good footballer,  great players have more strings to their bow.

  On 26/01/2021 at 04:06, rjay said:

The debate about the value of pick 1...it is still a bit of a raffle.

This is ' @Macca' pet subject.

The value of the draft.

Every recruiter in the land would have taken Scully.

It's not only the pick and development but also luck with injury.

Not wishing him any bad luck in the future but Rowell looked great then goes down...will he come back as good, will injury dog his career. Who knows?

...best not to have all your eggs in the one basket.

Primarily drafting as a way of building a premiership list can work but there again, often it doesn't if that's the only way a club decides to build a list (primarily drafting only)

From our clubs perspective, in recent times we've swapped a number of top end picks for proven talent (May,  Lever,  Tyson (?) Clark (?)) but have used draft picks outside the first round for other experienced players (Melksham,  Hibberd,  Tomlinson,  Ben Brown,  Frost,  Langdon)

Again,  putting aside that disastrous period* where we drafted one failed pick after another,  we've drafted with much better results more recently (Viney (pick 26 F/S?),  Petracca,  Brayshaw,  Oliver,  '"Scully for Hogan for May",  Salem,  Harmes (Rookie 2015) & Fritsch)

And we await with bated breath on LJ,  Kozzie,  Weideman,  Rivers,  Rosman,  Bowrie,  Laurie & others

So it's a mixed bag** and we are definitely on the improve but remain a work in progress

Top 4?  Ridgy didge?  Not yet.  Not sustained anyway.  The forward line needs to fire consistently rjay

Bottom line,  recruiting should entail many aspects - Free Agents,  Drafting,  Traded in Proven Talent and various other top ups (the odd DFA,  Academy players (?) Rookie identification etc etc)

 

 

*Not that I was advocating it at the time but if we had have swapped all those failed draft picks for proven talent (prior to when Roos arrived),  we wouldn't have bottomed out the way we did - isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!

 

**I've left a few players out no doubt

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by Macca

  On 26/01/2021 at 04:59, don't make me angry said:

Not really what makes a great player is how they overcome great injuries, Judd played with bad shoulders his whole career, jack Riewoldt played with a degenerative knee condition for most of his career,  David Schwartz  had 3 knees, he was never the same, but was able to be a very good footballer,  great players have more strings to their bow.

you can't compare players injuries. some players have more debilitating injuries than others. I mean, even the great Michael Voss wasn't half the player after his knee issues. Matthew Egan would've been one of the all time greats but because of his foot issue he had to retire. Nathan Brown never returned to his best after his leg break.  Not to mention all of the players who never got the chance to show their worth due to injury like Jesse w. Smith, Luke Molan, Morabito etc. 

 

  On 26/01/2021 at 02:37, Fork 'em said:

I think Sheedy is more to blame than Scully.
After being snubbed for our vacant coaching position he went after vengance willing to pay any price for it (With GWS salary cap).
Scully made a smart business decision taking their extraordinary offer.
Gift horses like that don't come along every-day.
His only crime was not being straight up with Stynes.
But he was a kid in a high pressure/scrutiny environment.
Mistakes get made.

I was watching a Dees game in a Sydney pub the year after Scully moved to the Giants. Got into a conversation with someone who walked in halfway through the game, after several minutes of discussing the Dees they revealed they were a family member of Tom’s. I made some fence sitting comment along the lines of “it wouldn’t of been as easy decision to make blah blah blah” and was told that Tom didn’t didn’t appreciate Stynes calling him in for a chat and pushing heavily the fact that he had cancer and was dying. They thought it could of been handled differently whilst still delivering the same message. 

  On 26/01/2021 at 05:35, Dr.D said:

you can't compare players injuries. some players have more debilitating injuries than others. I mean, even the great Michael Voss wasn't half the player after his knee issues. Matthew Egan would've been one of the all time greats but because of his foot issue he had to retire. Nathan Brown never returned to his best after his leg break.  Not to mention all of the players who never got the chance to show their worth due to injury like Jesse w. Smith, Luke Molan, Morabito etc. 

 

Thats my point!! Scully was no superstar before his injure, what 1 top 5 in the  B&f when GWS where near the bottom, he was not a young player before his injure he already played over 140 games, he has  never been in the top 5 of the Brownlow, he has only ever been a ordinary good footballer, he has never been an all Australian. What do you think he was a superstar before his injure 

  On 26/01/2021 at 06:35, Bombay Airconditioning said:

 they revealed they were a family member of Tom’s. I made some fence sitting comment along the lines of “it wouldn’t of been as easy decision to make blah blah blah” and was told that Tom didn’t didn’t appreciate Stynes calling him in for a chat and pushing heavily the fact that he had cancer and was dying. They thought it could of been handled differently whilst still delivering the same message. 

This is exactly how I had always thought I would react, hearing about this unfortunate meeting. Stynesy wasnt backward in coming forward about his personal health. I dont like Scully but always thought this would have mattered more than a drunken young ruckman spewing. But to be sure, $1M a year wins hands down.

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by Damo

$cully was a very good athlete, and an average/reasnoable Footballer.

Should never have been pushed as the Number 1 Draft Pick (not his fault)

Has there been a worse 1-2 Selection?

What a mess it was...Cheers to Rod in Cambodia (Money Bags)

 

Like everyone, had high hopes. One of the best athletes to ever play. While I never thought he was a terrible kick he just never hit targets consistently enough. I'm kind of always surprised when this happens with a no.1 pick I'm still naive enough to think the sport is called football and that the best kid in the draft mostly likely can kick well but not always the case. 

This will sound silly but I'm just going to say it, I'm kind of relieved that players from that era like Watts and Scully are finishing. It feels like a long long period of side show stories and I'm looking forward to making new and better ones. 

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by layzie

  On 26/01/2021 at 07:41, Sir Why You Little said:

$cully was a very good athlete, and an average/reasnoable Footballer.

Should never have been pushed as the Number 1 Draft Pick (not his fault)

Has there been a worse 1-2 Selection?

What a mess it was...Cheers to Rod in Cambodia (Money Bags)

 

I remember being in the company of some officials of another Club. They were raving about Scully but couldnt say what his attributes were beyond a show in for No 1 pick. it was dicussed in terms of universal agreement and I have never followed that path. 

I have been a Scully detractor over time but on reflection, at the time of his defection he was a wet behind the ears 19 year old under the influence of an avaricious father in a dysfunctional Club. I hated the way he went about it but, at the end of the day, his leaving didn’t really hurt so time to let it go and wish him no ill will.

While I was annoyed with how Scully and his father went about it at the time I have very little ill will towards the bloke in retrospect. He was a 19yo kid thrown into something he was not ready for and that blame rests on the shoulders of Sheedy and co. I don’t have any issue with him taking the GWS deal, I just wish he’d been a little more up front about it.

With whatever is happening in his personal life now, I hope he gets through it ok. 

  On 26/01/2021 at 09:38, Pates said:

While I was annoyed with how Scully and his father went about it at the time I have very little ill will towards the bloke in retrospect. He was a 19yo kid thrown into something he was not ready for and that blame rests on the shoulders of Sheedy and co. I don’t have any issue with him taking the GWS deal, I just wish he’d been a little more up front about it.

With whatever is happening in his personal life now, I hope he gets through it ok. 

Pretty sure I read a while ago with an interview with Scully that if he had his time over again he would have done things a lot different. So at least he has acknowledged it.

I too have no ill feeling towards him and truly wish him and his family good health.

 

  On 26/01/2021 at 07:41, Sir Why You Little said:

$cully was a very good athlete, and an average/reasnoable Footballer.

Should never have been pushed as the Number 1 Draft Pick (not his fault)

Has there been a worse 1-2 Selection?

What a mess it was...Cheers to Rod in Cambodia (Money Bags)

 

With injuries, sadly no. But then just to add salt to the wounds there has probably never been a better number 3 either. As good as Judd was, I think Martin is incomparable. 

  On 26/01/2021 at 06:35, Bombay Airconditioning said:

 I made some fence sitting comment along the lines of “it wouldn’t of been as easy decision to make blah blah blah” and was told that Tom didn’t didn’t appreciate Stynes calling him in for a chat and pushing heavily the fact that he had cancer and was dying. They thought it could of been handled differently whilst still delivering the same message. 

I find that hard to believe TBH.
I've got cancer and am dieing .... Now I need to know what you're going to do.

Anyone posting unsubstantiated rumours will be immediately banned. No exceptions. 

  On 26/01/2021 at 09:00, Half forward flank said:

I remember being in the company of some officials of another Club. They were raving about Scully but couldnt say what his attributes were beyond a show in for No 1 pick. it was dicussed in terms of universal agreement and I have never followed that path. 

I remember the talk well, but I could never understand the hype after seeing him play. He was worthy of playing AFL level, but he was never the number 1 kid in the land. I took an interest in him earlier than usual, because my Uncle was an Old Hailebury boy, so he was talking him up.

Just strange times, the MFC was all over the place

  On 26/01/2021 at 11:23, Sir Why You Little said:

I remember the talk well, but I could never understand the hype after seeing him play. He was worthy of playing AFL level, but he was never the number 1 kid in the land. I took an interest in him earlier than usual, because my Uncle was an Old Hailebury boy, so he was talking him up.

Just strange times, the MFC was all over the place

Scully was a ball magnet in the TAC with questions on his disposal.
Martin has turn out to be a gun, Fyfe and Gawn as well who both went much later.
The rest of that years selections against Scully are debateable.

  On 26/01/2021 at 11:31, Fork 'em said:

Scully was a ball magnet in the TAC with questions on his disposal.
Martin has turn out to be a gun, Fyfe and Gawn as well who both went much later.
The rest of that years selections against Scully are debateable.

I know all that. A Ball magnet who is not a good kick is not the best player of Football in the land. 
the recruiters and media completely misread the room. 
it just so happened we had the first 2 picks and the 3rd Player is now one of the Greatest of all time. 
 

just so MFC