I'll chip in if we go deep into the finals in the next 2 years!

Must improve the list now

13 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

He’d be a good get but 3 years for a 32 year old is madness particularly one who relies on speed. 2 years max with perhaps a sweetner about a coaching position.

That’s the deal.
 

Two years plus an option of a third year if ... 

Example - Must play at least 15 games each year over the 2021 and 2022 years to get 2023.   Smith has to back himself 

 

Surely even Mahoney's not dumb enough to give a 32yo a 3 year contract (though nothing's beyond him given KK's crwzy deal). His numbers were significantly down last year, and he's not going to get any quicker. 

 

3 years for a bloke already starting to go down hill? Pass

I love the idea. Get him in.

30 minutes ago, TheoX said:

Surely even Mahoney's not dumb enough to give a 32yo a 3 year contract (though nothing's beyond him given KK's crwzy deal). His numbers were significantly down last year, and he's not going to get any quicker. 

Down, yes. 

Significantly, no.

The numbers are here (averages in 2020 vs 2019): https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=11&playerStatus2=A&tid2=11&type=A&pid1=3464&pid2=3464&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2019

Once you factor in a 20% reduction in game time, many of the stats that look a far way apart (e.g. disposals, inside 50s, UPs) are actually not that far apart. Although one stat that stands out is metres gained, which fell of a bit even despite the 20% shorter game time.

Part of this will also be explained by Hawthorn being bad across the board. Harder to get involved on a wing when you can't win a clearance and can't stop your opponents scoring.

Yep some of these Hawthorn players would be smarter than the average. You would think that Yze is playing a helping role here as well...

3 years?  Would want to be on low coin with clauses.  No guarantee he is coaching material, so who knows if he adds anything there.  Is even in the Dorks leadership group?

Would rather a 25 yo, otherwise develop Baker for the role.

Spend our money elsewhere.  He is a FA, so would cost us nothing in picks

2 years would have for sure.. 3 years is a but much but depends what the 3rd year is? But i think we need to have a crack.. sure as hell hasn't worked so far and when we got a specialist winger in Langdon it worked.. imagine having 2.

A winger does not necessarily have to be lightning quick, they have to be able to work hard and get to teh right spots. Smith will do that. 

1-year contract and I'd be interested.

I'd much rather have Isaac Smith hobbling around than persist with ANB, AVB, Melksham, McDonald x2, Wagner x2, Joel Smith etc.

He's from a better environment and a better player, he is from a culture where winning is the expectation not just turning up

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

3 years for a bloke already starting to go down hill? Pass

Why is he going downhill? He got injured this year 

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

3 years?  Would want to be on low coin with clauses.  No guarantee he is coaching material, so who knows if he adds anything there.  Is even in the Dorks leadership group?

Would rather a 25 yo, otherwise develop Baker for the role.

Spend our money elsewhere.  He is a FA, so would cost us nothing in picks

Problem is, adequate 25 year olds playing that position at other clubs are going to come at a big cost, or aren't going to come at all as they are playing for teams in with a chance for a flag.

I do like what Baker brings, and can't help but feel that him learning from Smith over the next 2 seasons would be great development.  Baker will get opportunities throughout 2021/2022 to secure his spot, and if he can do so, then that's a positive for the team.

fwiw i have no problem offering smith 3 if it means he joins us

he started late in footy - debuted as a 21 year old? - so doesn't have the wear and tear of a kid who has been playing professionally since he was 18

he's not lost his pace, and his injuries - of the very few he's had - have not been soft tissue but instead collision concerns, like his shoulder this year

would be be in our starting 18? 100%

he costs us nothing other than salary cap too as he's an unrestricted free agent which means if he signs with us he simply walks out on hawthorn...and it's always nice to see players walking out on hawthorn

the fact that they've offered him two years straight up shows that they still really rate him too

On 10/9/2020 at 5:52 PM, JimmyGadson said:

 

No, if we'd handled our recruitment and list development better, it'd be a win. But we didn't.

I was banging on about how we'd be going nowhere with Oscar as our number 1 key defender well before we brought in Lever let alone May. I was howled down constantly by the same supporters who think every Melbourne player will magically make the grade one day. And those including @binmanwho refuse to see glaringly obvious weaknesses in a players game.

Why it's taken this long for the club to realise Oscar in not the answer is one of the great mysteries of life itself.

I suggested numerous times over that period that there were cheap options who could fill the key defender role for us and provide us with far more stability than what Frost and Oscar were providing. Collins for example, who has since made his way to Gold Coast for chips was one player I suggested we target before loading up on May. 

Goodwin has no [censored] idea. He has no idea how to develop a system that enables individuals to play to their strengths. Lever is the perfect example. How on earth was he expected to play the way did at Adelaide when he had Frost and Oscar as support? We waited far too long to recruit a big bodied defender. Yeh, we have an amazing one now, but look at every else that needs addressing?

We waited until last year to get a quality small pressure forward in Pickett. Why? Butler was there a year earlier.

We play Brayshaw on a wing for three years. Dom Tyson. Nathan Jones. Alex Neal Bullen kicks around on a forward flank year after year doing diddly squat. 

It's enough.

The difference between me and many supporters on here is that I now have little patience with the club and it's handlings of these types of things. I understand that may differ from you as you are one of the happy-go-luckies who isn't too fussed either way, as long as we're 'trying'. 

There's something wrong with the club. Look at Brisbane for [censored] sake. 

They're now miles ahead of us due to smart and considered decisions across all lines of their club, year upon year since Fagen took over. 

We are supposed to be ahead of these sides. People need to wake up.

Goodwin has made a mess and has one off-season to fix it.

You're under selling the challenges involved in recruiting - picking footballers isn't like picking fruit.

You get one chance per year to recruit the type of player you want. Usually, there between 0-5 of those players available (most likely one or two worthwhile choices).

On top of that, 17 other teams are in the market for those players.

It's ridiculous to assume that because we didn't get a certain player in a trade period, we don't want that certain player.

Also, you're blaming the head coach for decisions that, in all likelihood, he has only minimal input.

2 years with a trigger for a 3rd on minor money. And there are some complaining about it. Yep, let's keep going with ANB and Vanders on the wing instead.

Plenty of spuds to chop to cater for a medium risk high reward punt on Smith. We need another winger desperately. Punting on Smith is a risk worth taking. We have many inside type players who are relatively slow and won’t be sufficient midfield time to justify their position on our list. As well as that, even if we drop some of these players back to the forward line, they aren’t doing enough in there to even warrant selection. I’m talking about guys like ANB, and to a lesser extent Brayshaw. Even Vanders. I don’t think these players are as necessary as getting a true winger. We really do need to start balancing our list out. In hindsight, recruiting Tomlinson now just compounds on a weakness for us. So we will need to ship out some one dimensional type players and recruit guys like Smith, who will balance our team out and improve it in key areas of need.

On 10/7/2020 at 7:10 PM, Turner said:

i think we have to be aiming younger we're not gaining anything by recruiting players to leave in 2 years just yet.id rather see a larger chunk from baker than sign a 32yo. polec and tom phillips (who im starting to like more and more as mihoeck news comes through) are better options and will be around for longer. unless theres someone we see available next year we need a stop gap for a season to get there then i'd be willing but surely you get someone now

For years we've had wing issues

Stretch, JKH, Cwagner, hunt, tomlinson, jones, brayshaw, bennell, off the top of my head, its time we settle it down

I totally get this perspective - it makes sense.  However, you need to have multiple options, particularly when one is unproven. 

It's certainly a possibility that the addition of Smith could enhance Baker's game rather than stunt his growth.

6 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

I totally get this perspective - it makes sense.  However, you need to have multiple options, particularly when one is unproven. 

It's certainly a possibility that the addition of Smith could enhance Baker's game rather than stunt his growth.

yeah i see that, but if polec, smith and phillips are available all for a 3rd rounder who r u taking?

Smith is 33 before next season starts and we want to give him two years, pace and length of kick is the first thing you lose as u get older, just ask jonesy.

I let list managers concern themselves with the terms.  As a supporter I've never worried about how long someone gets, but obviously others do.  I just want a better team.  Smith on an opposite wing to Langdon makes us better.  That's all I care about.  He's got the Kade Simpson type of frame and he played till he was 36.

We could win a flag next year (some might think it's impossible but I don't) and a guy like Smith would be of benefit in that quest.

And unlike others, I don't rate Baker at all.  Yes, he kicked a couple of good goals, but in general his skills are nothing more than ordinary and he's on the soft side.  He won't be a regular in any best 22 moving forward.

31 minutes ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

I let list managers concern themselves with the terms.  As a supporter I've never worried about how long someone gets, but obviously others do.  I just want a better team.  Smith on an opposite wing to Langdon makes us better.  That's all I care about.  He's got the Kade Simpson type of frame and he played till he was 36.

We could win a flag next year (some might think it's impossible but I don't) and a guy like Smith would be of benefit in that quest.

And unlike others, I don't rate Baker at all.  Yes, he kicked a couple of good goals, but in general his skills are nothing more than ordinary and he's on the soft side.  He won't be a regular in any best 22 moving forward.

I reckon we're a genuine shot at the top 4 next year, particularly with the assistants and players we're looking at bringing in.

It's time to step up. Smith, Polec, Brown and one or two others will immediately make us better. I'm happy enough with what I'm hearing behind the scenes.

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Why is he going downhill? He got injured this year 

He definitely isn’t as quick as he used to be and he is a serial offender at holding the ball up and it’s speed of movement.

Chook in Perth last year mentioned that we baulked at a three year deal for Smith. If we are seriously considering it this year then it has an air of desperation around it. Surely it will be 2 + set kpi's for a third. And if we're looking at 32 year olds, why not look at Higgins?

11 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Chook in Perth last year mentioned that we baulked at a three year deal for Smith. If we are seriously considering it this year then it has an air of desperation around it. Surely it will be 2 + set kpi's for a third. And if we're looking at 32 year olds, why not look at Higgins?

Higgins is committed to Geelong isn't he?

3 minutes ago, A F said:

Higgins is committed to Geelong isn't he?

Nothing official as far as I'm aware but they seem the likely destination. From a players perspective Geelong would be more appealing for a shot at a premiership and that's probably what he's after at his age. Still, if Goodwin is desperate and looking for missing pieces to roll the dice on a potential premiership in 2021 then Higgin in the forward half in place of ANB or Hannan must be enticing.