2 minutes ago, jako13 said:

So you play the kids consistently and get done for stunting their development and no game bing them time in the 2s to grow and learn etc.

And then get done for stunting their development when you actually do the above.... ?

Grow and learn mumbo jumbo? The guy was clearly in the best 22. This is not a jack watts playing too soon scenario. This is a guy who was clearly starting 22 and had runs in the board. Does anyone even know what these mystery things were that he needed to work on? lol. I haven't heard 1 person know why he wasn't getting a game. Or what Weideman is doing now that he wasn't doing in 2018. 

Supporters just get overly protective of criticism. Blind Freddy could see that Weideman should be in the 22 of a team that was the 17th best to start the year. 

Sack Goodwin and we'll be better for it. 2 easy wins changes nothing. 4th to 17th to most likely not playing finals. Not good enough.

I take Plough's analysis and critiques seriously, however this seems a bit hyperbolic. It would have been great to develop Sam perfectly with all things allowing for it but the reality is at the end of the day the FD makes selections and decisions based around winning football games. We can base our selection purely around the development of one KPP and always play 2 forwards but fear the wrath of fans when we aren't kicking scores or god forbid he loses a bit of form and starts getting torn to shreds. Criticism aimed at our FD this year has mostly been warranted but not this time.

And even though Petracca is playing super well now, How come it's taken 6 years to get his tank ready for the midfield? I'm sorry but it doesn't take 6 years to get someone fit. Petracca was never a forward but he was played there  for 4 years too long. 

It's stuff like this that loses my confidence in the club to get things right

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

I take Plough's analysis and critiques seriously, however this seems a bit hyperbolic. It would have been great to develop Sam perfectly with all things allowing for it but the reality is at the end of the day the FD makes selections and decisions based around winning football games. We can base our selection purely around the development of one KPP and always play 2 forwards but fear the wrath of fans when we aren't kicking scores or god forbid he loses a bit of form and starts getting torn to shreds. Criticism aimed at our FD this year has mostly been warranted but not this time.

I've never seen Weideman in bad form. Quiet games isn't bad form. That's delivery. He should never have been dropped since 2018. It's a joke. 

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

And even though Petracca is playing super well now, How come it's taken 6 years to get his tank ready for the midfield? I'm sorry but it doesn't take 6 years to get someone fit. Petracca was never a forward but he was played there  for 4 years too long. 

It's stuff like this that loses my confidence in the club to get things right

Rubbish!  And what has Petracca got to do with this thread. 

 

At the risk of diverting this thread I want to put the record straight for Petracca and the claim it has taken 6 years.  It hasn't! 

• Year 1 - 2015.  Out injured with ACL
• Year 2 - 2016.  Out injured (toe) and debuted in round 6.  Played mainly fwd.  Kicked 12.11
• Year 3 - 2017.  Had his first full pre-season.Played mainly fwd.  Kicked 22.6
• Year 4 - 2018.  Played mainly fwd.  Had poor goal kicking 19.23
• Year 5 - 2019  Played fwd and mid.  Leading club goal kicker 22.14.  Came 5th in BnF.
• Year 6 - 2020  A stellar year. 

Many DL's have mercilessly criticised him prior to this year but the results show 2017 and 2019 were good years.  2020 is no surprise to those who have been paying attention.

Progressive improvement over 80 games in 3 - 4 years (2016 to 2019) to reach 'elite' level is outstanding.  Still relatively inexperienced in AFL terms. 

There is no need to to refer back to his first 2 or 3 years.  I get the feeling you just don't like him.   

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Marking key forwards, who are not that good on the ground, only deserve AFL games if they clunk marks and then kick straight. While Weideman has shown great promise and I was pushing for his selection early in the season, he has been given plenty of opportunities in previous years to cement his spot in the side.

Perhaps rather than stunting Weideman's growth, the way he has been managed has spurred him on to get it right?

I think it is a bit rich coming from Wallace who's club made many do a long apprenticeship in the magoos before selection.

I think we would have destroyed him if he played as a Key Forward in our 2019 season, no big forward stood a chance with the way we delivered our ball inside our 50m arc.

He was up and about in the back half of 2018, Tom was firing like our side, we moved the ball fast and kicked to the advantage of our forwards, he showed us what he can do when a team is on song.

Same as this year, he is getting rewarded for working hard, as long as our mids are on top he will get a crack at playing well, if we return to our bombing like to an out number he will struggle.

Would love for him to just clunk a few more marks, he is getting good purchase on the footy that is the next step, if they stick and he backs his set shot routine he is capable of kicking bags, would love to see a 7 goal bag this week.

What a crock. I'm sure if the lions had Hogan and T Mac kicking 50 goals each, Hipwood wouldn't have gotten much for a game either

Hipwood has looked like he adapted to AFL level quicker as despite being skinny, he is very agile and a different player to Weed

He's here now enjoy him for the next 10 years, he has earnt his place now.

Hipwood had no competition in his first few years as a lion they were a basketcase.

Weideman has had to serve his apprenticeship under Hogan and Tmac also gotten over injuries, he's better for it he's now the main man.

Just improve your set shot kicking Weed that's all, we love you.

Weideman fits our forward line better than Hipwood. Jackson could be our Hipwood...could be anything. 

Terry might be half right. We probably could have played Sam more but who cares. He has arrived and looks great. I loved some of his marks he has taken on the lead. Our delivery has become better and he is a smart footballer who reads it so well. He works hard and is fast becoming a favourite.

A natural footballer!

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

The mistake wasn't dropping him when he didn't perform, the mistake was not giving him a set role up forward to grow into. We swung him round in the ruck where he played all over the ground and could never settle. Young players need consistency in what they're being asked to do, or they'll never develop properly. Now that he's being played at FF exclusively we are seeing immediate results. Yet another player whose development we got wrong, but he's not lost like others thankfully.

Play him at FF in future and we get 40-60 goals out of him. Done. 

What if the stint training/playing in the ruck taught him to be more physically competitive, and taught him how to use his body while attacking the ball in the area? It could be the reason he has started taking those marks instead of dropping them when nudged.

22 minutes ago, deanox said:

What if the stint training/playing in the ruck taught him to be more physically competitive, and taught him how to use his body while attacking the ball in the area? It could be the reason he has started taking those marks instead of dropping them when nudged.

He was actually averaging more marks and more contested marks in both 2018 and 2019 than he is this year. In terms of stats, goals is the only thing he's improved on this year. Everything else has gone backwards, though understandable as he's not up around the ball as much playing FF now. 

Just goes to show he was already capable in years gone by, he just wasn't given a consistent role up forward to play to his strengths and the teams strengths. He was clunking more marks the past two years. We stuffed up his development, but thankfully have corrected the trajectory now. 

mmmm this article tells a very different story

 

https://www.thefootycorner.com/2020/08/12/how-sam-weideman-has-become-melbournes-go-to-man-since-his-return-to-the-team/

 

but you know, opinions are like anuses... everyone has one. 

just every now and again, unlike your anus, you should inspect your opinion.

 

*love the filter taking anatomically correct language.

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Weideman fits our forward line better than Hipwood. Jackson could be our Hipwood...could be anything. 

Terry might be half right. We probably could have played Sam more but who cares. He has arrived and looks great. I loved some of his marks he has taken on the lead. Our delivery has become better and he is a smart footballer who reads it so well. He works hard and is fast becoming a favourite.

A natural footballer!

I hope not.  I don't rate Hipwood much at all.  I hope Jackson becomes five times the player he is.

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I hope not.  I don't rate Hipwood much at all.  I hope Jackson becomes five times the player he is.

Hipwood soft as butter, just a tall forward flanker.

Deleted (wrong thread). 

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Grow and learn mumbo jumbo? The guy was clearly in the best 22. This is not a jack watts playing too soon scenario. This is a guy who was clearly starting 22 and had runs in the board. Does anyone even know what these mystery things were that he needed to work on? lol. I haven't heard 1 person know why he wasn't getting a game. Or what Weideman is doing now that he wasn't doing in 2018. 

Supporters just get overly protective of criticism. Blind Freddy could see that Weideman should be in the 22 of a team that was the 17th best to start the year. 

Sack Goodwin and we'll be better for it. 2 easy wins changes nothing. 4th to 17th to most likely not playing finals. Not good enough.

I agree with a lot of what you have said in this thread, but one point i will make is that the past few games have shown what MIGHT have been one of the issues he was asked to work on.

His REPEATED lead and double-back efforts are miles better than they were before he was dropped. I have been super impressed by how hard the kid is presenting, and he has actually hit a few packs since his return. Seemed a bit reluctant to smack into bodies before he was demoted but that looks to have improved noticeably.

Now i could be wrong and that might not be one of the things he was told to improve, but he absolutely has been a different prospect  since his return to the team.

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I hope not.  I don't rate Hipwood much at all.  I hope Jackson becomes five times the player he is.

If Jackson doesnt become 5 times better than Hipwood i will eat my MAGA cap.

Bottom line, we haven't stifled his development at all. He was poor last year in too many games to claim a regular place in the side albeit due to getting injured. Fully understandable why he was made to earn his place in the side. Now he's showing the form we all hoped he would but he wasn't before.

We will find out about Weid and Goodwin in the next 2-3 weeks

We play better sides and the stakes are higher

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Grow and learn mumbo jumbo? The guy was clearly in the best 22. This is not a jack watts playing too soon scenario. This is a guy who was clearly starting 22 and had runs in the board. Does anyone even know what these mystery things were that he needed to work on? lol. I haven't heard 1 person know why he wasn't getting a game. Or what Weideman is doing now that he wasn't doing in 2018. 

Supporters just get overly protective of criticism. Blind Freddy could see that Weideman should be in the 22 of a team that was the 17th best to start the year. 

Sack Goodwin and we'll be better for it. 2 easy wins changes nothing. 4th to 17th to most likely not playing finals. Not good enough.

I Honestly think you’re just taking the [censored] and that you don’t believe half the crap you’re saying.

Sacking coaches prematurely? When has that ever worked? That would just send us straight back to the bottom and ruin the culture of the club (see Dean Bailey). It’s well documented that Goodwin has strong relationships with the playing group so I reckon we’d benefit from giving him time this season  to get the team setup correct.

It’s also been documented that weideman has struggled in contested marking at the start of the season and it’s evidently the reason he wasn’t playing until a month ago.

If we [censored] the bed later on in the season then of course we should question whether Goodwin should go but facts are facts and coaches aren’t getting sacked and payed out during this whacky season.

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by nacnud

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

I've never seen Weideman in bad form. Quiet games isn't bad form. That's delivery. He should never have been dropped since 2018. It's a joke. 

He had the goal-kicking yips for a while and looked very sad about it. Maybe they needed to go gently with him and not break his spirit completely.

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by My name is legion

Usually I think most on this Board over react to external criticism but as LH has pointed out Wallace is off the mark save for 2020.

The time for Weid to play in unpressured games and develop was post bye 2019 but he was injured. His Casey form was usually middling at best. Lacked the fast lead and constantly pushed under the ball.

Fix these two things and we have a long term FF

And there you go.

For every doubter......

*fingers crossed