“I just don’t think the players have played as well as what they could have, and there’s maybe some selfish guys through the midfield.

“People have been commenting on that a fair bit, like they find a lot of the footy but are they working for each other?”

Bernie Vince Says That Melbourne’s Players Are A Bigger Issue Than Simon Goodwin

 

  On 05/08/2020 at 04:25, Lord Nev said:

“I just don’t think the players have played as well as what they could have, and there’s maybe some selfish guys through the midfield.

“People have been commenting on that a fair bit, like they find a lot of the footy but are they working for each other?”

Bernie Vince Says That Melbourne’s Players Are A Bigger Issue Than Simon Goodwin

 

I've been saying this for a while.

...but good to hear Bernie agrees.

It's probably our biggest issue.

...and the coach needs to fix it.

Our midfield play as individuals.

Watch last nights game and you see 2 top teams where the mids work for each other.

Forget the idea of one paced, all the same etc...we're not.

We just don't help each other and it's a big reason why the disposal is garbage.

Sure we have some out and out clangers but then we have too many rushed kicks/handballs as well because the players don't play for each other.

  On 05/08/2020 at 04:32, rjay said:

I've been saying this for a while.

...but good to hear Bernie agrees.

It's probably our biggest issue.

...and the coach needs to fix it.

Our midfield play as individuals.

Watch last nights game and you see 2 top teams where the mids work for each other.

Forget the idea of one paced, all the same etc...we're not.

We just don't help each other and it's a big reason why the disposal is garbage.

Sure we have some out and out clangers but then we have too many rushed kicks/handballs as well because the players don't play for each other.

Totally agree

But it is up to The Coach and his Assistants and The Captain to fix it up

It's probably our biggest issue.

...and the coach needs to fix it.

 

As you say    it is a problem, but the Coach steers the lot, he needs to fix the game plan, and any games within it or the playing group.

 

a bit worried about Adelaide......

Its not only the midfield.  TMac and Melksham seem more concerned on kicking the goals themselves than team play, even tho they are low probability shots.

At the risk of releasing a great hue and cry against me:  our ex-captains have been culprits for their whole careers.  And that rubs off on the new arrivals setting off a new cycle of selfish play. 

The coach needs to find a circuit breaker once and for all.

As an aside it sounds a bit like Bernie has gone in to bat for his mate.

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 05/08/2020 at 04:32, rjay said:

I've been saying this for a while.

...but good to hear Bernie agrees.

It's probably our biggest issue.

...and the coach needs to fix it.

Our midfield play as individuals.

Watch last nights game and you see 2 top teams where the mids work for each other.

Forget the idea of one paced, all the same etc...we're not.

We just don't help each other and it's a big reason why the disposal is garbage.

Sure we have some out and out clangers but then we have too many rushed kicks/handballs as well because the players don't play for each other.

Problem with the thinking if it is the players who are out of congruence - Goodwin and his FD let it happen. Assured selections, no form no matter team regulation, game plan impossible so players had to make up for it when in possession of the ball. etc, etc.

I think, maybe, we're getting to the roots of the problem. Is it Brayshaw? He appears to me to think he doesn't have to try. And maybe, with coach's reluctance to drop him, it's a matter of relationships. Can anyone close to the club tell me, without giving away too much, how Gus gets along with Goodwin, and the group more widely? I did read somewhere else on Demonland that Hogan, Watts and Brayshaw are similar personalities... illustrative??? 

  On 05/08/2020 at 04:52, Lucifer's Hero said:

At the risk of releasing a great hue and cry against me:  our ex-captains have been culprits for their whole careers.  And that rubs off on the new arrivals setting off a new cycle of selfish play. 

I'm a firm believer in the leadership being a huge part of the problem.

Jones and Viney definitely looked after themselves first. I don't think Gawny can steer the ship, he is too nice.

The best teams have on field leadership that is also coaching as they go, they also have club wide belief in what they are doing. I reckon May and Lever are trying their butt off to work towards what Goody wants, just don't believe the other 16 are

 

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by BW511

  On 05/08/2020 at 04:52, Lucifer's Hero said:

As an aside it sounds a bit like Bernie has gone in to bat for his mate.

Here's a conspiracy theory, maybe his mate 'Goody' has asked him to stir the pot...

  On 05/08/2020 at 05:25, rjay said:

Here's a conspiracy theory, maybe his mate 'Goody' has asked him to stir the pot...

LOL.  I thought that but wasn't brave enough to be so direct!  Bravo, rjay!

  On 05/08/2020 at 05:12, BW511 said:

I'm a firm believer in the leadership being a huge part of the problem.

Jones and Viney definitely looked after themselves first. I don't think Gawny can steer the ship, he is too nice.

The best teams have on field leadership that is also coaching as they go, they also have club wide belief in what they are doing. I reckon May and Lever are trying their butt off to work towards what Goody wants, just don't believe the other 16 are

 

Agree on most of what you've said. Particularly the may and lever bit.

I think Gawn is fantastic and inspirational and consistent, but there are little things in his game that still have him putting himself first. The example that springs to mind is the amount he goes back and kicks at the moment when there have been other - better kicks - running past. He's improved that area of his game, don't get me wrong, but he is kicking way to much for a giant - he needs to get his hands off quicker after the contested grabs.

 

 Good.  The more pressure the better.     Either we respond or we fall apart. 

  On 05/08/2020 at 05:25, rjay said:

Here's a conspiracy theory, maybe his mate 'Goody' has asked him to stir the pot...

Goodwin's been in the ear of a lot of 'ex-players' recently if that's the case.

A head coach's KPIs are ultimately weighted more to team performance holistically so to say "it's a player problem not a coach problem" is in and of itself implicating the coach. 

I'm still convinced the game style that we want to play, even when implemented correctly is unsustainable over 22 games.

Underperforming/selfish players is still a coaching issue. Nice try, Goody and Bernie. 

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

  On 05/08/2020 at 06:01, A F said:

I'm still convinced the game style that we want to play, even when implemented correctly is unsustainable over 22 games.

The evidence throughout his tenure is it's unsustainable after a month.

  On 05/08/2020 at 05:25, rjay said:

Here's a conspiracy theory, maybe his mate 'Goody' has asked him to stir the pot...

 

  On 05/08/2020 at 05:31, Lucifer's Hero said:

LOL.  I thought that but wasn't brave enough to be so direct!  Bravo, rjay!

Wouldn't think so, he doesn't need any help to stand up for himself.

So four days earlier Bernie is claiming that Bartlett was out of line and now he is having a go at the same players who he didn't like the president having a go at?

Don't disagree with him but just seems a stupid point to be making now after his previous stance.

  On 05/08/2020 at 06:06, Watts the matter said:

So four days earlier Bernie is claiming that Bartlett was out of line and now he is having a go at the same players who he didn't like the president having a go at?

Don't disagree with him but just seems a stupid point to be making now after his previous stance.

Nailed it - Bernie doesn't come across as the smartest tool in the shed.  Clearly there are issues but I wouldn't be looking to Bernie to be able to identify them.

  On 05/08/2020 at 06:06, John Demonic said:

The evidence throughout his tenure is it's unsustainable after a month.

Yep. And now we allegedly have top fitness, so the only possible deflection that could be made is onto the players.

Now, don't get me wrong, the players were horrendous the other night, but the coaching has seen a yo-yoing of certain players, systems and structures from week to week.

Just this year:

First it was the forward set up. Completely illogical selections that were proved to be wrong.

Then it was the backline set up and personnel. 

Last year:

The mids were clearly told to bomb long from stoppages. Get it in quick, without any sort of system other than bring forward pressure, but without the required personnel to play the system. Where were the essential crumbers in this set up? This has lead to a decline in Oliver's disposal and the overall midfield's quality of disposal IMO.

An inability to get bang for buck from stoppage and Gawn's dominance (see 2020 as well).

I'd place far greater emphasis on coaching flaws TBH.

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that everyone starts sharing the ball around that much more that we make more mistakes and consequently turning it over more than usual........

i like bernie, but he should stick to partying

Anyway you look at it we are a [censored] shambles atm !

We must win well tonight, then clean up North and then ... take a big scalp!

I know it’s a strange season but unless we recover big time, our club is in deep [censored]

I'm curious as to what is being defined as 'selfish' here. Not saying Bernie or other posters on here are wrong but as a midfielder its often hard to tell these things perhaps.

Taking on the opposition to try and break through tackles and getting caught instead of handballing could be seen as selfish. But the best midfielders are also asked to break the lines and try to get free to gain forward momentum. Or is it even a Clarry example of selfishness when he simply handballs to a man under pressure or blindly kicks to gain a possession?