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Is anyone else concerned that the preseason is starting soon and we still haven't employed a full time forwardline/ offensive co-ordinator coach? 

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Just the job for Jordan Lewis. 

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If between all of the coaches we have on board cannot deliver a forwards program and have one of them responsible for delivering it whilst Goodwin is absolutely accountable for ensuring it works, then we are stuffed.
It can’t be that hard outside of being to complicated or having forwards who aren’t up to it. 

Delivery from upfield is the key. If we have another season of high balls bombed in aimlessly I will be very disappointed. 

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There was mention of one more coaching hire a while ago. 

Goody - head coach

Richo - mentor, senior assistant, head of coaching 

Egan - development

Rooke - development?

Chaplin - backline 

Plapp - mids

Matthews - stoppages

Will they move to just 1 midfield coach and have Plapp take the forwards? Or go with Rooke again but give him some more talent to work with?

Does seem strange to not have it assembled and announced ready for the main group sessions. 

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We don't need one. If May and Lever stand up, our backline is set. We've got our wings sorted. We win contested footy like no other. The ball will be in our forward line all day. Even Weiderman should  look good.

 

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I'm all for a genuine experienced forward coach, one who has played and/or coached forwards at AFL level.  Not one of our coaches has.

Our forward line was like Brown's cows this year and it wasn't just the delivery to them.  It was so bad it was the major line coach change in the mid year re-structure with Rawlings replacing Rooke.  Chaplin and Plapp stayed in their line coach positions. 

I can't see how we can not have a genuine forward coach, especially as nearly all our forwards are inexperienced or converted defenders.  We have defenders coaching converted defenders to be forwards.  This year we saw the results. 

Lewis is a kicking and development coach but will mainly work with the team in the pre-season due to media comittments during the playing season.  And his remit isn't related directly to forwards.

We haven't added to our forward talent in the off-season so our opportunity for improvement is (better delivery) and better forward craft and tactics.  So, who will bring the latter as we have tried Chaplin and Rooke as forward coaches in recent years.  Both have been moved to other roles.  I vaguely recall Mahoney saying Rooke was being put back into the position he was originally hired for: development.   They are not the answer.

Just don't see how anyone can expect a more effective and efficient forward line with no key player changes without a dedicated coach.  Gosh, at this stage I would even settle for a part-timer!

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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2 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

We don't need one. If May and Lever stand up, our backline is set. We've got our wings sorted. We win contested footy like no other. The ball will be in our forward line all day. Even Weiderman should  look good.

 

Dont agree completely.  Last season we had more inside 50s many times and got beaten by 6 goals.

The fowards seemed shambolic. Although the entries often were rubbish.

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1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm all for a genuine experienced forward coach, one who has played and/or coached forwards at AFL level.  Not one of our coaches has.

Our forward line was like Brown's cows this year and it wasn't just the delivery to them.  It was so bad it was the major line coach change in the mid year re-structure with Rawlings replacing Rooke.  Chaplin and Plapp stayed in their line coach positions. 

I can't see how we can not have a genuine forward coach, especially as nearly all our forwards are inexperienced or converted defenders.  We have defenders coaching converted defenders to be forwards.  This year we saw the results. 

Lewis is a kicking and development coach but will mainly work with the team in the pre-season due to media comittments during the playing season.  And his remit isn't related directly to forwards.

We haven't added to our forward talent in the off-season so our opportunity for improvement is (better delivery) and better forward craft and tactics.  So, who will bring the latter as we have tried Chaplin and Rooke as forward coaches in recent years.  Both have been moved to other roles.  I vaguely recall Mahoney saying Rooke was being put back into the position he was originally hired for: development.   They are not the answer.

Just don't see how anyone can expect a more effective and efficient forward line with no key player changes without a dedicated coach.  Gosh, at this stage I would even settle for a part-timer!

I believe the members forum is this tuesday, hopefully someone on Dland who is attending could ask them about this.

I know in the NFL that the players have team meetings, offense and defense meetings and position meetings. Does anyone know if there are meetings like this in the AFL or are there only team meetings? If its only team meetings, having Richardson or goody look after the forwards at quarter time and running them through a couple of drill during training should be sufficient.

 

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2 minutes ago, trac5665 said:

I believe the members forum is this tuesday, hopefully someone on Dland who is attending could ask them about this.

I know in the NFL that the players have team meetings, offense and defense meetings and position meetings. Does anyone know if there are meetings like this in the AFL or are there only team meetings? If its only team meetings, having Richardson or goody look after the forwards at quarter time and running them through a couple of drill during training should be sufficient.

 

Yes this happens in the AFL, all clubs do it.

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12 hours ago, trac5665 said:

I believe the members forum is this tuesday, hopefully someone on Dland who is attending could ask them about this.

I know in the NFL that the players have team meetings, offense and defense meetings and position meetings. Does anyone know if there are meetings like this in the AFL or are there only team meetings? If its only team meetings, having Richardson or goody look after the forwards at quarter time and running them through a couple of drill during training should be sufficient.

This Tuesday?  Haven't seen any media release or member email about it.  Just checked club website and couldn't find anything.  Are they hoping no-one attends:rolleyes:  Do you have any details?  I might start a thread and find out a bit more.

 

Our lack of forward cohesion and effectiveness in so many ways not related to form or delivery was stark in 2019.  To me it looked like a lack of forward strategy, tactics and player skills.  If we don't have a good forward line strategy and tactics, opp defenders will cut right thru it as they did in 2019.  Surely, the forward line deserves its own coach just as much as the defence and midfield, particularly as it is our real weakness.  imv a chat at 'quarter time and a couple of drills during training' is a winning formula.

I just don't see how Goodwin with the typically onus role as senior coach or Richardson (who effectively replaces Macca and to some extent Jennings) have the time to develop strategies/ tactics and not only teach them but to ingrain them into all forwards; the best 22 and first line depth.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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11 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

This Tuesday?  Haven't seen any media release or member email about it.  Just checked club website and couldn't find anything.  Are they hoping no-one attends:rolleyes:  Do you have any details?  I might start a thread and find out a bit more.

 

Our lack of forward cohesion and effectiveness in so many ways not related to form or delivery was stark in 2019.  To me it looked like a lack of forward strategy, tactics and player skills.  If we don't have a good forward line strategy and tactics, opp defenders will cut right thru it as they did in 2019.  Surely, the forward line deserves its own coach just as much as the defence and midfield, particularly as it is our real weakness.  imv a chat at 'quarter time and a couple of drills during training' is a winning formula.

I just don't see how Goodwin with the typically onus role as senior coach or Richardson (who effectively replaces Macca and to some extent Jennings) have the time to develop strategies/ tactics and not only teach them but to ingrain them into all forwards; the best 22 and first line depth.

It is talked about in Pert and Bartlett's letter to members on 12th September, can't get a link right now sorry.

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19 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I just don't see how Goodwin with the typically onus role as senior coach or Richardson (who effectively replaces Macca and to some extent Jennings) have the time to develop strategies/ tactics and not only teach them but to ingrain them into all forwards; the best 22 and first line depth.

Not only that, as you mentioned earlier, none of them have experience up forward other than Rooke who's been tried and moved on from that role previously.   Doesn't exactly infuse one with comfidence that he's up to it if he returned to the role.

Having said that, iirc i thought i saw a pic of Rooke with some players recently in the media or off a website (might have been here) chatting to a number of players who may have been a group of forwards but at the time i didn't take much notice of it.

Regardless it is a concern after what happened this year (albeit injuries and compromised pre-season for many played a part) when there's been no new injection to the forward stocks in the trade period.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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On 11/17/2019 at 6:55 PM, Demon17 said:

Dont agree completely.  Last season we had more inside 50s many times and got beaten by 6 goals.

The fowards seemed shambolic. Although the entries often were rubbish.

Whether it is a 'forward coach' or just an attacking strategy I don't know, but our absolutely horrible conversion rate from a very high number of inside 50s is in desperate need of attention.

Simon Badloss certainly needs help here  - as some have suggested, would this be a rare and genuine opportunity for Garry Lyon to contribute to his club, after his disastrous forarys into coaching appointments?

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At about 4.10 in Goodwin's speech "............we need to come up with a forward structure that enables it to thrive..........."

Praise the Lord.

Our forward structure has been diabolical. Basically talls get yourselves so far up the ground you eliminate yourselves as marking targets. The mids & half forwards, flood our forward line so we have no space to work in.

Yes our delivery has been terrible - there's no excusing that. But the problem has been exacerbated by a dysfunctional forward structure. An issue that's not just confined to 2019

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8 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

At about 4.10 in Goodwin's speech "............we need to come up with a forward structure that enables it to thrive..........."

Praise the Lord.

Our forward structure has been diabolical. Basically talls get yourselves so far up the ground you eliminate yourselves as marking targets. The mids & half forwards, flood our forward line so we have no space to work in.

Yes our delivery has been terrible - there's no excusing that. But the problem has been exacerbated by a dysfunctional forward structure. An issue that's not just confined to 2019

Not sure I entirely agree, I think we came up with a ball movement and forward plan that peaked in about 2017 or even maybe 2016 where we chopped teams up through the corridor and then got the ball deep over zone backlines. 

It even worked late in 2018 against some good teams and in finals. 

But teams started to copy the way Collingwood, West Coast and to an extent Richmond (with Rance/Grimes) would leave their backlines deep. So we were just bombing it in to out numbered situations. 

We didn't have outside runners so we couldn't stretch the game with width. We didn't have quick speed on the back flanks with Hibberd declining or playing deeper, Lewis etc so we weren't counter attacking as quickly as the days of Hibberd or Hunt. And our inside mids weren't fit either so we weren't exactly getting that overlap and run through the corridor that powered us at our best.

I've got a fair bit of confidence that Fritsch, Melksham and T Mc can structure a decent forward line and the coaches certainly have to improve but it's not all awful. 

The other big factor is we were great at Docklands because we were great at training bombing it deep to numbers in good positions, then we'd fall apart at the MCG. Training at Casey was a big part to why our forward line mostly looked decent enough in the 2nd half of the season - especially given the personnel was a long way from our best.

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7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not sure I entirely agree, I think we came up with a ball movement and forward plan that peaked in about 2017 or even maybe 2016 where we chopped teams up through the corridor and then got the ball deep over zone backlines. 

It even worked late in 2018 against some good teams and in finals. 

But teams started to copy the way Collingwood, West Coast and to an extent Richmond (with Rance/Grimes) would leave their backlines deep. So we were just bombing it in to out numbered situations. 

We didn't have outside runners so we couldn't stretch the game with width. We didn't have quick speed on the back flanks with Hibberd declining or playing deeper, Lewis etc so we weren't counter attacking as quickly as the days of Hibberd or Hunt. And our inside mids weren't fit either so we weren't exactly getting that overlap and run through the corridor that powered us at our best.

I've got a fair bit of confidence that Fritsch, Melksham and T Mc can structure a decent forward line and the coaches certainly have to improve but it's not all awful. 

The other big factor is we were great at Docklands because we were great at training bombing it deep to numbers in good positions, then we'd fall apart at the MCG. Training at Casey was a big part to why our forward line mostly looked decent enough in the 2nd half of the season - especially given the personnel was a long way from our best.

Aside from Hannan who really only came on a little in 2018 we have always lacked outside run and carry out wide DS.  It took about two years and a horrible year in that time to finally wake up to the fact it seems.  That lack of vision is a real worry given that some scribes/coaches and even rank amatures like myself, could see the obvious flaw at the bigger grounds (ie; our home ground) against most opposition, other than similarly sluggish ones.

We are slow learners but at least the glaring obvious is finally starting to be recognised and addressed.   Better late than never as they say.

Edited by Rusty Nails

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Even though our forward line was a rabble last year, I reckon the thing that hurt us most early on was T Mac’s inexplicable loss of confidence and form.

Even though our forward 50 entries were generally poor, there were enough in each game for us to be more competitive on the scoreboard than we were. 

T Mac was clunking everything in 2018 - it was ridiculous. And within one pre-season, he turned into a player who couldn’t get near it.

This really hurt us. Stating the obvious here, but we really need him to recapture his 2018 form (irrespective of who the forward line coach is).

 

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