Too Empathetic?

[Demonland 64,361]

Forget the muppet that is saying it but do you agree with BT here?

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

The real question is ... is Goodwin too empathetic? Did he strip paint off the walls and eviscerate a few egos in response to multiple players costing us the game in the forward 50? If not then we’ve got a real problem. I do worry and have worried from the start that our coach is too nice and buddy-buddy with the players. When things are on the up things are fine. But you need to keep a certain distance and be willing to burst bubbles. Not convinced he has yet shown the capacity to deliver this hard edge in his coaching.

[At the break of Gawn 3,473]

No way. Beating someone up after they know they've had a poor shot on goal just drives more fear and anxiety into the next time it happens. 

Gawn, Smith, Garlett also missed easy shots. 

Gawn's miss against Geelong in round 1 was considerably worse. It was closer in, dry ball. Just a shank kick. 

[Cam Schwab's Whiteboard 209]

Taylor, like many in the Boys Club that is AFL media, try their best to drag football back to the 80s and 90s comfort zone they long for. The game has moved past the 'harden up', Northey-to-Stynes approach into something much more individualised and productive. Many (most?) players simply do not respond to what Taylor is advocating, and that's why the ability to communicate is paramount for AFL coaches these days. Mind you, Taylor's inability to intelligently communicate has been on display for years, so no one should be surprised.

1.8 is a collective choke, and to blame a single shot on goal is not only erroneous, but potentially dangerous to the development of Wiedeman and his team mates.

[sue 8,402]

Sorry Demonland. I can't forget the muppet in those comments.  It just confirms in my mind that he is a muppet. (Not that any confirmation is needed.)

[Demonland 64,361]

Just now, sue said:

Sorry Demonland. I can't forget the muppet in those comments.  It just confirms in my mind that he is a muppet. (Not that any confirmation is needed.)

Absolutely agree the he is a muppet. I just didn't want the fact that he is a muppet be the response to the question. I don't happen to agree with him in this case but I thought it was a good discussion point.

[sue 8,402]

2 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Absolutely agree the he is a muppet. I just didn't want the fact that he is a muppet be the response to the question. I don't happen to agree with him in this case but I thought it was a good discussion point.

Understood.  But trying to be as un-prejudicial as I can be, if I knew nothing about the bloke, those comments would have tipped him into my muppet basket.   

Let's take it a step further - maybe some of the other players should have walked up to Sam and punched his head.  (After which several others would have had to stand in a circle and punch the player next to them.)

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

Sam had played a very good game so he has a lot to be proud of, especially for a first game back after injury and being dropped.  As a result his confidence would not have been top notch. 

He was shattered to miss that shot.  Leaving him emotionally stranded with the camera focused on him was far worse than being empathetic.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Diamond_Jim 11,670]

19 minutes ago, Cam Schwab's Whiteboard said:

Taylor, like many in the Boys Club that is AFL media, try their best to drag football back to the 80s and 90s comfort zone they long for. The game has moved past the 'harden up', Northey-to-Stynes approach into something much more individualised and productive. Many (most?) players simply do not respond to what Taylor is advocating, and that's why the ability to communicate is paramount for AFL coaches these days. Mind you, Taylor's inability to intelligently communicate has been on display for years, so no one should be surprised.

1.8 is a collective choke, and to blame a single shot on goal is not only erroneous, but potentially dangerous to the development of Wiedeman and his team mates.

Agree... the days of individual shaming etc are out but as you say I would like to think the coach is calmly discussing at least one on one why the shots were missed and how the chances can be improved. We have now played Darwin on a number of occasions and things such as wind, aiming spots, ball swing, power off the boot etc should be known by the players.

No use making mistakes unless you learn from them.. sounds trite... but it works.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Diamond_Jim

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,137]

Can’t take any people-management advice from a man who:

a) Refers to a player as a ‘poofta’ on air.

b) Refuses to alter his version of how a name is pronounced.

c) Can’t tell the difference between Sudanese players - even when one isn’t playing.

d) Routinely humiliates himself trying to communicate with players in the obscenely self-indulgent ‘Roaming Brian’.

 

[Engorged Onion 9,214]

31 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

No way. Beating someone up after they know they've had a poor shot on goal just drives more fear and anxiety into the next time it happens. 

Gawn, Smith, Garlett also missed easy shots. 

Gawn's miss against Geelong in round 1 was considerably worse. It was closer in, dry ball. Just a shank kick. 

Got it in one-  and if you want to get a bit neurosciencey -

The act of empathy (genuine care and connection from coach/players) reduces cortisol and adrenaline and helps the athlete focus more on task next time. Ie: kicking fluently through the ball, rather than stabbing/guiding the kick (which is what players do when they're feeling anxious)....which increases the liklihood of a miss, and compounds the anxiety for the next time etc etc etc

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

10 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Agree... the days of individual shaming etc are out but as you say I would like to think the coach is calmly discussing at least one on one why the shots were missed and how the chances can be improved. We have now played Darwin on a number of occasions and things such as wind, aiming spots, ball swing, power off the boot etc should be known by the players.

No use making mistakes unless you learn from them.. sounds trite... but it works.

Calm 100% of the time? Dear me. This is footy. Did you ever play? There will ALWAYS be a time and place in combative sport played between men for passion, inspiration, fire and brimstone. 

For calm leadership 100% of the time better seek out a desk job.

[Smokey 4,112]

Footy commentary sinks to new lows almost weekly. For commentators to dig the boot into a young man like this and on the other hand pretend to be concerned with players mental health is baffling. Go **** yourself BT you absolute moron. 

[The Stigga 879]

5 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

 

d) Routinely humiliates himself trying to communicate with players in the obscenely self-indulgent ‘Roaming Brian’.

 

Hey, Hey, Hey now, lets not say things we can't take back...

 

[DeeSpencer 23,050]

Too empathetic - nope I wouldn't say that.

But Sam, Max and all our players need to use this to get mentally stronger. They can't go back in their shells. 

I remember when Gawn was finding his way he stuffed up in the Saints game we lost narrowly with a dumb hit out from the centre bounce. The next week he exploded down at Geelong and announced himself as a star.

The Weid needs to respond with something similar. 

Roos was apparently quite good at having the players backs but knowing when to give them a rev up. Goodwin might have to do the same with Weideman. The Pies will try to get stuck in to him, he needs to be ready.

[Nasher 33,047]

Moronic comment from an oafish dinosaur with a 1980s amateur footy coach level understanding of what tearing strips off someone for making a mistake does for their psychology. 

How stupid does he think Sam Weideman is if he thinks he needs his teammates to remind him that missing that goal was a Bad Thing? And why is Weideman’s miss any worse than Smith’s or Garlett’s, or Wagner or Garlett dropping easy marks that should have produced a score? Even Max, who was outstanding, dropped a mark that was far easier than half the ones he plucked throughout the game.

The whole team blew it big time in the last quarter. Any player that wants to single out Weideman better do it while staring in to the effing mirror.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

23 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Moronic comment from an oafish dinosaur with a 1980s amateur footy coach level understanding of what tearing strips off someone for making a mistake does for their psychology. 

How stupid does he think Sam Weideman is if he thinks he needs his teammates to remind him that missing that goal was a Bad Thing? And why is Weideman’s miss any worse than Smith’s or Garlett’s, or Wagner or Garlett dropping easy marks that should have produced a score? Even Max, who was outstanding, dropped a mark that was far easier than half the ones he plucked throughout the game.

The whole team blew it big time in the last quarter. Any player that wants to single out Weideman better do it while staring in to the effing mirror.

That’s fine and I agree with you on BT but are you of the opinion Goodwin should under no circumstances tear paint of the walls in a general and if strategically required individually when a situation merits it? 

If our supporters feel that last quarter didn’t merit a hard-hitting response from Goodwin post-game, heaven help us. These professional footballers might be millennials but last time they checked I’m pretty sure they realised they’re also men.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Matsuo Basho

[Little Goffy 12,486]

Wow, I'm not sure how I can describe BT's comments there without overworking the censor filter.

Of all the poxy pathetic attitudes... the sheer stupidity that it takes to think that only the last shot on goal should be highlighted. And boy oh boy wowee didn't Weidemann look like he was relaxed and comfortable about it already.

Seriously, this is stimulus-response stuff, amoebic-level reaction, I expect better from homo sapiens, y'know. Even marginal ones like BT.

[Superunknown 3,307]

25 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

That’s fine and I agree with you on BT but are you of the opinion Goodwin should under no circumstances tear paint of the walls in a general and if strategically required individually when a situation merits it? 

If our supporters feel that last quarter didn’t merit a hard-hitting response from Goodwin post-game, heaven help us. These professional footballers might be millennials but last time they checked I’m pretty sure they realised they’re also men.

I don't think the fact they're men warrants mentioning unless you intend it from the perspective of boys, i.e. the ladies are plenty tough

I agree that sometimes someone needs some truths read to them but in this instance Sam is not the issue - the team is.

The question is how do they train for high pressure/stakes actual goals (as opposed to goal kicking training).

 

[DubDee 20,320]

BT thinks yelling at Sam after that would help the situation?? 

Anyone with a brain would know this will have no positive impact aside from making the coach feel better. I am glad Goody showed some maturity and supported Sam as did his skipper Jack

 

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

Dees missed shots

Typical Max: 

Gawn tried to cheer Weideman up with a joke in the moments after the game ended, but it didn’t go down too well.  "I did tell him, ‘Thanks for missing it’, because I was in a bit of pressure myself," he laughed.

Max showed good leadership and care for a young teammate contacting Sam the next day:

"I had a good chat to 'Weids' yesterday and we’re both feeling the same and it’s actually good for us to feel that we did cost the team because against Geelong last year [when Gawn missed a set shot to win the game] I used it as a driver for the next four or five weeks and played some really good footy.

And on a spray from Goodwin:

Gawn wanted to receive a spray from coach Simon Goodwin after their second-half capitulation, but it wasn’t forthcoming.

Everyone could see they worked their butts off all game.  Even in the last quarter - those missed shot opportunities weren't gifts they came from hard work. 

I don't doubt Goodwin can give players a decent spray when he has a mind to but he is smart enough to pick his moments and pick his targets.   Spare the rod, they say!

 

As an aside, empathetic coaches was discussed on FC last night.  They were very strong on coaches developing a style to suit gen X and showed how even hardened coaches like Longmire and Lyon have really softened up, especially now they have really young teams.  BT has little understanding of how clubs function these days and how to motivate players.  He likes to make himself the news! 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[chook fowler 18,159]

Love Maxs' response. It is what makes him a leader and a great clubman. When he gets angry watch out. Grundy will have his hands full on monday.

[Deemania since 56 6,118]

3 hours ago, Smokey said:

Footy commentary sinks to new lows almost weekly. For commentators to dig the boot into a young man like this and on the other hand pretend to be concerned with players mental health is baffling. Go **** yourself BT you absolute moron. 

Always remember the first time I saw BT on the footy field (MCG), and it proved that he was a moron. A sixty-metre charge at his full pace caught Rod Grinter in the back (as Rod was looking the other way and subtly moving to position himself into defence). Crunch! Less than two seconds later, BT was sprawling on the ground from the impact and as he held Rod in a headlock, had just completed a perfect parabola in the air before landing when Rod bent at the waist- never tried that again, with Rod. Absolute dumb-bum move to charge unsighted into Rod with injurious intent. He was off the ground in minutes after hitting the rock of Gibraltar.

[DV8 2,271]

Yes.  I agree with him wholeheartedly.

A little empathy could have been shared a bit later on,  in the dressing rooms...  I have no problem showing outward sympathy or empathy, and warmth, to friends, or those in need.

 

But regarding the Mfc...  we need to exhibit some sterner stuff.  To change the nature of our club.  As this club is overly-endowed with  'softer emotions'  as a politically correct imagery. 

To learn to be more hardened competitors, we really need to lose some of this compulsive outward softness.  As it interferes with us being combative,  and having a  'take-no-prisoners' sort of attitude,  ON-Field.

 

So Yes our boys become men more slowly,  generally,  at Melbourne...  because we lavish the softer emotions too readily on those within our club... spoiling our kids,  instead of hardening them for the battles ahead.

 

There is plenty of life ahead,  after their footy careers...  to become all Warm and Cuddly.

 

 # Stop softening the Demons.!

.

[daisycutter 28,427]

Wow, a whole thread on brian taylor........what has demonland become?.... neanderthals like bt are best just ignored